Planning Pacific North West Trip
 

Just turned the investigative stage into high gear.

Planning for the very end of July 2008 and lasting between 10 and 14 days. TBD.

Would hope to not rent a car other than for a few day trips from Vancouver and/or Seattle if worth it. Travel between major cities would be by train (Vancouver to Seattle and Seattle to Portland if included).

Flying from Ft Lauderdale to Vancouver. Then on to Victoria, Seattle and possibly Potland if I can be convinced it's worth the effort.

Our style is to wander on foot around various areas of a city to see the sights. We are used to getting around by public transportation.

While we're not big museum goers, we have been to many of the main museums (Met in NYC, Museum of Art in Philadelphia, Louvre and D'Orsay in Paris, Prado in Madrid, etc).

Meals play a very minor role in our day.

At this point I'm trying to determine the length of time in each area based on our interests, whether or not to include Portland or end in Seattle and any day trips that would be of interest.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Coming to the PNW and not wanting to see the outdoors is an interesting concept.

Yep, I suggest you do some preliminary investigation, then come back with questions. If Oregon is going to be part of this trip, you just can't come here and not see the coast.

I have to agree...the Pacific Northwest is at its best in places you need to take a car or ferry to...that said, the cities you listed are very enjoyable, although probably much less packed with interesting sites than NYC, D.C. and European cities. I can't imagine coming here in July without doing either the San Juan Islands or Mt. Rainier, and the Oregon Coast and B.C. coast are also lovely and have much to offer.

bbqboy, beachbum, voyager61

I don't remember writing that we didn't want to see the outdoors or the coast.

I did mention that we're not really museum goers and was hoping not to have a car as the primary mode of transport between areas.

I also mentioned that I am quite interested in renting a car while we are in certain places for daytrips.

I will research further.

The point we're trying to make, Myer, is that to see the PNW, you will need a car for more than just a few day trips. And, you haven't said anything about your interests other than what you <b>don't</b> generally like to do.

As voyager said, people don't come here for unique, cultural, city experiences. They come for nature and the outdoors, most of which can't be accessed via public transportation.

You're big into photography, right? All the more reason to have a car.

Myer, the outdoors is an integral part of everyday life out this way to an extent that doesn't exist back East. Salmon fishing in sight of Skyscrapers. Hiking Urban Mountains. Stuff like that.
Cities are fun, but not the reason for living in this part of the World. That's all we're sayin'. :)

Much of what is worth seeing in the Pacific NW isn't really do-able by day trips from the cities--you'd be better off having a car to travel from city to city, stopping at some of the amazing scenic areas on your way.

You *can* do it the way you're envisioning, but you'd miss a lot.

Thanks all,

I will rethink and try to develop a path.

While a lot of what we've done is in cities, we've also been to small towns and stop to enjoy scenery.

I'll do some work over the next few days and repost.

Thanks.

I thought the main part of the question was whether or not to include Portland in this trip. For that question I would have to say that it depends on whether you're doing 10 or 14 days. With 10, I'd say no; with 14, maybe. I like Seattle and Vancouver more than Portland, but others will undoubedly disagree.

My main question is--have you been to this area before? If not, you really should allow time for some of the spectacular areas such as Mt. Rainer, Olympic Pennisula, San Quan Islands, etc. etc.

I'll disagree. As a living &amp; dearly loving Seattle long-time resident, I don't do outdoor activities (though the OP never said anything one way of the other).

With two weeks you could do a very nice cities-only tour including Vancouver, Victoria and Seattle, that would not require car rental.

I'd skip Portland since you need to be 'convinced' it's 'worth the effort' (never a good start imo). You'd have time to include a night's stopover on the San Juan or Whidbey Island.

While I agree to see the area would be better in a car, many travelers simply don't like to drive - and perhaps its a way to save money. I think many travelers can still enjoy most places without a car.

Myer said they would rent a car for a few day trips, and I think that will be enough to get a feel for the beauty of the PNW.

