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Thankyou so much for remembering and letting me know about the Amano, kybourbon. Actually I ran into an entire case at this little neighborhood wine shop by our train station and bought it a couple of months ago. He is trying to get more for me and hasn't yet. That will hold me for quite a while as I have others, but I felt super lucky to have a supply.
But I do appreciate the FYI. And in Chicago if you call it soda where I come from, they might even give you an ice cream drink in certain shops or places like Steak & Shake. We all call it pop in my environs. |
I enjoy the ins and outs of things like what you call carbonated beverages and whether your tea will arrive with or without sweetening. They don't imply anything about how smart or stupid or good or bad the people of the area are.
Things like the "rules" bother me much more, because it's always a double-edged sword. A lot of Southerners take pride in keeping things simple, downhome, unpretentious; but they get incensed when they think Northerners assume Southerners are simple, homespun, and unsophisticated. Whoever wrote those rules not only had a lot of hostility upfront regarding Northern visitors, but he/she would also be very annoyed to be up North and hear the Yankees talking about those gravel roads, pickups with gun-racks, and greens and grits. Both Northerners and Southerners notice the differences and assume what's different is proof of something wrong with the "other" people and the environment. It's human nature BUT nothing entrenches those stereotypes like turning them into a joke, even at one's own expense. You can't have it both ways. |
C'mon, Cassandra (apt screen name!) - lighten up! One can, in fact, have it both ways - respect and humor are not mutually exclusive. It IS human nature to notice difference - probably vestigial from the days when the world outside the cave was a place truly unpredictable and full of potentially dangerous things. Today our spheres of operation have broadened enormously and as we travel we try to celebrate differences in the name of diversity, and a bit of humor (without fishing for deep, dark implications) goes a long way toward easing the inevitable social friction. In Freudian terms, "it's just a cigar."
Peace out, y'all! |
>It's human nature BUT nothing entrenches those stereotypes like turning them into a joke, even at one's own expense. <
Someone started a "deliberately bad advice" thread on the Europe forum which has predictably devolved into another round of stupid things Americans do in Europe. Cassandra seems to have no problem pandering those negative stereotypes. |
There is virtually zero parallel between this thread and that -- none (at least as I review that thread) of the bits of ironic and misleading advice are based in the idea that a culture or nationality is inferior or bizarre. Dissecting humor always kills it but the point of that thread is the trouble tourists can get into if they are clueless enough to follow obviously crazy advice.
Here is my post there, fyi: <i> Airport security agents everywhere have very boring days and love a good sense of humor. Always joke with them. People in weddings in European churches just love to have tourists take photos of them during the ceremony; be sure to use a flash to get the proper lighting. Most restaurants will be glad to bring you American-style ketchup, but you may have to tip them an extra Vermont quarter if they do. (And unfortunately, I saw this actually happen) : if 4 of you are traveling together, you can tell the B&B only two will be sleeping in the room and the other 2 will be camping in the car. Then in the morning, you can all 4 take turns using the hall shower and making a picnic out of the food put out for breakfast. </i> Another post says: <i>Waiters in Italy are notoriously slow in bringing the cheque. Don't fall for this ploy -- they're just trying to get you to order more vino. If your waiter isn't johnny-on-the-spot with your cheque the minute you finish your tiramisu, grab his attention with a few snaps of your fingers and don't leave him a tip. </i> In that case, the point is the necessary knowledge that Italian waiters do not bring the check until asked, not -- clearly -- a stereotype of what Italians are like. I don't think that thread panders and recommend it for some good giggles if you want someone to "lighten up." |
I think Rockhopper's point is that the whole "bad advice" thread makes fun of American tourists -- presumably by other American tourists who know better.
But in fairness nothing about that thread implies that it's always or only American tourists who can be clueless enough to follow lousy advice -- I've seen poor "guest" behavior from just about any nationality, myself. And most of the bad advice on that thread (it is pretty funny) is so far into the realms of the utterly absurd that it really doesn't read like the "rules" here which do seem to have a grudge behind them. |
The point of the "bad advice" thread is the trouble tourists can get into if they are clueless enough to follow obviously crazy advice? I don't think so.
Most of it is just another rehash of the stereotypical dumb American abroad jokes. Samuel Clemens has nothing to worry about. |
This has been buggin' me for a year at least . . .
