Although I have not yet had to deal with the overlarge seatmate problem, I have considered what I would do if the occasion arose:

1: I would not sit in the partial seat, but would remain in the aisle and seek assistance from a flight attendant. By not accepting the partial seat, I would not give the airline the chance to ignore me.

2: I would go into politeness and humility overdrive and enlist the flight attendant into an attempt to help without embarrassing the seat-encroaching large person. If there were an alternative seat available, I would insist that the large person be offered the choice of the best seat.

3: If that failed, rather than sit in the partially filled seat, I would politely request and suggest that the problem be passed to a higher authority on the plane (or off it), but I would not sit down.

4: If all else failed, I would politely but firmly insist that I be given the benefits due to an involuntary bumping, or that they ask for a bumping volunteer, but I would not sit down in a seat already occupied by the person in the next seat.

That said, I think a little creativity by the airlines would solve most of these problems. As long as the financial survival of the airlines requires narrow seating, any loss of seat numbers will not occur.

However, there are places on most planes where the seating configuration could vary to include one or two wider seats when the maximum number of narrow seats doesn't quite fill the available space. I have seen narrow seats in short rows at the ends of cabins where there are a few extra inches unused by the narrow seats where wider seats would fit nicely. These could be assigned to wider passengers at flight time, just as bulkhead and exit row seats are specially assigned.

However, would any CEO allow his airline to become known as "Fat Friendly?"

AJPeabody, you sound like a thoughtful person to have a plan in advance. BUT, when faced with it, I think it would be harder than you think to cause a scene by standing in the aisle. It would draw more attention to the overweight person than any other tactic, for one, and it would take callousness on your part to pull off. Plus, it would mark you as a belligerent passenger, possibly delay the flight, and tick off all passengers, etc. It would create a scene for the FA and pilot to deal with, not the policy-makers we need to affect.
Again, I think the problem has to be solved upfront, not in the plane when everyone is involved and inconvenienced.
Finances understood-- the airlines would charge more for over-sized seats. And, yes, I think airlines could find a way to position themselves as 'flyer friendly' to all their passengers. The over-sized seats could be marketed to other specialty groups-- people with infants, for instance. (Or, maybe a new airline could start up to address just this problem-- so many of us Americans are overweight now! Just kidding, I think.)

True, there are widebody planes that could accomodate all sizes.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...83667803weUEQG

AJPeabody, excellent. As I do feel for the large person, at some point my feelings and comfort level must be given equal value.

So, extra wide seats for a 50% surcharge? Isn't that called Business Class? And what if I want to buy that 2nd seat for half price? Do I HAVE to be obese or can anyone take advantage of this offer?

JBC411 and JetBlue are on the right track, and the only viable track IMO. Put those wider seats at the very rear of the plane. The marketplace will sort it out pretty quickly.

We are trying Hooters Air for the first time out of Myrtle Beach to NYC and we'll see about the larger seats. Supposedly, Hooters has much larger seats and lots of leg room in every seat.

Marilyn, there is no second seat for half-price. It's one over-sized seat for 150%. It's a conundrum, because others could buy such a seat (i.e. w/ infants) yet the obese would be required to buy it. So supply and demand would be challenging. Does JetBlue charge extra for those wider seats at the rear of the plane?

JetBlue does not (to the best of my knowledge) have wider seats. What they have is seats with a bit more legroom. So when you book online and choose your seats, you have the option of choosing regular seats toward the front, or more legroom seats toward the back. No difference in price, just the option to place more value on getting off the plane sooner or having more legroom during the trip.

I think it was JBC who suggested that wider seats might be handled in the same way, i.e., a few would be available, but they would have some drawback so that everyone wasn't clamoring for them. Maybe those seats would not be assigned until check-in, or FA's could make the arbitrary decision to move someone into those seats.

