Rachele, at least your friend has a couch... I read on CNN website - in some hospitals employees just stay there overnight not to miss their next shift - they can't leave sick people without medical care.

Not to mention the thousands of people that need medical care, such as chemotherapy or dialysis, that are unable to make it to their medical providers.

I'm with you, Aanold. If it's illegal to strike, then fire them. Most of America, myself included, works year after year, and, blimy, without a contract!

"QC, from someone who REALLY knows what goes on inside GM plants, was a vendor, lives with a GM retiree engineer and millwright (retired at 51) and saw daily what the real story was at 3 plants in the Midwest (one the biggest train factory in the world for many years)- your argument is logical and seems correct- BUT it isn't."

Yes, my logical argument is completely wrong.

"The Unions in many venues, especially the USA automotive industry, have silently and over time greatly helped kill their goose who laid golden eggs."

Manufacturing lousy cars no one wanted to buy had nothing to do with it. BTW- Japanese Auto Insustry- completely unionized.

"This NYC transit union goes the same route as at least 40 I have seen and studied in the Midwest. Way, way too far in protecting jobs and seeking "security" for all jobs, be they skilled, unskilled or anywhere in between."

Yes, it is wrong for a Union to ask for job security. It should be mainly focused on whether there is a Coke or Pepsi machine in the break lounge.

"We have LOTS of people in academia, retail, wholesale, service who work outside, inside, all night long (24 hour libraries/medical/nursing etc. in my case) and who study far beyond Masters Degrees who don't make $60,000 a year and in the higher housing areas of the USA as well."

So, beacuse they are paid poorly, everyone else should be, too?

"Social workers who take their lives in their hands every day just trampsing where they roam make 1/2 of that, QC."

Maybe they should get better jobs or organize. Sorry, that doesn't apply to 'educated' people, right? Only bus driving morons.

"And the Unions are highly, highly corrupt. Not a one that I've studied wasn't."

I'm sorry to hear that the Screen Actors Guild is so corrupt. Good thing no business are ever corrupt, only unions.

"Sounds good like Norma Rae's travail, and they were necessary. But now they are and have been havens for plunderers and deep pockets slackers."

Boy, those bus drivers are running a killer scam where they work 60 hour weeks in heavy traffic for under 70 grand a year. Criminal masterminds, they are. And those guys who work in dark tunnels near moving trains and electrical wires? All fake. No ones does work on the Subways. The trains move 3 million people a day by themselves.

"Your 30,000 GM figure- do you know how many of those are receiving benefits galore and are not "bumped" to another arena two states over where they can stand around all day making jokes? Possibily at least a third to a half. Some of the others may actually have to work."

Yes, much better they get fired at Christmastime rather than get shifted to some kind of transitional work. You are a real humanitarian.

"Not to say that management is pearly white with grace. Not at all. But you would be appalled at the things I have seen over not just one decade but increasingly over many decades."

Your vague, unreferenced anecdotes are breaking my heart.

"I'm too ashamed as a work ethic person who has lived tough physical jobs, as well as seeing all my close ancestors work tougher ones, to admit it. Believe me, I wish it weren't so."

I think I need a microscope to see the tiny violin playing right now.


"I hope they make a clean sweep of the union heads and pull a Reagan."

Good idea, I definitely want to ride on trains repaired by brand new inexperienced mechanics.

Ronald Reagan- former union President.

QC, maybe you should go on strike with your imbecilic hypothetical answers.

No, not all experienced mechanics are forced to join a union. There are plenty of them out there able and willing to work. However, your facist society would force them to do so.

I am assuming you are in favor of unions striking every holiday season to force their benefit and disrupt the economy and general population.

I could refute every one of your views with facts. But I won't, because you will never be convinced. You know what side YOUR bread is buttered on.

And yes, the GM cars and American made cars in general ARE often inferior to the Japanese, who actually WORK their 10 plus hours a day. And have a true quality control belief system besides with great pride in their own individual workmanship- way beyond their own individual perks. They actually still work for a product.

"QC, maybe you should go on strike with your imbecilic hypothetical answers."

I have no idea what this means.

"No, not all experienced mechanics are forced to join a union."

Certainly not. But if they would make more with a Union, isn't it logical for them to join? Why are skilled laborers expected to voluntarily accept lower pay and worse working conditions when none of the rest of us would want that?

