Round trip from Chicago
 

Greetings,
a friend of mine and I are planning our another trip to the United States. This time we've picked Chicago as a starting point.
So, we have some 16-17 days from mid-October till early November 2014.
We'd like to spend about 3-4 days in Chicago and make a trip by rented car to the neighboring cities/states. At the point we've worked out the following preliminary itinerary:
1 day - from Chicago to Cleveland
2 day - Cleveland. By the way, will the Rock'n'roll hall of Fame be interesting for those who are not big fans of clasic rock of 60-70's but are buffs of heavy music of 80's?
3 day - from Cleveland to Buffalo
4 day - hotel in Buffalo, trip from Buffalo to Niagara Falls and back
5 day - from Buffalo to Pittsburgh
6 day - from Pittsburgh to Columbus
7 day - Columbus
8 day - from Columbus to Indianapolis via Cincinnati(short tour through the city)
9 day - Indianapolis
10 day - from Indianapolis to Saint Louis
11 day - St. Louis
12 day - from St. Louis back to Chicago
13, 14, 15, 16 days - Chicago
The itinerary, as I said, is pretty raw and honestly I'm not sure it's the best possible one at all. We've never been midwest before and have very vague idea of the area. Suppose the nature in October must be great over there, right?
I (unlike my friend) have some qualms about St. Louis and Pittsburgh.. Maybe we should better visit Detroit instead? On the flip side I hear Detroit has fallen into decay recently and become not too safe city for tourists at all. True?
Also I've heard that Milwaukee offers the best beer in the USA. Is it worthwhile driving there almost 100 miles from Chicago to spend a night?
So, all in all, we still have more questions than answers concerning the journey)
The principal goal is to see as much of everything as possible and snag at least a couple of the NHL games)))
I'll appreciate a lot your advice/critics/suggestions on the subject.
Look forward to your feedback. Thank you.
P.S. Or maybe we better forget about Niagara Falls and head to Minnesota right from Chicago? (just occur to me looking at the map :))

You might want to take a deeper look at some of the cities that you have selected to see if there is something there that you are interested in. There is a thread about Pittsburgh that looked like there are some interesting things to do in the downtown area. To me Niagara Falls is a big carnival with the Falls. I could not see spending more than a few hours there.

I am from just outside Detroit. Detroit is safe as long as you have some common sense. Don't go down a back alley or into an obvious crack house, just as in any other city. Most are not near places you would go. The Henry is the Henry Ford Museum and is not in Detroit but nearby Dearborn. Great exhibits about history. There is The Detroit Institue of Arts and across the street is the Detroit Historical Museum. Motown has a museum. And of course you many be able to catch a Red Wing game.

I have never been to Columbus or Cleveland so I cannot comment on them.

A couple of notes about Niagara Falls:

Make sure you have a visa that allows multiple entries into the US since by far the most/best attractions are on the Canadian side - and missing it would to me ruin the trip

Note that you may not be able to take a car rented in the US into Canada - ask in advance if this is allowed and be sure the insurance is valid

Agree that I might not go to all of the places you have listed - but since you are so close head to Toronto which is a wonderful city (barely more than an hour from the Falls)

If you cannot go all the way to Toronto you might consider the short and pretty drive up to Niagara-on-the-Lake which is a charming place to visit.

Thank you gardendiva for your feedback. Ford museum sounds interesting. And Red Wings undoubtedly one of the most respected and oldest teams in the nhl and we'd love to see it in our own eyes. And since the situation over there is not that bad I guess we should get back to pondering over including Detroit in the journey. Thank you

Unfortunately we don't have no Canadian visas, so we even didn't plan to cross the border. Is there no sense just to see the waterfall from american side?

I don't believe you need to show passports or visas to ride in the Maid of the Mist boat. http://www.pressherald.com/news/nati...mpetitor_.html
Do check into this.
No need to spend much time there after the boat ride.
After you turn in the car in Chicago you could take a day trip on a Hiawatha train to Milwaukee. You can return the same day or come back on an early train the next day.