My other remarks were in reply to the various suggestions made on the thread, e.g., buy a larger seat for 150% of the normal price, or buy 2 seats with the 2nd at a reduced rate. I don't know if any airline is currently doing any of these things, but they were mentioned as possibilities. The problem I see is that lots of people might want to take advantage of this, since it's more space but cheaper than Business Class.

Pardon me if I step on any toes, but a little embarrassement is what it took for me to lose the weight. When I started to feel my hips squeeze into movie theater seats/amusement parks rides/airline seats, I knew, That's it. I had to take responsibility for myself, not make it society's/ or the business's problem. These larger people should be the more sensitive people, and do something about it, lose the weight or buy 2 seats, that's their problem, not others or the airlines.
I disagree with the airline that made someone sit in the seat that the two women had responsibly purchased and they should have complained and been given a compensation of some kind. Had I been the one put in that seat I would have declined to take that seat that they had paid for and the airline would be forced to find(and pay for) someone to take another flight.

Yes, MaureenB, my advance plan would be risky if I did it wrong. Clearly, both the politeness and the humility would have to be demonstrated some distance from the compromised seat. Your point is well taken.

Perhaps a bit of bewilderedness ("Gee, Miss Flight Attendant, what am I going to do?") should also be added.

The main point is that as long as seats are sized and measured to be uncomfortable to the average sized coach flyer, and intolerable to anyone with excess width or length, there will continue to be problems, but if all seats were big enough and spaced enough to fit all possible longs or wides, there must be fewer seats per plane and higher fares for all.

Rationally, there should be different seat sizes in proportion to expected passenger sizes, assorted to allow unequally sized couples to find suitably sized seats next to each other. Of course, equity would then require size based fares, and the clear result would be both angered passengers, frazzled airline workers, and chaos. In other words, conditions would be the same as they are now, but more complicated.

So, a modest proposal (see J. Swift):

No individual seats, just long benches, seating as many or as few as the total bottom widths will allow per row.

Or: No seats at all. Let everybody stand and we won't need to worry about seat sizes.

After all, now that the plane is the bus, we could change to the plane as the subway.

JBC411: 'We who value freedom of choice should not be beating up on our fellow citizens who are more different from others of us, and have different needs, than is convenient for the service providers.'

Yours is an intelligent response, but no one is beating up on our fellow citizens, we're just 'taking up for the little guy', who's being sqeezed here in more than one way! I think the responses here have been expressed in a sensitive manner. ...What is that old quote...something like 'your rights end where my nose begins'...???:-?

I agree with AJPeabody and trypgryl's responses and I think, if more of us did this, the management would have to take notice and do something about the problem.

Belle

Someone above said that &quot;there is no way you can avoid discrimination issues.&quot; Not true. Air services in Alaska (both helicopters and planes) ask in advance if you weigh over 250. If so, you are charged fare-and-a-half and given two seats. I definitely think there should be a surcharge for large folks and only a certain number of seats on each airplane alloted for them (as the airline would lose revenue by charging only 1.5 times the fare for 2 seats). Discrimination? Not at all. Safety and comfort, both for the other passengers and the obese traveler as well. What if such a person sat in the aisle seat and actually <i>prevented</i> other passengers from getting out of their row because of mobility issues? Their right to be obese doesn't &quot;outweigh&quot; my right to safety and comfort.

I hope my comments don't sound hostile, because I don't have any personal animosity towards any group or category of people. I have flown next to really huge people and it is a <i>terrible</i> experience.

This is obviously not a PC question but something just struck me.

We from time to time have threads about someone having someone larger spread over to part of their airline seat.

One large person and the smaller person is consequently not able to enjoy or use the airline seat they purchased.

What happens, if I may ask, if in a row of seats all the passengers in that row (be it two or three seats) are larger than the couch seats.
For example, three seats, three large people. It would seem that these three people would not be able to be accommodated in the three seat row. Has this ever happened? And if so, what does the airline do in that situation?

You can bet your life they'd complain!

