Once again Tipping?%18/%15???
 

A most recent thread is about a legal issue regarding a mandatory %18 tip on a large party. Rather than be poster # 49, I have started a new thread to ask simply......

"Whatever happened to the %15 gratuity?" I find the mandatory %18 an insult from owners who have thru some mishap in the past, decided that we should not only pay for overpriced food but should pay their servers salaries. So they can buy more restaurants, bigger houses, and more vacations.
That said, if I am hosting a private party, and the service has been simply good, I tell the waiter to add %23, so I only need to sign. Yes I overtip, but for an owner to demand me to do better than %15 is simply wrong.

With that said, and waitstaffs, bring it on, but realize I worked in the industry for many years, and yes I have left %10 for service that deserved less, and will continue to do so.
Just My Humble Opinion

You got that right. They shouldn't mandate 18% tip added to the bill. Service typically suffers at places that tack on that 18%!

Steve
Maryland

Stever said "Service typically suffers at places that tack on that 18%."

Which is frequently why those places have to tack on the 18%.

I refused to get involved in another tipping debate. But I think that ...

'Scuse me. I'm headed back to my 12-step program.

I'm not that anal about exact percentages. If the service was good, I'll tip roughly 17-20%. OK service gets a little less. Poor service gets even less.

I hope the post above was supposed to be funny. Not anal about percentages but "roughly 17-20%." That's great!

It's interesting how the recommended tip percentage has risen, seemingly for no reason. After all, restaurant prices rise with inflation, meaning tips at 15% would rise accordingly.

Having worked in the restaurant business years ago during college, I always overtip. But it's those tip jars everywhere else that drive me nuts-- Starbucks, ice cream parlors, everywhere. I don't like being made to feel bad because I don't tip for a cup of coffee. Am I the only one?

Maureen

there are drive throughs for Starbucks and what do you know they had a tip jar sitting there. Normally I do tip at Starbucks because as a Student we often sat there for hours working/studying discussing projects.
But seeing that jar sitting out there was annoying.

I too am annoyed with all the tip jars. Counter staff at coffee houses, delis, and so on are paid at least minimum wage. Unlike waitstaff, they are not dependent upon tips to make a living. They also provide a lot less service than waitstaff. I tip if someone comes to my table to take my order or bring my food.

I always figure, three times the tax.

3 times the tax - that's 21% where I live; I bet the servers like to see you :>)

Well, three times the tax would be a little generous here - like 25%. But I agree with MaureenB - having waitressed in college I know just how hard it is - and wait staff deserve a full 20% - assuming they are not really incompetent or rude.

If someone doesn;t have the money to tip - perhaps they shouldn't go out to eat.

(And the idea that the restaurant owners should pay staff more is not only unrelaistic - its counterproductive - they woulld not only add the additional cost to the price of food - they would also mark it up - costing the customer even more than giving it directly to the server.)

Well I don't pretend to know a great deal about labor laws, but I am curious about something. If a so-called minimum wage exists, why are restaurant owners able to ignore it with impunity and insist that their patrons make up their employee salary shortages with tips?

I'm just asking because I keep reading comments here about how wait staff are paid below minimum wage and need their tips to earn a living. Isn't that what minimum wage is all about? A guarantee of at least some sort of basic wage? (Yes, we all know that it's not enough to live on either, but that's not the point here.)

I read in a business journal somewhere that the reason for the rapid increase in the number of "convenience" restaurant chains (Pei Wei, Panda, Baja Fresh, Qdoba, etc. is the tipping issue, not time constraints or fussy kids or anything else. Customers want good, healthful restaurant meals without necessarily having to sit down, be waited upon and leave tips, which adds considerably to the price.

It certainly seems to be the case in a nearby rapidly burgeoning suburb. We went to a chinese sit down place one night and it was practically empty, while the nearby Pei Wei had an overflowing parking lot. Food was comparable. Only difference seemed to be the presence of a bar and waitstaff.

Went to our veterinarian today with our new kitty (an exotic shorthair, kind of like a persian but with shorter hair - what a dreamy little kitty cat :o) )and there was a tip jar for the groomer right on the front desk! I first thought it was lame, but I guess people put money in to help the groomer out, as their animals are the MOST important thing in the world to them other than their actual family.

Do you tip the groomer 15% too? Stop the insanity! :o)

Steve
Maryland

Jobs in which tips are expected are not subject to minimum wage laws.

>If someone doesn;t have the money to tip - perhaps they shouldn't go out to eat. <
The fact is they are going to go out and waitstaff will pay for their stinginess.

I find it interesting a lot of waitstaff are always ranting about customers not tipping enough rarely do I hear them complain complaints about restaurant owners not paying enough - so maybe it is more lucrative to rely on tips - unfortunately they are also subject to stingy, angry, disatisfied customers who will leave little to nothing.

Agree questionmotives, they should get at least minimum wage.

Speaking of tips....

So, you tip the esthetician 15-20% when you have a facial, right?

But what if you have a micro-dermabrasion done in a dermatologist's office, but performend by an esthetician... Do you tip a technician in a doctor's office???!!!

