Salary question
 

As someone who is considering a move to NYC from Virginia, I have a salary question. As a southerner, I think we tend to think we need to earn a little more than we need to in order to survive in NYC, but maybe not. My job would most likely be in Manhattan and I don't want a huge commute (living there would be ideal). What salary would I need to maintain a modest 1 bedroom, have fun weekend say every other weekend. I don't have to be wealthy but I don't want to constantly worry about my finances. I heard I was screwed if I didn't earn 100k. Is this right?

Having had many friends and family recently flee NYC due to the cost, I wouldn't say you're screwed, but I think it's safe to assume 100 is a good start. It's such an amazing place to be, and I love to visit whenever I can, but it's no fun to live there on a strict budget. Seems like everyone but you is having fun, I'm told, and who wants to live like that?!

I'm sorry to have to give this information to you, but 100k and a 1-bedroom in a decent Manhattan neigborhood is not going to fly.

homefair.com or some other relocation help website should give you an accurate salary calculator that would match the lifestyle that you currently have.

I think you have to earn a greater differential than "a little more".

And huge commutes are a way of life in NY to avoid paying unbelievable amounts for housing. (That is why I live in Boston - not exactly a housing bargain, but a 1 1/2 hour - 2 hour commute for something I could afford was not something I could tolerate)

Okay...so I'm going to break a bit from the crowd and try to break down this question for you. I have friends that live in Manhattan for that salary (and less!), in 1-bedrooms or studios, and manage to have fun EVERY weekend (and sometimes during the week too!).

Obviously any answer to this question is highly subjective and relative to the lifestyle that you feel you need. I'm going to give this answer as a 20-something with no kids and relatively few financial obligations other than basic living expenses and long-term retirement planning.

So let's break this down into cold hard numbers. You are making $100K, so after taxes (federal, state, and city), 401K contributions, healthcare, and social security, that paycheck looks a bit more like $65K.

I'm going to assume that your company will not cover relocation. You'll have to cover moving costs out of your own pocket.

Apartments - you probably shouldn't rule out living in studios in addition to 1-bedrooms. This is high rental season right now, but a starter studio in a decent (safe but boring) neighborhood in Manhattan will be about $1600. This will be an older apartment in a walk-up brownstone. Studios can cost up to $3K, but a good mid-point is probably about $2K. 1 br are generally more than this. So let's put your rent range from $2,000-$2,500 per month.
The kicker about NYC apartments is that 1) landlords generally require your pre-tax income to be 40x the rent 2) You'll most likely be paying a broker for the apartment, which will be about 1/12-15% of the annual lease. Ouch.
In sum, with an income of $100K, you can legitamtely rent an apartment that costs up to $2,500 month without having to have someone co-sign your lease.

Transportation - The great thing about NYC is "goodbye car, gas, car payments, and insurance". Your monthly subway pass will cost you $76, and you can plan on spending another $40 on cabs to supplement.

Utilities - that big apartment you were renting in hot VA probably costs a fortune to cool in the summer. Your shoebox in NYC will be much cheaper. Plan on an electricity bill of around $130 per month for an average 1-br apt. Cable and internet can range from $75-$150 depending on what level of service you want.

So, after rent, utilities, and transportation costs, your monthly income would look like this:
$63K/12 - $5,250K per month
Rent - $2,500
Utilities - $200
Transportation - $125
Total left after basic expenses - $2,175

With that remaining $2,175, you probably want to save some of it, but I'll leave that up to you.

Other things you need to cover (this is what it costs me per month)
Laundry - $60
Gym - $80
Cell phone - $50
Groceries - $200


So now you have an idea of one person's monthly expenditures in NYC. Hopefully other people will jump in to give you a better idea, but yes, I think you could live in NYC for $100K and have a comfortable life.

I would encourage you to look at Craigslist to see what rentals look like in various neighborhoods. Write back with questions!

I have friends who live in NYC and make $100K and less. You can do it. Figure if you get a roommate rent will run you about $1500 each for a decent place, you could rent a studio for less than $2000. My friend rents a pretty decent studio on W. 14th St. for $1400. You won't have a car so some of those expenses will be cut down. NYC is expensive but I think worth the financial sacrifice for the experience.

I had a friend who made this same decision. She left a mortgage of $1100 (3 bedroom house) to a 1 bedroom/ 800 sq ft apt at $1500. She was shocked at how big of a chunck taxes took out of her paycheck - had not experienced city taxes before. When I was considering a relocation, her advice was not to touch the offer if it was less than 100K. All of this was 10 years ago.