Our first visit to Portland a couple of years ago was for 2 weeks, ( from Jax Fl ) we flew in..no car. Stayed in the 5th Avenue Suites ( now the Monaco Portland) and rented a car for 2 days.
One day we drove to the Historic Highway/Falls/Dam second day we drove out to Cannon Beach.
We visited the Museum once because we like museums, whether they are in a big city, world famous city or in a small town or city.

Portland could be the second half of the Seattle/Vancouver trip, gotten to by Amtrak.. from Seattle or the other way round.
I love PDX Airport...btw...great airport, always on time, rarely terribly crowded, clean and new..

If your style is to wander on foot, Portland is good for that, as it is a very walkable, not too large city with plenty of opportunities to take breaks ..shopping, drinking , eating, parks etc.
But I won't try to convince you as to the worth of the effort...it has to appeal to you..regardless of it's appeal to others.

Have fun making the decisions ..

Ahhh!!!

Now my original post doesn't sound quite as dumb as it did yesterday.

Suze,
The only reason I'd have to be convinced about Portland is that I didn't think of it originally. Nothing negative or positive.

No, I've never been to the area before. I once changed planes is Vancouver.

We are not indoor people (except for my wife and shopping-there was never a bad mall).

We can spend hours walking around cities and towns as we've done many times in North America and Europe.

We were in NYC &amp; Philadelphia in September and walked almost all day every day.

I was in Southwest Utah in June and hiked almost non-stop for a week.

You can see photos (if interested) at:
www.travelwalks.com

I just wanted to know if it's possible to do this trip without having a car sitting in the hotel garage all day.

As to the number of days, I haven't decided and it's basically open and depends on the various destinations. Between 10 &amp; 14 would most likely be it as too many less wouldn't be worth it and too many more would be a lot.

What would cause me to include Portland is if it really adds something different and compelling to the trip, or if I chose to drive between Seattle and Portland it gave us some spectacular scenery we couldn't see in a daytrip or two from Seattle.

Stay in Seattle. You don't need to see Oregon.

lol bbqboy

Stay in Portland, you don't need to see Seattle :D

bbqboy, Scarlett,

Very funny!!!

Since we're on the US board now, how about Portland AND Seattle and skip Vancouver.

Would that make everybody here happy?

Have to put in my two cents. If I was in Vancouver I'd ferry to Victoria and stay over night, tour Buchart Gardens. Vancouver is a beautiful city with great Asian restaurants,Stanley Park and Gastown. Then take the high speed ferry from Vancouver to Seattle. I think once in Seattle I'd rent a car for a couple of days, visit the wineries in Woodinville, drive to Mount Rainier or Mount Baker. There is a lot to see in Seattle so another two days or so there would be a treat for your wife (Shopping in mind)! Portland is a great city but that should be another trip so you could see the shore, mountains, city, and wineries without feeling rushed.

Ok.

What is the better (more scenic, schedule, cost, slower, faster) way of getting to Victoria from either Vancouver or Seattle?

Any other reason to select one mode over another?

Take the Victoria Clipper from Seattle to Victoria! Very fun.

There's nothing particularly scenic about the drive between Seattle and Portland, unfortunately. It's a 3-hour straight-shot south down the I-5 freeway.

I guess you can go to Portland if you want ;-) but I've lived here 20 years and never have (sorry Scarlett)

I've agreed all along that there's no compelling reason to include Portland. Oregon's coast is a different matter, however.

Whether you rent a car or not depends on what you want to see while you are here. For me, some destinations in the Pacific Northwest, including the San Juan Islands, Mt. Rainer National Park, the Oregon Coast and Olympic National Park among others, are less enjoyable as day trips. The experience would feel too rushed. It just depends on what kind of trip you want to have. The islands, coast and mountains are peaceful, non-urban destinations that I like to savor.

A lot of people fly in one place and out of another, like into Portland and out of Vancouver and then loop through the national parks, islands, etc. on the way from one city to another.

It's a great area to visit that time of year, whatever you decide.

Hey, this thread is amusing in the spots where it isn't exactly informative.

The best &quot;walking&quot; city in the area is VANCOUVER, hands down...

On top of that, it's &quot;foreign&quot; too.

