That stuff happens everywhere though, you can't just blame it on the south. Growing up a friend of mine had a brick thrown through her family's window with racial slurs written on it for being a the first black family to move into a section of Chicago's south 'burbs that was all white in the 1970's ... of course the absurdity was that none of the other towns surrounding this place where racially homogenous, and now the whole area is majority black, and all this was only a few miles from Chicago's south-side which is, as everyone knows, is and was majority African-American. Racism, sadly, knows no geographic boundaries, I've seen it everywhere.

Does anyone know what percentage of the population is black in ultra-white Colorado? It is so easy to address the problems of others when one is isolated from them.

I grew up in New Mexico where there are still so very few African-Americans. The abuse and discrimination of Mexican-Americans there is horrible. I listened to it for years and wondered how my own relatives could be so intolerant -- but this sort of stuff is ingrained and part of the culture.

So let's quit the quibbling. I'll wager there's barely a single poster here who is African-American.

Tandoori_Girl - very good point, it is very easy to address the problems of others, and other regions indeed when your region is comprised of an entirely different demographic and has an entirely different history (sort of like wealthy suburbs who look down their noses at poorer parts of the country wondering just how they got themselves to that state when every house in their town is worth over a million dollars and on one acre plots and no actual poor people can afford to live within their city limits). I think when you grow up somewhere that is very racially and economically mixed, or has a rough racial past, you come to terms with some pretty complex stuff pretty quick and realize that making lump sum judgments about racial issues is rather misguided (I'm speaking as someone who spent her youth as a Caucasian attending majority African American schools where 40% of the student population was considered low-income, an outsider looking in probably would see an entirely different picture of how I grew up than I would though). I am not making an excuse for racism, or most any ‘ism’ for that matter, I find it disgusting and refuse to tolerate it (and having a multi-racial extended family, know what is it like to have racial slurs in the presence ethnic groups I consider myself related to), but I also know that to make summary judgments on an entire region of the country without looking in your own backyard is neither wise nor advised.

oh my - touched a wee nerve with that...

you love your home - that's fine... enjoy it. No real need to be quite so "techy"....

Much earlier this year and on another thread I had thought that very same thing that Tandoori Girl just wrote, and then decided to let the whole thing drop as it is impossible to convey life experiences to those who talk the talk- but don't walk the walk. Those who don't live with huge change or high chance of daily violence from strangers just do not know what "works" to stop and defuse overt discrimination. They know the rote message, and feel that they have the answers.

After having seen what didn't work, does not work now, and what does work then AND now- you can put humor close to the top of what does.

In Chicago I or an immediate member of my family have experienced so much worse than that kind of discrimination described above, that if I told you even one or two of the incidents you would not believe me. In fact, in my teens I was razored in the face by a girl just because I was white. Total stranger, no words whatsoever. That's why one of my eyebrows doesn't totally mesh and certainly does not need to be plucked. And that was the least and only the first one.

That's why I get so fed up with all the rhetoric about real empathy and how to relate in jokes etc. And I won't tell you about the worst attack when I was 17 because the boys thought I was Cuban.

Not one of Seamus' rules has any name calling. There is no gomer or any other derogatory name. The "insult" you put into the mix is only one you have been conditioned to read into the information.

Humor is how we got through some of these times. That's how we made contact as humans to overlook the economic and cultural differences along with the other cruel realities.

AND no one has more empthy toward those facing change, gigantic change from mass human migration. When the location can not economically or culturally support this mass influx, you will feel more than sad at seeing your way of life totally change.

And you will need more than a savvy and polite answering philosophy. It hurts, just as I can feel/read from the poster who is seeing her small size town life slip away.

My immediate family has lost: a business butcher shop (burned in the 1968 riots), a two flat apartment building, a VINTAGE Chicago marble facade walk up that would have been worth at least a million dollars if located anywhere else today. We GAVE that away to a wonderful Black man who after having the front door burnt out 3 times in 7 years gave up on it altogether. The 2 flat is an empty lot, and the other is just a shell with the marble striped off the supports and sold piecemeal. The insurance was so minimal that it was like starting totally over. AND we were said to have "flight." I hardly think so. My parents are still right there today.

