Conversing with your dad about going to Pearl Harbor is one thing. It is a private conversation.

But, on a public travel forum like this, a statement such as, "Because I am not interested in military history Pearl Harbor is not a must do in my mind" is showing a lack of respect to any veterans that may read it.


No one needs to go to the memorial. No one needs to recommend it.

But, if you are not going to recommend it, then one ought to say nothing instead of saying something that is disrespectful to veterans.

If soldiers are coming home from Iraq, I have a choice of going to see them or not going to see them. But I sure would not make a public comment for someone not to go see them when they return.

I sure wouldn't make a public statement not to go to a Memorial Day Parade.

"Because I am not interested in military history, going to a Memorial Day parade isn't a must." "It's not romantic."

"Because I am not interested in military history, going to see and cheer soldiers returning from Iraq isn't a must."

Doing those things may not be a must to you or even to me. But, keep the negative or indifferent comments about the military to yourself or in a private conversation.

I don't want to read negative statements about the military on a travel forum.

Here today - What does your dad not wanting to see the memorial in a private decision have to do someone putting negative or indifferent comments on the Arizona Memorial on a travel forum that others including veterans read? What does any private conversation that you had with your dad have to do with negative or indifferent statements about the military on this public travel forum?

No one has ever said that your dad or anyone who replied on this thread is not a "good American". Because your dad did not choose to see the Memorial it doesn't make him "ungrateful".

I do not think it is asking too much to keep negative or indifferent comments about the military or military memorials off a travel forum.

If the military or military monuments are not important to you, so be it. They are not important to many. But, negative or indifferent comments about the military are not appreciated by many on a travel forum.

WTF, Dusty-dude. You are way too tense, fella, and way too judgemental.

The statement "Because I am not interested in military history Pearl Harbor is not a must do in my mind" does not insult or injure anyone in anyway. It is merely a statement. Not everyone is interested in military history. This is merely Suze's personal opinion. She never told anyone else what to see to not to see.

And what does my conversation with my dad have to do with this? I was simply illustrating that not wanting to visit Pearl Harbor is not necessarly a "dagger in the heart" of any veteran. Even some veterans, such as my dad, are not interested in it. Nor would Suze's comment in any way offend him.

It is not OK for you to twist people's intent and then make sweeping generalizations to make your point. It is OK for you to say that you feel stongly about the significance of the memorial. But do be aware that not everyone has has the same experiences in their life and therefore, not everyone will feel the same as you do.

Suze said that since she has no interest in military history, visiting the Arizona is not a must do in HER MIND. I certainly read no "negative or indifferent comments about the military or military memorials" in any of the posts here. You seem the be the only one pushing your agenda.

If you really want to honor those who gave their life serving our country, recognize the freedoms for which they fought. Freedom of speech, last time I checked, has not yet been stricken from the Bill of Rights, although to listen to some people today you'd think it has.

You brought up the conversation you had with your dad as if it belonged in this thread.

All I did was make a response about it. Your conversation with your dad or his interest in visiting the memorial has absolutely nothing to do with what suze said or how what suze said can be interpreted by some veterans.

Once again, it is not too much to ask to keep the negative or indifferent comments about the military out of a travel forum

Most every thread on Fodors is a series of thoughts, people making suggestions, other people agreeing or disagreeing with them, adding more ideas to the mix, sharing possibilities.

My sincere thanks to the kind posters who understood no harm or disrespect was stated or implied in my comments and to those who said so on my behalf.

Dusty, I agree with you on this one. To add to the Pearl Harbor discussion. The first time we visited we took our children from the ages of 8 to 20. One doesn't have to be interested in history to appreciate the memorial. If anyone is not familiar with that period of history, Pearl Harbor presents a tremendous opportunity. We were fortunate to be able to hear a first person, survivor account of a 17 year old sailor's near brush with death. Years later my sons still remember that.
The sailor went on to become a pastor on Maui and met with Mitsuo Fuchida who lead the attack on Pearl Harbor, shouting "tora, tora, tora". Fuchida went on to become a pastor himself and asked for forgiveness for what he had done. Very moving. I don't know how many WWII survivors exist today that are there to tell the story. The Bowfin and the Missouri is also well worth the trip. On Maui, I would suggest taking a plane ride over to Molokai, and then taking the mule ride to Kaulapapa. This is another historical and memorable journey that is well worth the time.

