NYC Trip with Kids
 

so, we're back and had a great trip - what a fantastic city that is! once more thanks to all of you, you've helped making this one as smooth as possible! :-D

for what it's worth, I'm going to tie up some loose ends here, just in case these might be of interest to anyone. so, in chronological order from the beginning of this thread:

- steam funnels: it really was a dumb question. of course they are still around, of course it is impossible to predict where. if you walk around enough, you will get to see them (I think we had 4-5, plus a few 'smouldering' manhole covers and even once a steaming crack in the pavement)

- rooftop water towers: again, they are obviously still around. I realise now how impossible it is to describe where to go to spot them. the first one I already saw near Times Square, then a couple close to 5th Ave, loads between Chrysler and Empire State and even more around Flatiron. by comparison, the number to be spotted from the High Line was actually rather low...

- Vessel: so it re-opened right after we left. but I am not sad, I did not like it, nor that area, at all *shrugs*

- NYCT busses: we did use a few of them and they were not bad at all (esp. for crosstown, never used them as a substitute for subways though). one time they really let us down, though.

- NYC ferry: what a wonderful way to get around. turned out you can split and share the 10ride-tickets just as you want, like a carnet on the Paris metro - maybe the best bargain in town!

- luxury cars: oh boy, my boy got spoiled!! (I would need to elaborate on this) :-d

- airport transfer/Metrocard: went smooth. (during our six days, I racked up 12 subway, 4 bus and 2 Roosevelts, some of our group slightly less, yet the tickets definitely paid off.) and indeed, we could use the airtrain 10ride-ticket multiple times - so from two persons doing a return trip onwards it's a deal already - crazy, but I am not the one doing the rules/prices...

- famous building lobbies: I was surprised just where one could just walk in, e.g. Chrysler Building. Woolworth Building, on the other hand, made it quite clear with a signpost that they do not enjoy any tourists dropping by...

still working on that 'reverse jet-lag' back home here and doing a bit of daydreaming about all those places we did not make it to and which will have to wait for our next visit...

Glad it worked out, Nautiker. Where to next?!

I should say: NY again, of course, but scheduled is a week in Evolène/Valais after Christmas and drafting commenced on a fortnight in Scotland around Easter (Europe branch looks very savvy on that topic)... :)

back again once more here - not sure whether you are interested in a trip report about a place you all know so well, however I currently need a distraction and maybe some of you need, too...

Day One, October 14th

We (reminder: family of four + MIL + SIL) started from Frankfurt at 9am, aboard a Singapore Airlines 777. Right after take-off the plane took us on a quick spin around the city centre of Frankfurt to remind us one last time what a German 'skyline' looks like:
https://up.picr.de/48892105om.jpg

(and as you probably know, Frankfurt sometimes refers to itself as 'Mainhattan' (due to its location on the river Main) - most people rather jokingly, the local tourist board however with a straight face).

For me and the kids (g13, b10), it was our first intercontinental flight, and what to say: it was both exciting and dull. I prefer trains but this was not an option this time around. Beautiful clouds, though.

https://up.picr.de/48892106xq.jpg

I was aware that it would have been mostly water anyway, yet we got a peek of Newfoundland in the rising sun, which looked beautiful, like droplets of quicksilver on a dark ground - I could not adequately catch it with my rubbish phone cam, this is the best I got :-(

https://up.picr.de/48892078be.jpg

Then it was all clouds again until right before landing - our first glimpse of the United States!

https://up.picr.de/48892093eu.jpg

Arrival was around 11am and we found the immigration check (wholly contrary to our fears) almost deserted, ours was the only flight at that moment - we breezed through it in like 15mins, past a friendly and smiling (thorough nevertheless) officer. We got to the baggage belt before it even started moving.

On the Airtrain, getting a first, distant glance of Manhattan, I was astonished a) just how spread out the city is (well, one knows, but one just does not imagine what it looks like in real life) and b) how easy it was to tell apart the different buildings even from this far away (starting on the left with Brooklyn Tower and WTC, then the 'great plains' of the Villages, the new Hudson Yards on the right behind the hangar, the light limestone of the Empire State, then the massive new JP Morgan Chase with one of those pencil towers furthest to the right - nah, I cannot discern _all_ buildings!)https://up.picr.de/48892098ye.jpg
I love _any_ ride from an airport into a city. Even if it is just moments, it gives a tiny insight into a world one hardly ever gets to know otherwise...
https://up.picr.de/48892099hf.jpg

"A skyscraper's kindergarten" my kids joked:

https://up.picr.de/48892100jz.jpg

Well, except for the petrol truck, this looks alomst exactly like Köln-Porz (15mins from where we live) - did we really travel all the way for this? :-))

https://up.picr.de/48892101nr.jpg

travel downtown was swift and hassle free and so easy thanks to all your tips on here. so, first time coming up the subway stairs, blinded by the bright sky, there really was that feeling of (joyful) overwhelming that I had hoped to feel. complete awe. what. an. unique. experience. I don't know whether you locals do still experience your city this way, I sincerely hope you can. it's impossible to catch this moment in picture and vain and trite to describe it in words (at least I couldn't do it interestingly), so we have to just accept it it will resonate with me for a very, very long time (or is it 'very long, long time'?).

next thing I notice is that I, generally interested in architecture, have never given much thought about what kind of buildings Manhattan is actually made of. sure, there are famous old buildings and famous new buildings, some of arguable acclaim, but the rest? I never made up my mind. so, just turning around the corner into 40th st, I already get a great view of what lies ahead:
https://up.picr.de/48892102uu.jpg

The sleek glass curtain wall facade left of the middle belongs to the 1961 Spring Mills Building, an early international style high-rise. what a beauty! same goes for the building next to it, the 1913 World Tower, with its richly decorated and carefully restored terra-cotta fronts. Funny to imagine that once it stood out highly above its neighbours - well, guess that's valid for many buildings in New York... (and yes, obviously I had to look up both buildings, otherwise I wouldn't have been surprised!) I never realised there would be this variety, range and depth in style and quality basically wherever I stepped! What a delight!

quite in contrast, our hotel (right on the right of the World Tower in a deep, deep ravine, you cannot see it on this pic) had the dullest and most banal appearance one could imagine. I really wanted to take a picture but got bored trying. if you like, check streetview...

