Question for NO TRAVEL AGENTS poster
 

Explain to me HOW a travel agent would benefit financially from a post on this forum? I don't think they belong here, I'm just wondering.

Liz, I'm not the person you addressed, but the only way a travel agent profits, IMO, is if the agent gives an e-mail address to contact her for discounts on activities, accommodations, etc. (MauiHeidi was doing this; though she says she got nothing out of it personally, that's not really true, because the agency she works for, Klahani, gets money out of selling these things, and they pay her!) Now as for the raving nut who accuses everybody of being an agent because they recommend a property, etc., that person is obviously stupid! How would I profit because I love the Renaissance Wailea and say so? The best way to handle the wackos is to ignore them to the degree we can!

Some folks don't understand that you can live much better lives by not always having the urge to sell, Sell, SELL! <BR>You need to stoop to smell the daisies now and then. <BR>Everyone knows that salesmen dona't have souls (the reason there are no salesmen in heaven is because you cannot BUY your way in). And what are travel agents but a lower order of salesmen/brokers?

Ever heard of "familiarization trips?" These are trips that travel agents take supposedly to "familiarize" themselves with a location and amenities, but they are bought and paid for by suppliers (like hotels and tour groups) who expect the agents to steer clients to their businesses in return for the free trips. <BR> <BR>Many agents got into the travel industry in order to take advantage of these travel perks and bonuses, not to mention hefty commissions (7-15%) when they are able to book travel for clients. All Joe Travel Agent has to do is point to all the internet travel sites where he has posted and pitched the suppliers businesses and bingo, more free trips, even if he can't angle for a commission on the site. (Fodor's does not allow it, but all the other sites do.) <BR> <BR>

So?

Travel agents are posting incognito on this site (because they know that outright advertising and promotion is forbidden) and offering "helpful tips" about hotels, restaurants and tours under the guise of being regular travelers -- it's fraudulent AND against Fodor's rules to promote a business here. And "steering" travelers toward certain places and things when it's in your financial best interest to do so is just that -- promotion. Would you book a hotel knowing that the person who recommended it has no real concern for your needs or wants, but was only trying to fulfill obligations to a client that paid him (whether in cash or in the form of perks)? Is that the kind of advice from "honest travelers" that you come to Fodor's to find? It's not what they created this site for. <BR> <BR>Information is power! Beware all you travel agents, because we're on to your schemes here and you're not welcome to steer, pitch and promote. <BR> <BR>

Well Liz and TW, since you're a couple of those undercover travel agents lurking here on the site, why don't YOU enlighten everyone about all the dirty little secrets of the travel agent industry? Come on, fess up! It will do those conniving little souls of yours good.

The problem isn't just that travel agents are pulling dirty tricks like that. The bulk of travel "writers" are even worse, especially those writing for newspapers or magazines. Talk about taking freebies and paying back favors. I've seen travel writers do things that would make seasoned travel agents blanch. (By the way, the worst of the lot are the ones writing for in-flight magazines.)

Not to get in the middle on this one, as I have not studied that much about travel agent practices. I just wanted to point out that I have seen many photography magazines criticized in regards to new product reviews the same way that a previous poster criticized travel magazines. Their biggest advertisers, afterall, are camera companies. I suspect that this is not uncommon in a lot of industries.

Then why are we even posting and reading posts if you can't trust what is being posted.? <BR>Maybe Fodor's will only post messages that have verified e-mail addresses? <BR>Who do/can you trust...? <BR>THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE

Sheesh, people can be so naive! <BR>Perhaps because many internet users are only 'casual users', lots of people on this forum don't understand the many ways travel agents can directly or indirectly profit from this forum. But please understand that there are a variety of ways TA's make money off the unwitting lemmings who follow their not so subtle suggestions. <BR>Of course direct contact by e-mail is the most obvious way. <BR>Many web sites pay referring sites 'by the hit'. If a TA can help beef up the number of hits to a B&B website, compensation will likely come his/her way, whether in travel benefits or discounts, etc. <BR>Just think about it for a second....if someone works professionally as a TA, do you think they'll want to spend their free time hanging out here offering the advice they get paid for while working, for free in their off hours? Maybe a few good hearted souls do. I doubt many do. <BR>Let the buyer beware.

