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NYC experts - settle an arguement for me
This is really a silly arguement and I know I am right, but someone I know is convinced I am wrong. How could that BE? :))
What part of Manhattan is considered "uptown" and what part is considered "downtown"? Thanks. |
Well - first of all if you think you are going to get a group of New York "experts" to agree on anything - you're being tremendously optimistic.
The easy answer is the donwtown is further south than uptown. The problem may be that in many cities "downtown" is used to signify the center of town. This is not true in New York. Downtown is the southern end of Manhattan Island. Included in that and reaching north of that (depending on your point of view are the South Ferry, the financial district, Chinatown, the Village, SoHo, Nolita etc). Going further north is midtown Manhattan (34 to 59th st - or perhaps 23rd to 59th st - again depending on your POV). Further uptown - traditional "uptown" as in "Uptown Girl" are the upper east and west side - either side of Cenral Park - from 59th to 110th st. North of that is upper Manhattan - again consisting of a whole range of neighborhoods (some traditional and some made up by real estate agents trying to boost prices). |
nytraveler is right from the absolute perspective, but "uptown" and "downtown" are also relative terms to one's current location. That is, "uptown" is anywhere north of a particular location and "downtown" is anywhere south. Hence the designation on the subway trains and stations of "uptown" and "downtown."
What does your friend think? |
Marilyn has a good point. I remember asking something about a subway when I was at something like 70th Street and was asked "are you going updown or downtown?" I replied, "huh? I thought I was already uptown", and was politely (well half-politely) told that uptown and downtown are simply directions as well as places.
So you could be at South Street Seaport and go "uptown" to Soho, but you'd still be downtown. |
Thye question by the OP was geographical, not directional.
Hence, nytraveler provided what would be the most agreeable (at least to us New Yorkers) response. |
Pretty much agree with everything that's been said so far (is that amazing ;;) ). I guess since midtown is generally considered 34-59 st. anything above midtown is "uptown" and anything below is "downtown."
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Uptown is north of 59th Street. No debate. Some might say that Uptown stops at 110th street -- where or if it stops is subject to discussion.
Downtown? It varies. Some say south of 14th Street, some say south of Houston. I find that, among my crowd of young professionals, downtown is relative to the context. If work is the topic (day), downtown ususually refers to the financial area of lower Manhattan. If the topic is social (night), downtown is south of 14th Street. |
Which way is up island and which is down island....living on Long Island, I never know what that means either!
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Wow, Annabel! Not sure about what you just posted, but, I sure would like to have that same poison or whatever it is you're currenly chugging on.
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Reply to <font color="blue">Annabel</font>,
My guess would be upisland would be N, downisland would be S, though I recall someone told me that a landfill was the highest elevation on the island :? |
Billy_Boy, I'm glad you're a better mind reader than the rest of us. Since the original question was about settling an argument or disagreement, it is quite possible that the source of the conflict came from a statement like "I'm going uptown to Soho". Some of us were merely pointing out that there is nothing incorrect in that. Like you and others, we were trying to help clarify the possibilities of confusion. That is a logical one.
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I've never heard of upisland or downisland - are you asking about Manhattan? That termnology is just weird.
Or are you asking about LI - in which case it also doesn;t apply - since LI runs west to east - not south to north. |
My father, who lived on 54th Street and 7th Avenue, used to say that the suburbs began above 59th Street and below 34th Street.
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Never heard the expression up island or down island (which doesn't mean it doesn't exist) but I have heard of Lawnguylanders referring to the North Shore or the South Shore, which is pretty much self-explanatory.
Also, if you are in the Bronx or Westchester, you'll hear people saying they're going downtown, which pretty much means they're going somewhere in Manhattan. |
I believe UPIsland is used on Marthas Vineyard?
I wish I could hear this debate, there is nothing I enjoy more ( well, ok, there are things I enjoy more) than listening to a group of NYers giving advice :D I miss NYC :) |
Uptown: 59th-110th
Downtown: 14th and below Midtown: 23rd-58th Of couse that does leave the question of what is 14th to 23rd, but again, ask any of New Yorker, and we'll all give slightly different answers! |
Up island/down island is a new england boating term. People out East (Hamptons, Montauk) use this term, but do not know if it refers to heading east or west.
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<i>up island</i> is West
<i> down island </i> is East |
Scarlett is correct. Even Amtrak's Boston-Portland train is called "Downeaster", even if it's going NE.
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Ah, but isn't "down east" a Maine term?
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What is "I'm going uptown to Soho", Patrick? What are you talking about?