I won't go into detail about the hotel. it was an hotel. nothing wrong, friendly staff, clean rooms, a little make-up wouldn't harm. we selected it for its location and it was very good at that, imo. mind-bogglingly expensive from our point of view, though, but one of the cheapest places in Midtown that fit the travel standards of my MIL. ;-)

so, short rest stop here, will continue later.

oh, and if anyone knows how to mark this a trip report now: help kindly appreciated :-)

Great photos. I am glad you had a good time during your visit (and I can't wait to hear more).

I don't think you can mark a thread which started as a question as a Trip report later on. You could start a new thread, copy your photos etc and select the trip report option OR just keep posting here and everyone will know what you are getting at.

[P.S. - You have 7,650 views on this thread so far which is very impressive for the topic - and in a relatively short time. Most NYC questions barely make it to over 1,000 views].

We used your new posts to create a new Trip Report thread.

thanks, mods! :)

(I wouldn't have minded keeping the rest of the thread, though, if alone for context. so, anyone interested in the built-up to this, here is the link: https://www.fodors.com/community/uni...024-a-1724968/ )

and thanks for the thumbs up, nycguy. it's difficult for me to assess the #views, but I noticed they stuck out compared to some other threads (and I am still baffled that there are so few NYC threads at all...): my guess would be that 'New York + kids' is a frequent search term in general and thus generated some traffic - too bad, since though this is a trip _with_ kids, I fear it will be of limited use to other families, since we travelled with a rather standard tourists POV. maybe I should try to change the header *shrugs*

well, lets carry on.

from touch-down at JFK until crossing the treshold of our hotel it had barely taken us 2.5 hours, so this left us an ample chunk of the afternoon for a first look-around. another thing I had not considered is how compact Midtown Manhattan actually is. when we stepped outside on the street we were like: 'oh, down there is the NYT-Building already, so Times Square must be even closer, the Bank of America Building is just behind this block here and if we decide to set off in the other direction it's barely 10mins until we reach Grand Central Terminal!' it really is one big open-air museum!https://up.picr.de/48892103jy.jpg

futile attempt trying to catch the atmosphere: colours, bustle, noise, overpowering architecture. I've grown up in a reasonably sized city (~700.000 inhabitants), alas now living in lower-density, rather rural metropolitan area (community has a population less than 50.000), I really felt like a hayseed here (the German word would be 'Landei' ('farm egg'), my dictionary tells me hayseed comes closest: slightly pejorative, yet not outright offensive ;-) )

https://up.picr.de/48892107oe.jpg
our boy likes the 'Spiderman' movies and we had watched them again as a 'preparation' to this trip, however I hadn't been aware this is one of the places featured, I took this picture just because the situation looked so typical. when we came by again later there was a queue around the corner of the block...https://up.picr.de/48892108wo.jpg


obviously we were close to Times Square now. obviously it was really busy with tourists, however I am not sure whether we were not actually outnumbered by superheroes... I am usually reluctant taking pics of people, yet I could not resist trying a snap of Spiderman helping King Kong putting on his costume :-)
(it's weak, but it works as an aide-mémoire for me). I wonder how these people make money nowadays. do they get paypalled? contactless? we made the whole trip practically cashless, there would have been nothing we could have offered them...

https://up.picr.de/48892080nq.jpg

tourists doing what tourists do: taking pictures of snack stalls...

https://up.picr.de/48892079hj.jpg


M&M was a default stop for the kids and I made some default pics, e.g. this one ($10 for 1/2 pound? at home I can get a full kilo at that price, and we have had inflation, too! :horror:)

https://up.picr.de/48892082ij.jpg

BTW, this is what I meant in an earlier post: elevated, non-typical viewpoint, in this case from the 3rd floor of the M&M store - not a panoramic bird's eye-view, but not a standard streetview level, either. I like that.https://up.picr.de/48892083ut.jpg


on towards Rockefeller now, but Avenue of the Americas first. despite all those famous skyscrapers, this is actually what transports the most heavy 'New York'-vibes for me: 'countless', 'anonymous' high-rises blocking out the sky with a sort of casualness/naturalness that I only associate with Manhattan (and of course they are not anonymous but by Wallace Harrison, they just happen to be less famous):

https://up.picr.de/48892086uz.jpg

my phone camera might be crap, but if you try hard enough, you can gloss over its shortcomings with an occasional 360°-panorama now and then :toj:

https://up.picr.de/48892088lt.jpg

time for another short break :)

Great report, looking forward to more.

Wonderful report. It's so nice to see our cities through someone else's eyes.

thanks for the feedback! indeed, looking at other people's trip reports does often open up a different point of view to me (sometimes it works, sometimes it does not) :-)

I'll spare you the pics of Rockefeller Center (street level), however the restrooms in the basement I found noteworthy, in the sense of witnessing a real life manifestation of an ongoing international developement I so far only experienced as a theoretical debate (I'm not going to discuss, though):
https://up.picr.de/48892089lw.jpg


we are on 5th Ave now, looking at Saks, and I am once again contemplating the casual patriotism of the United States. the German Bundestag parliament building has five (big) national flags (four on its towers plus one big flagpole) and I cannot think of another building in Germany that might have more, but maybe I am just not thinking hard enough...

https://up.picr.de/48892090qx.jpg


meanwhile, and much more exciting: our first (albeit faint) manhole-steam!

