Snow in Raleigh, NC
 

I just read this puzzling news. Raleigh, NC had major problems dealing with one (1) inch of snow. Why was this city not prepared? Any comments? 1 inch of snow? There were hundreads of accidents. How sad

I was there, it took me 13 hours to travel what would have taken me 30 minutes. I have lived here 18 years and have never experienced anything like it! It was a combination of factors. Only a light dusting was predicted, so the city did not prepare the roads. It has been very cold here, so when the snow hit, it froze right away and became a sheet of ice. School was let out 2 hours early,and business'
closed early, dumping thousands of cars and busses on the roads at the same time.There were 1000 accidents reported (thankfully no fatatities), but crews could not get to the accident sites to clear them, nor could salt trucks get to areas. Every intersection was gridlocked. Everyone is looking to point fingers of blame, but I believe this was a rare phenomenon. This was not just a case of "those southerners don't know how to drive in snow". Most of the time we stay home when it snows, but this happened unexpectedly in the middle of the day, combined with a lot of other factors.

Grumble grumble grumble.

This comes under the heading of an AP reporter from the north who either hasn't been here very long or who hasn't got much news to report -- and they just love to put stories about Southerners who just don't know how to deal with snow, as mlw. Cute cute cute.

It wasn't the snow. It was, as mlw says, the ice under it.

I grew up in the snow belt, know how to drive in just about anything; but no one can "know" how to drive on untreated sheet ice dusted with snow -- the best you can hope for is studded snow tires (illegal) and everyone driving at 1 MPH. The roads here on Wed. were very treacherous, as were sidewalks.

The poor weathermen are taking the heat (so to speak) for this, but they did say it might be more than a dusting; and the local DOTs are notorious for being caught off guard until the SECOND winter storm of every year.

Otherwise, if there is blame to be distributed, include those who panicked and sent home kids or employees in the MIDDLE of the snow squall, without checking radar or weather sources to see how extensive the snow area was -- it cleared out within another hour or so.

Grumble grumble. We have a watch for another "wintery mix" storm for the weekend. At least the kids will be at home. I love living in this area EXCEPT for the 3-4 weeks that may come sometime between about Dec. 15 and around Feb. 15, when it is damply frigid and threatens sleet and freezing rain.

I agree with Soccr.

The schools let the kids out before the road crew had started dealing with the streets. When schools let out, many parents leave work because they need to watch the kids. So now you have even more cars out on the untreated roads for parents picking up the kids and the busses driving kids around.

Then you add in the people who *THINK* they know how to drive in snow, trying to drive on ice and wrecking.

The snow stuck to the roads first (usually sticks to grass first) because of the cold weather. At lunchtime my coworker slid heading back to work. Luckily she was able to avoid hitting anyone or ending up in a ditch.

Driving home from work Wed. evening (I live and work in Durham so I didn't have the problems Raleigh people had), drivers were not adjusting to conditions. People still tailgating, talking on phones, not paying attention.

It has snowed in the Raleigh many times since the beginning of the earth and I’ve never seen a situation like the one on Wednesday. Based on that logic, one can reason that the trouble wasn’t caused by just “one inch of snow”. But the headline of “One inch of snow cripples North Carolina Capital” is just too juicy to pass up I suppose. I saw that one Yahoo this morning. I admit, I get a chuckle out of it when I see it.

Sorry, I've got to disagree. I've lived barely south of the Mason-Dixon line for a number of years and the majority of drivers here and southward are often clueless when it comes to drive in snow OR ice.

How very Southern it is to blame the media report on a northern AP writer (darn Yankees carpetbaggers are everywhere), when the story actually originated from the AP's Raleigh bureau. It had to go through one or more Raleigh-based editors.

But bad snow/ice driving is not ``a Southern thing,'' it's just a fact of life anywhere snow is infrequent. Living in Seattle a while back, I saw plenty of evidence there during the relatively rare snowstorms. The problem grew dramatically during the period of Californication.

Best snow drivers: Duluth, Minn., where lake effect snows and steep terrain allow few mistakes.

mlw, I am glad you are safe. Keeep warm and drive safely, all of you.