Milwaukee was THE beer city at one time, but now the name of the game is craft beers, microbreweries, and brewpubs. You will find these all over the map, sometimes in unexpected places. Microbreweries in Cleveland, Akron, and Columbus, Ohio, have received acclaim for their beers. While Chicago itself has some good beer, even Munster, Indiana(!) and Kalamazoo, Michigan(!!) have excellent breweries.

About the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum, there are quite a few acts from the '80's in the Hall: Kiss, Black Sabbath, the Police, GunsNRoses, AC/DC, Aerosmith, etc., etc. Have a look at their website so you can decide for yourself whether it would interest you. http://www.rockhall.com/

Oh dear. You've picked a tour of mostly industrial cities. So if that's what you enjoy doing, add Detroit and you'll be in heaven. However, for my taste (as a former resident of the Midwest), I'd try again. It's also see how your reference to starting in Minnesota fits in with the rest of this.

It would be better to tell us what you all enjoy doing besides driving and where you've been before in the United States. Do you want to see all cities? Do you want to see some leaf color--if so late October is pretty late for that in the Midwest. Do you want a mix of stuff?

As indicated in earlier comments, I would add Detroit to this for the Ford Museum and Greenfield Village in nearby Dearborn, the Art Museum, and maybe the Motown Museum to broaden your musical tastes. If you are sports fans in general and not just hockey fans, you MAY be able to get tickets to a college football game. University of Michigan in Ann Arbor has a huge stadium, and I understand that they've been having trouble selling tickets this year. College football is also played in Columbus, Ohio, and in many other college towns throughout the midwest.

A couple of other suggestions for things my wife and I have either done or would like to do:

1. Drive to Minneapolis then go down the Mississippi River to New Orleans and back (or drop the car and fly back). We've done that (although not on the same trip) and it's a blast.

2. Take Route 66 "from Chicago to L.A." (as the song goes). Then depending on the weather, you could come back across the Great Plains or on 1-10, or, again, drop the car and fly back. We've done the 1-10 part of this, and have talked about Route 66 for years but haven't done the whole thing.

"College football is also played in Columbus, Ohio..."
This may be the understatement of the year. :D

I love Chicago and am glad you have chosen to visit. However, most of the other cities you have on your itinerary are ones, quite frankly, that I avoid. They are industrial cities. After Chicago, there are so many other wonderful places to visit in the US. Minneapolis is a great place to visit. And there are lovely areas outside of Chicago and Minneapolis where you could go.
Add Madison and Door County ,WI for example. And from Chicago's airports you can access most of the US quite easily.

This is a Rust Belt itinerary and I'm not sure why you've chosen it nor why you've chosen that time of year considering the weather will be starting to get cold to nasty.

<<On the flip side I hear Detroit has fallen into decay recently and become not too safe city for tourists at all.>>

Detroit has not fallen into decay recently, it has been a dump for decades and is getting worse. St. Louis is also a pit.

Cleveland's most famous nickname is "the Mistake by the Lake" and is as well known for industrial disasters (the burning Cuyahoga River [inspiration for R.E.M. song Cuyahoga], the East Ohio Gas Co. explosion - see Don Robertson's The Greatest Thing Since Sliced Bread) as for anything else. The R&R HOF area is fine but it's still a rust belt city.

Buffalo is endeavoring to rebuild its downtown and obtain tech companies, but it's a Rust Belt town with shrinking population and brutal weather. Pittsburgh has lost momentum in its own renaissance too as shown by the lack of demand to go there and the excess capacity at its once very nice airport.

At least Madison and Minneapolis are nice. Kentucky has its Bourbon Trail and will have good fall colors.

And you cannot tell what city in the US has the "best" beer. The increasing numbers of microbreweries throughout the country has revolutionized the U.S. beer market and the notion that Milwaukee has the "best" beer in the US is nuts (it still produces Old Milwaukee, aka Old Swill, MGD 64, Pabst, Schlitz, Milwaukee's Best and other nationally marketed rubbish).