Odysseus, you've got to check out: <BR> <BR>http://frommers.com/soap_box/testy_opinions/ <BR> <BR>where Arthur Frommer says : <BR> <BR>"...the current state of American travel journalism (the Sunday newspaper travel sections, the glossy, elitist travel magazines) is a shameful disgrace, a virtual scandal. " <BR>

I don't like Frommer's but for once he's right on.

Who is "Frommer"? Never heard of her.

Frommer is not a "her." The name refers to Arthur Frommer, the author of numerous travel guidebooks, founder of Arthur Frommer's Budget Travel magazine, and probably one of the most famous travel publishers in the world. (And also a darned gracious guy, by the way. I met him at the Travel Books & Language Center here in DC last week.) <BR> <BR>Odysseus, not all travel publications allow articles written based on "freebie" trips--in fact, quite a few do not. Conde Nast Traveler does not, for one; and a fair number of newspaper travel sections don't either. When I wrote a piece for the Newark Star-Ledger, for example, they quizzed me up one side and down the other to make sure I hadn't gotten anything free. (I hadn't.)

Yes, but I have known travel writers to lie to newspaper and magazine editors and get away with it. To resurrect an old cliche, newspaper and magazine editors aren't rocket scientists.

Question: Hey, did you get anything free for writing this article and promoting these businesses? <BR> <BR>Answer: Oh no, never. <BR> <BR>Well, O.K. After, all what POSSIBLE reason would you have to cover up or lie about it? Hmmmmm.....

F@#$ off you creeps. We like our perks and we'll continue to slime for them!

Okay, time for all you little children to go to bed!

Wow, these travel agents really get testy when they're flushed out, don't they?

I'll take a good travel book--like a Fodor's guide--over a travel agent any day!

Cur, Do you have the same legal remedies vs. a Fodors guide than you do vs a travel agent? <BR>I've used both..and..knock on wood, both types of trips have been very pleasurable. Keep 'em honest.... <BR>Kal

Kal, just who do you think you're fooling here? YOU ARE A TRAVEL AGENT, one of those who pretends that he isn't, exactly the type that Fodor's doesn't want here. For anyone who doubts it, go read his posts, especially about Hawaii -- he's one of those who lurk and skulk and steer for his own financial benefit. <BR> <BR>Understand his reason for being on this site and his incentives for providing "recommendations" -- he is fulfilling commitments to suppliers who pay him, in one form or another, to do so. Better find a new board and a new group of suckers who will follow your honest-traveler-advice Kal, because you've been exposed here!

to the top, for all those wondering about travel agents here on this site

I have a problem with a travel agent giving me information and "selling" themselves or their service without disclosing who they are. I prefer they say up front what they do and allow me the opportunity to decide. That's the only problem I have with them. I have found BETTER fares, for instance, doing it all myself by phone, even if it takes me days..Recently a t. agent got me a $274.00 roundtrip between two large cities..I got the same for $187--they wanted me to fly Us Airways and I went American. Just one example.

Ok, there are some OBVIOUS travel agent posts on this site. NOnetheless, some of you people have lost it completely. It's not like there's this big travel agent conspiraacy out there trying to take over the world. <BR> <BR>And no, I'm not a travel agent and don't even know any travel agents. Its just that some of the above posts were so crazy I couldn't help but respond - i.e. "Liz - you asked a reasonable question?!! You must be a travel agent!" <BR> <BR>For what its worth. I believe most people can do better than travel agents using books and the internet. Still, everyone should get a grip.

If you're not worried about travel agents lurking and posting unfettered on an open travel forum (which is NOT their own agency forum, by the way, but just a free target market for their use) then go to Frommer's or any other well-known sites and click through. There you will find the result of an unmonitored site -- no traffic, no exchange of information, just ads from travel agents posted all over. Is that what you want Fodor's to be too? Then by all means, let the travel agents LURK and take over the board as they have all the others.