Your biggest factor will he what you will be happy with regarding housing. Your biggest savings will be car related expenses - unless you bring your car and that's $400/month to park it.

Good luck with your decision.

Also consider your long-term goals. If you want to own something, eventually, it's not a good move. If you want to do it for a while for fun - do it.

It really depends on the lifestyle you would like to maintain while you are living here. There are lots of ways that you can cut out expenses in your life to make this affordable (skipping Starbucks, cooking at home, bringing lunch to work). If you are willing to live within your means then you should be fine. I know this sounds like common sense...

I would also suggest you don't rule out the boroughs. Depending on where you're working, your commute may actually be shorter from a borough to work than from a far away neighborhood in Manhattan (i.e. crosstown). There are plenty of young, vibrant, fun neighborhoods surrounding Manhattan where you can find 1-bedrooms for either a) more space, or b) less money (and sometimes both). Paying a bit less for what you want might free up a little bit of your "fun" money.

Astoria, Queens is a great neighborhood, and a quick 20-minute hop to midtown. Brooklyn also has plenty of great areas, depending on the atmosphere you're looking for.

In addition to rent, another budget factor you need to consideris food- sure, restaurants are expensive, but so are groceries. So just be prepared to pay a little bit more for every gallon of milk and loaf of bread. This goes double for drinks during those nights out!

I agree with considering to live in places like Astoria. Not only are the rents lower, but everything costs less. There are great, inexpensive, ethnic restaurants and food shops in many queens neighborhoods, and Astoria just happens to be one of the best.

Places like Astoria, jackson Hts and long island city have very short commutes to midtown manhattan. Brooklyn hts, and it's other neighboring brooklyn areas are a very short commute to lower Manhattan.

How much to buy a decent studio/1BR condo in Manhattan?

That's an impossible question - anywhere from $350K for a studio through sky's the limit for a one-bedroom. Depends a lot on whether it's a co-op or condo (most are co-ops), neighborhood, square footage, schools, etc., etc.

Property taxes are incredibly low in Manhattan, but closing costs are much, much higher than in other parts of the country.

The majority (at least 85%) or apartment buildings are co-ops. They can limit how much of the purchase you can finance. Buyers also must pass an interview with the co-op board. Even if you make an offer and it's accepted, you are not necessarily approved for the building.

This is a whole other topic...

Thanks...I was just thinking that perhaps the OP shd consider buying something so it is not really a different topic....

I don't mean it's not relevant, it's just a whole other tangent.

I just have to comment that I thought it was funny that $130 was a bargain for electric in a one bedroom. I live in Raleigh, NC and I have never paid more than $55 for electricity- winter or summer. I have a one bedroom, 900 sq. ft apt. I don't have any gas bill, so all of my heating, cooling, and cooking (and I cook a lot) is coming into play there.

I'm guessing this person from VA is probably paying what I am, so I don't think he should start counting that as part of his/her savings.

Good luck to you though! I have toyed with the idea of moving to NY many times, but I think I've passed the time in my life where I could do it. Chicago seems like a better option everyday with its lower rent and "big city" feel.

"...it's just a whole other tangent."

I'm not sure if this is "a whole other tangent."
I still have yet to hear from gladiator if he may have a property to sell in Virginia and then purchase a 1-bedroom in NYC. If so, then, the equation would change.

BTW, I agree that Astoria and LIC are good outer borough places to live in.

gladiator, Why do you want to move away from Virginia to the most expensive place on the face of the earth? 100k will land you in a one bedroom NYC dump.

Come to Minnesota and get three bedrooms, 2 car garage, front and back yard, consumer items for half the price, and no traffic problems. All for about 100K. I live on about 100 acres of beautiful rolling hills for just a little over what that NYC apartment dump in a "building" would cost you.

Fine, I give up.

lizzie...I get where you are coming from....

Pirces vary even in Manhattan. Washington Heights is still in Manhattan but would be much cheaper than central Park west in the 70s. Because of the ridiculous prices, people are now moving to areas of the Bronx that would have been unheard of 10 years ago.

Ummm, Jorr,

Are you the one who starts "Freaky Friday" every Friday morning at 12:01 a.m.?

Now that's a travel poster for MN!