This happened to me on a non-stop flight from San Francisco to Boston some years ago. It was a truly dreadful experience. In a row of three, I was in the center with another normal size person in the window seat. Just before the door was closed, a HUGE woman arrived, lifted the armrest and plopped down into the
aisle seat! I was initially quite astonished as I did not realize that those armrests could be lifted. This woman spread WAY into my seat. No matter how far to the right I attempted to move, she was unavoidable. Within minutes, I was soaked! Not wishing to seem inconsiderate, I endured this until I could no longer stand it, then grabbed the reading material from the pocket and stuffed it down between us. She pretended not to notice.

In my opinion, anyone who cannot fit into one seat without spreading into the one beside them should be required to purchase two seats, or a seat in business or first class if that does the job.

I vehemently disagree that I am purchasing &quot;transportation&quot;. I have purchased a SEAT.

As everyone knows, those seats are cramped enough without anyone on either side &quot;spreading&quot; into yours.

Though I am not without sympathy and empathy for all those who are grossly overweight, in my observation, the overwhelming majority of them have gotten themselves that way with very poor eating habits. For sure, if I had no &quot;restraint&quot;, I would be just as huge.

Doesn't everyone know overweight folks who say &quot;Well, I really shouldn't...&quot; but then go right ahead?

Those who cannot &quot;contain&quot; themselves in one airline seat know very well who they are. And, to spread into another seat on an airplane is just totally rude and inconsiderate.

You know, if the airlines have and enforce baggage restrictions, there's no reason why they shouldn't have and enforce height/weight restrictions in seats.

How ridiculout to suggest that this is a matter of &quot;discrimination&quot;!

You know, the airlines can hardly keep themselves in business these days, so this may be a significant issue.

When traveling alone (to meet my husband traveling on business), unless I can upgrade to business or first class, I don't go.

When traveling with my husband, unless we can book seats on a plane with two seats only in the row, we don't go.

Unfair! ? Welcome to real life. Why not just pat yourself on the back for being kind to the woman and move on.

djkbooks, you are totally correct regarding this problem. LoveItaly, obese passengers really should be placed next to each other. They would realize how a normal-sized person feels when half their space is taken by the huge person who sits beside them. I would never allow that arm rest to be raised. The obese person will have to live with it.

At the risk of being flamed to a crisp, here goes...

When airlines/airports started to prohibit smoking, a few smokers complained but everyone embraced the cleaner, fresher air. No one talked about discrimination. Smokers just had to adapt.

&quot;But smokers damage my health, obese people don't&quot;, some might say. In an airplane environment, I disagree. Not only do obese people can cause extreme discomfort to the people sitting next to them, they also become a MAJOR safety hazard in the event of an emergency. I've seen people on planes whose belly touches the seat in front of them sitting in the emergency row. They are supposed to be able to open the exit and direct others... how can they direct others to the exit when they take up the row's width?

Airlines didn't get creative with the smoking situation. They didn't create a separate section for smoking. They banned it, period. If you are so overweight that you might create a safety hazard, why should you be allowed to fly? You're endangering other people's lives! Imagine a really overweight person on the Air France flight that recently crashed in Toronto... the only reason nobody died in that crash was that the plane was evacuated in time.

In most cases, obesity is self-inflicted by a combination of overeating and lack of exercise. It is also reversible.

What if the policy is... if you can't fit, you can't fly? I know it sounds extreme but, then again, forbidding smoking in airplanes and airports was an extreme idea when it was first brought up.

Jean Valjean, I guess noone has given you two candlesticks yet, and you have not learned mercy. I am sorry for you.

I know some really warm, bright and productive people who are grossly overweight. Two have struggled with depression for years. Both have recently had bypass surgery and I hope it is successful. Another is my husband's sister and she is developmentally disabled, having had some sort of brain injury at birth. She is a sweet person with a sense of fairness, but she has no sense about food. That said, when she flies, the family donates frequent flier points to make sure she goes first class so she has room on the plane.
This is a problem, but banning people from transportation is hardly the answer, or even a kind thought.