What is the other meaning of "Bless Your Heart?" I've seen it mentioned here before that it has a "hidden meaning" and I've always wondered what it was! Will somebody clue me in??????? |
Rockhopper may be the one wno needs to lighten up.
But yes, please, what is the "other" meaning of "Bless Your Heart" -- I've been wondering about that for a while. Is it that said one way, "bless your heart" means "well, thank you, you're a nice person for doing/saying that," and said in another context it means, "oh, dear, dear, dear, you really are kind of simpleminded aren't you?" |
About half of the OP's rules also apply in rural Minnesota. I live on a "gravel road". BTW, We are also northerners. We call anything from Maine to Georgia the East Coast. Florida is Florida. the "South" is Florida to Texas, not just the S.E. states. I lived in the South for several years. San Antonio. One thing that I did observe about the south is that they don't want to here about the north. Also, Texans consider any state from Washington to Maine as being The North, and Canadians are from another continent almost. Many don't have a clue about Canada.
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Agreed. A lot of things on the list refer to rural living rather than southern living. Someone who lives in rural Indiana (which is not the south) would have a lot more in common with these points than a city dweller in Atlanta, New Orleans, Savannah, etc.
Anyone on the "bless your heart" thing? |
Since I brought up "Bless your heart."
Sometimes a person is in trouble and could use extra blessings. (meaining #1) Sometimes a person is very troubling and the person saying "bless your heart" learned from a young age to not use 'bad' language. So the person in trouble will get 'blessed out'. (meaing #2). So, even though the phrase is the same, it has two, completely opposite meanings. |
Goodness, I turns out I didn't know either meaning!! When I've heard it used it has always been said like a compliment for doing something nice for someone else. Like if you help someone who needs a hand another person would say, "well bless your heart." The things we all learn on Fodors!!
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Well, we're up to 3 meanings now.
Please feel free to add more. |
To me, "Bless Your Heart" means:
You are completely insane and have no idea of what you've just done or are about to do. Example: Someone says to me, "I'm going sky diving!". I say,"Bless your heart honey". Meaning, "Are you out of what passes for your mind????". |
I've always taken the double meaning to be as Go just said. A dubious negative connotation coupled with a positive and mannerly audio result. Always with the undertone of being "above" the matter or activity of yours being discussed.
Kind of like when you look at a little girl playing makeup that has it all over the places make up isn't supposed to appear- and the grandmother says, "Well, aren't YOU the glamour girl." And I disagree about several politically correct guidelines discussed here. I respect their opinion and it is the one taught today BUT humor breaks barriers and you CAN have it two ways. Shakespeare knew it for sure. A stereotype is not particularly a bad thing and has gotten a hell of a beat up meaning in the last 20 years. Lions have teeth, claw, fur but they are not kitty cats. If we don't know about "lion-ness" we don't understand that. We all have to interpret our world through sterotypes. If an infant does not learn that essence, it does not survive because it has to re-know each situation as it occurs. Jokes about and comparing the we/ them are break downs of many of the negatives we have about each other- regardless of the tone, sometimes even the "mean" ones. You can't block out what you get to know. And then you do get to KNOW the other as people, individuals when they start to communicate after the fact of the joke. Thanks again, Seamus. |
As a real Southern girl from Mississippi, I loved your “when visiting the South” rules, Seamus! I live on the Mississippi Gulf Coast now, but was raised in a rural community just north of here, dairy farming country. I have also lived briefly over the years in Tewksbury, MA, San Francisco, CA, and San Antonio TX. So I have been exposed to several U.S. cultures.
