Tipping in the USA
 

Thank you to those who who have responded to my earlier posting.

It would appear that I have hit a nerve. My request for information was not an attack on the USA or it's customs. Yes, I did say that I find the concept of tipping obnoxious but I did not say that I find the USA obnoxious.

Yes, a person can tip in Australia and no, the concept is not new. It is not new in Australia and not new to me. Having said that, if a person in Australia feels that a tip would be nice, then they tip. There is no sliding scale or percentage mandated or suggested that I'm aware of. Yes, I have tipped and when I do, it is because I want to and not because I am told that I should or that it is expected. If tipping is part of a culture or expected because employers and Governments can't get their act together, why should I, as a tourist be made to feel some obligation to bolster an underpaid persons pay packet. The relationship between a taxi driver and a passenger is not employer-employee nor should it be. Same applies between eater and waiter or hotel guest and any number of hotel employees. The cost of staying in a hotel is quite high all by itself, so why is there an expectation that more should be paid to every man and his dog that works at the hotel? Again, as a guest, I should not be expected to take on the roll of employer or even have to think about it. If the US system is so broken that it shifts the responsibility of who pays a decent wage / salary to it's employees from the employer to a tourist, then clearly it is a bad system and should be fixed. No politics intended.

In conclusion, when I tip, it is because I think someone did something special or outstanding, not out of obligation or fear. If the food is good, the bill should be for the food and nothing more. If the waiter does something more than just bring food to the table, then I may give him or her a tip. If a person makes up my hotel room bed and or turns the bed down, it is their job and what I am already paying for. I pay the hotel for my stay, not each individual who works there. I do not believe that anyone other than the employer should be made to feel any financial obligation or responsibility to an employee of any work place.

I hope I have cleared up any misgivings about where I am coming from and I don't mean Australia.

I would still like to know peoples views on consequences.

Thank you again

Oscar1

Hello, anybody out there?

Why did you start a new thread? It would have been much better to tack this on to your original post . . . . .

meant to add - you don't win friends ordering folks to go look for another thread if they want to see the rest of your thoughts . . . . .

Janisj

As mentioned, this is the first time I have ever used the internet in this way. I have never used a forum or MSN or anything other than email. I must seem pretty thick to regular users. Can you suggest a way I might link the two postings without confusing people or wasting anyones time? I don't want to type out everything again.

Thanks if you can help, thanks if you can't!

Oscar1

PS I don't get the thread bit!

Oscar1,

Perhaps what made some people on the other thread less than helpful was your comment about finding tipping to be obnoxious.

But I can honestly tell you that you are not alone in your feelings that tipping should be based on the level of service received.

In my opinion, tipping is ultimately a very personal thing and is totally subjective. Yes, there are "guidelines" and "norms" in many places.

The people who expect to receive tips know what those are, too.

From experience having worked in several positions where tipping was 'the norm" when someone didn't tip I susually figured they were "cheap" and, believe me, some of them were, or my service to them wasn't up to expectations.

When someone doesn't tip there certainly shouldn't even be any thought of "retaliation.'

There are undoubtedly people out there who would try to intimidate someone into tipping/tipping more. They already know that there is nothing (legal) they can do if you refuse.

I hope your trip is memorable and for the right reasons.

<i>when someone didn't tip I usually figured they were &quot;cheap&quot;</i> I never thought that maybe I gave lousy service, was rude, or otherwise offended the person who should have given me a 20% tip (including on the tax).

Happytrailstoyou,

If you had taken the time to read <b>the entire sentence</b> you'll notice it also included the words, &quot;or my service to them wasn't up to expectations.&quot;

Your comment about what I 'never thought' obviously speaks for itself.

I apologize to you, but not to other tip recipients who believe that non-tippers are, of necessity, cheapskates, niggardly, parsimonious, penny-pinching, penurious, stingy, tightfisted, or cheap.

Oscar, you're going downhill.

You say &quot;if the US system is so broken.&quot; Uh, because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's &quot;broken.&quot; In fact, if an American made such a statement about another country, we'd have to listen to that tired, old charge of being rude.
You got perfectly good explanations behind tipping in the US. If you don't agree, fine. But to assume you know what's &quot;correct&quot; and what's &quot;broken&quot; just seems beyond arrogant.

You are a cheapskate and you keep trying to defend yourself. Stay home, ok?

If you are so offended by it and disagree with it, why ask so many questions? Just do what you want.

If you don't tip, the hotel and restaurants employ guys with thumb screws and big muscles to make you see the error of your ways.

The angry person who wrote, &quot;You are a cheapskate and you keep trying to defend yourself. Stay home, ok?&quot; tells us all we need to know about him.

I'm going to jump on a moonbeam and get out of here.

Oscar, you wrote &quot;If tipping is part of a culture or expected because employers and Governments can't get their act together, why should I, as a tourist be made to feel some obligation to bolster an underpaid persons pay packet. &quot;

Well, tipping IS part of the culture of the US, and part of being a tourist is (or should be) being a polite guest and respecting that culture. That's why you should feel obliged to tip while in the US.