(not to mention one of &quot;The most Liveable Cities in the world&quot; - only one in North America among the top 20, not so long ago)

Glad you're moving by train from Vancouver to Seattle (as rental car prices/logistics could be prohibitive)

Saaaaaaaaaaaaay for example you went to Vancouver for, say, 5-ish days... and consented to rent a car for a 48-hour window of it... you could take a round-(day)trip up to Whistler (2010 winter olympics there)... but the path getting there is much/most of the scenery.

You could use the other day of your car rental for orienting yourself to the area in a speedy manner, to make most efficient use of your remaining time once you turn the car in. Perhaps treat yourself to a trip to Grousse Mountain for scenery, hiking, or dinner during that extra day with the car - it's just more convenient with the car, you don't really NEED the vehicle.

Vancouver downtown is relatively compacted by water on most sides, so it makes for just the sort of &quot;(wandering on foot around various areas) city&quot; you spoke of as your &quot;style&quot;.

Train to Seattle lands you right back in the midst of a new city with scenery all around. Hopefully you'll have central lodging and once again lots to do within an easy walk or a brief trip on a dependable bus system. (don't forget that Seattle and Vancouver public transportation is more hospitable than most merely because waiting at the bus stop is bearable weather-wise almost all year around - curiously &quot;San Diego's&quot; bus system has often received great reviews too - there must be something to the weather)

If you plan 5 days in Seattle, and are willing to rent a car for two of them... perhaps a side trip to &quot;Mount Rainier&quot; would be in order... do a round-trip around the mountain on the path of your choosing. Then select some other destination/direction for your other day with the car.

As for Portland... I've been there a number of times... and while the downtown area is modern and cozy, some of the outlying communities make me bristle. A drive up the Columbia River or out to the coast would make good sense if you go there... but if it were me... I'd make sure you did Vancouver very well... and then did Seattle very well too, in part because it is more near and convenient than is Portland.

I think you should fill up a 10-day game plan with those two cities, and then see where you are expense-wise and time-wise, and decide on Portland for yourself.

I would just listen to Johnthedorf and suze lol

:)

Thanks. Lots of good ideas here.

Ok. How much of this makes sense.

Not counting the arrival and final departure dates.

Vancouver - 3 days.
Plus another day to rent a car and go to Whistler.

Train to Seattle in the evening of day 4.

Seattle - 3 days.
Plus boat to Victoria in the late afternoon and return the following late afternoon.
Plus rent a car for 3 days (2 nights and back to Seattle in the evening) and go to Mt Rainier and then loop around the Peninsula and possibly in Olympic NP. For a sample route I just looked at a map starting in Seattle and did a loop to Mt Rainier, SW to Longview, South Bend, Port Angeles, Olympic NP and back to Seattle. Is this route worth the drive or modify?

That would be a total of 11 days plus the start and end travel days. I could add a day or two if it makes a difference somewhere.

Can we start building from this?

Still doesn't work. You don't want to go to Canada twice - border crossings are a problem. Plus, going back and forth from Seattle to Victoria doesn't make sense. If you skip Whistler, you don't need a car at all in Canada. An option: Go to Vancouver, then Victoria and the US by ferry, then rent a car in Seattle and do your driving from Seattle.

Don't know why Whistler. Mt. Rainier and Hurricane Ridge are as impressive from a scenic standpoint, if not moreso. If it's for the scenery, skip it. If it's to see the cute town and where the Olympics will be, keep it in.

3 nights Vancouver, 3 days. Ferry to Victoria.
2 nights, Victoria, 1 day, Ferry to Seattle.
2 days, 2 nights, Seattle, Rent a car
1 night, 2 days, Mt. Rainier
3 nights 3 days, Olympic Peninsula, Olympic National Park (Hurricane Ridge), Crescent Lake, Hoh Rain forest, return

I'd have had you ferry from Victoria to Port Angeles, but I am assuming you want to rent a car in one place and return it there. If you could rent one in Port Angeles and return it in Seattle, that would be the way to go.
Victoria to Port Angeles, OP for 3 nights, then Seattle, then Mt. Rainier.