The Church I was married in, the Cathedral my parents were married in are all totally gone.

And oh yes, in 1933 my GRANDMOTHER was firebombed for renting to a black family- so it has been generally multi-generational, as well. There are bigots on both sides.

One time I "was read the lecture" from a poster, and then looked up the demographic of their state. 89% White, 3% Native American and they were giving ME the diversity lecture.

Sorry, to relate any of this actually. And the only reason I do is to keep the laughs coming in, so that people like Seamus keep posting. The climate has changed to where people have little humor as they are so scared of stepping on toes.

Seamus' rules were FUN and not derogatory to anyone, North or South.

Keep the laughs coming. I need them.

And, Tandoori Girl, there certainly are Afro-Americans on these boards. There was one Black attorney from D.C. on here all the time before registration.
But she got sick of telling people with 3 to 10% diversity how it really is, I think.

Fascinating. Apparently people didn't go back to bed. I saw some appalling racism in Chicago, worse than NC, but I've seen some very ugly racism -- in many directions btw -- here, too. But these stuck out <i>because</i> they were so horrific.

Otherwise, no one who knows me would ever call me humorless -- hardly! And I confess that I'm a &quot;recovered&quot; teller of ethnic jokes during my adolescence. I stopped not because I was &quot;<i>afraid</i> of stepping on toes&quot; but because I saw the offense and didn't <i>want</i> to hurt or insult someone -- their culture shouldn't be a fertile field for my fun-making, and I will say (are you listening, Fodors?) that travel made the difference in helping me understand that.

Some people might tell jokes about their mother but then they find they hate it if someone else makes the same jokes about her. Why even go there? -- life is absurd everywhere you look! In my case, it begins in the morning when I look in the mirror.

JJ5 - a coworker of mine's father lost his store in the riots too. and I have had some experiences of my own that haven't been too pleasant. Brutal stuff.

Seamus -- the post was funny, if you can't make fun of where you live, then what is the point of living there.

. . . and this started off as such a funny post . . .

Why do posts here turn so fractious.

I very seldom ever come to this forum anymore and this is one reason.

My two cents . . .

Sandy (in Denton) and yes, that's Texas

&quot;...if you can't make fun of where you live, then what is the point of living there....&quot; Huh? You choose a place to live that you want to make fun of?

&quot;...I very seldom ever come to this forum anymore and this is one reason...&quot; But here you are, nonetheless, and posting.

Time for the thread to die.

soccr,

Some of us actually do not &quot;choose&quot; where we live. We may feel a responsibility to take care of others who can not care for themselves, or for whatever reason economically or physically, we may be required to live in certain locations.

That right of entitlement and choosing is not universal by any means.

Nor are you the arbitrator of ends. The site people may be, but you're not.

Posts turn fractious because people here are opinionated. And I am one.

But I love to laugh, and so do so MANY of us need to laugh. Please save us from self-righteous censors, and keep the jokes coming.