You may find tipping obnoxious - but under our current system it's the only way many people in the service industry can make anythng even close to a living wage.

If the laws were different - and minimum wage was actually enough to live on - and all workers received a minium wage - then tipping could be an extra for extra special service.

But when so many people in the service industries earn practically nothing - the only way they can begin to pay for housing and food is via tipping.

And - I'm not sure that simply switching tipping to a &quot;service charge: wpuld be the answer - since often much of that goes to the owner of the establishment rather than the workers.

So - like it or not - tipping is the system we have. And although not enforced by law - it is - morally and ethically required if you're going to travel in the US. Otherwise you are simply exercising your opinions at the cost of taking food out of the mouths of the children of wait staff, taxi drivers etc. - who don;t have the choice to refuse to serve you.

I am curious as to what others think about this custom: When in Las Vegas and taking a cab from one strip hotel to another, is it really necessary to tip the guy that opens the taxi door for me to get in and then again tip the guy that opens the door at my destination for me to get out? They really have not provided me with any added value - I can get in and out myself no problem and it's not like I have luggage to be loaded and unloaded. Am I wrong to think that tipping either or both or these people is redundant? Especially after I'm already tipping the taxi driver?

It appears by Oscar's second post that his intent WAS to hit a nerve.

Oscar, either tip or don't tip. But realize that if you don't, you will be perpetuating the stereotype of a certain country's tourists, of being cheap, opinionated, and obnoxious.

Well, you did ask about &quot;consequences.&quot;

Zabes,

When visiting friends who live in apartment buildings with doormen, I tip the doormen when they open a door for me because I know I am asking for this service when I make visits to their homes.

However, I don't tip people who provide a non-service I didn't ask for, such as in your example.

Now I'll sit back and wait for somebody to let me know why I am cheap, should stay out of cars and taxis, and walk or bike to all my destination.

htty

What do you want to know about consequences?

As more eloquently mentioned above, tips/gratuities to people with service jobs increases their income and their ability to support themselves and their families.

You can tip or not.

You may find it &quot;obnoxious&quot;, but how &quot;obnoxious&quot; is it not to respect local customs?

I agree with Oscar1. Custom or not, I believe that tipping is discretionary and is based on not just doing one's job but going above and beyond expectations.

For example, when the bathroom in a hotel does not have soap or the linens on the bed are dirty, I don't feel any need to tip the person who comes up to give me the soap or change linens (from the past guest mind you) when it wasn't done correctly in the first place.

I am tired of everyone holding their hand out for every little thing.

Whether one likes it or not, tipping is not mandatory, it is discretionary. I am also tired of people saying well they need the tips because that gives them a living wage. Hogwash. If you want a job that pays well, go to school and take loans out and get a better job. Don't expect me, the guest, to make up for a bad decision. Based on what I see others tip I think that many in the service industry are overpaid (when you account for the tips). Myself, I've been a waitress, hostess, worked in a hotel, etc. and I can tell you another thing is that these people are not declaring these tips when it comes time to pay the IRS. At most they declare about 10% of their tips that's it for the most part.

Yes!!

Oscar, you appear propose that fixing the system would involve employers paying better wages for their employees, but in doing so, they would raise prices on everything. Trust me, I am one of the biggest fans of the living wage, but I also know that the CEO's are not going to take smaller salaries to give that to their employees, they will just raise prices. Either way, you will end up paying more than the present menu price on a hamurger.

Yes, it is part of our culture, and part of travelling is repsecting their cultures. Similarly, in India you are expected not to kiss your wife/gf/s.o. in public, or in Japan you are expected to bow instead of shake hands upon meeting someone.

Tipping is a way to thank someone for doing something for you, whether it is dealing with traffic so that you don't have to rent a car, or bringing you food and drink so you can enjoy time with others. I felt horrible not tipping when I was abroad, even though it was considered offensive if you tip. However, I followed custom, because that's what you do when you travel.

Thank you to DUKEY, happytrailstoyou, littlemarysunshine &amp; irishtmac. You have all restored my faith in human nature.

As for the others, I have never laughed so much in my life. Especially reading the contribution from the person who talked about moral and ethical obligation and taking food out of the mouths of children. How pathetic! I'm still laughing whilst typing this, which is quite difficult. As the Pomms might say: &quot;What a nutter&quot;!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oscar1

I can think of one thing more pathetic.

Any other questions about your &quot;trip&quot;?

Oscar, may the gods of tourism smite you.

Irishmac...probably some tips still get by undeclared, but not most of them. The IRS went after them quite a few years ago and I don't know every little in and out but there are several methods that are used to calculate tip income. Much of it is taken out of the employees hands and also, more place split their tips now...easier for accounting purposes. The main responsibility for reporting tips is put on the employer with some pretty hefty fines attached for not towing the line. It must have been quite some time ago that you were waiting tables and working for tips.