Just my thoughts. Where do you live? The PNW is about the mountains, forests, and the water - the islands, sparkling waters, glacial lakes, rain forests. You don't even have to go for panting hikes to see jaw dropping beauty. There are easy trails to gorgeous vistas that will take your breath away.

Orcas, Thanks.

Including Whislter was strictly a scenery thing. No driving urge to see an Olympic site.

We're originally from Montreal and were there during the Olympics.

We've been living in South Florida for the past 14 years.

We've seen mountains having been to Switzerland several times.

I'm trying to mix cities with the beauty of the areas.

If Whistler doesn't really add much I can pass on it.

I thought going to Victoria from Vancouver is a hassle while going from Seattle is downtown-to-downtown.

We have both US and Canadian passports and know about crossing the border.

When you cross via ferry or boat, where to they check you? On the boat or after waiting in a long line at the destination? his is for both Vistoria and Seattle should we do it cross-border. If it's a hassle then it would make more sense to lean toward going from vancouver if there's an easy way.

Auto rental is much, much less expensive by returning it to the same location. That would be the preference. Picking up a car in Port Angeles and doing the driving before Seattle and returning it in Seattle is a very expensive option with few choices.

I'd like to know more about the various options of getting to Victoria from Vancouver or Seattle.

Thanks.

You can take a bus that goes on the ferry from Vancouver to Victoria. There was a thread about this awhile back on the Canada board. I recall it was fairly easy to figure out and do. You go from downtown and arrive downtown, by bus. The ferry itself goes from Tsawwassen to Sidney, I believe.

I think Vancouver is easily doable on foot, and so is Victoria. Buchardt Gdns is worth a visit near Victoria, but plenty of busses go there. Seattle has busses, too, but you'd want a car for getting out of the city.

The Victoria Clipper is the only boat between Seattle and Victoria. It is a fast ferry and takes no cars. It leaves from downtown Victoria and arrives in downtown Seattle. I haven't taken the Clipper for awhile, but I believe the customs is after you have arrived at your destination. I think it would be much faster to go through customs on foot (via the Clipper) than in a car. The border crossing by car can take a long time. The car border is being redone for the Olympics, and, due to the construction, there are supposed be be a lot of lane closures that will cause more backups than usual.

That said, the train is supposed to be a fairly good way to cross, as they do some on board. There is only one real train a day. The busses have to cross by road and even though there are special crossings for busses, it can still take awhile.

We did a Seattle-Victoria (overnight)-Seattle roundtrip on the Clipper in the summer of 2006. Customs was a piece of cake, both directions. The Clipper also runs between Victoria and Vancouver, doesn't it?

This past summer, we used Washington State Ferries from Anacortes to the San Juans. They also run to Victoria (or Sydney). It would be nice if you could somehow work a day or two in the San Juans into this mix....

It may be hard to fit in the San Juans, but I agree. It would be great. That would be a trip from Seattle by car. You'd have to drive to Anacortes and wait for the ferry, which would be time consuming. Alternatively, you could just go to Whidbey Island and visit a winery, the cute town of Langley and some of the parks along the western side of the island. The wait for that ferry isn't as long.

A more &quot;in route&quot; option would be to stop through a Gulf Island on your way from Vancouver to Victoria. I know you can rent a car on Saltspring Island, which is the largest of the Gulf Islands. If you happen to be there on Saturday, they have a wonderful market in Ganges, the main town. The market has works by local artists, as well as local gourmet foods, fresh food products, etc. Ganges isn't as cute as Friday Harbor - more contemporary looking, but the island is nice and some of the shops in Ganges are impressive.

You can get a map of a terrific do-it-yourself driving tour around Saltsrping island that takes you by in-home artist studios, bakeries, cheese making shops, wineries, parks. I think it would take two days to make the entire island loop and have a chance to enjoy being on the island.

Assuming we got to Seattle either by train from Vancouver or by boat from Victoria, what would you suggest for a 2-3 day auto excursion from Seattle.

This would not include Victoria as that would be taken care of.

I am not opposed to driving in any direction. Even back north near the Canadian border.

Thanks for all the ideas so far.