https://up.picr.de/48892092lc.jpg


and I am really sad I visited too late (by a couple of years...) to experience those classical Crown Victoria cabs/police cars - this one got closest, but I wasn't fast enough, so just scroll on (maybe I will use AI to complete the picture... :-)) )
https://up.picr.de/48892091np.jpg


another 'sight' I had been determined to track down were those typical rooftop watertowers. we had the first one close to Times Square already, but it didn't make a decent motif. we got more luck close to a razed building site between 46th and 47th (if you're counting five water you are still missing one!) :-d

https://up.picr.de/48892095xj.jpg


and one more thing I hadn't realised: just how much building/demolishing/renovating there would be permanently going on. it felt like there was hardly a single street without some scaffoldings, pedestrian redirections, construction site fences etc. eyecatcher was, of course, the new JP Morgan Chase by Norman Foster. I really like the x-bracing, it's so bold and I enjoy being able to 'read' some of a building's statics. imo you cannot help but instantly consider it a reference to Fazlur Rahman Khan's Hancock Tower in Chicago, which I am perfectly fine with. this said, the building is really, really massive, I wonder how locals look at its impact on the skyline? (slightly cheating here: the pic is clearly taken from Times Square, since when we were on 5th Ave, it was just too close...)

https://up.picr.de/48892084an.jpg

on the other hand, just a few steps further south... any KPF fans on here? hopefully not. no. no, no, no. no! you just cannot put fake arches on a 21st century skyscraper. it's plain awful. who thought this would be a good idea? but then I am biased, I struggle to think of _any_ KPF building I like. what an eyesore!

https://up.picr.de/48892097tp.jpg


fortunately, this is Manhattan, so it's just another few steps on to this gem: 1953 Manufacturers Trust Company Building by SOM - maybe the prettiest post-war building in Manhattan that is not a high-rise? most of SOM nowadays I have a hard time enjoying, it's just too much standard investor's stuff, but this one really is a milestone. if I am not mistaken, there was not very much going on in Manhattan from the mid-thirties onwards, so if you compare this building to e.g. the Rockefeller Center, you realise what a giant leap in terms of architecture you can witness here. so glad it has been landmarked! (however ironically, despite being only a stone's throw away from our hotel, I never managed to return for a closer visit during our stay, well, that's travel dynamics. next time!):

https://up.picr.de/48892096sk.jpg


it's roughly 5pm now. we got up at 5am today - alas 6 hours farther to the east! naturally, the kids are totally spent, especially since we have walked like 6kms this afternoon. we know that it's recommended to adapt as quickly as possible to a new time zone, but we don't want to force them any further. when they hit the bed around 7pm, it's 1am in Germany already. our rooms hadn't been ready when we arrived just after noon, so it'a a great (and welcome) surprise when we discover we can see the Empire State from our window (sure, there are likely more spectacular views available, but we are not going to complain! probably cost quite a number of Karma points already...). End of Day 1 (where's the 'star eyes'-emoji? I cannot find it!)

https://up.picr.de/48892104ws.jpg

Really enjoying seeing the city through your eyes.

Don't put yourself down on picture taking - your cellphone pictures came out great.

I do agree with others that it is good to hear different points of view of Manhattan. When you live in or work NYC (I am talking of the City of NY as the five boroughs of which Manhattan is one - Manhattan is known as NY County for State of NY official records which is why when many people hear NYC they thing of Manhattan right away). I live in the Bronx (one of the 5 boroughs) which is just northeast of Manhattan and although I am retired I come into Manhattan quite often), after a while you tend to just accept what is there as "being there" and while you might take notice of something it may not stand out as something extra special (until it might come up in conversation).

In regard to your comment on the costumed characters in Times Square "I wonder how these people make money nowadays. do they get paypalled? contactless? we made the whole trip practically cashless, there would have been nothing we could have offered them..."
- These individuals are "independent operators" and work strictly for tips. Their presence while allowed is not sanctioned by the City Of NY (in fact there are those who consider them a nuisance but it could be considered as freedom of speech under the U.S. Constitution. The companies who own the copyrights on the characters don't bother to take legal action because it would take too long and cost a lot) . They are required to keep moving around and not stay in any one spot for too long (to avoid being accused of loitering). Any tipping by the public who take photos with them is strictly voluntary (there have been rare instances where the person did not get a tip and got a bit violent - that usually makes the TV news).

I am glad you were able to see some water towers as they are slowly vanishing as older buildings get torn down and are being replaced by modern skyscrapers.(such as the situation in the photo you took of 5th Avenue between 46th & 47th Streets).

Ah, Avenue of the Americas - call it what you will, but to a NYer it will always be 6th Avenue.

I want to add my thanks to the Mods for doing the "cut and paste" action in creating the trip report thread for you.

Please continue.

In case anyone wants more information on water towers. https://blog.americanpipeandtank.com...y-water-towers

naah, I am quite happy with the motifs, but the technical quality of the pics (focus, brightness etc) is just rubbish. or perhaps I am just discontent with the personal decline of my aspiration towards photography, given I started on high ambitions roughly 30years ago, with my own 2nd-hand manual Nikon FM, arranging with my arts teacher for the opportunity to use the school's photo lab in the afternoon to make my own b&w-copies, pondering which gradation of paper would suit best, carefully weighing my budget on the limited number of 35mm film I could afford etc, nowadays shooting an unlimited number of pics from my hip with lens and autofocus I would always have considered disgusting is just a weird development. or maybe I am just jealous that my SIL with her state-of-the-art iphone-pics' and carefree approach of point-and-shoot often look lengths the better... *shrugs*

good thing I am not gambling on numbers, nycguy, I would have bet that 10002 is your zipcode - but then maybe it once was? *laughs*

those superhero impersonators depress me. considering the sky-high costs of living, it should be impossible for them to make a living. we were approached by a sort-of Captain America a couple of days later and he left us his business card with all sorts of paypal details etc, maybe even a gofundme, I cannot recall in detail - but this cannot be a healthy basis for survival. or can it? it reminds me of poorer countries, where well-educated professionals like teachers or healthcare workers flock to the tourist industry where there is better pay as guides or chambermaids, but in a rich country like the US, there should be better paying jobs available even for the unskilled than entertaining tourists for tips?