Dudes.........take a chill pill...all of ya...((r))

Karina, enjoy your honeymoon (asking what a couple in their mid-20s can do in Hawaii on their honeymoon is begging the obvious answer). ON Maui, drive up Haleakala in the late afternoon--it is deserted, and as you wait for the sunset and following stars (bring blankets and thermos), you will experience something you will never forget. IF you get your fill of snorkeling (must) and swimming, take a day and do the road to Hana--it is lovely, and swimming in Oheo gulch ("7 sacred pools") is great fun and the scenery is awesome. Lahaina is an interesting (frankly mid-19th century colonial) town, but filled with people eating and shopping at so-so places. (Take a couple of hours, if you are bored.)AND, every evening at sunset, take your sweetie and a glass of vino, or bubbly, to the beach and watch the sun set--enjoy the quiet (or the noise and sillouettes of kids still playing in the surf) and wind down from the day. DON'T frantically run around scheduling tours, heli rides, boat trips, expensive meals--enjoy the relaxed pace where you can find it, walk 1/2 mile to the petroglyphs (south of Lahaina), which hardly anyone does, enjoy Iao and visit the historical town of Wailuku. Don't overschedule, or try too hard--you'll have more fun if you don't overplan.
Don't be pressured into waiting in line for a sunken ship if it doesn't interest you--as a child of a vet, I know that we all pay our respects in different ways.

here_today_gone2Maui - very well said. The Bill of Rights is still alive and well...and it should be a reminder to a number of people on these boards.

And incidentally, I am a War Orphan because of WWII ("father died as a result of a service connected disability"), my uncle served on the USS Phoenix in Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941, and I'm engaged to a Vietnam Vet. Just in case anyone questions my thoughts about the military...

Visiting Pearl Harbor is a personal choice. Not an obligation. And yes, I've been a number of times.
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Karina
Congratulations! You will love your location on the beach in Waikiki. Waikiki has plenty to see and do. Did you plan on renting a car? If so going to the north shore is an excellent idea. Very beautiful drive. If you don't venture out of Waikiki you will not see just how beautiful this island is. 3 days on Oahu is a short amount of time for a couple on their honeymoon. So a car might make it easier for you to fit in all the things that appeal to you. I say play all day :-) and take long romantic walks at night. The Royal Hawaiian has very romantic grounds with all the tiki torches at night. Not far from your hotel on Oahu.
On Oahu:
Climb Diamond Head. (Go in the morning.) Plenty of time after to go to the north shore and lay on a beach.

Surfing lessons are an option for you right at Waikiki Beach.

Snorkeling at Hanauma Bay is fun. Go in the morning and you will have time to do other things in the afternoon. Hanauma Bay gets very crowded and it is closed one day during the week.

Shopping. Waikiki is a shoppers paradise. The International Marketplace is fun and has lots of great deals. Coconut Willy's (in the marketplace) is a great place to have lunch (burgers). Good food that's not expensive and they have bands playing music during the day. (I love that place).
If you decide to visit Pearl Harbor and the Arizona Memorial you will need all of one morning and early afternoon. It's been a few years since I've been there but I recall there is some wait time involved for tickets, boat ride and a short movie prior to seeing the memorial. Security has probably increased the wait time a bit. Visiting here is a great way to pay your respects.

Do you ride motorcycles? They have 2 locations in Waikiki for harley rentals.

Hope this helps-
Have fun!
Annika

A note about the time it takes visiting Pearl Harbor: If you catch a shuttle (see http://www.viptrans.com/services/pearl.htm) from your hotel, and do the earliest one ... around 6:30 a.m., which is what we did, you will be one of the first at the Memorial, and out of there well before lunch! :-) I think we were free to go on our merry way by 10:30 or so ...

Sylvia3, Referring to The Arizona War Memorial as a "sunken ship"? What do you consider Arlington? Landscaping?

That was very well said, DawnCt. I was trying to think of how to reply to that. Thank you.