First of all, I'd like to thank everybody who responded.
Friends, you really gave me food for thought, I guess we should rethink our itinerary.
So far I almost convinced to leave out Buffalo and Niagara Falls out of the trip. There's still a big temptation to visit Rock and Roll hall of Fame in Cleveland, but from what I understand there's the only attraction over there....
Will not go to St. Louis either...

dwdvagamundo,
what we enjoy besides driving... It looks like easy question but it's kind of hard to give exact answer. Nothing special actually - I like travelling in the USA cause it seems the country is made for travelling))) I've been so far to San Francisco, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, flew to Grand Canyon, been to a lot of places in Florida (including Key West, Miami, Tampa, Orlando, etc), NYC, Washington DC, Phila...
For instance, my friend is an avid angler (he'd love to do some fishing on Lake Erie or some other scenic lake). I'm more of an urban guy, I like cities, especially downtowns with skyscrapers and stuff.
We also don't plan going to any art museums, galleries, etc.
As for your suggestion of visiting a football game - unfortunatelly we even don't know the rules, moreover we're got used to another game called football)))
But being admirers of the NHL we certainly should catch 2-3 games.
As for driving all the way down to New Orleans - originally I came up with the idea, but my friend has turned it down flatly, said he wants only "taste the spirit of northern states" this time
As for taking Route 66 - I've already seen the pole "end of route 66" in Santa Monica, so I consider this path travelled)))) (just kidding). Maybe next time.
And I'm not sure I quite understood your words about the weather - are the trees gonna be already naked by November in the area?
So now I tend to alter the itinerary a lot and turn my eyes to the northwest of Chicago. Twin cities do appeal to me even though I know almost nothing about them so far.
Planning my previous american journeys I read Frommer's guides, but this time I failed to find any of them on the chosen cities (except for Chicago). Do someone know good travel guides on Midwest?

By the way, nobody said nothing about Indianapolis and Columbus. I've heard somewhere that Indianapolis is the second only to Washington DC in terms of monuments and memorials. It doesn't matter much for me but sounds nice)

I appreciate all your responses and look forward to getting more of them

thank you

and how many days should one spend in Chicago itself to get to know the city well and see the most of its attractions? Do we need a car in Chicago or it's walkable city with good public transportation?

Well thank you, BigRuss, for setting Oleg'72 straight on the Rust Belt! Perhaps it is best suited to just flying over.

I agree that the timing of the trip isn't great for the Great Lakes region. However, there are still many things to see and do. For example, since his friend likes to fish, he can go out with a guide to catch gigantic salmon or trout (steelhead) in the Niagara River. And he and his pal can take in NHL games in Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Columbus, and/or St. Louis, depending on the schedules.

Oleg, you will not need a car to get around in most of Chicago.

Hi,

I have been to all of those cities except for central Columbus and central Cleveland, but I've been very <b>near</b> to each of those too.

While Chicago is a fine and convenient starting/ending point, I just wonder if you could select for yourself a <I>better</i> set of cities in the same general-ish area.

It wasn't too long ago that I read that <b>St. Louis (proper)</b> had been named <I>Most Dangerous City in America</i> (by SOME measure) (and that surprised me, for <I>East St. Louis (in a different state, even)</i> is generally thought to be more dangerous).

(maybe there was a population limit on whatever I read??)

Anyway, I can respect your interest in visiting Cleveland, for the music, and maybe Buffalo, for Niagara Falls... <b>Pittsburgh</b> is decent enough, and <b>Indianapolis</b> is worth seeing.

Cincinnati is fine, too... but what if you went more to the south, and included <b>Louisville</b>... and perhaps <I>Lexington</i>... maybe Charleston, which is pretty.

<b>The weather</b> could be of considerable concern and perhaps it is for that reason that the southern alternatives might be nice.

<b>Milwaukee</b>, which is very near to Chicago is another preferable city.

Also, you might be moving your path right along <I>too fast</i>... when to see fewer cities, but spend perhaps two nights in each, might better suit you.

It sounds like <b>hockey possibilities</b> might be more important to you than it seems. For an added one, you might even consider <b>Nashville</b>, which is a 4-hour drive from Indianapolis, and is a more touristy city than are many of those on your original list.

You'd still have <B>Chicago, Buffalo, and Pittsburgh</b> as hockey <I>possibilities</i>, and you could add Nashville to those.