Liz, if agents posted and said outright who and what they are, they would be violating Fodor's policy of no commercial promotion. So they do so more with more subtlety. Those who DO come out and admit they are agents (usually because they are posting in defense of travel agents) will always claim that they are here in their spare time, are not here to drum up business, are just giving out advice out of the goodness of their hearts -- again, to admit otherwise would be in blatant violation of the no promotions rule, and they risk having their posts deleted and possibly being banned by Fodor's. But they will always give their true e-mail, JUST in case you might want to contact them! <BR> <BR>Ask yourself WHY so many agents are here all the time! Do you really believe they are surfing around the net from their offices and just HAPPEN to come here to offer "advice"? Or better yet, that they spend all day working at the agency and have nothing better to do with their free time than to post on internet travel forums?

How about former Travel Agents? I was in the biz because I loved researching, reading about and if I was lucky, visiting destinations. Don't you think they might be able to add good info to seekers on this site through thier experience with travel? We are such a hateful species.......

I don't mind insightful information as long as it is not a bid for business. If you want to share with us please do. If I want to do business with a travel agent I know where to locate one.

I like to help people. I am not, nor have I ever been a travel agent. I must admit it sounds inviting...sitting behind a monitor and traveling all over. LOL Anyway, I am on here whenever I know an answer to something or can look something up, I'm more than happy to post, as I've done with several recent posters. But, like Liz, I agree. I have no problem as long as they IDENTIFY themselves as travel agents BEFORE peddling their wares.

Miriam, reread the above post. To announce that you are an agent (salesperson who receives commission) and then proceed to "recommend" places and things is commercial promotion, forbidden by Fodor's. Travel agents profit by "recommending" -- that is the nature of their business. That's why you don't see any of them doing it here. <BR> <BR>They are not about to jeopardize their free access to a free target market such as this forum. It costs a lot for businesses to purchase direct mailing lists.....this one is FREE for them!

I must say this is all a bit ridiculous. Can't we just agree that we do not want things sold to us while we are trying to get honest travel advise from honest travelers?! Even that is ridiculous.... Another point to be made... many travel agents love to travel and are truly interested in the travel industry. THAT is why they are travel agents! My husband, a travel agent (is it even okay to say the words!!), ALWAYS says that I ought to buy my tickets on the web because they are usually the same price... minus special promotions. So what is the big deal? I, personally, am not gullible enough to get sucked in by these travel agents or even those traveling incognito on this site so far as to give them business. That is unless I choose to, and I don't. Or are we worried about subliminal messages now? Happy Traveling!

Ever notice that the people defending the travel agent postings on this site are either the agents themselves or someone who profits directly from the agent? (like a spouse) And boy, don't they all come out of the woodwork when they think their livelihoods are being threatened! Post after defensive post by people who have financial stakes in their ability to access this site. <BR> <BR>Hey, if I owned a B&B because I just LOVE B&Bs and LOVE to talk about them, etc....etc....what's the problem in mentioning how great my own is, or for that matter how great the restaurants are that my friends from the Chamber of Commerce own, and that jet ski rental place that my son owns, and so on and so on. That's not commercial promotion, that's just me talking about something I LOVE and recommending things from my own heart!!! <BR> <BR>Semantics and euphemisms cannot conceal advertising, commercial promotion and the potential for profit, can it?

This is so ridiculous. Travel agents must be the devil. They are all out to get us. I cannot even pick up my phone nowadays without someone trying to sell me something. I get at least three calls a day while I am at work. It is sad. As for those who benefit from travel agents being the only ones' defending them... I think paranoia is setting in. I take away people's houses for a living and I do not get as bad a rap as the poster's on this site are giving up for the travel agents! I guess there are no travel agents who are not out to make a buck even in their spare time... and they must not travel for pleasure either. Can't we all just give up this and get back to what we all come here for anyway.. travel advise!? Or are we all too paranoid about being "taken" by these money hungry travel agents?

