Suzie , my comment was not meant as criticism. Since we have participants on this forum from all over the country and world, I thought it was important to point out that the situation may vary from place to place.

Arizona not only has access to California DMV files, if you don't take the class they may report the points to California!

And yes, in Arizona you do have to pay the fine as well as take the class if you want to avoid points.

I know this by personal experience, unfortunately.

Although mine was for speeding not a red light. And it was a total speed trap.

At least in California they only do it for red lights.

One reason for heavy fines for running red lights in San Francisco: They have had a LOT of problems with pedestrians killed in crosswalks - crossing with the light - and are very keen to get people to respect traffic lights!

<<<They have had a LOT of problems with pedestrians killed in crosswalks - crossing with the light - and are very keen to get people to respect traffic lights!>>>

That's news to me (and I have lived and worked here for 36 years).

Admittedly, I live in the east Bay and only for 11 years, but I've certainly heard about it. At least periodically - not for a while.

But red light fines are hideous over here too. If you have to break a traffic law, that's one of the ones you really don't want to.

I really believe that the heavy fines for running red lights are because 1) you shouldn't run red lights, it is at least theoretically dangerous to do so, 2) they can and 3) to make money, probably in reverse order. Now you've piqued my interest, so I'll do a little research!

They are a cash cow for the contractor. The cities are lucky if they break even.

As to whether they have any effect on safety, that is open to dispute.

"<i> . . . it is at least theoretically dangerous to do so</i>"

'theoretically'?

Red light collisions are among the very worst. Being t-boned by an idiot racing through a red usually results in serious injury or death because it hits full force on the driver's or passenger's door/window.

sf7307 - I've read many stories in the Chron about the pedestrian accidents - but not any/many in the last 5 years. Perhaps they have done something to solve the problem by installing the cameras & charging heavy fines.

Lots of pedestrians & cars got hit by CalTrain trains this year (a couple of suspected teen suicides). Three weeks ago, the Chron reported a car in Redwood City was stopped on the RR tracks with several cars in front of him. I "guess" he knew that if a train came by, the traffic light would automatically turn green to let the cars get off the tracks. Well - the train came, the light turned green, but at the same time a fire truck (or ambulance) came by & the cars in front of him did not proceed through the intersecton when the light turned green. He was "pinned in" & hit by the train & killed. People do stupid things while driving.

Stu Dudley

I've read that most of the "robotickets" for red lights are the California stop ie rolling thru the red light on a right turn. Don't know if that' true or not, but not all red light violations are deadly.

Well a female pedestrian who was in the crosswalk was just killed last night in SF.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...th09.DTL&tsp=1

Oh, what terrible news! My dh was so tense driving through SF. The pedestrians and bicylists act like they own the city and just step out or wizz by you without looking.

(no ticket yet. It's been 4 weeks now)

Pedestrians have the right of way once they step down in the street within a cross-walk. That is theoretically true throughout California.

Lots of people with the right of way are in the cemetery. Just because you should have the right of way doesn't mean you should challange a car to make a point. Everyone should drive, bike and walk with caution. But those who don't have any steel encasement should be especially vigilent if they intend to live another day.

<i>The pedestrians ... act like they own the city and just step out</i>

The point is that one should not complain about pedestrians stepping out if they are in a cross-walk. And I agree that pedestrians should not assume that every driver will honor the rules.

As my father always said "you can be right, dead right".

Please people, be careful when in SF whether you are driving or are a pedestrian. And be sure to watch out for busses and trucks especially when they are turning from one street to another.

My only point was that the pedestrians were aggressive. They would anticipate when the crosswalk light would turn white (by watching the intersection light turn yellow) and then step out BEFORE they had the official light to cross.

Didn't their moms teach them to look both ways before they cross the street?

It's no different here in NY. When I'm driving, there are always people and bikes to look out for because they don't observe the laws and the lights and jump out wherever. And today, as a pedestrian, I was crossing a street with dh - with a green light - and a woman in a huge suv almost hit us. We were well into the crosswalk and had to jump back; she was in a hurry to make a turn that would take her to a red light at the next corner! It's a sore point for dh because his mother was hit by a truck and dragged while crossing with the light; she died instantly.

Oh how heart-wrenching!