Crefors, It has not been a long long time since I was a server. I am 31 years old and I worked summers during college,law school. Basically the idea is that the IRS assumes that you are getting about 10 percent roughly of your gross sales in tips (not including tax of course). When you file your taxes, you, the employee who received these tips NOT THE EMPLOYER contrary to your opinion, you must declare the amount you received in tips. Most people declare the minimum amount.

My other point is that I find it annoying especially when I travel in NYC that every cabbie expects these outlandish tips...I give him a 15 percent tip on a cab ride from manhattan to LGA and they take it like it is just an expected thing as if you HAD to give it to them in the first place. This has happened so many times to me that I have changed that tipping habit.

I think that the problem is that when you are in the service industry, having myself worked in it, is that one does have a tendency to come to just expect these tips. Unless it is an outlandishly nice tip, well then they just say thank you if you are lucky and that's it no big deal.

Having said all of that, I think that if they simply do their job a server deserves at least a 10% tip from me and I know, based on my past history in the industry, that the server will be furious. I think a 13-15% tip is in order if they give excellent service. Again, this is personal I'm just telling you what I do.

Finally, I wanted to say that being a waitress was a very difficult job---you are on your feet the whole time, running around like crazy, and juggling many tables at one time. I think everyone would learn a lot by being a server at least once in your lifetime.

This living wage argument gets me though--servers at any average and up restaurant make very good money given that these jobs require no education. The problem is that there is a shelf life to it and you can't really do it if you have physical problems/are older.

The problem our society has is that everyone wants the TOPS of everything and are willing to pay up for it regardless of income---from a $4 coffee at Starbucks to a top quality piece of chocolate from a chocolate cafe...everyone has more than one car and many are driving cars that are beyond their financial means but they do it anyway. The whole time everyone complains about how bad the economy purportedly is and how they don't make enough money. With so much focus in our culture on celebrity and wealth, and one too many episodes of MTV Cribs and abnoxious sweet 16 parties, the regular Joe feels that they are getting the raw end of the deal because they aren't living like that. The reality is they are living beyond their means and if they want to live a certain way, stop complaining about how your job doesn't pay enough and the economy and either a)get more education to advance yourself to get a better job or b) stop living beyond your means.

AND---stop tipping like money is water and instead choose to give a reasonable tip...every dollar adds up. This ridiculous tipping of everyone that puts their hand out for every little thing is fine if you are a high roller, but let's face it, most of us are not!

Irishmac, thanks for bringing some sanity to this thread. htty

From MSNBC.com's Well-Mannered Traveler (Tipping tips for travelers):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18313395/

This seems appropriate and timely!

Great article if you want to get a reputation among service people as being a big spender.

Unfortunately, it doesn't explain how much to tip when you go to a hotel or restaurant for a good time but are given a bad time.

Perhaps it's done differently in NV. The bottom line for me is...if the service stinks, I don't tip or tip next to nothing. If the service stinks, I'm not going back to that place again anyway. I don't always leave tips for the maids..depends on how they keep the room, etc. I think some people are almost intimidated into tipping. I will sometimes drop some odd change in the jar at Starbucks..depending on the type of change I get, sometimes I put in nothing. Speaking of...I noticed tip jars at several coffee houses in Stockholm...so, it's NOT JUST an American thing I was surprised to see.

I wasn't ticked off at Oscar for his question, but the way he asked it. And the answer is still, tip or not as you choose.

Oscar's a troll, please, please stop taking him seriously.

If Oscar is trolling, so are about 30% of the posts on this forum.

Please identify all of them for the amusement of those who don't care.

To whom it may concern

I had decided not to write anything further but the reference to &quot;Troll&quot; intrigued me.

Wikipedia came to the rescue. I now get the &quot;Troll&quot; reference. As I am not a &quot;Troll&quot; I will make this my very last missive. It has been quite an experience for me. My initial expectations were that I would not receive a response. Clearly I was wrong.

For those who wish to continue on your stirring ways, feel free. You will not be hearing from me again.

Oscar1

PS I have also discovered that the words &quot;thread&quot; and &quot;stiff&quot; have meanings other than the meanings I have been familiar with.

Thank you &amp; good bye!

You have contributed nothing of value to this site...
You obviously think pretty highly of yourself.
I can assure you, you will not be missed.

Oscar, &Aring;gain--don't let the schoolyard bullies drive you away. Some of them need a whipping boy on whom to release their pent up anger and frustration at not having achieved lifetime goals. You have been providing a mental health service.

I knew you were for real all the time. This forum needs authenticity. Please reconsider.

HTTY

Happy trails, thank you for posting that,

In response to Irish who said that the IRS thinks you are receiving 10% of your gross income in tips and that you have to report it. Well if you do not make tht much money on the books 10 % is not bad because I am sure most wait people make a heck of a lot more.

I am not saying this to be critical believe me just observing.