May I add a couple of comments? A friend from “up north” visiting me remarked that this would never happen there: In downtown traffic, when cars are bumper to bumper, invariably someone will stop and wave to let you in line if you are on a side street trying to get on the main street. Also, down here, if you order a poboy or a hamburger in a restaurant, the first question will be “Would you like that dressed?” Meaning adding lettuce, tomato, and usually pickles. One lady from my home town epitomizes the Southern woman of a “certain age”. When someone, usually not from there originally, asks her a rude or a very personal question, instead of giving a rude answer or ignoring the person, she smiles sweetly and says slowly and kindly, “Why, Honey, I just think I don’t want to answer that.” And then she goes on like it never happened. Men age always open the door for ladies of any age, regardless of whether they know them, and would never dream it might offend someone. Children in small towns under twelve and sometimes older, address all adults as “Miss” or “Mister” when using their first name. My mother, a well known lady in town, was “Miss Betty” to everyone, young and old. Children also will never be heard answering a question with “Yeah”, or even “Yes or No”. It’s always a polite “No ma’am” or “Yes sir”. My grown son, now a successful business man in Atlanta, still pulls out my chair, calls me “Mother” instead of “Mom”, and says “Yes, ma’am” when answering a question I might ask. I am always “jolted” when I hear a child being rude to their parents! Or hear profanity from teenagers. Down here, I’m sure all teenagers do those things, but you won’t hear them saying “ugly words” in front of adults! Personally, I love being from here and living here. We also happen to have many educated, refined and cultured residents, but I’m sure people from “up north” who have never been here think all of us are like the stereotypes on TV and in the movies. We’ve learned to live with it. :-) Anyway, thanks for letting me put in my two cents worth. I ran across this site by accident and loved reading the posts. |
Sorry, I had "men of a certain age" and decided to delete the "of a certain age" since almost all men any age open doors. But I accidentally left in the "age", which didn't make sense.
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"In downtown traffic, when cars are bumper to bumper, invariably someone will stop and wave to let you in line if you are on a side street trying to get on the main street." That's pretty much expected here in the Chicago suburbs. To the point where people get a bit miffed if they're not let in.
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this is very funny... and so very true. I took I40 west... never looked back - never came back.
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Another take on the "bless your heart" phrase - often used at the tail end of a disparaging remark, rather like a linguistic antidote that lets a "fine, gentle southerner" get away with saying something downright mean and ornery - e.g., "he is just a totally useless idiot, bless his heart" or "she's nothing but a two-bit trollop, bless her heart"
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CAPH52 - it happens in the city too. I was running errands today (yay for I-Go car sharing so poor carless souls like me can go to Costco on occasion) and I was waved into to more than one traffic line, and on one occasion even allowed to turn left. For all the honking, we really are quite civilized ;)
I love the nuances of the southern phrase "bless your heart" I think I'll start using it to confuse my friends. |
I think there are some distinctions being completely lost here, all in the name of being "politically incorrect." For the record, that term was coined when a political analyst was astounded that a candidate would make ethnic jokes about Latinos, almost 20% of the vote in his district -- "flat stupid" as a Southerner would say. Now people are disparaging the very idea of sparing people from negative stereotypes, and I've heard so many really offensive comments that begin with "not to be politically incorrect, but ..."
And there's certainly a difference between calling a lion a kitty cat or a missile a "peacemaker," and considering all Southerners "mouth-breathin' Gomers" or all Northerners "rude sumbeetches." Also for the record, I've lived for 22 years in the Northeast, 13 years in the mid-Atlantic, 8 years in the Midwest, and the most recent 12 years in the South. So although what I'm about to say may qualify as generalization, it's based on experience, not stereotypes I've picked up from the media or other people. My experience is that Southerners are more conscious of regional differences and more ready to be annoyed at outsiders than others, but that's partly because the South has kept its rural character and being Southern as part of its self-definition and pride. In the rural Midwest, as others have noted, you'll hear the same kinds of complaints and comments about outsiders, but "outsiders" aren't defined as "Yankees" or "Northerners," just outsiders -- usually "yuppies." When I'm up north (specifically the Northeast), I note that people spend much less time talking about all those people who aren't Northerners -- which is certainly a form of provincialism, of course -- recently it's more about Red vs. Blue states if anything. But it really does rankle when I hear their condescending comments and jokes about the South that follow from the usual stereotypes, and usually from people who've never been to the South. And where do those negative Southern stereotypes come from? From "Andy Griffith" and Southern humor literature and joke-y lists like these, often written by Southerners