fradiavolo - enjoyed your link about the watertowers. much appreciated! :-)

it's late/early over here, yet I will just kick-off with

Day Two, October 15th

anyway. woke up around 2am, which would have been 8am at home, actually rather late for me. so far I have never travelled more than +1/-1 timezones in my whole life, so time shift is really something I am unfamiliar with. tried to sleep again but didn't work. contemplated getting up and explore the city while it sleeps - would have done so instantly in case I had been younger and travelling without family, but not taking any chances this time. hoped to hear police car-sirens wailing in the distance, like in the movies, but it was just a quiet night, so eventually listened to the garbage collection passing by 18 stories below instead...

we were doing self-catering, so a decent bakery next to Bryant Park was a big plus for us:
https://up.picr.de/48899056pq.jpg


remember I told you about our hotel's facade 'yesterday'? I couldn't help it, I just had to look it up and screenshot it for you:

https://up.picr.de/48899055iy.png


daytime view from our window down on 39th St, 18 stories above the sidewalk (floor was labelled 19th but they really left out the 13th - I thought this was an urban legend!). rare chance to get a view of the city without perspective distortion ('stürzende Linien' / 'plunging lines' in German). not much of a looker yet actually, I like this pic a lot. (and: six more water towers in this pic!!)

https://up.picr.de/48899057bq.jpg

our boy is a big Tesla [car] fan currently, so I thought it would be a great joy to point out the 'Tesla [genius person] corner' so very close to our hotel to him, alas he was only mildly impressed (admittedly, electricity _is_ mysterical and hard to understand for most of us, including me, thus it is difficult to appreciate accordingly...) (and did you notice the greenish 1973 Salesforce Tower in the background? it's by Ely Kahn, who, while she was working in his office as research for her 'Fountainhead'-novel, introduced Ayn Rand to Frank Lloyd Wright - well, this was much earlier than that high-rise, obviously)https://up.picr.de/48899015jj.jpg
tourists doing what tourists do, part #35647: a subway entrance! funnily, in places like London, Paris or New York, public transport has made the cut being considered a sight in its own right - most other cities are still working on that! :-))

https://up.picr.de/48899016xp.jpgand did I mention we had fantastic weather throughout our stay? though it got much warmer again after we left, we could not complain at all. fantastic contre-jour atmosphere in Bryant Park:


https://up.picr.de/48899017rj.jpg

would have loved to spend all day there with a good book and a thermos bottle of tea...https://up.picr.de/48899018yn.jpg


when I was a kid, my father had a superb coffee-table book by (German) photographer Reinhart Wolf, who had specialised in large format (8x10) photography. the book was about 'portraits' of New York high-rises, focusing on the very tips of the buildings we so often hardly get to see up close. one of those buildings was the fantastic 1923 American Radiator Building, I was so very happy to get to see it, even if it was just from street-level:

https://up.picr.de/48899019ah.jpg

well, tired now, need some sleep...

Those bakery items in the photo are enough to put anyone off their diet (if they are on one).

In regard to the 10002 in my member name - no I have never lived in that zip code (the Lower East side of Manhattan). I have been using nycguy10002 for a long time (even before I joined the Fodor's community). I was a member of another travel forum that no longer exists and I just chose nycguy off the top of my head and had to add something afterwards to make it somewhat unique (someone had already taken nycguy). The numbers were somewhat random (although I knew that 100 is the prefix for zip codes in Manhattan). The 101xx and 102xx series are assigned to buildings/businesses in Manhattan (in addition to one in the 100xx series) that receive a lot of mail on a daily basis - it makes the electronic sorting at the post offices and subsequent delivery go easier). 10001 seemed to have been taken by someone else so I I just went up one to 10002. My own zip code is in the 104xx series which is assigned to the Bronx (the last 2 digits represent a 'zone' where there is a local post office from where they deliver mail for addresses in their local area. Brooklyn is 112xx, Queens is 114xxx, Staten Island is 103xx. There are other zip codes in the 110xx, 111xx assigned to businesses/buildings in other boroughs like is done in Manhattan.

To NYers those costumed characters are more of an annoyance than anything else. We tend to walk by them and barely give them a glance. There is one person, however who does get a lot of attention. I don't know if you saw him when you were walking in Times Square - "The Naked Cowboy". He is easy to spot as he is tall, wears nothing but a cowboy hat, cowboy boots and white underwear (briefs) and carries and plays a guitar. He is in his 50's now but started way back in 1999 and at first no one knew what to make of him (as no one had ever 'dressed' that way to appear in public there before). After a while people started to line up to get their picture taken with him (for tips of course) and he became something of a local celebrity and can be considered a part of the experience of Times Square. He even went so far as to copyright his likeness. More info and a picture here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_Cowboy

Nice photos of Bryant Park (even the subway entrance). Just a bit of history - from 1842 to the 1890s the land now occupied by Bryant Park and the NY Public Library building (on the 5th Avenue side) was originally the site of the Croton Distributing Reservoir supplying water to NYC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croton...ting_Reservoir

I like the photo you took from your hotel room. Most people (myself included) never look up at the sides pf buildings as we walk by (you probably noticed that NYers tend to walk at a faster pace than most).

Looking forward to your next days activities.

What a fun report -- thanks for posting.

The rest of the thread is still in place, it didn't go anywhere. ;)

That's how the forums work: Someone posts one or more threads asking for ideas and suggestions. And then when the trip is over they post a Trip Report' thread sort of as a pay it forward

Agree that most NY'ers, myself included consider the costumed characters to be more than a nuisance, as well as the guys trying to sell you bus tours every block, and of course unless going to a show or getting tickets for a show, avoid Times Square like the plague.

