New York Grafitti
 

Travelling to N.Y. for 10 days in April with 16 year old son who is totally consumed with "street art"..Grafitti..etc. Any ideas for things that he can see of a semi educational inspirational nature?

In NYC grafitti is also called tags which identify the "artist." The best places to see grafitti are early in the morning on the gates that cover retail stores in places like the Lower East Side. It is generally not appreciated and rarely considered art.

There's an area in Long Island City (in Queens) called 5Pointz that has lots of graffiti. If you do a google search for 5pointz graffiti you'll find lots of photos taken there on flickr and other photo sharing websites. Here are 2

http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/b...intz/index.htm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/liqcity...7603507453044/

I think the Hunter's Point stop on the #7 train is the closest way to get there.

There's a hip hop tour that also stops there as graffiti is considered part of that culture.
http://travelblog.viator.com/only-in...-hip-hop-tour/

Is the grafitti in LIC by the projects near the Bridge? If so they are considered dangerous and the bus from Riker's lets off near there as well.

What is your understanding McLaurie? Have you been there?

Have not been there but a female friend and her husband (from the UK) have been and have taken photos there. I'll find out what the area was like. But I'd assume doing the hip hop tour which goes there wouldn't be a bad idea.

There is a difference between tagging and graffiti art - just to clear up any confusion. Anybody with a can of spray paint can write their names on a wall. Graffiti art consists of murals and very stylized and complicated writing - that takes a lot of talent and creativity. I think graffiti art is what glasgowgirl is after, not tags.

Previously written:
In NYC grafitti is also called tags which identify the "artist.

Identify being the operative word.

Don't know if this is a convenient side trip for you, Glasgowgirl, but the city of Philadelphia is known for the murals that are painted on the sides of buildings. There is a commission in charge of it, but it started as a grassroots effort, and many of them are very beautiful and interesting. I believe it is possible to take a tour of them, as they are somewhat scattered, and many of them are in places it might not be really advisable for an out-of-town visitor to wander around alone.

Here's what my friend wrote in response to my question about safety at 5 Pointz.

<i>I wouldn't want to go to 5pointz at night and I probably wouldn't go by myself (although having been twice now I may do) but I didn't feel unsafe. Last time we went, there were some guys hanging round the corner of the building drinking, but they never bothered us at all. This was earlier than we went the first time. The first time we went about 11.00 (after brunch at the Court House Sq Diner). Got the 7 train to Court House Sq, you actually pass 5pointz on the subway. It's across the road from the Diner and you walk round both sides of it to see it all. It's also near PS1.

It's a very quiet area but everyone just seems to be getting on with their work. Taxi's park up along side the Warehouse, there's a couple of garages down the same road and a bus parking lot.

If anyones in to grafitti and/or photography then I'd recommend going there.</i>

Graffiti is not &quot;art&quot; and its creators are criminals.

Please don't encourage such vandalism.


(If you'd like to see some of NYC's legitimate outdoor murals, they are around but I'm not aware of any online directories or resources.)

Gekko,
Maybe you could tell us what art is then? How about advertising on buses and billboards we are all forced to look at...now those companys are criminals.

Hey Glasgowgirl..
Check this website out..

www.zerve.com/hiphoplook/graffiti

Sorry artman, but if you spray paint my house/fence/condo bldg/car/business/etc. you are a criminal. That would even apply to people who advertise by plastering ads on public busses without paying the transit company. &quot;Criminal&quot; is simnple - the word applies to people who commit crimes. I'll even give litterers a pass - at least loose trash can be picked up (at taxpayers expense...)

The whole point of 5 Pointz is that the owner of the building allows and encourages graffiti artists to paint it. The link from TahitiTams is the hip hop tour I also linked.

Here's another article that mentions a few places in Manhattan.
http://www.littleviews.com/home/newyork/graffiti.cfm

Grafitti is against the law, period.

&quot;Declaration of legislative findings and intent. The Council hereby declares that graffiti is a public nuisance that degrades the quality of life in neighborhoods and communities across the City. Graffiti creates an atmosphere of neglect, inviting criminal activity and contributing to a feeling of disorderliness and fear.

The Council finds that 18-, 19-, and 20-year olds are disproportionately responsible for graffiti crime.&quot;

http://webdocs.nyccouncil.info/textf...TOKEN=79513918

If anyone wants outdoor advertising to be illegal, he/she should run for office with that genius idea as a platform.

Forty years ago Lady Bird Johnson was fighting roadside and other public advertising as eyesores.

Go to www.muralarts.org to take a look at tours and what has become a Philadelphia Institution. And it started as an anti-graffiti measure.

&quot;16 year old son who is totally consumed with &quot;street art&quot;..Grafitti..etc.&quot;

Sounds like a vandal to me.

There's an episode of This American Life featuring a story about a NYC police officer and his cat-and-mouse game with a notorious graffiti artist. The episode is entitled &quot;Cat and Mouse&quot;. It's worth seeking out.

Author: nohomers
Date: 01/23/2008, 04:49 pm
&quot;16 year old son who is totally consumed with &quot;street art&quot;..Grafitti..etc.&quot;

Sounds like a vandal to me.

This is extremely rude. Sixteen year olds are often enamored with music, art, and activities that go against the grain of the establishment. That does not mean they are criminals.

I have had over two dozen photographic exhibits and have a Masters in writing and think artists should tell society where to go more often. I personally do not like graffiti as an art form but there are many folk arts that express a culture otherwise oppressed. But I would always choose graffiti over the Thomas Kincaides of the world any time. It is a more honest form of creativity.