Hey guys, thanks for all of the feeback, it has been extremely helpful. Lizzie you are extremely helpful...so don't give up. My thinking is similar to yours. Your budget analysis was cool! To answer a few more questions, no I don't have a property to sell now, so purchasing a place is not an option. The reason for me to even consider NYC is the boost it will give my career (Wall Street type). I have seen it too many times to count, the value that other parts of the country places on that experience, (whether it is really any better or not). Everyone I know who has done it for say two years or so comes back and makes twice as much as me. Keep in mind, I am not trying to live there forever (unless I really hit it big). As far as my age, I am 32 so I need to do it now, if I am going to do it. Looking at rental rates, it seems like the burroughs or NJ is becoming more a reality. My friend just made the move several months ago, and he went to park slope brooklyn. Seems like most of my potential employers are in Midtown, but some are downtown. I actually have noticed some "good" apartment deals in Astoria. A little more about me: I don't mind cooking, I do it now. I don't drink coffee, so that $5 a morning habit is not there. Yes I have a vehicle (paid for)I would like to bring and park somewhere but rarely drive unless going out of town, but not for $400 a month. I have no problem parking it someowhere far away for a cheaper price. Jersey? Someone mentioned chicago, yes that's an option as well that I have been looking at, but again, it goes back to the NYC thing. Thanks again for the input.

Gladiator,
There's a lot of building along the "Gold Coast", in Edgewater, NJ. Ferry service is 5 min to midtown; and about 15 to downtown. You can get a 1 bedroom rental there for around 2-2,500 & garage your car under the building. Ferry is around 200-250 a month.

Thank you for your clarifications - I thought these are useful in providing you the more accutrate information.
I also agree that lizzie did provide a lot of helpful information.

BTW, Park Slope in Brooklyn is another excellent place with very good restaurants and lot's of activities to indulge at a lower cost than Manhattan.

GREAT thread, folks. I'm sending the link to my adult children who entertain the idea of moving to NYC. Thanks!

While housing is obviously your major expense, I find daily living expenses to be higher in metro NYC as well. Agree with lizzie that you can cut costs, and summers in NYC have some free entertainment options.

But the kind of things I am talking about is more lifestyle of New Yorkers than anything else. Harder to find big discount supermarkets - lifestyle of many is to shop more often in more expensive little stores. Meeting friends for a drink in a bar is likely to cost 10-25% more per drink than many other geographies. Even expectation of clothing style is higher. A movie costs almost twice what it does in my little local theatre near Boston.

Sure it is possible to buck these expectations - you have to decide if you can or want to.

NY Waterway Ferry Service is excellent. The commute from Brooklyn to Manhattan is getting worse every day. It’s such a pleasant ride by ferry – no delays even in bad weather. I’d look at Jersey or the boroughs before Washington Heights (we call that “Upstate Manhattan”!).

I moved to New York about 2 years ago from Virginia. I live in Park Slope and have a 30-minute commute to midtown. I make under 50K. I rent a three-bed room apartment with 2 friends for $2500 (total). I'm not a real estate expert, but a friend of mine rents a studio apartment in the East Village for $1500.

While I can see your situation is pretty different from mine--- I would echo other posters when it comes to looking in Brooklyn. It would be very convenient if you're going to be working in lower Manhattan. Other neighborhoods to look in: Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens, and Boerum Hill. Buying in these neighborhoods is expensive though. If you don't have a ton of cash and don't plan on staying in the city long, renting is not a bad option, just an expensive one.

I had a car for a year in Park Slope. You can park it for free on the street, but moving it for street cleaning can be annoying. I would consider selling it. Garages are expensive---$250-300 a month.

I love Virginia, but I have never regretted moving here...especially for just a few years.

Good luck!

Thanks for the validation everyone - I was late for work writing my "budget breakdown" this morning:-)

You really might like Hoboken as well. There are ton of younger people living there, and the town is actually fun in its own right (lots of bars and restaurants).

If you can, ditch the car at your parent's house, especially if you'll rarely drive it. If not, as other posters have noted, you can park it on the street if you live outside Manhattan. You will have to move it at least twice a week for street cleaning. Parking it on the street will also take a toll on your car.

I work in a financial services company, and it is an undeniable boost to your resume to have experience on Wall Street. You can also inflate your salary and then move somewhere with a lower cost of living in a few years.

I adore Park Slope- beautiful brownstones, nice shops & restaurants, and lots of baby strollers and dogs. You're looking at about a 35-40 minute commute to midtown.