I should know better than to respond to these train wreck posts, but, whatever.

&gt;What if the policy is... if you can't fit, you can't fly&lt;

A flaw in your analogy is that smokers are prohibited from smoking during a flight, not prohibited from flying.

And if the criteria for allowing disallowing people to fly is that they are a potential safety hazard in an emergency, why stop at the obese? How about the folks in wheelchairs? The really old and the youngest among us? Mentally challenged?

obxgirl, the very young, very old and mentally challenged are not flying alone so would be far less of a risk than an obese person who cannot fit through an exit door or help others to manage that feat.

Orcas, the fact that someone is &quot;really warm, bright and productive people&quot; (though obese) does not in any way alleviate the misery of the person they are sitting beside/halfway on top of. One fact has nothing to do with the other.

This subject clearly is an inflammatory one, but it merits rational discussion.
I interpret the posts addressing the safety issue to mean that an obese person not only endangers him or herself in an evacuation, but also endangers everyone else who would be stuck on the plane because of that overweight person not being able to move. That is not the case with the physically or mentally disabled, or the youngest and oldest passengers. They endanger only themselves.
And I think most of us agree that obese people can also be kind people, and the obese condition may not be their fault. And the solution to contribute miles so that family member can sit in first class is an excellent one. In cases where that doesn't happen, the point is that an obese person sitting in a coach seat will infringe on seatmates' purchased space, as well as their safety. The airlines need to address this. It really shouldn't be up to all of us to deal with it as best we can when we find ourselves in this uncomfortable situation. I doubt if the FAs appreciate being left to deal with it onboard either.

Orcas, obxgirl,

Before you make this even more personal, understand that I know that it is a heartless, tyranic, self-centered, stupid, flawed idea. I know how it sounds and how it comes across (hence the first line in my previous post). I know and love wonderful people who would be affected by this kind of policy. I just believe that looking at the extreme of an argument helps in framing debates.

Orcas, I regret that you jump to conclusions about people so easily, even if you do 'feel sorry' for me.

obxgirl, I was very specific in what I wrote. What you are saying is a slippery slope.

On a recent flight on Jet Blue:

We arrived at our seats and ther was an obese woman in the ailse seat already there. She was tremendous...so tremendous in fact her boosoms and stomach were almost touching the seat in front of her. She could not move and we literally had to climb over this woman to get to our middle and window seat. She needed 2 extensions. This woman was a human wall. Her husband was on the ailse seat next to her and all he did was get her one snack after another. She ate the plane out of biscotti. I have to say it really disgusted us. We could not even get out to go to the bathroom. We again had to climb over her mountainous body to get off the plane... How is this fair and how is this safe? My husband and I shared 1 seat, but paid for 2. Now we buy 3 seats on Jetblue at all times because the people that should don't. This is not the first time this has happened to us on Jetblue but it was the worst. This is one of the reasons why we fly first...but JB does not have first. Also JB does not offer wider seats, only seats with more leg room from rows 13 back 11 and 12 are exit row.

I don't think the airlines should have wider seats for larger people...that would open up a whole can of worms. Who would qualify for those seats? What's the price for those seats? If they are double wide then they should b double price. If obese people don't buy 2 seats now why would they purchase a double wide seat at a higher price?
I think the answer should be if you need an extension you need 2 seats and it should be inforced. I really think it's unfair and after the last flight with the &quot;wall of human&quot; next to us...I mean c'omon...how can someone be so selfish and insensitve? If her and her husband bought 3 seats they could have sat in the same row.
We are going to Fla in December and I bought 3 seats...not because we need them but the people that should don't.

What if that fat chic farted and you could not vacate your seat? should the FAA pass regulations about that? What if she got stuck in the door of the lav? Talk about embarassment.

All sarcasm aside, the only thing to do is chrge for 2 seats. They can measure the arse before boarding the plane and the option is to buy a first class seat or 2 coach. Otherwise, loose weight.