I am in Richmond Va and there was something like 500 accidents yesterday. Most of them on I95 which means it was probably not locals! It definitely caught our area off guard. It was supposed to be a dusting. It turned into two inchs of ice and snowy roadways. I went out unsuspectingly and I went to slow down for a light and my car just slid. Now, I am a yankee who has plenty of snow driving experience, and I turned right around and headed home. It was messy out there and there was no way I was going to chance someone else slowing down before they could plow into me! I am waiting for tomorrow's big mess to hit. I hope we all keep our electricity!!! Keeping our fingers crossed. Ever since Isabel, the slightest storm and the lights flicker. I don't think they ever quite finished fixing us.

We had gone out of town, leaving one child in school and one in daycare, to attend a funeral about 40 miles away. The funeral happened to be in the part of the state that got the most snow. When we left the church for the cemetery, we saw it was snowing quite heavily. We made it to school and daycare ok. I lived in Wisconsin for many years and am fairly comfortable driving on snow. Ice is another thing. This was one of the slipperiest snows I had seen, especially on the city streets - hills were pretty tough. This was indeed an unusual event, traffic wise. Now if you want to criticize something: Schools closed in many counties today after an expected 2 inches of snow turned into rain in most places. I wasn't happy about that, having already missed lots of work for snow days, the funeral, and the holiday this week.

My sister is an asst principal in an elementary school in Raleigh, and she and 80 kids plus teachers had to stay overnight at the school! She said she and some of the teachers served dinner for 120 people that night. She was able to come home the following morning. I'm dying to hear her details!

We were told no snow last night and it snowed ALL NIGHT into the morning. School closings did not happen until about 5:30 am. I did not even set my alarm today.
On yesterday, our county did not close early and some children (not mine) did not get home until after 6pm. This was elementary school age. That was criticized. I don't blame them for taking extra precautions. It is when they don't, that I feel they should be criticized. It is difficult for working parents, but better safe then sorry. You saw what happened to the roads yesterday and how fast it happened! crazy stuff. Glad that you made it home to your house to get your kids yesterday.

Oh Moondoogie, what a long night that must have been!!! At least they kept the kids safe and off the roads!

Thank you, Dan, for clarifying that the horrendous traffic problem in Raleigh was not just a result of Southerners who don't know how to drive in snow. I cringed when I saw the reports stating that one inch of snow had paralyzed Raleigh. It was a fluke, freaky thing that has not occurred before that caused almost 3,000 children to be stranded overnight at school. Besides, probably half of the folks who live in Raleigh are from the North (i.e, Dan) and have experienced driving in the snow. Raleigh, unfortunately, is situated in a unique area which receives wacky weather patterns that cause tornadoes, hurricanes, ice storms, and freaky snow storms.

Well, actually I am from NC but lived in WI for school and work, so I can identify with both viewpoints - Northerners and Southerners.

repete, I'm a Yankee carpetbagger myself, as I mentioned. And I also know that the reporter's dateline was Raleigh, but that doesn't mean she's a Southerner, at all at all -- they ship staffers all over the country. Note that I suggested she was either a carpetbagger herself or it was a slow news day. In any case, her report was sloppy -- I teach journalism from time to time and she didn't get it right -- she got it sensational but she didn't get it right AND she assigned blame, which is the sort of thing people criticize the press for all the time.

I also have noted that a lot of Southerners don't know how to drive in snow, but -- again -- the problem wasn't snow, it was sudden ice. People in Duluth (where the roads have a sort of perma-salt condition) would have had a problem with what happened on Wednesday, especially since they've had so little experience with the cr*p that was on the roads Wednesday.

I grew up in Raleigh (but don't live there now). Here are some issues to consider: (i) Wake County doesn't have enough trucks and crews to take care of winter weather when it occurs (because it's fairly rare, so not cost-effective); (ii) Wake Co. public schools are NOTORIOUS for letting kids out early when it snows mid-day, thinking that will make it easier on everyone to pick up kids, but really, it sends buses and parents onto untreated roads when it's still falling (my mom got into a wreck in 1987 picking me up when the schools closed early for snow); (iii) 9 times out of 10, it's not just snow in Raleigh - it's ice too (because it melts and refreezes on the warm ground under the snow, or starts as freezing rain).