For future travelers - Saks has a great women's restroom. It is relocated now, but it used to have the best views of the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree.

we got spared the cowboy! :lol:

I guess if I lived in NYC, I would give Times Square a wide berth whenever possible. as a visitor, it was interesting, albeit unbearable pretty quickly.

the bustour/boattrip/musical ticket touts were a nuisance, imo a minor one though, since they are usually not obtrusive. and again, I have pity with them: my guess would be they get paid on commission only(?), it must be desperate trying to make a living from this. on day 4, we took the Staten Island ferry and while walking towards the terminal from Bowling Green, the street was literally lined with touts. the last one attempted to approach us when we were on the brink of entering the building and I thought like: 'guy, you _must_ know we have gotten past dozens of your colleagues already to get this close to the ferry - what are you hoping for?')

nycguy10002 fascinating to read about that reservoir, I didn't know artificial reservoirs this size existed. and it means you can have 'ancient' excavations even in Manhattan! (I know, there are a few more in the Financial District)

what other forum had you been on? I recognize a handful of handles from Thorntree, yet if I recall correctly, these guys/gals have always been 'dual-citizens'. but then I stuck mostly to the Europe-branches there, thus far from getting to know a lot of them.

Madam397 ohh, though I would not have been able to go to this specific one, I just love toilets with a view! e.g. the men's toilets on the sailing vessel/youth hostel 'Chapman' in Stockholm have a fantastic view of the royal castle and there is a youth hostel toilet in Oyndarfjørður on the Faroe Islands with a view of the fjord/sea that makes you want to sit for a long time...:love:
toilets, in general, should be given much more priority in architecture. some famous architecs give it barely a thought, e.g. the new Elbphilharmonie in Hamburg by Herzog/deMeuron: they always put so much thought in any detail and all the materials, but here: awful (at least the few there are in the public area), not better than a highway reststop. or Calatrava: his toilets are most often very mundane, too, one would really expect better, considering his extravagant style! I could elaborate! ;)

well, let's carry on

as mentioned before, it's indeed just a short stroll from our hotel/Bryant Park to Grand Central Terminal. to think they intended to knock it down!https://up.picr.de/48905608wj.jpg

and they still have elevators with mechanical floor indicators (or what do you name them?)! I think I have only ever seen them in b&W-movies...

https://up.picr.de/48905607gr.jpg


another thing I didn't knew: that there are two sets of tracks, a more elegant upper level...

https://up.picr.de/48905605op.jpg...and a slightly eerie lower level. (before posting this, I wondered for a moment whether American tourists would post pictures of German commuter trains on this board, but then I checked and: they do!)
https://up.picr.de/48905609jl.jpg


outside on Lexington: our first 'full-size' steam vent! ticked off the list! :-)

https://up.picr.de/48905606mh.jpg



again, this city is so compact: just another shortest of strolls across Lexington Ave to Chrysler Building

https://up.picr.de/48899025eb.jpg


when I entered, at once I had a concierge at my side who explained to me where I was allowed to amble and where not: firmly, but very friendly at the same time. he then pointed out not to forget looking upside for the beautifully decorated ceiling :-) (alas pic turned out rubbish :-( )

https://up.picr.de/48899026ea.jpgmy wife says she likes this one better in b&w, however I think the somber colours and alabastrine lights are essential to this era, almost the same inside Rockefeller and to some extent even Empire State. funny, that there was a time when 'dark', 'pressed' and ornamented was so prevalent, and only a few years later architecture took such a complete turnaround...

https://up.picr.de/48899027wg.jpg
next destinations on our list were Empire State and Flatiron, for some reason we opted againt the subway and walked instead: good decision, as it turned out.

bear with me, just one more time: 600 3rd Ave by Emery Roth & Sons from 1971. I just love those slabs. my guess would be that if it is something that impressed you when you were a kid, it sticks with you, even when at a closer look the architecture is not that special. *shrugs*

https://up.picr.de/48899028cw.jpg


certainly one of the greatest things when you travel is that you can pretend not to understand the language, even if you know a few shreds: 'frozen custard fries'? wonder what they taste like.. (or is this a thing?) :toj:

https://up.picr.de/48899029la.jpg

I wasn't aware the US belongs to the list of countries where you have to get alcohol from a liquor store (or at least we did not see any in supermarkets).https://up.picr.de/48899030gv.jpg

and I wasn't aware that there are hills in Manhattan outside of Central Park! (these two children are helping a lady up the incline, though not for the steepness but because she kept taking photos of water towers...)https://up.picr.de/48899031qv.jpg

I wrote it was a good decision to walk towards the Empire State beause we came through an area we had never intended of visiting, and I doubt it features in a lot of guidebooks, either. very quiet and relaxed, slightly run down now and then but not unpleasantly so. this building caught my eye. I still struggle to make sense of that staircase, as it is definitely by design, however there is just no other element on the facade that picks up on this folly...https://up.picr.de/48899032qa.jpg
as before: it's a 360°-city...https://up.picr.de/48899033yn.jpg


...and outside/inside:

https://up.picr.de/48899034sc.jpg


corner 5th/W31: I enjoy spotting buildings like this one. there is so much character in the way the windows are divided. such a subtle way to add beauty to architecture at very little cost.
https://up.picr.de/48899036pa.jpg


aah, damn, Flatiron is in scaffoldings. remembering I read it was scheduled for restoration works but we hadn't drawn the obvious conclusion. enjoyed a short break on the park benches of Madison Square, then it was time for a change: subway northbound to E86th.

Think you might have enjoyed having this book with you:

Wow - you really got around that day.

To answer your question - I have only been on 2 other forums - One was Yahoo!! Answers (which was discontinued a number of years back and another whose name I don't remember (which is also no longer in existence). In Fodors i tend to stay in the NY forum and sometimes in the NJ forum. On an occasion or two I might have had something to contribute to a forum of one of the other states.

On the photo of the elevator in Grand Central Terminal - you got it right. It is known as a "round elevator floor indicator dial".