themselves, usually with love and pride. But surprise surprise, when TV comedy writers want to indicate a character isn't quite brilliant or lacks sophistication, a Southern accent is now often what they use -- and voila, the "Gomer" image. The divisiveness in the US has worsened markedly in recent decades, and it pains me to hear either Northerners or Southerners "traffic in" observations that just deepens the sense of difference, especially when the chips on shoulders seem to be getting heavier and heavier. As for Shakespeare, he was a great writer but not above using cultural difference to "code" something (like the Southern accent to indicate a dullard) about incidental characters -- but what made him great was the richness in his main characters like Iago and Shylock that transcended stereotyping and delved into individuality. OK, time to end the morning lecture -- I'm worn out and probably put everyone else back to sleep. Peace. |
Cassandra,
I just want to say that was an extremely insightful and well-written post. I share most - if not all - of your sentiments. The problem for me as a Southerner is a (perceived) lack of empathy people have for us as our region becomes inundated with people moving here. I live in Raleigh, and we have been on every "Top Ten" places list you can think of. We've seen tens of thousands of people move into the area every year and badly tax our infrastructure. I'm from Wilmington, NC - which has seen a 20% increase in population since 2000. It's almost impossible to get around town without a major hassle now. I've made many 1000's of posts on fodors.com, and 99% of them (I hope) are helpful and non-judgemental. I have to say, though, that it is extremely irritating to me to have people expect for we who live here to find all of this recent growth "enlightening" and be appreciative, when we are essentially watching the lifestyle we have enjoyed disappear under a glut of incoming crowds. How pompous is it to think that an influx of a certain geographic group of people will "improve" things? I recently got into a fracas with another poster because I took offense to a comment she made about a part of this state she found too "rural." She protested vociferously (a little TOO much if you ask me) that she did not mean it in a bad way. Maybe she didn't, but something about her comments irked my liver. It was like, here we go again, someone who will move here and whine about the heat and lack of "culture." If people who come here or are making comments might try a little harder to see things from our point of view, (bless their hearts) we would ALL be able to get along better. |
Amen Diana. Very nicely put.
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Everything is a Coke, unless its an RC. If its pop, you're from the MW, if its soda, you're from way up North.
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Seamus, I've heard people say things like "what a two-faced litty (bleep), bless his/her heart" I guess with a little bit of sugar, even the bitter sounds sweet.
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Diana.. I wasn't aware Raleigh was on the top 10 of anything anymore... Typically, the lists I've read in the last few years, it isn't even the best place in NC. I think you can have some peace of mind... most folks are figuring it out - and moving elsewhere.
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"I wasn't aware Raleigh was on the top 10 of anything anymore"
Guess you need to do more reading Julie... (Glad I-40 west worked out well for you.) Raleigh/Durham is ranked the 4th "best city for singles" (Forbes) Raleigh/Durham is listed among the 9 leading "biotechnology centers" in the US (Brookings Institute) Raleigh is ranked the #2 Best Place to Live and Work (Employment Review) Raleigh is ranked #4 in the Metropolitan New Economy Index Also ranked: #1 for degrees granted in science and engineering #1 for academic R&D funding #5 for access to venture capital #3 for access to high-tech jobs (Progressive Policy Institute) Raleigh is ranked #8 Most Wired City Also ranked: #3 for percentage of households using the Net, #4 for broadband use and interest (Yahoo! Internet Life) Raleigh is ranked #1 " Best Place to Live-Southern Region;" (Money) Raleigh is ranked #3 Liveliest City for the Elderly (Modern Maturity) Raleigh is ranked #3 " Best City in the Nation for Entrepreneurship" (Entrepreneur) Raleigh is ranked #4 Best City to Start and Grow a Company;" (Inc.) RTP is the largest research park in the United States Source: http://www.nceita.org/resources/nctechstats.asp (But what do Forbes, Money, and Inc. know - bless their hearts...) |
Julie_Colorado,
If only that were true. The area keeps getting high rankings for best place to have a business, best place to raise a family, best place for singles, etc. I wish the chambers of commerce would stop submitting answers. I'm not sure when you left, but the area is growing faster than we can handle it. Usually 2,000 to 3,000 new student each year in the Wake County schools. Buildings can't handle the growth and there is talk of forcing all kids on a year-round schedule where there would be different sessions so the schools could handle more students without trailers. Also talking about 2 different class days (morning schools roughly 7-12 and then afternoon school 1-6). Wake County is having the most growth, but Johnston County (Clayton, Smithfield) is one of the fastest growing counties in the state because the homes are more 'affordable' than Wake County or if you want some land with the house. FV is now considered an acceptable drive to downtown Raleigh or RTP. When homes in Mebane (west of Hillsborough) are in the $280,000s (golf course community) you know growth is out of hand. |
Oh Diana... bless yer heart...