Traveler, if you're so anxious to give it all up , as you say, why do you continue to post? Sounds like you have a reason to want to squelch some of the discussions and information here on this site, or you wouldn't even bother to post. If it's so ridiculous why are you spending time and effort posting here? Me thinks you doth protest just a little too much. <BR> <BR>Travel agents, go to Frommer's and stay off this board with your sales pitches! <BR> <BR>

I just like a good debate. Sue me. As for protesting too much.. I do it often. Guilty again. But as for whose side I am really on... that is what I think is ridiculous. And your insinuation that I am not a traveler leave's a lot to be desired... especially as I speak more languages than most Americans.

hahahaha! (touche, Traveler!) <BR>(and cudos to you, Eichan) <BR> <BR>...I'm currently being Totally blasted on another related thread...OMG! 'Cause why? Gee, I'm a travel agent! <BR> <BR>You slammers don't know me from ADAM, yet choose to rip me to pieces because of my career. ...You know Nothing of me, my life, my passions, or my ETHICS!!! (Funny how I never see a valid slammer email addy or real name...) Do Not be so easy to put people into categories. (you Won't make good travelers!) <BR>If you're going to speak, speak with some integrity, intelligence, and knowledge. <BR>Oh... and I suppose I defend Myself (not the travel agent in me) because you do Not know me, and if you would actually READ my posts, you would know at least a little bit of me. <BR> <BR>(...wishing more and more I'd majored in psychology...)

Well Curious, does the above post answer your questions for you? Look how incensed those travel agents get when the truth comes out. Positively shrill, and willing to say or do anything to protect their business interests here. <BR> <BR>You're just digging your own grave here Sharon. Why don't you just go troll for business elsewhere, as all the legitimate travelers have suggested. This nasty, defensive vitriol you're spewing here is not winning you any new customers anyway! <BR> <BR>

Here's a recent post from our travel agent: <BR> <BR>Author: SharonM ([email protected]) <BR>Date: 8/29/2000, 2:12 pm ET <BR> <BR>Message: "I do all my arrangements myself. .. and, yes, I'm a travel agent... If you have the time and inclination, planning your own trip can be very informative and fun. Naturally, I cannot spend days and days and hours upon hours finding the "perfect" hotel for $60.00 a night for clients, especially without charging a service charge. After 15 years in this business though, I may have some pretty good suggestions and knowledge. While it IS true that these days we primarily stay in business due to cruise and tour bookings, we also offer our experience and expertise in these, as well as many other areas of travel. We are not responsible for weather, late flights, rude people, bad food, fights with your boyfriend, etc, etc... <BR> <BR>Bottom line is if we do a good job, people come back. Peregrine, sounds like you either did not have a very good agent or did not stress your needs adequately... If and when various problems do occur, a (good) agent will do what they can tofind out what can be done to remedy the situation. You may have to pay a $15.00-$20.00 service fee, but in the end you might save hundreds and save hours of time doing so. It's up to you." <BR> <BR>Now you may think after reading that that she was nothing but up front and honest, gee whiz! Here's what she managed to do with that subtle, low key sales post: <BR> <BR>1.She let everyone know that she claims to be an experienced agent with 15 years in the biz. That's sales pitch number one. <BR> <BR>2. She says she can help you with ALL your travel needs, not just cruises any more. That's pitch number two. <BR> <BR>3. She stresses what she will do for you to satisfy your consumer needs and keep you coming back. Pitch number three. <BR> <BR>4. She conveniently includes her REAL e-mail address, just in case you might want to contact her after reading that brochure solicitation of hers. <BR> <BR>Travel agents are slick sales people who know how to get around the rules of Fodor's while promoting themselves at the same time. Notice that she made sure to be very low key in her sales efforts and mention that self-planning is a good thing too! (Think she really believes that?) <BR> <BR>This woman is a pro. Know that her presence here is meant to steer you to her agency's preferred suppliers and her "friendly" information will hopefully encourage you to contact her. <BR> <BR>Now do you see why she's so angry at people who question her motives?