Depends on where you live, bjboothman. Oregon employers are required to pay at least minimum wage, regardless of expected tips. The resulting increased labor costs have kept several national chains from locating in the state.

On the tipping issue, with a usual tip of ten times the tax, I'm less generous than most here. ;-)

From personal experience, my husband has several restaurant ventures, if he starts paying his staff minimum wage, then the menu prices will reflect this.

Profit margins are very tight on food.

You think service can be lousy now? How many people have complained that the service is not good when gratuity is added?

Take gratuities away have find out what kind of waitstaff you get for minimum wage.

Got a better one, think of the workers out there that make minimum wage and that is who will be serving you your next meal.

Oh, yeah, I forgot tipping at the dog groomers and the hair salon and the... it never ends. I was once told that you don't tip if the service provider is the owner of the salon-- anyone else go by that rule?
And, I think when we were in Europe recently we way overtipped. One waiter in Munich told us they don't really expect tips there, so they must have loved we Americans who regularly tipped 20%!

Well, go figure --- you tip your hairstylist but not your dog's. Hair is hair, right? BTW, I don't tip the groomer, just being the devil's advocate here.

While in Venice last year, and at two different establishments, our waiter added his own gratuity into the bill!!! We questioned it and said we thought the price included the tip. He backed off, and said it was "suggestion." What a nerve!

And another thing....

Do you tip service people employed by a large company that do work in your home?

Such as the exterminator? The furniture delivery guys? The landscaper's employees?

If I was a server at this restaurant which had the customer arrested I would seriously think about the integrity of my employer and look for another job. If this would have gone to trial I have no doubt that the restaurant would have been black listed and went under.

again, whatever happened to the %15 gratuity, anything more at the discression of the tipper? that was the intent of debate in my original post...

"and wait staff deserve a full 20% - assuming they are not really incompetent or rude."

No, they deserve whatever they agreed to work for and whatever the customer feels like leaving. I tend to tip fairly well but I despise the idea that I'm somehow obligated to do so. Tipping is a reward. Once it's mandated (either formally or informally) it ceases to be a reward and becomes just another charge.

To questionmotives and gotravel:
Actually there IS a federal minimum wage for tipped employees: $2.15/hr. If reported tips do not bring the total to $5.15 (the regular min wage) then the employer must make up the difference. Most waitstaff only report the portion of the tips that equal $5.15/hr, thus saving tax on the difference. Here's the Dept of Labor website explanation:
http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

Another thought: more and more chains are forcing the employees to pool all their tips and divide them back up according to a percentage system (waitstaff 50%, busperson 20% etc)...some spread it out to include "back of the house" personnel too. Perhaps that's why the percentage has creeped up? Unscrupulous management can "pocket" some of these pooled tips before dividing it up, this happened to my daughter - and there's no way to prove what was collected from everyone. So remember, the waiter doesn't always see all of that awesome tip you just left!

Here's a question, which may have been answered but I didn't follow the earlier thread.

If you receive a delivery (ie, pizza) and there is a delivery charge already added to the bill, do you tip on top of the delivery charge?

Ok, as long as we're on the subject of tipping - how about the most worthless job that asks for tipping - bathroom attendants! I hate going to a a high end place , go in the restroom and there's a woman in there to hand you your towel, squirt hand lotion on you and spray you with your choice of perfume. Who made this job up! It's irritating to me. You feel guilty whenever you go in there if you don't throw some money in their little dish. What's everyone else's opinon on this?

"Message: Depends on where you live, bjboothman. Oregon employers are required to pay at least minimum wage, regardless of expected tips. The resulting increased labor costs have kept several national chains from locating in the state."

Are you sure about that beachbum? You're saying that waiters and waitresses in Oregon are paid mimimum wage by their employers?

Every good question deserves an answer, whether the answer is good is not.

Whatever happened to the 15$ gratuity? It's alive and well when I'm dining. :)

I went from 10% to 15% and that's as far as I will go, sob stories for wait staff or no sob stories. In most of the world, there is little or no tipping, so the wait staff in the US is spoiled as far as I'm concerned.

I don't try to be chinzy. I tip 15% regardless of where it is - roadside diner or high-faluting restaurante.

If the service is great, then the amount goes up accordingly. For example, on a recent cross country drive, we ended up pretty late at a Red Lobster. Not only were we treated royally, but the manager and the waitress came over and joked and recommended dishes. We had been driving all day and were VERY tired. We were also the last customers to enter and to leave the restaurant. The friendliness, the good humor at the very end of the day, and the good service deserved more. We tipped 30%.

Wish I could remember where that was, probably Erie, PA. Is there a Red Lobster in Erie? If so, please thank the manager and waitress for us - again! :)

If the charge is mandatory, then it's a "service charge" and the owner has to report the amount on his tax return (haha! think that will ever happen?). If it's a tip, then it's nonmandatory and totally voluntary as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, absolutely, the level of service has a lot to do with the added voluntary payment. If the level of service is below par, nothing in the world will induce me to pay the loutish waiter 18%, regardless of how many are in my party.