There are psychologists who believe that entrepreneurs are adult juvenile delinquents.

So before you condemn anyone, let alone a stranger, think of his age, the circumstances, and what is saying.

This is clearly a Visigoth calling another a Vandal.

&quot;This is extremely rude. Sixteen year olds are often enamored with music, art, and activities that go against the grain of the establishment. That does not mean they are criminals.&quot;

Unfortunately my neighborhood seems to have a number of young men who are enamored with &quot;street art&quot; and view every wall, sign, car and truck as their canvas. You may view them as artists but to me they are criminals and should not be encouraged.

This is why I thought our murals might interest Glasgowgirl's son. It is street art, it's perfectly legal and fairly highly regarded, and is a positive force in the community.

Adults watch the Sopranos, Goffather, etc., etc. There is a fascination with the illegal in all ages, economic, and social strata.

Audchamp - I figured you knew the difference between graffiti art and tags, just wanted to make sure others did. There was a bit of ambiguity in your sentence - just looking to clear that up :)

And on the general issue of criminality - yes, graffiti for the most part is a criminal act. There are property owners that give permission or commission graffiti art, but for the most part, it is done without the property owner's permission. That said, the ciminality doesn't negate the creativity and skill required.

Thank you all! Appreciate your comments and I in no way condone the &quot;vandalism&quot; aspect which we have all suffered from. He has moved on from &quot;tagging&quot; and fortunately in Scotland there are legal areas set aside that allow the budding &quot;Banksy&quot; to express him/herself. As I said....I would like him to be inspired......not arrested.

Thanks McLaurie. Exactly what I was looking for.

Gekko and Bardo,
There are lots of things is this world that are illegal. I think its pretty well documented that the large banks that you and I use everyday have been involved with some pretty illegal Enron type accounting practices. My point is that we live in a world that is not always fair. Do I like seeing tags everywhere...well no not really. I do like interesting graffitti art..well yes I do,and more importantly I try to understand from whence this ART FORM comes from. It tends to come from a segment of society that doesn't always get the breaks that you and I have had. It tends to come from a segment of society that lives a completely different lifestyle than you or I have. It tends to come from a segment of society that is at least attempting to have a voice, a identity in a world that doesn't always recognize them. Its good to remember that Jazz at one time in parts of this country was illegal.

I cannot excuse anyone spray painting my property without my express permission regardless of whehter society gave them a break or not. There are other ways to have a voice. Some of history's greatest artists were poor beyond imagination - if you can afford to buy or steal cans of spray paint, then you can do likeways with parer/pencil/paintbrushes.

If I had a 16-year old who was &quot;totally consumed with street art&quot; I think I'd enroll him in an art appreciation or art history class QUICKLY.

Street art is ugly and severely devalues and marginalizes urban neighborhoods. It just isn't a good thing and it's pretty hard to turn it into a good thing.

Take a great, one-on-one tour of the architecture of NYC or the Met instead.

As so often with teens, they just need a little re-channeling and little broadening of their horizons, and where better to get that than from a parent?

Dont agree. We should celebrate diversity. I think that like a lot of others on this site you are confusing vandalism with creativity. Have to say that if I had the type of 16 year old, who allowed himself to be enrolled into an Art Appreciation or Art History class because I thought it was a good thing.....I would worry about the next generation. As a matter of fact he is doing both to a very high standard at school. You obviously have a very low opinion of the youth of today.....maybe you should speak to some of them.

Well if your hell bent to look at them as criminals I guess it would be a good idea to ask what have we done in this society to cause this type of issue to be a concern. Sounds like our educational system stinks.

Not ALL street art is ugly. Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's not &quot;art&quot;. Yes, MUCH of it is ugly and poorly done, but the good stuff is skillful and beautiful.

Several graffiti artists have had their work appear in the very museum -- and others, including the Whitney, the Brooklyn Museum, etc -- wliwl tells Glasgowgirl to take her kid to.

Illegal? Yes. Always ugly? No, no way.

Good grief .. I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry at the sheery lunacy/stupidity.

I'll choose to laugh.

I hear yesterday about a gallery that was having a show of New York graffiti - but the phone rang and I didn't get the details.

To find it you might check out

New York Magazine web site - which you can search for special events by topic and date

NY1.com - web site of the local 24 hour news channel - and I think may have mentioned the show

Gekko,
Beauty is in the mind of the beholder as long as you agree that not all minds are created equal.

&quot;We should celebrate diversity.&quot;

Tell that to the people who are stuck living in blighted, &quot;graffiti&quot; drenched neighborhoods.

I wonder how the Whitney, the Brooklyn Museum, etc. would feel/react if those same artists secretly painted those same works on their buildings?

Bardo, no need to wonder -- they'd be pretty pissed.

I won't argue the illegality of graffiti. Just saying that much of it is really impressive, and apparently many museum curators think so too.

glasgowgirl -- I wonder if your son has been to this site...

http://www.zephyrgraffiti.com/

Not all of the work shown here is nice, but a lot of it is pretty great. Zephyr was one of the NYC originators.

Equating an interest in grafitti and criminality is simply unforgiving and hypocritical. I am sure those who are complaining never cheated on their taxes, cheated on their boss, cheated on their wife, broke traffic laws, stole something as a child, lied to family members, etc.

What makes me laugh is the insinuation of hip hop into the suburban culture. Whites move to the burbs to escape the city and then their children where their pants to show their underwear, listen to hiphop and pierce their noses and other places.

It is their worst nightmare. And now you have some kid from Glasgow who is a good student from a good school with an understanding Mom, twisting knickers. Go kid.