You might also consider my neighborhood, Forest Hills- it's lovely, safe, and "up and coming" (so prices are still okay). An express subway takes you to midtown in about 30 minutes. There are several subway lines, which makes getting to most parts of Manhattan convenient. It's not a "young and hip" neighborhood (more babies and dogs), but there are things to do and some nice restaurants and shops. We're in our mid-20s and have noticed a lot of people our age in the area.

My husband and I also debated living in NJ (particularly Hoboken) and ultimately decided that somewhere NYC was preferable for us and our needs. I wanted to be able to hop on the subway at any hour and not adhere to a schedule. The ferry system is great, as is the Path (especially for commuting)- but they will just be somewhat more limiting than the NYC subway system. Plus, the Path/ferry take you INTO the city but don't go all over Manhattan, so you'll likely still need to take subways to get to your ultimate destination and your costs will be a bit higher. Just something to keep in mind.

We have a car, and it's both a blessing and a curse. Gas is very expensive here- about $3.35 a gallon. And insurance is through the roof. However, especially in the boroughs, street parking can be found and is free. It's wonderful to be able to get out of the city sometimes, and there's so much to explore in the greater Tri-State area. It's also great to have the option of going to Costco and loading up, which is a money-saver for us. But, keep in mind that you can always rent cars, and if you're really going to drive infrequently, it might not be worth it to park and insure a vehicle.

Regarding buying an apartment, as someone who just went through the process, I can assure you it is a pain with the co-op system! And be prepared to put 20% down- many co-ops require this. If you're not planning to stay awhile, the cost might not be worth it. But if you do want to buy, I would again recommend you consider Forest Hills- very nice 1-bedrooms are still possible for under $300,000.

Perhaps this is a naive observation, but it seems to me that if the OP is 32 and has been working in the financial sector, wouldn't any Wall Street type firm be paying him over $100,000--especially after bonuses? I thought new college grads (22 yr. olds) were starting out at upwards of 75K.

It depends heavily on what type of finance job the OP has. A junior trader or investment banker would be starting around there (or higher), but there are so many other types of finance jobs.

One of my good friends lives in NYC. She makes a little less than 100k. She seems to have fun (she is late 20's and work in the financial sector), but she has lived there for about 3 years and is ready to move on to somewhere cheaper and warmer, probably in the South.

The reason: she is sick of throwing money away on rent. She pays about $2200/month on rent. That is like throwing that money out the window. She really enjoys the going out aspect of NYC, as well as the variety of things to do.

However, she just can't stomach the money aspect of it. Everytime I go to NYC as an adult, I say to myself that it would be the best city to live in the country IF you had a good amount of money (I'm thinking at least $200k/year). That way you can go to the restaurants, shows, etc., that are great, but also have an investment. Regardless of how much money you have in NYC, the city is expensive.

If you wish to live in NYC, then godspeed, you'll find a way to make it work financially. The poster above that had a summary of the budget was very informative, but in my experience a little off, NYC taxes are back breaking.

We've lived here for 7 years and are going back to the C'ville-Richmond area. Pretty much the same salaries, certainly less taxes and better QOL. There are things we'll miss about NYC, but there are a lot of things we won't (blue state doesn't necessarily mean tolerant, my wife has been an active junior leaguer for 3 years and has seen the most bigoted, intolerant people in her lifetime).

If your interest is in finance and business, NYC is a great move, just be mindful of the sacrifices you'll have to make.

QOL is measured differently. We don;t care that we don't have a 6-bedroom house on 2 acres in a gated suburb and membership in the most exclusive country club. We would rather have access to the Met, the theater, the ballet, the restaurants, walking and biking in Central Park, and the excitement of the city.

As well as all our friends and family here, and just enjoying the enormous diversity - to us - the City isn;t a sacrifice - it's exactly what we want.

If it isn;t what you want - and really feel you're making a sacrifice - they why stay?

based on what others have told me, $100K will allow you a somewhat comfortable life in NYC. ouch.

i live in LA and have lamented how expenses it is, but then several people who know better have reminded me how pricey NYC is.

good luck!

No Suerich68, I don't start the thread at 12:01 AM. The world does not run on eastern time. Hope I don't burst your bubble but their are 24 time zones. MN is in CENTRAL time for a reason and you are one hour off.

BTW Suerich68, FFR&R gets about five thousand posts per year. Twenty thousand since it started.