Even in a diverse culture like NYC, NOBODY here would refer to Soho as uptown as you just did simply because it is incorrect. A directional statement such as "I'm taking the UPTOWN and I'll get off at Spring St." is correct. |
I've never heard anyone say "I'm taking the uptown." More likely would be "I'm taking the train uptown."
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If you've never heard the phrase 'I'm taking the uptown..." or even when you ask for directions and were told to "Take the uptown to ..." then you obviously haven't taken the trains or buses in Noo Yawk.
FWIW, are you from around here to make such claims? |
Billy boy, you didn't understand me at all. I DID not use UPTOWN to describe Soho as an area. You are simply wrong if you think no one would come out of a building anywhere in Manhattan to get a taxi and have someone say, "are you going uptown or downtown" and the person would say "uptown" and then get off ten or twelve blocks north -- even if he only went to Soho. I was using it as direction, and people in New York do that sometimes -- in fact often.
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Thank you Scarlett:)
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Patrick,
Are you just not paying attention to what you write? You wrote "I'm going uptown to Soho". There's no ifs and/or buts here, it is clear that you referred to Soho as an "uptown" area. You didn't use the word "uptown" in a directional sense as you are now claiming to be. Are you also having difficulties comprehending what I write? If you read my other posts, the words "uptown" and "downtown" can be used for directional purposes (i.e. when taking trains and buses). You even used a bad example as we don't even like to use it for directional purposes with cabs, especially if we're taking one from downtown and we're actually just going to, say, 53rd Street. We'll just tell the cab driver "Mr. cab driver, 53rd and 3rd, please.... and step on it!". |
J_Correa
Are we never to know what the argument was? |
billy boy, FWIW, I do not live in NY now. I did live there at one time for 4 years, and have been coming to NY on business and pleasure 2-3 times per year for the past 25 years. I have close family in NY as well as about a dozen good friends.
People I know are more inclined to say "going uptown" than "taking the uptown" (using uptown in that case not as a geographic area, not as a direction, but as a shorthand for the uptown train). But honestly, I don't think we are disagreeing about the meaning or location of uptown and downtown. Just a little semantics. |
In a geographical sense, downtown is the financial district.
In a fashion sense, downtown is SoHo/East Village. Downtown intellectual is Prada. Uptown is Daniel, the Upper East Side, any expense account Midtown Restaurant, or Bergdorfs. Directionally, downtown is toward Brooklyn and Uptown is toward the Bronx. |
:? <b><font color="pink">Floyd:</font></b>
((8))Up Up Up Up Up... and Down Down Down Down Down... But in the end, its only Round and Round...((8)) #o |
The Bronx is up and the Battery's down,
the people ride in a hole in the ground. |
New York, New York
It's a wonderful town!! |
Everybody sing!
"...Dooowwwwnnntowwnnnn....." |
((8))Uptowwwwwwwwwn, Girl((8))
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Billy Boy, who isn't thinking here? Have you ever heard the expression "I'm heading north to ___" You could use that term in southern Florida and stay in the same town. You could walk out a building and go north one block. North in that case doesn't refer to a geographic area, it refers to a direction of travel. Being at the southern tip of Manhattan and saying "I'm going uptown" or "I'm heading uptown to _____" is no different than saying "I'm going north" or "I'm heading north to _____" That is not the same as saying "I'm going TO uptown." Do you get it yet???
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By the way, YOU may not like to use the terms with cabs, but I have the personal experience of flagging down a taxi on a midtown cross street, and before letting me in the taxi, the driver asking me "are you going uptown or downtown?" So you may not like the term as direction, but cab drivers certainly do!
By the way, what he asked me was only referring to direction -- he was NOT asking me if I was going TO uptown or going TO downtown? Do you see the difference yet? |
Also, Billy Boy, I guess by your reasoning, if I got on a subway at the bottom of Manhattan and took a train going "uptown", they won't let me off until I get north of 59th? I didn't know that. I thought I could get on an uptown train and get off at the next stop if I wanted to, even if I were still downtown.
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Downtown historically has always been south of 14th street. I can't imagine communicating with anyone who would say they were going uptown to SoHo......this from someone who lived in Manhattan for 25 yrs......most of which was spent Downtown (SoHo & Greenwich Village).
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nn, as someone who stays downtown frequently, in the Financial District to be specific, I have said many times "I am heading Uptown", in reference to the Village, Chelsea, and the LES.
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While I believe this post was answered by it's first responder, I offer that when a person says they work downtown you can assume they mean the Wall St. area.
When a person says they live uptown, they mean the Upper East or West Sides of Manhattan. "The Trips" has become a street term referring to the triple-digit streets of far-north Manhattan. I live downtown in SoHo and rarely travel to midtown which, in my opinion, is just above Chelsea on the west side and Gramercy on the east. |
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