"There are plenty of them out there able and willing to work."

They are free to do so, but many of them prefer the benefits of Unionization.

I accept that businesses seek to maximize profits by minimizing labor costs- that is rational. There's nothing wrong with that.

But boy do people go into hysterics if you suggest that labor should seek to maximize income and that doing so collectively may yield better results for them. Only businesses are rational economic actors, people with jobs are supposed to be happy with pay cuts.

"However, your facist society would force them to do so."

I don't understand how wanting more pay and better benefits makes you a fascist.

"I am assuming you are in favor of unions striking every holiday season to force their benefit and disrupt the economy and general population."

Who's the dumbass in management who set the contract to expire at Christmas?

QC, unions are usually always facing paycuts because they are so bloated.

Who in the private sector faces a paycut?

You are fired and you go out and get another job. It's happened to me, it's happened to everyone I know.

If the MTA employees aren't happy, FIND ANOTHER JOB!

AMEN!!!!

No, that won't happen. They won't go get another job. EVER.

Because it's much easier to namecall their own management, place blame on the same regardless of where the fault does lie in the end product, and hold others' in society hostage to the negative results of their own power plays agenda. That's super duper humanitarian.

After reading so much about this strike, I am just blown away.

The bottom line is that the MTA asked for new hires to pay 6% toward the pension that is $1 billion dollars in the red and current employees continue to contribute 2%.

This is what they went on strike over.

The strengthening of their own retirement.

geezus.

I just heard on the radio that the strike is over. The news report stated that the MTA workers will go back to work without a contract.

I'm happy for all the NYers and tri-state area people inconvenienced by this mess!

I would say it is over for the time being. The transit workers have agreed to return to work, while negotiations resume. It still may take 12 - 18 hours to get the system up and running again.

I just hope they have a long walk to work. ((b))

"Who in the private sector faces a paycut?"

People in the private sector take paycuts all the time. 100% paycuts. They are called layoffs.

thanks everybody, as I said, glad all my questions were for naught and I hope things get up and running for all you New Yorkers ASAP

Happy Holidays,

Mary in D.C.

One Wanderer we are a liberal town many of us support the strikers. I am walking about 6 miles a day, you have to think outside of your own experience when you live in a community.

Thank you QC for presenting the other side of the picture.

Yes, I think they should fire all the strikers. Think what great reading it will be when the new workers start killing passengers when then ram into a car ahead. Think of how pleasent it will be when a car overshoots the stopping point, rendering half the cars inaccessable to the platform. And don't complain when that bus driver turns the corner too sharp and scrapes your parked car.

I am not union. But I do contract for computer services for a number of trade unions. The public thinks that unions defend anything their members do. That is so off-base. I frequently see members admonished who have come to the union hall with some complaint about the employer and the union completely backs up the employers position.

There seems to be a lot of cries here that &quot;since <b>I</b> don't get such-and-such a benefit at my job, then why should <b>they</b>?&quot; Simply. Because they bargained for it and got it. If you feel you can negotiate better with your employer than collective bargaining, go for it. But I recall an old Aesops fable from childhood where the old man demonstrates that while it can be almost effortless to break a twig into pieces it becomes almost impossible to destroy the bundle.

There is nothing wrong with a company trying to maximize profits. Nor is employees' attempt to maximize &quot;profits&quot; any less wrong. I say good for anyone who can better their position in life.

I say good for anyone that can better their position in life by working hard - no interference from the gov't or a union. Unions don't better people's position in life - the free market does - that is what America is all about. Artificially elevating one's station in life over others is incredibly stupid but that is what the liberal politicians and their ignorant constituants want. When I was in a union, the older folks actually discouraged the younger ones from putting in extra effort to get ahead saying that they would make the older ones look bad - what kind of system is that? And it just perpetuates itself so it just gets worse and worse. I feel sorry for New Yorkers as they will probably end up with a raw deal. There's a reason the plant I worked at in Staten Island is no longer there - it's called uncompetitive labor costs due to a union.

I am glad that the strike is over so NYers can go on with life as usual.

Unions were once important and necessary.
There once were no health safety regulations in the workplace, and the Jungle by Upton Sinclair, and unions, changed this.

However, now unions are putting there own employees out of business. They do not operate in the real marketplace (they don't have to pay ANY of their salary towards health benefits), and end up providing sub-par services.