I once hosted a party of over 20 people. At the end, we were charged a "standard" 20% gratuity. I protested: the service had been lousy, we were treated as afterthoughts - the waitress had to be constantly flagged down - our portions were tiny (we saw what the other diners were being served), the food tasted so-so, etc. etc. Upon my protests, the manager immediately brought the tip amount down to 15%. Fine. That's MY standard tip. No problem. You don't have to take all this guff lying down, SPEAK up. It was clear that the waitress in the above example KNEW she didn't have to do anything to get her 20%. Sheeesh!

Well, I've said my piece. Peace, all! :)

Waitstaff tips out a percentage of gross sales. Example, if a waiter serves $1,000 worth of food and beverages, they tip out around 3% or $30. They usually don't pool tips.

Making waitstaff pool tips unless it is a very large group, hotel catering, or complicated head waiter, back waiter and waiter is unethical if not bordering on illegal.

The money paid to tip out is split between bartenders, bussers, and hostesses.

Joan, the above is common industry standard. Pooling tips for waitstaff is not industry standard and I highly urge your daughter to call the local labor board. I also highly urge your daughter to call the headquarters of whatever chain she is working for and report her managers appalling behavior.

Again, chain restaurants do not pool waitstaff tips.

Patrick, from my understanding, Waitstaff unions will indeed keep national chains out of certain locales.

I need to ask my husband on this. He's in an all day retreat with his managers so it may be in the AM.

I'm curious. How many of you who feel that it should totally be the responsibility of the restaurant to pay their employees full salaries would like to see on the menu next time -- "Please note. We have raised all our prices by 15%. It will not be necessary for you to tip the waiter."?

Where do you think the money is going to come from to pay them? Our of thin air? Obviously they need to add that much to their prices -- so do you prefer them to add it without telling you, or to add it and then tell you?
Personally I'd rather have the option of adding that extra money myself and rewarding better service with a little more, or lousy service with a little less. Holding out for a good tip is the only thing that encourages many servers to give good service.

Americans who rant about how slow or bad the service is in Europe will attest to the fact that an employee getting a full salary rather than trying to please customers to get bigger tips may not be the best solution for getting good service.

Yes, I am sure, Patrick. I used to be involved in the restaurant business here. And, Oregon's minimum wage is higher than the fed's, making it even more of an issue.

Yep, just keep raising them tips. Keep raising them food prices. And watch take out restaurants start to multiply at an even faster rate.

It's been a few years since I worked in hospitality (other than moonlighting as a night auditor) but Joan's description of the tax/tip situation is right on. Those same rules state that any money that a tipped employee pays out to others (busboy/bartender, etc) do NOT have to be reported. There is no requirement that anyone pay taxes on "x"% of there sales either, altho there is a situation of "allocated tips".

When tip pooling is done, the pooled moneys are ONLY supposed to be split among other sub-minimum wage workers who togeather put money INTO the pool. This would exclude management, cooks and all other back-room & back-office staff, as well as hostess, etc.

As previously advised, anyone working in a pooled tip environment who's supporting the cook, etc. should call the labor board.

In addition, more restaurant workers should unionize. Find me 10 waitresses who have health insurance thru their employer. Nothing ever comes to workers who sit back and wait for it, and rather get angry at the occasional guest who stiffs them, they should vent some of that anger at their employer or even theirself. Maybe the service given is not at the par the server imagines it to be.

Okay, just got off the phone with hubby.

Firstly, in a full service restaurant(be seated, sit, order, have food brought to you), not country club, hotel, or other such entity, it is against the law to pool waitstaff tips.

In order to pull waitstaff tips, you must submit a plan to your local labor board, request a review, and get it approved which is difficult.

Tipshare, when waitstaff tips out, it is against the law for a manager to touch that money. Another hourly employee (usually head wait) is the only one allowed by law to come in contact with the money.

Waitstaff labor unions.

Restaurants will try and avoid those areas for as long as possible. Because they must pay the employees more money, the menu prices will be more expensive. Example, go into an Outback Steakhouse in Midtown Manhattan and compare the prices with your local Outback. As the patron, you will pay the employees higher wages.

From my understanding with my husband, in some cases, Labor Dues are so high that the waitperson really doesn't end up making any more money.

My husband is an independent restauranteur but we have many friends in the 'chain' arena.

Gotravel, thanks for the advice. My daughter quit that job. I should say that it was a very small chain of three - and two of those closed afterwards - no wonder.

As for labor unions in restaurants, take a look at the Washington Ferries. They discontinued all galley service on all ferries this year, because no vendor would sign a contract. Why? They couldn't make a profit, between insurance costs, concession fees (they have to pay the ferry system a hefty percentage) and the $9-$14/hour starting pay of the union employees within.

How much are we willing to pay for our cup of railside Starbucks?

One last thing, if it were approved by a labor board for a restaurant to 'pool' tip money from waitstaff, again, it would be illegal for a manager to touch this money. It would have to be handled by an hourly employee not in management.