MaureenB, you said:

&quot;And I think most of us agree that obese people can also be kind people, and the obese condition may not be their fault&quot;

I do not agree with the second part of that statement. Only a fraction of a percent of obese people have any medical reason for being that way! When you worry about the embarrassment of the obese person related to an airline seat, remember that they choose the road they walk when they eat uncontrollably. That is their right but they must accept the consequences. I do not think that makes those of us who want the seat we pay for cold or callous.

Why is no one blaming the airlines?

Flying is such a pain in the ass any more that the last thing passengers need to be doing is policing each other.

Fat Police! Fat Police!!

Good grief! What's with all this PC obsequiesness over the grossly obese? Are there a lot of really fat Fodoroites you all are hoping not to offend, because I thought the next line I was going to read was &quot;one of my best friends is obese.&quot; (former best friends were black and gay, I'm sure.) And the land of free people post--this isn't about fair solutions, it's business for pete's sake, and unless changing obese-people policy results in increased shareholder value, don't expect a change anytime soon. People: stop hand-wringing and start thinking, particularly about ecomomics--and what it means that these increasingly obese people are a by-product, literally, of an American culture that does nothing but consume.

I'm with Gotravel. The airlines keep jamming seats closer and closer together and making them smaller and smaller. Plus they reduce the amount of Oxygen in the cabins to feed the jet engines. It's disgusting.

I don't have a problem with them charging higher fares for people who are double-sized. Heck. They could just charge by weight to begin with. Those of us who are smaller consume less of that already depleted air and require less fuel.

Yes, I think that is the answer. The airlines should develop a fare schedule based on weight. My poor tall husband would have to pay more but what the heck, it would be a fairer fare, more reflecting the true cost of flying.

I like that idea, Orcas, but can you imagine the weigh-ins and over-charges on the return trips from Italy and France? :-D

I don't agree with those who say obese people are not dangerous to others.

If I don't exersize during a flight I'll get off the plane with ankles (and sometimes knees) swallen. My doctor said that exersize (and loose clothing) is the only thing to help me. Now imagine me squeezed next to an obese person. Yes, my life IS in danger.

And don't tell me to take a walk to the lavatory - most of the pilots keep the seatbelt light on all the time!

Maryling, they will owe you after the weigh-in :)

Agreed, it's all the airlines' fault. But like too many rats in a confined space, we turn on each other!

Jean_V, I made no personal comments directed at you. I responded to the content of your post which I took at face value, not as an extreme arguement &quot;helping&quot; to frame a debate.

Note to self. Do not post on train wrecks. Do not post on train wrecks.

My point is that yes, it is up to the airlines to police this.

Deep Vein Thrombosis anyone?

It is definitely a problem that the airlines need to figure out. I have a small frame and I feel squished in the seats. I do not understand how larger people can handle it. Maybe they should have rows on the plane specifically for the larger people that are a little more expensive but not the cost of two seats and are required if you weigh more than 200?????

jgreat, your theory is flawed.

Someone that is 5'0&quot; and weighs 200 pounds is probably considered obese.

Someone 6'1&quot; and weighs 200 pounds probably just got out of the hospital.

You are correct. I would think that others might be interested in purchasing the seats as well. My husband probably would 6', 180lbs. He always feels squished.

FainaAgain,
Think of the lawsuit your heirs could have against the fat person who was sitting in the next seat when you had that blood clot that lead to your untimely end. They'd be rich!!! And think of the criminal trial. Would the charge be second degree murder or manslaughter? I don't think we could go with first degree murder or the electric chair, though I think some of the posters here would be for that.

jgreat, my husband is 6'5&quot; and weighs 250 and coach is a nightmare for him as well.

Fortunately if we aren't flying FC the airlines usually take pity on him and put him in Emergency Row.

Orcas, and here I am depressed not being able to leave an inheritance! Thank you, dear, what an inheritance (and memories!!) that would be!