I live in DC now. We also got 1-2 inches of snow on Wednesday. The fed govt let our early for the inauguration, and DESPITE the forecasted snow, road crews did not start early. Those people on the road at 3 pm had 4 hour commutes home - people had nightmare commutes that night. I worked until 8, and had no trouble at all (by then, the roads were treated). Of course, this didn't make the news, because we all know only Southerners are rubes. DC grinds to a halt every time it snows, and this city never gets as much ice/freezing rain as we used to get in Raleigh.

Note for all you "you people don't know how to drive in snow"-ers: you can't drive on ice, no matter if you do have an SUV. As for me, I stay home when it snows (and I bought a new sled for this weekend's 8 inches!).

I just don't get how one can spend 8 or 13 hours in their car on a trip that is usually 10% or less than that. don't you run out of gas? Have to go potty? Get thirsty?

As a Northerner, I want to say wimpy Southerners but I will just hold my tongue and call em exagerators! ;-)

Don't get excited...just havin some fun on Friday.

As for running out of gas or bathroom necessities, check out this story from Raleigh's paper:
http://www.newsobserver.com/front/st...-8426720c.html

repete, would you care to explain how one does drive on ice?

No duh people can't drive in snow south of the Mason Dixon line. We don't see it often enough.

Just to clarify, I don't qualify as a "southerner" but a transplant. I have lived in northern states famous for winter weather, but never had to attempt to drive on ice while there. As some other posters said, it was the ice that was the issue. One radio commentator (thanks to them for keeping us company and for the updates during the nightmare commute) said "I don't care if you are from Northern Canada and have the biggest baddest 4 wheel drive on the road, it's not helping you here tonight" He hit the nail on the head. I was miserable and uncomfortable, but thankful I had a home and family to come home to.

kgh,

Thanks for the link. Entertaining but I ain't buyin it. So at dark, this guy is really feeling the call of nature. He even watches other people heeding this need on the road. Dark must be 5 or 6PM at the latest? He hangs in another 6 or 7 HOURS plus without relief??

Please, lets be honest here....no guy that I know of would hesitate to water the nearest ditch given that situation.

I could make it the 9 hours, but my DH would have been on the side of the road just a few hours in! :)
(Although, reading the article, I don't think that there are many secluded areas along his route - not like ducking into the trees off the highway.) And, perhaps he actually indulged as well, and *ahem* wasn't so truthful in his reporting.

GoTravel:
Your classy post notwithstanding, here's the answer for non-flamers.

Driving on ice is quite possible, I've driven on a variety, including ice roads on frozen lakes.

To drive on ice:
--Have proper equipment, i.e. tires with decent tread, properly inflated.
--Know how your car handles on slippery condition and know how to use your brakes (pump or non-pump -- it's often not the answer most people think). Know how your transmission handles in various speeds or gears.
--Know you acceleration affects your control.
--At least triple the distance between you and the next vehicle.
--Know that speed limits are for optimum conditions.
--Obviously if you see GoTravel on the road, hit the ditch, it's the safest place.
--Put the darn cellphone/big mac down.
--Be aware of the areas that freeze and thaw at different rates, i.e. overpasses/bridges.

I guess we're in agreement on this, I wasn't ripping Southerners:
<But bad snow/ice driving is not ``a Southern thing,'' it's just a fact of life anywhere snow is infrequent.>

repete, your directions for driving on ice are perfect for flat areas.

However, the south isn't entirely flat.

Would you care to explain how to drive on ice when encountering hills?

After reading these posts I have to admit that I really can't criticize Southerner's. I agree, you just can't drive on ice. Fortunately, ice is less of a problem in Chicago becuase winter temps don't hover around freezing too often. It's usually above freezing and raining or below freezing and snowing. This year, though, it seems like we've had more icing problems than usual. The great advantage of living here, though, is that streets are salted and/or plowed quickly, usually before hand. So winter weather usually isn't a big deal.