And now, for some more humor (from &quot;A Southern Belle Primer&quot; by the inimitable Maryln Schwartz):
A Southern Belle's Ten Golden Rules:
1. Never serve pink lemonade at your Junior League committee meetings. It has Communist overtones.
2. Always wear white when you walk down the aisle (even if it's for the third time).
3. Never wear white shoes before Easter or after Labor Day. The only exception, of course, is if you're a bride. Bridesmaids, however, must never wear white shoes. Bridesmaids' shoes should match the punch.
4. It doesn't matter if you marry a man who doesn't know the difference between a shrimp fork and a pickle fork; you can always teach him. Just make sure he can afford to buy you both.
5. Never date your sorority sister's ex-husband until at least 3 years after the divorce. You might need her to write your daughter a Kappa Kappa Gamma recommendation one day. Just remember it's a lot easier to find a new man than it is to get your daughter into Kappa.
6. Never marry a man whose mother and grandmother owned silver plate instead of real silver. He's not used to quality and he'll try to cheat you on the divorce settlement.
7. It's never too soon to write a thank-you note. Some belles take the notes and a pen with them to a party. In the middle of the evening they go into the ladies room and write a thank-you describing how much they enjoyed the dinner. They then put the note in the mailbox as they leave. The hostess receives it first thing in the morning. Sure this is compulsive, but you're going to have to be compulsive if you want to be president of the Junior League.
8. Never show your bosom before evening and never wear an ankle bracelet before anything. Girls who wear ankle bracelets usually end up twirling batons. There has never been a baton twirler who became Miss America and there's certainly never been a baton twirler in the Junior League.
9. Never chew gum in public and never smoke on the street.
10. Buy low. Sell high.

Those are great Laura! lol!

I think the rules are funny, and I do not mean in a way that is derogatory.

JJ5--My DH was career military, so we had no choice on where we lived during that time, so I understand what you are saying. BTW, humor definitely helped in those duty stations that were not ideal in our eyes, as well as the places we did like. Humor just helps in life:) Thanks!

You forgot the Eleventh Commandment:

Thou shalt drink thy tea WITH sugar


or, as asked by the waitress, &quot;Sweet tea, honey?&quot;

&quot;, but you're going to have to be compulsive if you want to be president of the Junior League.&quot;

You have no idea!!!

Laura, those were very cute. :&gt;

When I was a child, I was permitted to wear white shoes on Easter Sunday to go with my Easter dress (hat, and gloves), but I had to put them back in the closet again until after Memorial Day.

&quot;but you're going to have to be compulsive if you want to be president of the Junior League.&quot;

&quot;You have no idea!!!&quot;

Ain't that the truth. (I had my own brief &quot;brush with death&quot; with the Jr Leaguers of Wilmington.)

btw, glad to see this getting back to the light-hearted side...

laurafromtexas

Love the Southern Belle Primer! The year it came out I received three copies as Christmas presents.

Remember the tale of the girl who didn't get in the Junior League because she put dark meat in her chicken salad?

Byrd (from Alabama)

Byrd, indeed I do! For those of y'all in the dark, here it is: &quot; 'Tacky' is a word you hear so often from Southern belles, it is almost their national anthem. 'Tacky' is used to comment on why some women don't make certain social circles, why some marriages are considered doomed to failure, why some new stores just aren't going to be patronized. Asked to explain further, most belles simply say, 'It's just too tacky to talk about.' But when pressed, a Tennessee woman said she remembers a Chattanooga newcomer who never did get asked to join the Junior League. 'The girls thought she was just too tacky,' the woman explained. 'What specifically was so tacky?' 'Well' -- the belle shrugged her shoulders and pursed her lips -- 'for one thing, she puts dark meat in her chicken salad.'&quot;

And, as a former board member of the Junior League, I feel qualifed to poke a little fun at myself:
Question: Why did the Junior League member have a colostomy?
Answer: So she could get a bag to match her shoes.

Laura, yer killin' me.

I think you should publish a collection of Junior Leaguer jokes - it would be a bestseller south of the M.D. line. :D

Around here, use of &quot;tacky&quot; used to be a lot more popular than it is now. &quot;Awful&quot; supplanted it for awhile.

As you know, &quot;awful&quot; is also multi-purpose. (I use that one a lot in reference to my husband - who is quite a card - as in, &quot;You are so AWFUL!&quot; He is also &quot;a mess.&quot;)

&quot;Dreadful&quot; now - that is just the ultimate. As in, &quot;that girl he is dating is just dreadful.&quot; No one wants to be on the receiving end of that one... :O

Jr. League activity sounds harder and more intense than being the Sodality chairman. LOL!

laura, I especially like #4 &amp; #5

If anyone out there has some good zingers for piercings, and you will let me borrow them, please let them roll.