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Oh, and by the way, what Money had to say was 34th in the country... (most recent survey which I read the day I got it)... Perhaps hasn't hit TV or radio yet... but stay tuned...
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More info for you Julie. (Let me know when I should stop...) You are just the sweetest thing to want to know all of this. ((k))
Raleigh Ranks Right On Top RALEIGH, N.C. (June 2005) -- North Carolina’s Capital City area certainly makes the grade when it comes to positive accolades. Over the past five years, numerous third parties have praised Raleigh for its quality of life, excellent education, entertainment options and business climate. After all, Raleigh embodies, “City Life, Carolina Style.” Among Raleigh’s most notable accolades: Meeting #20 Expo's Top 25 Bargain Destinations Expo, July/August 2004 #3 Cost-Effective Location for Corporate Meetings GetThere, December 2003 #10 Successful Meetings 10 to Watch Successful Meetings, December 2003 Lifestyle # 4Best City for Singles Forbes Magazine, July 2005 #17 Best Place for Running in the United States Runners World, July 2005 #8 Places for Wireless Connections Intel, June 2005 Five Star Quality of Life Metro (Raleigh-Cary) Expansion Management, April 2005 Top 50 Five Star City for Quality of Life (Raleigh-Cary) Expansion Management, March 2005 #4 Best City for Dating (Raleigh-Durham, NC) Sperling's Best Places, May 2004 #4 City That Rocks Esquire Magazine, April 2004 Hottest Town in the East (Cary, NC) Money Magazine, January 2004 #6 Most Fun City Cranium, January 2004 #1 College Town (Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill) – Tier II USA TODAY, August 2003 #10 Lowest Rents-CBD Expansion Management, August 2003 #1 Best Place to Live MSN House & Home, July 2003 #1 Best Place to Live & Work Employment Review Magazine, June 2003 #9 Best City for Singles Forbes Magazine, June 2003 #3 Best Place to Reinvent Your Life AARP Magazine, May/June 2003 #10 Low-Stress City (Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, NC) Sperlings Best Places, 2003 Top 20 Best Urban Trails (Raleigh's Umstead Park) Runner's World, October 2001 #4 Healthiest Metro Area in the US Demographics Daily, June 2001 #2 Best Place to Live and Work Employment Review, June 2001 Education #2 Most Educated City US Census Bureau-American Community Survey, 2003 (Released April 2005) #2 Best Public Education System (Raleigh-Cary) Expansion Management, April 2005 #2 Most Educated City US Census Bureau-American Community Survey, 2002 (Released May 2004) #6 Best Public School System Expansion Management’s MSA Education (Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill MSA) Quotient Rankings, April 2004 2005 National Superintendent of the Year American Association of School (Bill McNeal, Wake County Public Schools) Administrators, 2004 #3 Best Education In The Biggest Cities Forbes, February 2004 (Wake County Schools) Gold Ribbon School District – Wake County Expansion Management, December 2003 # 2 Best Place for Education Forbes Magazine, June 2003 #1 Best City for Education Places Rated Almanac, Millennium Edition Business #7 Top Metro for Scientists & Engineers per capita (Raleigh-Cary) Expansion Magazine, May 2005 #10 Top Metro for University Spending (Raleigh-Cary) Expansion Magazine, May 2005 # 7 Best Educated Workforce (Raleigh-Cary) Expansion Magazine, May 2005 #2 Best Place for Business and Careers (Raleigh-Durham, NC) Forbes, May 2005 #4 Best City for Entrepreneurs and Small Business Gold Guide Rankings, May 2004 Top Five Most Innovatiove Entrepreneurial Regions (Raleigh) US Small Business Administration, April 2005 #8 High Tech City (Raleigh) Popular Science, Febrauary 2005 #5 Best City for Economic Dynamism Gold Guide Rankings, May 2004 #2 Best Place for Business (Raleigh-Durham, NC) Forbes, May 2004 #1 City with the Happiest Workers Hudson Employment Index, March 2004 #3 High Value Labor Market Quotient 2005 Expansion Management, March 2004 #6 Least Expensive Midsize Metro Area for Businesses KPMG LLP, February 2004 #1 Hottest Job Market (Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, NC) Business 2.0, March 2004 #4 Top State for New Business Sites and Facilities Plants Sites and Parks, January 2004 #13 Hottest Cities (Raleigh-Durham, NC) Expansion Management Magazine, January 2004 #11 Choice City for Biotechnology Business Development Outlook, December 2003 #9 Hottest Job Growth Market 2003-2013 Business 2.0, September 2003 #7 High Value Labor Market Quotient 2003 Expansion Management, July 2003 #4 Top High-Tech City Business