Speaking of Grand Central Terminal - you might be interested to know that the current building is actually the 3rd building to occupy that site. The first was called Grand Central Depot which opened in 1871. It was rebuilt/replaced by a larger building with greater capacity called Grand Central Station which opened in 1900. The current building opened in 1913. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ntral_Terminal (there are some photos of the older buildings on the wiki page). It should be noted that while the railroad building is called Grand Central Terminal, the subway station(s) are called Grand Central Station. I say stations because you have the original 1904 station which became part of the 42nd St Shuttle in 1918 and is located under 42nd St between Vanderbilt and Madison Avenues, and then you have the Lexington Avenue line station opened in 1918 and is actually diagonally situated from Park Avenue across 42nd St to Lexington Avenue. However, lots of people (including our local news people) get the names mixed up in that they call the terminal Grand Central Station. But in truth most people just say Grand Central for all of it and the message gets across.

Staying in Grand Central for a little more. You mentioned the slightly eerie lower level. There are a few more levels below which contain support (mechanical, electrical etc) structures for the building and railroad (but not the subway which has its own support structure). Way down deep (175 feet) there are 4 more tracks - 2 each on 2 levels - for Long Island Railroad trains which opened in January 2023. It is formally called Grand Central Madison but I call it 'The Grand Central Cavern' because that it is what it looks like to me.

As to the liquor sales - it varies from state to state. In NY and NJ supermarkets can sell beer and lower alcohol content drinks (used to be called "wine coolers" years ago). Otherwise wine and other alcoholic drinks must be sold in licensed liquor stores. In Massachusetts their laws allow grocery, package, and convenience stores to sell liquor, wine, and beer.

I found that photo of the building with the outside staircase quite interesting. My guess is that the building is not that old possibly 25 years or less and that the apartment that the staircase serves is built as a bi-level one. However, judging from the child-safety bars on the lower windows in the window frames I would say that while fully functional that staircase is more, as you said, for design (and a higher cost for rent or purchase).

You walked from the Chrysler Building (42nd-43rd St) down to Empire State (34th St) and then to Flatiron (23rd St)? Nice. You got in a good mile or so of walking in that. I have done that a few times. It is a good thing the weather was very favorable. It is a shame though that your visit was after Labor Day (in September), you could have seen the 'portal' located next to the Flatiron Building which was streaming a live picture (but no audio) from a similar type street area in Dublin, Ireland.

Of course there are hills outside of Central Park (By the way - in that photo I think your son was doing most of the work). There are lots of them in the northern part of Manhattan. I'll give a quick example - 155th St & St. Nicholas Avenue is about 75 feet or more above 155th St & Frederick Douglass Boulevard (formerly 8th Avenue). To get from one to the other you have to use a steep staircase. I tried it once - both up and then down (thankfully I was much younger then).

One more thing - Frozen Custard Fries? Other than from Shake Shack no one has ever heard of that. I ate once at a Shake Shack - I won't again. Frozen Custard is a nice snack but in fries form - eeewwwwww.

Thanks, nycguy10002!

Loved all the details on Grand Central and the NYC hills—I had no idea about the “cavern” levels for the LIRR.

Quick question: Have you ever been to Morning Glory Farm on Martha’s Vineyard? It’s a cool spot with fresh produce and a fun food truck.

_thanks_! it's not even that expensive, I'll consider putting it on my Christmas wish list! as said before: there are just so many quality buildings you hardly ever hear/read about...
only disadvantage: they really ought to schedule a fresh edition

oh, he got spoiled plenty! :toj:
I am coming to this one, you'll just have to wait a little longer..

but it's not even noon! the only good thing about that time lag: we were usually awake at 6am (12pm at home) and ready to leave before 8am. this said, despite the ample amount of time we had in this city (reminder: 4 full, 2x 1/2 days) we covered too much ground at too quick a pace. and my MIL is not known for idling, either...

[/QUOTE]On the photo of the elevator in Grand Central Terminal - you got it right. It is known as a "round elevator floor indicator dial"[/QUOTE]

cliché has it we Germans turn everything into compund words, so I'll give you a 'Fahrstuhlstockwerksrundanzeiger' for that.

and speaking of Grand Central: it really is a cathedral. any of your writers ever considered putting a hunchback or some other disfigured person in there and turn it into a novel?

it's a shame there are no longer long distance trains departing from there, there should be a direct transcontinental one from New York to San Francisco, without the need to change in Chicago...

too bad I didn't knew about the Madison station, made me curious now, this building really is a maze...

getting older, I start seeing the upsides of having strong liquor in dedicated stores only, otherwise it is just so very accessible (like over here).

mmmh, I would say that building is slightly older, maybe even late 1980ies - but that doesn't help us, still a mystery. floors look awfully narrow, too

the portal that was shut down so quickly? I read about it...:toj:

now that you mention other hills, I recall seeing several staircases in Tudor City, but that's day 3 already...

and maybe it isn't 'frozen fries' but the 'fries' shakes' further to the right? with these stylish listings, you never know where they expect you to put the hyphens *shrugs*

Uh - nope -- that is just the middle of the sign. It reads like this: Burgers - Frozen Custard - Fries - Shakes - Hot Dogs - Cones.

janis, I know, I know. I was trying make a bit of humor out of Shake Shack's poor design and placement of signage. I guess I should have tried harder.

paulrook, you're welcome and while I am at it - Welcome to Fodor's.