I have a plethora of individuals who can't understand what the safety pin through their eyebrow is going to do to their job prospects.

JJ5 -- they'll figure it out eventually, my sister had something through her eyebrow until her toddler discovered it and reacted just how you'd except a toddler to react to a bright shiny thing, needless to say that toodler is now nine, and nothing has appeared in her eyebrow since. Oh, and during a younger time in my life, I had a little something through my nose, now I don't ;)

The piercing thing seems to be great if you want to work in a coffee shop...

Yes, Diana, it's been &quot;awfully&quot; fun conversing with you! I've had an &quot;awful&quot; good time.

I think that the reason southerners and midwesterners are more aware of regional differences is that most all of the news media comes out of New York. When its hot in NY its hot everywhere. If they're called sneakers in NY their called sneakers everywhere. If its normal in NY its normal everywhere. And here's my favorite, If a national real-time broadcast is announced to be on at 8 PM it will be on at 8 PM everywere. How self-centric can you get?

&quot;New York is the greatest city in the world&quot;, &quot;Times Square is the crossroads of America&quot;. This self centered attitude is known to everyone except people who live in NY and the &quot;The tri-state area&quot;. They don't even know that most states have a tri-state area! When I was a Child I thought that I lived in the only tri-state area.

I think that all news media should be based in a centralized area (socially and physically) in St. Louis. Gateway to the west from the east, and half way up the Mississippi. Its neither north, south, east or west, but is the true Crossroads of America.

BTW, I live many hundreds of miles away from St. Louis, so don't think that I'm plugging St. Louis because I live there.

I'd love to join the Junior League but just can't seem to pass the physical.

Well, Seamus, I hate to correct you, but I have it on good authority that the REAL reason you've been blackballed is because you not only put &quot;awful&quot; dark chicken in your chicken salad, but mixed in that &quot;dreadful&quot; Miracle Whip to boot. By the way, I was sick about missing the recent San Antonio GTG, but saw your photo afterwards online and I must say that you look absolutely &quot;precious.&quot;

MIRACLE WHIP!!!

Now, I AM getting the vapors... @-)

NO! Not Miracle Whip!

Any good southern cook worth her salt knows that you use Duke's Mayo.

NOT MIRACLE WHIP!!

The horrors!

I'm feeling faint.

Over on the southern cookbook thread (and I should post there) someone mentioned a tv chef who uses COOL WHIP. Ugg, how did that person get a tv show. Cool Whip should be banned.

I haven't read the Junior League book but I agree about the chicken salad. I don't like the chicken salad a xxx because it has dark meat in it. I guess I'm eligible for membership now.

Having been a member of two JLs, both south of the MD line, i was horrified to realize that there was actually something other than all white meat chicken salad (mmmm... try double white meat fried chicken salad in Opalousas, LA!!). No offense, but i quit when they a)quit having interview luncheons for candidates, and b) let a gal in from the &quot;wrong side of the tracks&quot; because of her job, not her volunteer work!

and to think, I had never heard of Junior League until this thread.

Nonononoooo!! Not Duke's. It's always Blue Plate Mayonaise.

It's obvious you all are not from Kentucky. Here you put on your white shoes after Derby Day (first Saturday in May for the uninitiated).

JJ5 your grasp of logic is so loose that I'm not surprised you giggle a lot. With a couple of exceptions (notably jorr), have never seen such a good example of Q.E.D. as this thread, but go for it ladies; just don't complain if Yankees make jokes about you you don't like.

Having been a provisional member of three different Junior Leagues (finally going active in Clearwater, FL and serving on that board for several years), I can say with confidence that &quot;tacky&quot; is regional:

You are tacky in New York City if you pronounce the &quot;t&quot; in the word &quot;often.&quot;

You are tacky in St. Louis if you don't go to church.

