I'm pretty liberal politically, many would say I'm somewhere left of the left. But when it comes to unions, I have a little bit of a different attitude. Maybe it's because I worked at a union headquarters and saw the abuse and corruption and the constant bullying by union officials who thought they could order us around and made not so veiled threats if we didn't go along. In any case, I don't think anyone is saying that these people don't have a right to try and get better salaries and benefits, more power to them if they can. BUT, to expect every entitlement under the sun with absolutley no giving on their part is greedy, unrealistic and just plain ridiculous. Contract negotiations are just that-- a negotiation. There is always a quid pro quo. But these people think they should just get whatever they want with nothing given in return. It is this union mentality that I have come to despise. The "we deserve" attitude with no room for compromise. They can stay and bargain till the cows come home to get what they want if they so desire but they do not have the right to walk off the job. Period. This was not a public safety issue like the air traffic controller's gripes were. This was greed, plain and simple, and Toussaint trying to throw his weight around. The lesson here is if you want to get, you also have to give. Like the song says, "you can't always get what you want..."

QC--Thank you for your words. Yes, the strike was illegal and the union should not have taken this action but it is my understanding that the other side refused to even sit down with the union and negotiate prior to the strike beginning.
The fact is that without unions in this country many Americans could not live the life they lead or have the working conditions which they have.
Is anyone really interested in going back to the pre-1900's sweat shops or child labor, or unsafe working conditons very common before union activism?
Most American workers are not part of a union yet they benefit from all of the gains that union workers have made for them over many years of sacrifice.
I am very happy to hear that the strike is over and hope that the city can get back to normal very soon.
To all my friends in New York and elsewhere, best wishes and Merry Christmas.

Sorry samschack, you have it totally wrong. The MTA and the TWU had been bargaining for quite awhile before the strike took place. That is why the first strike deadline, last Friday at 12:01am came and went with no srike called. The MTA gave in on just about everything the TWU asked for, except they asked that new hires contribute 6% towards their pensions. That was more than the TWU wanted but instead of saying, no, we'll offer 3% (current workers pay 2%) they just walked out and went on strike.

Unions once played a very important role, and in some instances, still do. But some of us are just fed up with their tactics and their ideas of entitlement to whatever they want.

Well said Laurie. By the way I consider myself an independent - fiscally conservative, socially liberal but not particularly fond of the government interfering in my affairs.

I'm with you Craig, feel the same way.

This has been excellent reading... and no one has been nasty.
How's that for holiday spirit ;)

Again, I hope that I made the point that I did not condone what the union did in this situation. I simply felt that there were some very negative posts regarding unions in general.
I have never belonged to a union but it troubles me to read some of the posts and the negative comments regarding people who happen to be members of unions. For the most part, union members are good, decent people trying to make ends meet and keep their families safe and well. Isn't that what America is all about?

samschack, I believe you are right. I'm sure the majority of union workers are decent. It's the leadership who are corrupt and feed the members a line of garbage and fantasy in order to make them think they have the members' best interest at heart when all they are interested in is keeping their power and getting rich at the members' expense. The workers in many cases have no choice but to go along, sometimes because they don't know any better, and also because they will be ostracized if they don't.

I used to be totally pro union, in keeping with my liberal politics. But after working for one at the union headquarters, for 13 years, I came to hate them. Which is a shame because I recognize that in some cases they are necessary. But the fact is, many, but not all, unions are corrupt organizations not all that different than organized crime. When you really see what goes on and you have been the target of their constant bullying, you sour on them.

In my personal experience with three different unions, all in totally different fields, bullying is an extremely polite word to use for the tactics used upon their own members and non-members alike. In two cases I have witnessed physical assaults that were definitely felonies.

The intimidation and "protection" schemes used are similar to organized crime. In fact, in one case they were the same people.

In my area of the country, in all three unions for which I have considerable personal knowledge the biggest legacy, way beyond the artificial pricing of salaries, has been the immense protection for the poor or mainly absent worker. These "workers" and I use the word charitably, simply could never be carried in a working profitable free market system. It's the total "lowest common demoninator" factor that kills my support of any unions.

And you think just because a person is Union and vested over 10 or more years that person has great skill and is good at what he/she does? You should hear some of the nicknames used. Fireproof and Napper are two that come to mine. And they both still are no where close to being "laid off." No consequences for either excellent or negligence where I've been. Which is terrible for community on the whole.

Just got home from my final walk from work, another 71 blocks. We are giving blood tomorrow near my office to help with shortage, but that's a regular event anyway.

I think my feet are just about finished and am hoping that some kind family member will give me a foot massager (either human or machine!) for xmas!

Interesting to read some of the comments and opinions here about the illegal strike.