I just experimented with something along the lines of what I've suggested here... in the way of a <I>mapped-out</i> itinerary (using online mapping service) and seeing the following cities <I>in order:</i>

<B>Chicago-Cleveland-Buffalo-Pittsburgh-Charleston-Nashville-Indianapolis-Chicago</b> and found it to be a very reasonable <b>1840 miles</b> and 27 hours of driving, <b>just for those bare-bones stops</b> (side trips extra).

That is next to nothing for somebody with two weeks. (I recall having once started and ended in Indianapolis, and driven 6000 miles in two weeks)

SO WHAT IF you contemplate spending 2 nights each in spots like Pittsburgh, Nashville (for hockey), and perhaps Indianapolis, (in addition to Chicago's 4 nights)?

Then maybe one night in spots like Buffalo, Charleston, and perhaps Louisville???

(just another consideration...)

(I can't remember if I was trying/wanting to say "two", or "too"... in that first line) (so I can't even say if I used the <i>wrong</i> word)

(but I get credit for <i>noticing</i> it)

Hello Dave, what time of the year is the best for the area? Is september better? I take it there's big difference in temperatures between september and late october, right? I don't want to be freezing there, cold weather is what we have more than enough in here where I live. At first we thought about going in September, but then changed our mind. But we still hoped it would be warm enough, we might have been mistaken. And yes, incessant rain and grey skies could spoil the impression... Need to think again...

Hi NorthwestMale,
Thank you for your reply. Frankly we didn't think about going that far southward (or rather we thought of going down to New Orleans, but denied afterwards). Anyway your route looks pretty interesting, we need to think of it.

Late Oct and early Nov can easily be cold weather and even snow is possible (we had substantial snow on Halloween in NYC a couple of years ago) and you will be further north and in colder weather for much of your original itinerary. Also it will be getting dark very early so long driving days will be an issue.

Before heading to Niagara Falls check on the Maid of the Mist - to make sure it is still running - I think it shuts down for the season in late Oct.

In late September to mid-October the weather can be very pleasant in this region, and the trees will be showing off their colors. Last year, Chicago was actually quite warm during the daytime in the first week of October. NHL hockey season starts around then, too.

Your original itinerary is ridiculous. You'll be spending way too much time driving and not enough time in any one place. Narrow your list. Chicago is like New York or L.A. in that you could easily spend a week there. And if you want to catch a hockey game, well, the Blackhawks are pretty good.:) From Chicago, you could easily drive up to Milwaukee (or take the train) and then on to Minneapolis. Or rent a car and explore Wisconsin and Milwaukee.

Or, maybe, you go south after a week in Chicago. You could stop in Springfield (see the Abraham Lincoln library), then go to St. Louis for a few days (the Arch, a good zoo, Cardinals if they're still in season). And to whoever said St. Louis is a dump, I disagree.

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is excellent, by the way. You could easily fill a day there.

If your friend likes to fish, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan are all great for it. There are lots of lakes. This website might help, although there are lots more places in Michigan (my father was a fisherman) http://takemefishing.org/Components/...px#/bow/193573

Lake Erie is not a particularly scenic lake--don't know what it's like now, but for years it was considered a poster child for water pollution.

I think September would be a better bet and a route through Wisconsin and Michigan, generally along the shore of Lake Michigan, would be interesting that time of year.

The east end of Rt. 66 is at the intersection of Jackson Blvd. and Michigan Ave.
The Cleveland Browns stadium is right next to the R&R Hall of Fame on the lakefront in Cleveland. For a totally different view of Lake Erie, go to Presque Isle State Park on a peninsula outside Erie PA. If you are skipping Niagara Falls, head south from Erie to Pittsburgh.
The Warther sp? Whittling Museum in Dover Ohio is worth a visit.

Chicago is accessible with public transport. Not sure I'd have a car there until I'm ready to leave - it's relatively compact and therefore closer to NYC and Boston driving conditions than to someplace more spread out like Atlanta or Dallas.

St. Louis is the #3 city of 250K+ in the US by violent crime rate. Yes, East St. Louis is a known h-llhole, but St. Louis itself is a mess. Memphis is #4, Detroit is #1 and has been for years. Chicago is about #19 based on the available information (Chicago's data are incomplete): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._by_crime_rate

September would be better in that region. You should consider college football games on whatever Saturdays you'll be in the US. Ohio State (Columbus) would be the largest venue on your current trip and probably the best team because you won't venture into the deep south.

