Hann is entitled to prefer San Diego to San Francisco, and those of us who have read him through the years know that if the discussion were between San Diego and San Jose, he would be championing San Jose as the much more attractive place.

But the assertion that SD is a larger, more metropolitan urban area than SF due to the larger central city population reminds me of the classic book "How to Lie With Statistics."

Both these areas are large conglomerations of cities and towns running into, and often indistinguishable from, each other, but with a clear focus in the central city. It happens that the city of San Francisco proper is surrounded on three sides by water and on the fourth by a mountain range. The area was built up longer ago and suburban cities were established early on the other sides of these barriers.

On the other hand, the city of San Diego was able to expand, as it grew later, easily, without such formidable geographic barriers, into relatively unpopulated areas to the west amd south.

So it happens that only about 20% of the metropolitan area of SF is within the central city limits, while about 60% of the SD metro area is within the limits of its central city. These city/suburb distinctions are important politically, but are not very noticeable in daily life.

In actuality SF is the center of a metropolitan area of nearly four million, while SD is the center of one with a population of a little more than two million. And in comparing these two populations, all the territory I'm including is within about 45 minutes (non-rush-hour) driveof the center city downtown. I don't think it meaningful to lump together areas further apart than that in the same metro area, so I don't consider SD and LA to be in the same metro area nor, Hann, do I include San Jose in the San Francisco area.

In terms of which of the two between SF and SD shares more of the amenities and the feel of a "world class" city with Chicago--for all SD's many worthy urban and scenic attractions, and its much more nearly Oahu-like weather, SF runs away with the competition.

Those of us who have read him over the years also know that Hann and Guarto are the same person, who is not secure enough in his opinions to let them stand on his own, but has invented a little group of mythical people who pop up on the same thread "agreeing" with each other.

A bit of evidence for those unfamiliar with him who may be skeptical of my assertions--compare my prediction that Hann would champion San Jose over San Diego if those were the two cities being compared, with Guarto's assertion that San Jose is the true center of what he claims should be called not the San Francisco Bay Area, but the San Jose Bay Area.

After much controversy over several months in late 2003 and early 2004, and many complaints to the Fodor's editors from those of us who find this practice of one person posing as multiple people on the same thread an abuse of the forum, this person and his group of screen names abruptly vanished in mid 2004 and has been banned or otherwise absent for more than a year, but now has made a sudden reappearance.

Us SF's are definately the "coolest"!
seriously, out of my 4* years, all but 2 of them were spent in the SF bay area.
The most horrid 2 were the remaining 2 in the LA area. Make your own decision.
I also seem to remember No Ca people are cuter...where did I read that..?

With the addition of Abi, that's three names used by the same person on this thread. Those in doubt should note the thread "San Jose Troll" in the Fodor's News and Announcements forum.

Everyone should be entitled to their views, but I don't think the practice of bringing in nonexistent, invented "peop;e" to agree with one is honest or should be tolerated.

JBC411: Actually we are currently up to FIVE of the SJ Troll's old names active again.

Franklinn, Robinsen,
Guarto, Hann and Abi. This has been brought to the Editors attention on News and Announcements -- but so far no action or response. (maybe they are too worried about helpful posters who maybe made mistakes in judgement, instead of ridding the site of a REAL troll who does REAL damage and is dishonest)

I haven't been following this thread, but peaked in this morning. What caught my eye was what Abi posted: Greater San Jose Bay Area, what the heck as that? I've lived my entire life in either Santa Cruz or San Francisco and have never heard some one say "Greater San Jose Bay Area".

=:-)

I believe that's the troll icon? Here's a one-time-only poster with a question that could easily provoke a brawl -- which fortunately, has not really arisen here except by suggestion.

At least with a question like "which costs less?" there's a way to answer it meaningfully.

This has more to do with the relocator than the new location, for sure.

Franklinn, Robinsen, Guarto, Hann, Abi and now Lake. Before too much longer he will have resurected all of his old personnae and do most of the work for the Fodors editors (if they care)

For any newbies or those unfamiliar w/ northern California -- Franklinn, Robinsen, Guarto, Hann, Abi and Lake are ALL THE SAME person. Fodors editors finally got a handle on this last November and he was banished - but he's back -- must be celebrating his anniversary or something.

Next step is he will come on here and say everyone that disagrees with his is the same person - and off we go into never never land.

BTW - If anyone has any questions about various posters, their identy or posting history - just click on their name.

If you are a true metrophile, you will be far happier in San Francisco than San Diego. San Diego the city has the greater population only because more of the metropolitan area is within the city limits. Otherwise, the SF Bay area has a far larger poplulation than the SD metropolitan area, and more important, SF is far more cosmopolitan than San Diego, which is more than a little provincial in character.