You are tacky in Florida if you wear a swimsuit to the supermarket. :-D

There's the real South, the south of some novels and movies, and then there's Florida, which is New York, New Jersey, and parts of Canada all dislocated on the (mainly) southern half of the state. So when any of the posters refers to Florida as a southern state, t'ain't so.

Back at the original question: Rules for visiting the REAL south should include knowing some of the more meaningful and colorful expressions like:
-&quot;Purt' near,&quot; meaning almost.
-&quot;Right smart,&quot; meaning a lot or many.
-&quot;Dark thirty,&quot; a very meaningful expression to describe that time right after dark.
-&quot;a mess,&quot; in this case meaning enough food or fresh vegetables for the person(s) receiving it. &quot;Mizz Lizzie brung me a mess o' greens yestiddy.&quot;
-&quot;done,&quot; meaning already. &quot;I'm done finished.&quot;
-&quot;a piece,&quot; meaning a distance that isn't too far. &quot;He lives down the road a piece.&quot;
-&quot;a hissy,&quot; meaning a fit of anger. &quot;She threw a real hissy.&quot;
-&quot;conniption,&quot; also meaning a fit of anger. &quot;She had a conniption when she heard about him cheatin' on her.&quot; Note that you THROW a hissy, but you HAVE a conniption.
-&quot;aim,&quot; meaning to plan. &quot;I aim to take a vacation next y'ar.&quot;
-&quot;airy,&quot; meaning none. &quot;He ain't got airy a penny to his name.&quot;
-&quot;didn't go to,&quot; meaning didn't intend to. &quot;He didn't go to hurt ya.&quot;
-&quot;gander,&quot; meaning to look or stare.
-&quot;fixin' to,&quot; meaning getting ready to. &quot;I was just fixin' to leave.&quot;
-&quot;allow,&quot; meaning to state or explain. &quot;He allowed as how he was broke.&quot;
-&quot;plum,&quot; meaning completely. &quot;He is plum broke.&quot;
-&quot;wrench,&quot; meaning to rinse. &quot;She wrenched the clothes clean.&quot;

I should stop. These things keep popping into my mind.

Wayne, That &quot;allow&quot; term is something I have never heard of.

Jorr - I'll allow that I've heard it that way, but only from my suthrun extended relations (note: the Southerners I know never have &quot;relatives,&quot; just relations).

You betchall never hear &quot;allow&quot; used like that up here in our beloved Minnesota.

Back to that wonderful &quot;Bless your heart&quot;: It has as many meanings as there are tones of voice, I've found. My favorite is when my 92-year-old Mizzuruh-bred grandma uses it to express exactly what the words say. My next favorite is when it's used to cat it up: &quot;That dress! Well, she must not know that it makes her look like a tramp, bless her heart.&quot; Fabulous!

All you Junior Leaguers - any insight into the Daughters of the American Revolution? I qualify but have never become a member. Will I have to throw out half my chicken and the Miracle Whip if I join?

Worktowander - I'm too tacky to for the JL but I guess I could get in the DAR if I applied. Our KY DAR is headquartered in Duncan Tavern in Bourbon County KY. Since one of my ancestors portraits is hanging there (she was one ugly woman,bless her heart)I'm sure they would have to let me in. I think my aunt's are members. There is an application on the KY website and I'm sure your state has one. You have to establish your lineage. http://www.kentuckydar.org/

Seamus - You probably didn't get in JL because you served your mint juleps in those tacky souvenir derby glasses from Churchill Downs instead of sterling julep cups. Ya'll can't be JL without julep cups. No plate or pewter allowed!

Diana - Thanks! I am printing your Raleigh list for my daughter. She plans on living in that area when she graduates from the yankee school she goes to way up north in Boston. She says she needs to thaw out a bit after 4 years of school in the frozen north.

Worktowander--about the DAR; my wife is a member and they mean it when they say you have to track your lineage precisely at least as far back as the revolutionary war. In her case, one of her family members had already made up a family heritage book that went all the way back to the 1400's in England. So she just copied what was there, and they shooed her in quicker'n you could wring a chicken's neck.