I don't know if anyone can come close to predicting the weather. Last year it got cold early. In the years prior it was still 60 degrees in late November. We have a saying in Michigan, "If you do not like the weather, wait 10 minutes because it is bound to change." If you move your time frame up by about a week you should be good. As someone mentioned, it does start to get dark about 6pm in that time frame.

I am still not clear as to what you like to do in big cities. Look at the Destination section for the cities that you have picked. It may give you an idea of what is actually there. I don't see anything of interest in Indianapolis or Columbus.

Just to give you an idea of distance, Chicago is about a 4.5 hour drive from Detroit and Detroit is about a 3.5 hour drive to Cleveland. Depending on how much time you like to sleep you could drive to Detroit, see The Henry Ford and catch a hockey game. The next day you could drive to Cleveland to see the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame, maybe something else or maybe your friend could fish. Then head back to another destination.

I have been to Chicago a few times. 4-5 days will just scratch the surface. One point of interest that I found on my last trip are the Pedways. There is a tunnel system under the city. I took a tour with Chicago's Finest Tours that was interesting but you have to book in advance.

Oleg, despite the negative stereotypes about Lake Erie that some cling to, it has rebounded and provides excellent opportunities for fishing and water sports. In mid-Sept to mid-Oct, perch are plentiful in the western basin, around the Erie Islands, and perch and walleye are caught in abundance in the central and eastern basins. Your friend should Google "Lake Erie fishing guide" for Port Clinton, Sandusky, Huron, Vermilion, Cleveland, Ashtabula OH, Erie PA, and Buffalo, NY, as well as "Lower Niagara River New York fishing guide" to see where he might be able to set up some trips. The lower Niagara trips in particular, fishing for king salmon, will probably require reservations well in advance.

Taking into account your advice we're trying to shift our leave from October to September. Last year NHL preaseason started mid-September, assume this year it's going to be pretty much the same. It's a pity we won't catch any of regular season games, but still a few of preseason ones can be caught.
Original itinerary has been refined a lot due to your critics, friends.
I guess only Cleveland (because of RNR HOF) and Indianapolis (just not to take the same route as from Chicago) will be kept.
Then we are gonna head towards Minneapolis.
There is no big cities en route from indianapolis to Minneapolis to spend a night. But there's a city of Des Moines. Could somebody tell me in a nutshell what kind of city is this? Worth a visit? Or maybe there is another preferrable way to get from Indianapolis to Minneapolis? It looks unreal (or at least very exhausting) to make this distance at one jump, so we seem to have to splitting it up into 2 days.

Dave, thank your for the names of the guides, i'll tell him

As a visitor, you won't need a car in Chicago. I would recommend a week there but, then, I really love the city. There are so many things for you to do and see.

Oleg,
I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you. But I think a big part of the problem is you don't seem to know the lay of the land. Example: You say there are "no big cities en route from Indianapolis to Minneapolis." If you're driving from Indianapolis, you're going right through Chicago. You'll then pass through Wisconsin. Madison (a nice college town) is along the way, and Milwaukee would be an easy detour. Des Moines is completely out of the way and (nothing against it) really not worth the detour. I'm not sure I understand the desire to see Indy, either. Again, a perfectly fine town but not a place I would think of as a vacation spot for someone from overseas.

If I were you, I'd fly to Cleveland and then drive to Indy before going on to Chicago, Wisconsin and Minneapolis. Another option might be to take the train to Milwaukee and Minneapolis after driving to Chicago.

Or, fly to Minneapolis and then make your way to Cleveland via Wisconsin, Chicago and Indy. As others said, you don't need a car in Chicago.

andrews98682,
Thank you for your reply. It's no wonder I might have been misunderstood or not clear cause my English is far from perfect))))
As for saying that there are no big cities going from Indianapolis to Minneapolis, I meant except for Chicago. But since we start from Chicago I guess there is no point in returning there in 3-4 days. Just because of that I was trying to find another route and Des Moines was the only big city (of course it involves some detour or rather quite a detour). Maybe it wasn't very good idea. Anyway I'm just pondering now, there is pretty much time before the vacation.
As for Indianapolis - you know, having visited the USA for a few times I mostly been to the touristy cities (Vegas, LA, NYC, Miami, etc.) and I assume it might be very interesting to spend a day and a half in a city off the beaten path. And according to you Indy is a perfectly fine town. How can we feel the spirit of the real America not visiting that kind of cities. Or am I mistaken?
As for Madison and Milwaukee - yes, we thought to go there as much, but on the way back from Minneapolis.