No, I have not been further northward than the Boston and Salem areas of Massachusetts

UM -- my bad . . . I usually get sarcasm but my radar must have been down :)

wanted to avoid those typical tourist snapshots, however reflecting my earlier posts, obviously there is a prettier post-war non-high-rise in Manhattan, so kudos Mr Wright. (when I was young, I once got gifted a Frank Lloyd Wright cut-and-assemble paper model of Robie House in Chicago - actually much too difficult for my age, but got me hooked...)https://up.picr.de/48911333cy.jpg


boy gets spoiled part I: not sure you are aware, but the Tesla Cybertruck (currently) has no certification for Europe, so the kids over here all only know it from the media. I had looked up the opening times of the Tesla Showroom in Chelsea, however real-life beat me to it. pure chance encounter, a few minutes after we had spotted it, it drove away. boy very much delighted.

https://up.picr.de/48899043vp.jpg

boy gets spoiled, part II: just a few minutes later, slightly north of the Guggenheim, we came across this Lamborghini. even better: the owner (boy half my age) noticed us and let my son take a seat behind the wheel for a moment! boy even more delighted...
https://up.picr.de/48899044bz.jpg


fast forwarding past Metropolitan Museum, albeit: we needed to head for the restrooms, located behind a side entrance, where there were also educational facilites for school-groups etc, and they had lined the walls with children's art. now my wife is an elementary school arts teacher and therefore I am aware just what kids are capable to achieve, starting from an early age, and what was on display here was really excellent (well, they won't put up just any pic I guess) - my photos turned out rubbish, so I am not posting, but next time you go to the loo there consider giving the kids' art a closer look, it's worth it. imo arts is much undervalued at schools and I am sorry that it is so often neglected (our kids barely got much arts education so far, sigh...)

you all know what Central Park looks like, so I spare you the squirrels, but this guy stopped me in my tracks: Friedrich Schiller? what he's supposed to do here? he has definitely never visited America and I am not aware of _any_ relations whatsoever. maybe some local guy with the same name? I looked it up at home and was surprised: apparently, it's the _first_ monument added to Central Park: "The monument to Schiller was one of several donated by groups of European immigrants who sought to see themselves represented in the City’s premier public space, to signal their inclusion in American life." ( https://www.centralparknyc.org/locat...f-von-schiller ). it now gives me some food for thought: I wonder how nowadays society would react if a group of immigrants decided something similar: placing a bust of their national poet in a most prominent public space. I would love to say it would be welcome, yet given the current debate on immigration and inclusion, my honest answer is that I do not know. (I can only answer for my own country).https://up.picr.de/48899046qz.jpg


ah, well, one picture of Central Park. when I showed this to my father, he was quite baffled: he last visited New York in the late Sixties (the WTC was still under construction), and the skyline towards the park was notably different then :toj: what baffled _me_ actually was the Nordstrom Tower/Central Park Tower: to me, the 'minimal aesthetic' approach more of translates to triviality and blandness. once I turned my view away from the building, I had instantly forgotten what it looked like. at a cost $ 3 billion, I would expect a building to make a longer lasting impact on my memory, but then I am not the target group.

https://up.picr.de/48899049fi.jpg

Very, very nice.

There is an old saying that doesn't get used much these days: "Anything can happen in New York" (to which I add the words: "especially when you don't expect it:).

The encounters you mentioned about your son and the Tesla and later on the Lamborghini certainly fit that saying (as you told us he likes luxury cars). I would also include the children's artwork at the Met Museum and your wife being a elementary school arts teacher. There are just some things you can't plan for.

It's not only Schiller! There's a bust of another celebrated German, Alexander von Humboldt, on Central Park West at West 77th Street. Fittingly, it's just down from the Natural History Museum.

often, 'the unplanned' are the things most rewarding travelling for. one has to try to create as many situations as possible that might induce such occurences. and given that all the big endeavors and discoveries have already been done, the rest are merely stopgaps and solatiums. ;-)

didn't spot him, yet at least Humboldt visited the US (though not NY afaik)!

oh my, if I don't speed up here, we won't be finished before Christmas - please let me know if I tire you!

we had decided to put the Rockefeller Center at the end of day two: on the one hand to culminate our first full day, on the other to have wiggle room in case the weather might turn out less than perfect, so we could switch to another day - but then the sky could not have been fairer and we went. :) like many tourists, our objective was to arrive just before sunset, take in the views and then admire the city lights. my SIL had warned that there would presumably slow moving queues and lots of delays and therefore urged to pick a slot as early as possible, which translated into something like 4.45pm (with sunset being 6.15pm...). on the plus side, we got there before the crowds and the whole ascent was as punctual, quick and smooth as one could wish for, probably less than 15mins (incl a mandatory video show). as a downside, this elevator ride cost our group of 6 quite exactly $ 350, which I deem quite much, but then they know they can just ask that price - the views really are stunning! sorry, you will have to cope with some standard tourist pics now: (how often do you locals venture to climb up one of those viewpoints to check how your city has changed?)


https://up.picr.de/48923562ns.jpgit is funny that the JP Morgan Chase is even more impressive when you are already high up and you realise that it's still so much taller than the position you are in! (fun fact: at 259 metres, the Rockefeller Center is precisely just as high as the highest building in Germany) with a scheduled heigth of 423 metres, we are looking at a skyscraper on top of another skyscraper here...

https://up.picr.de/48923564wg.jpg


found a positive thing to say about the Nordstrom Tower: 'does reflect sky, clouds and sunlight nicely'

https://up.picr.de/48923557sc.jpg


what fascinates me about this skyline is that it appears so everlasting and ever-changing at the same time...

https://up.picr.de/48923563dc.jpg


while waiting for dusk, we mused about the different types of window cleaning rigs we could spot - and sometimes could not spot! are there skyscrapers in NY that don't wash their windows?!? or do they just open the windows and lean out!?! :horror: on more funny thing: the 'standard' water towers discretely hidden behind concealing walls...

https://up.picr.de/48923559mt.jpg
it started to get busy fast now, and the 'best' places filled up quickly with people seeming determined to defend their ground until midnight - however at a closer look it was actually quite a gentle crowd: those adamant to capture from their vantage points every single nuance of dusk often freely stepped aside for those just longing to take a quick snap. therefore it was a constant shuffle, but everyone appeared quite happy with this arrangement. I must admit I am torn about these motifs: while they are spectacular to experience, I am often at a loss about what to do with the pictures. like sunsets, rainbows and other phenomena like northern lights, once you turn them into a wallpaper or print, the magic dissolves and they turn into kitsch. *shrugs*


https://up.picr.de/48923558sx.jpg

interposed question: can anyone explain to me why there's a Dutch flag atop the Bloomberg Building? google yielded no quick answer. it seems the tip can display all sorts of colours, yet most often it's just striped red/white/blue... (and Bloomberg might sound Dutch, but isn't)
(another fun thing to do in order to pass time was trying to spot empty floors - there were surprisingly many!)

https://up.picr.de/48923560hd.jpg


our real problem now was the time lag PLUS spending a full day in the city. I don't have those specific apps on my phone but my daughter told me she had racked up more than 22.000 steps that day. it was 6.30pm (i.e. 0.30am 'at home') and though I would have _loved_ to spend longer up there, it just wasn't feasible. we even took the subway for a single stop from Rockefeller to Bryant Park and I am not sure the kids weren't asleep already before(!) they hit the cushions... *grimace emoji*

https://up.picr.de/48923561jy.jpg

Great skyscraper photos (day and night versions).