Facilities, May 2003 #9 Best City for Corporate Headquarters Business Facilities, April 2003 #3 Best Place for Business and Careers Forbes Magazine, May 26, 2003 #10 Real Estate Market Expansion Management, August 2002 #3 in New Biotechnology Companies in the 1990's. Signs of Life: The Growth of the Biotechnology Centers in the US. Brookings Institute, June 2002 Top 60 Cybercity Site Selection Magazine, March 2002 #2 City in the US for Relocation Expansion Management, January 2002 #3 Hottest Metro Plants, Sites & Parks, March 2002 Fastest Growing State in Venture Capital Investment Plants, Sites & Parks, January 2002 5-Star Ranking for Best Economic Metro Demographics Daily, January 2002 #1 Fastest Growing Local Online Population Nielson/Netratings Report, February 2003 #3 Highest Mobile Phone Penetration Telephia Report, February 2003 #5 for access to venture capital Progressive Policy Institute, April 2001 #3 for access to high-tech jobs Progressive Policy Institute, April 2001 #8 Most Wired City Yahoo! Internet Life, March 2001 #3 for percentage of households using the Net Yahoo! Internet Life, March 2001 #4 for broadband use and interest Yahoo! Internet Life, March 2001 #7 State (NC) for New Facilities/Expansions in 2000 Site Selection, March 2001 #4 Best City to Start and Grow a Company in Now Inc., December 2000 #3 Best City in the Nation for Entrepreneurship Entrepreneur, October 2000 #6 for Directory Density (sites per 1000 capita) Yahoo! Internet Life, March 2000 #5 for Hosts Per Capita Yahoo! Internet Life, March 2000 #6 Hottest City Expansion Management, January 2000 |
At risk of introducing another platitude - that's why they make chocolate AND vanilla. On the Europe board, I guess that would be something like <<chaucune a son gout>>...
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I heard that down south, when a couple get divorced, that they still remain brother and sister.
Can that really be true???? |
-- Only in West Virginia, and it's not a CSA State.
-- If your parents say it's true. |
"-- If your parents say it's true."
=D> |
Diana... you can keep going... as long as you wish.. I lived there 12 years. I may know more than someone that filled in a survey for 2 weeks. Then again, perhaps I don't.
When I see a white woman refuse to take money from a black man (she worked in the gas station - he was a customer)... or have an attendant at a state park tell me I should leave because the park was "full a them black people today"... or when a white girl in our neighborhood had a cross burned on her lawn because she went to the prom with a black classmate... then I just don't care what the survey's say. And I just don't believe the "oh bless our hearts - we're so friendly" stuff the south tries to sell. I find it heartbreaking - and well worth the price of gas to leave. |
"When I see a white woman refuse to take money from a black man (she worked in the gas station - he was a customer)... or have an attendant at a state park tell me I should leave because the park was "full a them black people today"... or when a white girl in our neighborhood had a cross burned on her lawn because she went to the prom with a black classmate... then I just don't care what the survey's say. And I just don't believe the "oh bless our hearts - we're so friendly" stuff the south tries to sell. I find it heartbreaking - and well worth the price of gas to leave."
While I have no doubt that you may have experienced the things you wrote about, I am a bit puzzled unless the 12 years you lived here were during the 1960's or you lived in a very small town. I've lived here all my life and have experienced no incidents like the ones you described. (In fact, I can only think of racist jokes or comments made by boorish people of various geographic persuasions as opposed to the blatant situations you've mentioned.) I'm not saying things like that haven't and don't happen here, but what I AM saying is that the South certainly has no monopoly on racists. Glad you're happier where you are now... As far as the white woman not taking money from a black man, that seems a bit odd since we have so many African Americans here, I would imagine she would have to do that many times a day if that is her custom, and I also imagine word of that would spread fast. I don't know (m)any people who condone that type of behavior... |
they happened in Raleigh (and general area) in the late 90s. The woman was in a gas station in Apex... The man at Falls lake (the Durham entry, not the Creedmor one). I wish I could make this stuff up - as it really is unbelieveable.
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