Speaking of ice, I ran into a few nasty instances in Wisconsin. I remember driving from Black Earth to Madison one evening during a pre-Christmas ice storm (about 20 miles if I remember right). It was so slippery that I and most other motorists had two wheels off the road the whole time to maintain control. Ditto on the hills thing. My garage there was at the bottom of a steep hill that also slanted to one side, and I had to make a turn to get into the garage. This was amazingly difficult when there was ice or the snow was packed.

Here in New England there is usually a base layer of sand and salt from mid-November through April as I'm sure everyone with ruined shoes and filthy floors can attest. Also as someone pointed ice is not that much of a problem. It's mostly too cold or less often too warm. However, I would point out that nearly everyone can drive on ice but very few can stop.

If you're in deep snow country in some ways you're a lot safer than places that get little or no snow on the ground.

If you do have to hit the ditch there, deep snow will often mitigate the damage and usually keep you from flipping.

While living in Alaska, our home was in a mountain valley. Coming around a downhill curve, a young moose sprinted into the road and stopped. It was either the moose or the ditch.
Pretty easy choice -- especially knowing that a 4WD would be along soon and see the chance to pull my little Civic out as fun.

As for the ``nightmare commute'' in DC, I guess I missed it. The nightmare was downtown trying to get around the unpredecented security for the inauguration.

I commuted from downtown that day with no problem. In Montgomery County -- where the snow was worse -- my wife made the trip from Silver Spring near the Beltway to the school outdoor ed center in mid-county - a good drive along a hilly and snowy road -- in the late afternoon (4 p.m.) and back (7 p.m.) with no problems other than slower speeds.

That, of course, will change if the predictions are right this weekend.

Again, I'm not picking on Southerners. With all the factors in play, there's a lot less of a margin of error when something happens, like4 as ncgrrrl says, ``people still tailgating, talking on phones, not paying attention.''

Shaz's point about ice is well-taken, expecially with novice 4WD drivers who think that easy acceleration means easy stopping.

I live here in the Raleigh area and I am an insurance agent. Every snow/ice event that hits this area causes many accidents, mostly from the northerners that thought they could drive in this weather. Eventually, they learn to stay off our southern roads until after the ice melts. I just wish they wouldn't complain about having higher rates because of their "at fault accident."

canaic, your post is interestng to me because I owned an insurance agency for years. When I heard about Raleigh NC this a.m. I though, oh dear heavens, the accident reports that the insurance agents will have to deal with. Bet you are overloaded with paperwork!

I sure hope all of you that live in the areas with problems will be safe and careful. Everyone, please take good care. ((*))

It's the Northerners! Part 2

First it was ``northern'' reporter and the apparently northerner editors sensationalizing the story -- from their Raleigh office no less.

Now it's ``northern drivers'' screwing up southern roads.

What's next did ``northerners'' sell the state bad salt or faulty plows?

Since Raleigh apparently gets a kind of ice that is unique in all the world (and has hills!), I'm sure scientists from around the world will soon flock there to study it.

But you're not picking on Southerners....

read my posts, which say bad driving on snow is not ``a southern thing,'' it happens just about anywhere where snows are infrequent.

But I guess I am taking to task the claims -- without proof -- that say:

1) a northern reporter infiltrated the Raleigh AP bureau and sensationalized the story (and hoodwinked) her southern editors.

2) the traffic problems were caused by northerners who didn't know how to handle southern ice.

3) that somehow raleigh gets a special kind of icing that those of us who don't live there can't understand.

Yet posters from the region were already defensive about this before I ever jumped in. They noted that:

1)The DOT was prepared

2) Folks ``panicked''

3) Still tailgated, talked on cellphones.

My very first post said it wasn't about the South. It's about ill-prepared drivers who happen to live in the South.

But it's most certainly not some northern media/motorist conspiracy.

I was thinking about this post when I saw on tv people from Detroit, Chicago and media central NYC slipping and spinning on the roads during the weekend storm. I hope everyone was okay but I did want to stand up and scream "See, it isn't a southern thing."

However, after that, they used the local feed of people sliding over the Durham Freeway (though just mentioned as "weather bad as far south as North Carolina")