You asked: "(how often do you locals venture to climb up one of those viewpoints to check how your city has changed?)"
- I would say not very often. We tend to spend more time looking at ground level than wondering about what is up above. It is also easier to know which building is which way down on the ground, That doesn't mean we don't appreciate the views when we do see them (one way or another). One of our local TV stations (WNBC Channel 4) uses live views of the upper portions of buildings very often as background for newscasts (the newscasters sit at their desk and the views are behind them). This station is located in 30 Rockefeller Plaza and has multiple cameras mounted on the Observation Deck of the building.

...are there skyscrapers in NY that don't wash their windows?!? or do they just open the windows and lean out!?!"I

No to the first part and in older buildings where the windows do open the answer is yes.

In older buildings window washing contractors still use the manual scaffolds on ropes to lower and raise themselves along the outside of those buildings. As an aside - every couple of years or so there is a news report of one these rigs failing and the Fire Department has to go and rescue those workers (many time opening a window, if it opens, or breaking the window if it doesn't.
And believe or not there are still some older buildings where the windows open in one way or another (some swing in on hinges (usually top inward) located in the window frame, some can swing inward or outward.

Why does the top floors of the Bloomberg Building get lit up in Red, White and Blue? Well, they are the colors of the United States - need I say more?

sorry, a delay was necessary, I just can't keep up the pace...

well, window cleaner in Manhattan is something I would not like doing. I wonder whether they get at least paid well.

"Why does the top floors of the Bloomberg Building get lit up in Red, White and Blue? Well, they are the colors of the United States - need I say more?" - while I obviously cannot deny this, the same applies to so many other countries in the world, from Taiwan via France to Chile. arranging the colours in stripes just does not make an obvious connection to me, the LEDs ought to be able to show a more distinct display, shouldn't they? :-)


so, it's
Day Three, October 16th

while we had decided to spend rather little time in museums on this trip, my MIL had insisted we visit the UN. I was a bit reluctant, since I consider organisations like this a topic that usually translates weakly into an organised tourist visit. the visitor's website had been very discouraging in bringing bags and backpags, therefore we arrived empty handed, only to discover that the 'only very small bags allowed'-rule actually gave leeway up to the ample size of messenger bags... there would have been a German language tour, alas we realised too late, thus stuck with an English one. first thing to notice: maybe one of the nicest views of the Chrysler Building:https://up.picr.de/48938493sb.jpg
guided tours are a tightrope act: guides do the same tours day in day out, like assembly-line workers, it's often just a small step to just reel off your text. ours did a good job trying to engage the group, still, it's difficult to elaborate beyond basic stuff when you have less than 60 mins. this display we found quite moving: _current_ amount spent on military worldwide, starting _each day_ at midnight. I forgot to ask the guide that the clock display likely should be expanded by a digit to keep up. I am not too naive to realise we cannot do without military and that it's a compilation of worldwide expenses, still, I often wonder what else one could accomplish with that amount of moneyhttps://up.picr.de/48938495rb.jpg


I didn't know that much of the UN is basically a warehouse for presents by world's governments. some are on display, some are famous (like the Knotted Gun in the courtyard), probably many are stored someplace, some are just awful. here'a a rare on I enjoyed, from Benin:

https://up.picr.de/48938494fj.jpg

well, it _is_ nice to whiz through the great Assembly Hall, even if it's just high up on the visitor's balcony, but it doesn't tell you a lot about the limits and struggles of this organisation. view from outside Assembly Hall, down to the lobby.https://up.picr.de/48938496qq.jpg
I considered it funny that the UN has its own merch shop, however I was disappointed to find their marketing board completely missed out on the most obvious opportunities for in-house brands: 'UNread' (new books on world politics), 'UNorganised' (desktop accesoires), 'UNderwear' (bodywear fashion line) and so on - where can I apply?

so, the 'no bags' rule had resulted into us leaving everything at the hotel (a mile away). since our next objective was taking the ferry from nearby E35th pier to Brooklyn, two of us hurried back to fetch our stuff, while the others ambled towards East River and bought the tickets.

right next to the UN, a building was being enclosed by scaffoldings, and the safety nets that were being pulled up gave it the air of giant veilshttps://up.picr.de/48938497ba.jpg


nearby: giant bricks by the NYPD

https://up.picr.de/48938499hl.jpg


on our way back: Chanin Building near Grand Central, would have loved to look closer, but too much in a hurry :-(

https://up.picr.de/48938472mi.jpg

tbc

Years ago I worked in the Chanin Building. It was always a treat to come to work and see the lobby area. The ground floor store that appears to be for rent was in my day, a Howard Johnson restaurant. I also once worked at 630 Fifth Avenue and the window overlooked the skating rink and the tree. Years ago the tree lighting wasn't a major televised spectacle. You looked out the window and the tree was lit, people in buildings that overlooked the area flicked the lights on and off. I cannot recall what government agency was in the building or from what country but there was visible security that anyone noticing would easily be aware of. Not so when I worked in an office building on Second Avenue directly underneath the Israeli Consulate. I am sure that there was security but the building lobby and elevators were open to anyone and anyone could have taken an elevator to my floor and back then it seemed a bit lax to me.