As for flying - it's definitely not an option for us especially given that we are gonna have some 12 hour flight with a stopover from home and expect the same flight back in 2 weeks)))))

Again, thanks to you and HappyTrvlr now I know that we don't need a car in Chicago so we can save a bit on a rental car and don't think about parking, traffic, being sober, etc. in Chicago

Here is what I would recommend and I do know the area very well.

At the very least 4 days in Chicago, no car needed. Get a CTA 3-4 day pass for any and all public transportation needs.
Take Amtrak to Milwaukee. Wonderful, fun city on the shores of Lake Michigan, just like Chicago but somewhat smaller. 2-3 days.
Rent a car at the end of your visit and head towards Door County. Beautiful, natural area with some great hotels, motels, resorts, also on the shores of Lake Michigan. This would be the "relaxing time". 2-3 days.
Drive up to Minneapolis. Great music city. wonderful, friendly city. 3-4 days
Drive down to Galena, IL. A historic town on the banks of Mississippi River. Fun, great arts and antique shopping, wonderful nightlife. 2-3 days
Then it's a short drive to Chicago.

Here is the map of the itinerary
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Chic...41.8781136!3e0

I did omit little more info.

Amtrak from Chicago to Milwaukee = ~$25pp one way.
Milwauke does not have a subway system (AFAIK) but their bus system will take you just about anywhere in the city and surrounding areas. The passes are ~$20pp.

Only when you're done with Milwaukee, rent a car and do the rest of the itinerary.

Have a great trip!

My own feedback as one living in Middle West until recent move to Boston area...original plan does look like an unattractive rust belt tour. In other words, the many times we traveled in these states we sought to avoid large city traffic and smog.

There are indeed things worthwhile seeking out, e.g.,in Chicago (my birthplace) some wonderful museums, in St. Louis (lived there) the Arch and the world class zoo and Missouri Botanical Garden, in Des Moines (went to college there) the Living History Farm.

Other sites mentioned: Door County, Niagra Falls, Galena are worthwhile. And so much else worthwhile in Middle America NOT in the big cities: caves and river canoeing in Missouri, Lincoln Museum in Springfield, IL, Mark Twain sites in Hannibal, MO, Wisconsin Dells, and much more but enough already.

AAFrequentFlyer,
thanks a lot for your itinerary, it really looks like fun and does not involve too much driving. I'm going to take a deeper look at the sites along the way. The only thing I didn't understand why do you suggest taking a train to Milwaukee, not a car? Milwaukee seems to fit in quite well in driving itinerary, doesn't it? Or I just misunderstood you and your suggestion is to rent a car in Milwaukee? Anyway, are there any pitfalls in going from Chicago to Milwaukee by car? Why train is preferrable?
I like the route you've suggested even though it doesn't include Cleveland's Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame, but we have to sacrifice something, right?
What I see is my original route has little to do with the route we'll take ultimately)))

Ozarksbill,
thank you for your feedback. I guess river canoeing requires some special skills and we're just not prepared for this activities)))Mark Twain sites do sound very interesting but this time however I tend to go northwest of Chicago. Hopefully I'll be able someday to undertake a journey from Chicago down to New Orleans and embrace sites you've mentioned - St. Louis, Springfield, Hannibal, etc.

It's just a suggestion. Why rent a car when you really don't need one? Milwaukee has wonderful public transportation system as well.

That's why I suggested the train to Milwaukee from Chicago and then using public transportaion to get around. Save some $ and don't have to worry about parking, paying a daily fee for rental, etc...

Just a suggestion...

Yes, I see, it makes sense, but in this case we'll have to go back to Chicago by train again. Frankly I have never rented a car in one place and dropped it off in another. I assume there will be additional fee for different place of drop off?