I don't get this idea, that waiters don't do anything except "keep out of the way". Either Dickie is wildly unobservant, or a troll.

<I>Either Dickie is wildly unobservant, or a troll.</i>

Nah. He is just British. There has historically been no pleasure in a British meal, so the idea that the whole transaction could ever be anything more than a means to sustenance, is a new, if not completely foreign concept.

Depending where he eats, he could even be right that anyone can be a waiter. If you eat at Applebee's all the time, one could be forgiven for thinking that the best thing a waiter can do is leave you alone. If your ideal is, as it is for Dickie, take-out, then you might not see the value in a good waiter. But those that enjoy dining out know that good waiters are integral to the enjoyment of the meal.

He said he dines in Michelin-starred establishments, which is what made me suspect trolling. There's no way a place with a Michelin star doesn't have outstanding waitstaff. OTOH, maybe they're so outstanding, diners don't even notice the work they do, lol.

<i>There's no way a place with a Michelin star doesn't have outstanding waitstaff. </i>

Technically, the stars are supposed to solely represent food quality. While it is a rare 3-star that doesn't also have great service, and it is relatively uncommon even at the 2-star level, there are 1-stars that have much more casual service. In the UK, some that pop to mind and which I have eaten at are St. John, L'Autre Pied, Hakkasan, Yauatcha, and Arbutus. My last visit to Arbutus, FWIW, had super-rushed service, and St. John was the single most disappointing meal I have ever had.

Servers should be more concerned about what their customers think of them than what they think about their customers. Self-confident people are unconcerned with what people in the service industries think of them. Following a hunting trip in 1951, Bing Crosby was denied a room at a Vancouver, B.C., hotel because he showed up dressed in hunting gear. He laughed all the way to another hotel--and the bank.

HTtY

Nah. He is just American. There has historically been no pleasure in an American meal, so the idea that the whole transaction could ever be anything more than a means to sustenance, is a new, if not completely foreign concept.

<<I don't know a single person in London that doesn't tip up to 15% and it was always explained to me as being quite normal.>>

Not in my experience, most places add a discretionary 12.5%, I don't know anyone who would add another 2 1/2%

If the restaurant doesn't automatically add it, then a 10% tip is far more common

<I>Not in my experience, most places add a discretionary 12.5%, I don't know anyone who would add another 2 1/2% </I>

Whew. Glad I said "up to 15%".

Dickie calling others part of a freak show?

Brits really are good at irony.

"There has historically been no pleasure in an American meal,"

Uh oh.

Hi all. We're in our beautiful cabin on the outskirts of Leavenworth. Our stay has been amazing and whilst the snow has been dismal, it has been wonderful all the same. We leave tomorrow and I now sit here worried about the weather warning that has been issued for tomorrow!!! We're now a bit nervous about the drive back to Saettle!!
I can't believe the tipping debate is still raging. Some people have become very heated over the whole discussion! We are managing the tipping really well- and generously I hope.
Happy New Year to you all.

Happy New Year to you, too, Kymjon. Good luck with your journey, and thanks for letting us know that you've enjoyed your trip.

Some quite large amounts have been mentioned in the above posts.Are these tips considered taxable income? If so how are they documented? Just curious.

Appia: (Full disclosure: I am not a tax accountant.)

a. Yes.
b. I don't know all the details, but the Internal Revenue Service essentially puts the responsibility on the employer for educating employees about paying taxes on tips and making sure the taxes are paid. The IRS checks each restaurant's receipts and matches that against the tip income reported. If there's a large discrepancy -- say, for instance, the tip income is only 8% of the receipts, someone is in trouble.

I see. Thanks.

See: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...urant-Tax-Tips

Thanks thursdaysd. Very clear.

Here in Italy we rarely tip and if we do it's of the 'keep the change' variety or just rounding up the bill by a couple of euros, and these 'tips' are surely not declared. I was curious how the IRS handled what in effect is the major portion of a waiter's/waitress's salary (sorry, I can't bring myself to use the word 'server'!).

Waiters are, indeed, skilled. For instance, they can tell by people's accents whether they will or will not leave good tips.

<i>They hear a foreign accent and start worrying that they are going to get stiffed on the tip.</i>

People with accents are sent to clueless waiters:

<i>People with accents got sent to the low man/woman on the totem poll.</i>

Unfortunately, there is no research as to whether the prejudice against those with accents is or is not a self-fullfilling prophesy.

HTtY

<Here in Italy we rarely tip and if we do it's of the 'keep the change' variety or just rounding up the bill by a couple of euros,>

Even though I lived in Europe (briefly), I never got the hang of this system! I think that's why this topic is evergreen: tipping is a cultural construct that is difficult to decode if you are not from that culture. Not impossible to decode, mind you, but difficult, and stressful if you are a person who wishes to do the right thing.

Very true NewbE. I can only speak for Italy and many will tell you just not to tip here. Certainly there is no rule, no percentages, no maths. The only rule could be: If in doubt don't tip. In any case if people do tip they only tip in restaurants and, as I said above, by rounding up the amount on the bill. If your meal cost 48 euros you'd give the waiter a 50 and tell him to keep the change. If the meal came to exactly 50 euros you wouldn't leave a tip. Not being Italian myself (although resident here for 33 years) I have on occasions tipped taxi drivers - much to their astonishment. Same system but never more than a euro or two.