I would suggest staying at Paradise Lodge, which is a National Park Lodge at Mt. Rainier. They are reopening it after two years of renovation shortly. There are nature hikes with rangers. On one day, you can drive around the mountain to the east, to Sunrise, and visit Ohanapakosh, a rain forest, on that trip.

There is plenty to do and you'd enjoy spending all your time there. I would not dally in making reservations. Paradise Lodge may already be booked. If there is no cancellation penalty, even if you aren't sure, I'd suggest you make your reservations asap. The url for Paradise Lodge:

http://rainier.guestservices.com/index.html

If it's booked, you can stay at Longmire, also in the park, or some lodge outside the park.

Mt. Rainier is the queen of mountains in the Pacific Northwest, and perhaps the US. It is one of God's most beautiful. If you arrive on the Victoria Clipper from Victoria, there is a good chance you will see it looming, all 14,440 feet, glacier capped, over Seattle. Seattle is dwarfed in the foreground. Mt Rainier is impressive, to say the least.

Orcas,
I'm a bit surprised. I thought you'd suggest a stop in Olympic NP and Hurricane Ridge and then on to one of the Islands or maybe even San Juan Island.

Paradise Lodge is a great overnight spot. There's nothing like being on that mountain in the evening and early morning...when the wildlife venture out. I think I'll try to book a spot for this summer right now! Thanks, Orcas, for reminding me that it's re-opening.

Myer,

In the State of Washington, you can't get to the San Juan Islands from the Olympic Peninsula. The only ferry is from Anacortes, which is north of Seattle, and you need a car to get to that ferry. You can take a ferry from Port Townsend (on the OP) to Whidbey Island and from there, drive to Anacortes and then take a ferry to the San Juans, but timing two ferries in the summer would take most of the day. So, in two days, you really can't do both the OP and the San Juans.

That said, you could go on an excursion to the Olympic Peninsula or to the San Juan Islands as an alternative to Mt. Rainier. However, if you are taking the ferry from Vancouver to Victoria, and stop in Salt Spring Island, you've already gotten the island flavor, and if you've dropped out Whistler, you are missing the mountains.

The Olympic Peninsula is also very cool, and you could go to Hurricane Ridge, which has spectacular views to the south into snow capped mountains (like the alps) and to the north, over the Strait of Juan de Fuca, and you can see Victoria over the water. The OP also offers great water opportunities (Dungeness Spit) and the Hoh Rain forest. That is definitely a good alternative to Mt. Rainier.

Are you flying in and out of Seattle? If so, renting a car and doing basically a big circle (say, Seattle, San Juans, Vancouver, Victoria, Olympic Peninsula, and back to Seattle) would be a nice trip, especially if you have a full 2 weeks.

Wanderer, Orcas,

My original thought was to fly into Vancouver (from FLL) and back from Seattle. The flights are better that way than the reverse.

Also, I didn't want to drive between Vancouver and Seattle.

However, a possibility could be to visit Vancouver then go to Victoria and boat to Seattle.

Then after a couple of days in Seattle, I could rent a car and do a day trip to Mt Rainier, sleeping back in Seattle.

Then we could drive to Olympic Park and go to Victoria if we skip it on the Vancouver end and continue on to the towns/citis on the North Coast. Then ferry from Port Townsend and put together the rest from there.

Not counting Victoria, this last part could be one or two nights.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks.

You need to get a map and sit down with it. Also, look at the websites for BC Ferries and State of Washingon Ferries, the Victoria Clipper and the Coho ferry. You have to understand your routing options, and how long it takes to take a ferry, including wait times. Some take reservations, some don't.

Not sure what towns/cities on the north coast you are referring to that you might want to see.

I like NWWanderers suggestion of renting a car and doing a loop. It gives you more flexibility. Seattle and Vancouver are only 2 1/2 hours apart, plus crossing the border. You just have to time the border crossing right - remember the Canadians are all coming to the US to shop for weekends. Stay away from crossing with them and be careful on weekends.

I've looked at maps and distances.

What I don't have a feel for is the ferry stuff.

I'm trying to decide what's of interest and what isn't.

I think it may be a good idea not to drive across the border. Even on a weekday. Could take a while in the summer. And I understand there's a lot of construction.