Am extremely interested to know if QC, who opened this thread, and offered some lengthy opinions, had to walk any distance to get to work in NY this week, or had any kids who missed school time, or had any friends or family who needed transport for serious medical reasons? QC? Just curious....

.

Strange. Seems the opinion is that corporations have entitlement rights (unlimited profits, CEO compensation at 500X that of workers) yet workers should roll over with whatever management dictates?

It's the blood, sweat and tears of LABOR that makes companies what they are. The workers who actually create the product or service being sold have a reasonable expectation to a share of the yield, instead of being tossed aside like used toilet paper when management thinks they can find cheaper labor.

Since it IS the season, why not read some Chrles Dickens, starting with "A Christmas Carol"?

And if you think unions are of no use then don't forget to work next Labor Day.

rx_traveler-
I'll reread A Christmas Carol, if you'll take a minute to read the Taylor Law, which prohibits walk outs such as the one we just experienced for very valid reasons.

And maybe take a second minute to contemplate that the Union leadership in this case did not have the full agreement of it's membership, or even other Union Leadership.

The working conditions and good salaries they already have even before negotiating a new contract in no way excuse the harsh attack they brought on the working public, the impoverished, the disabled, the small business owners, and the children of NYC, or the billion dollar dent they just made in NY's economy.

Blood, sweat and tears? Many of these "poor guys" live extremely well, and that's not even including the fake overtime punched in by many, which fattens their wallets by thousands each year.

I say take some of that 8% raise they were demanding this year and use it instead to keep our fares from going up again. Let them have fair working conditions, equal to those of our firefighters, policemen, and teachers. Greed is greed, plain and simple.

I was watching NY1 last night (a local NYC cable channel) and on a call in show, a transit worker called in and said that he was very happy to go back to work and that he and the majority of workers didn't want to strike, didn't agree with the strike and were angry at the union leaders for calling it, but the vast majority were too afraid to say anything or cross the picket lines. I will repeat what I said earlier, unions are not democracies, they are dictatorships.

laurieco-I have belonged to 2 unions in my life, and agree that they are most deffinitely not democracies.
In this case, I think many NYers know very well that this was a militant bullying action brought by union cronies at the top of Local 100, who did a real disservice to their membership by making such a pathetic judgement call to walk off the job, coupled with a terrible sense of timing, which only resulted in 1000 bucks or so out of each member's pocket in fines.

bellastar, I'm really torn on how I feel about the fines on the individuals. While I believe the union itself should pay the 1 million per day and will be very angry if that fine is forgiven, I'm not sure I want the individual members to pay. The rational me says they should, they walked when they already earn a decent wage and have good benefits, and many are incompetent and would never last in the private sector. But the bleeding heart liberal in me feels sorry for them and feel that they may have been intimidated into this strike.

Based on my reading of the strike, most workers didn't want it and Toussaint seemed to use it as a grandstanding measure (did anyone read in the Post or Daily News about his big meal at Harlem Grill?).

The idea that the workers are slaving away for nothing is completely false. If you read the terms of the proposed deal that Toussaint walked away from, you'd see that many private employees would be lucky to get any of the guarantees that the workers get.

QC, if you go back and reread my thread, I wrote that in the private sector people get fired.

My final opinion on this, I think Toussaint is a bad leader and a famewhore.

Nothing good would come of this strike.

I feel for the MTA workers who will have to pay the fines and shoulder the brunt of the resentment.

laurieco-
I can empathize with the conflicted feelings towards some of the picketers, but my bleeding heart liberal leanings were used up last night while walking home as I passed the Christmas Market vendors at Columbus Circle who suffered such huge losses for thier investment, and others affected by these actions. They lost a day's wages for every day they stayed out of work.
That doesn't strike me as being unfair accountability for an illegal strike.
Many non MTA, contract workers who couldn't get to their work because of the strike lost their wages too, and it hits them even harder because many of them don't have health benefits. Those are the people who get my sympathy, because they get nothing at the end of the day except lost wages.

bellastar, I'm not in NYC but from everything I've read, it sounds like the wverwhelming majority of the workers didn't want to strike. Is this the case?

bellastar, you are right, others suffered much more because of this strike. I also lost some wages because I'm per diem and couldn't work full days during the strike due to lousy LIRR service to where I live. But I willingly gave up a job with the union and traded in a load of very good benefits for none in order to keep my sanity. I knew this going in and I don't mind losing pay, but I want it to be for MY reasons, not because of a strike. So I guess I shouldn't feel too sorry for them. The strikers actually lost 2 days pay for every day of the strike but they also knew this when they decided to walk. If the majority was really against the strike, they shouldn't have done it. They seem to have forgotten a very valuable lesson that unions have taught us--there is power in numbers.