I was willing just to let the thread end. But after still seeing the comments, I have to comment again.

What is really sad is they still don't get it.

What may not be considered offensive to some is offensive to others.

Because you're engaged to a Vietnam Veteran, doesn't make you an expert on how others may take a statement. Were you in a war? Were you in any branch of service? Do you know how each and every veteran feels about the statements?

The Bill of Rights also applies to those who are offended like myself to speak up.

If I was the only one who thought the statements were offensive or indifferent, then maybe I'd think, "It's just me." But there are several others responding on this thread did find it offensive or who don't appreciate negative or indiferent comments about the military or military monuments.

There has been nothing said that anyone "has to go to the Memorial". It is a personal choice. But, why make the statements at all if they are going to offend anyone?

Only a sunken ship? You can take a copy of the "Bill of Rights" and put it where the sun doesn't shine!

How sad! Get a clue!

Dusty,

"Why make the statements at all if they are going to offend anyone?"

If that was the standard, it would be an awfully quiet world.

Good points, Dusty. My husband is also a Viet Nam vet, has recently served in Kuwait and will soon serve in Iraq. My brother recently served in Afghanistan. I guess you could say they defends the rights of even those who chose to make ignorant statements. I am grateful to those who went before us to preserve those rights. I am thankful that I had an opportunity to take my sons, who are now young men to Pearl Harbor, to see for themselves, the cost of freedom.

Yep, we should have let this thread die several nutty statements ago. Karina123 (original poster) hasn't even been back and I don't blame her!

it is not too much to ask to keep the comments ... about the military out of a travel forum

Dusty –
I (as well as many people in this discussion) do in fact "get it." I do believe that visiting Pearl Harbor is extremely important. But I do not believe that people have been disrespectful of the military or Pearl Harbor because their opinion is not the same as yours or leelane’s.

You said: "Because you're engaged to a Vietnam Veteran, doesn't make you an expert on how others may take a statement (statement being...Pearl Harbor is not a must in [suze's] mind). (…Obviously Dusty, your statements re the Vietnam Vet were meant for me…) Were you in a war? Were you in any branch of service? Do you know how each and every veteran feels about the statements?"

1. All I ever said was that the Bill of Rights is still alive and well (for all of us, you included)...and that Visiting Pearl Harbor is a personal choice. Not an obligation. I never claimed to be an expert (unlike you, who seems to be an expert on everything...)

2. No, I've never fought in a war or been in the service. My father, my three uncles and two aunts were all proud members of the Army and the Marines serving overseas in WWII, so I've heard a lot about it over the past 50+ years. And my father died when I was a toddler because of it. I know more than I ever wanted to know about wars and death, Dusty. But have I ever served in the military? Again, no.

3. And asking, "Do you know how each and every veteran feels about the statements?" is absurd. Of course I don't know, nor did I ever claim to. Nor do you know. For you to say, “It’s a dagger through the heart of any veteran to read "Because I am not interested in military history Pearl Harbor is not a must do in my mind", implies that YOU know what any veteran thinks. You don’t. You can only know what you yourself feel. And I am truly sorry that you feel hurt or betrayed or disrespected or abandoned or insulted or assaulted by the quote above…but I honestly don’t believe that it was meant in the manner in which you are interpreting it.
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Sorry suze. I'm finished.
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The U.S. Army Museum is located in Ft.DeRussy Park and admission is free. For those staying at the Hilton Hawaiian Village, this is a short walk towards Diamond Head, just past the Hale Koa Resort(House of the Warrior). Ft. DeRussy was originally established in 1915 for the purpose of protecting Hawaii. In 1950 it was disbanded and a park was established to honor all branches of the military.

hi kamahinaohoku- no problem you said that beautifully. BTW my last post was simply paraphrasing something dusty said above.

over and over on this thread several posters put words in the mouths of others and made sweeping generalization about what other people think and believe. how they know what is in the minds of others, i have no idea.

"Because I'm not interested in history, "ground zero" in New York is not important in my mind." "After all, it's just a hole in the ground now."

"Because I'm not interested in history, the monument where the Alfred Murah Building used to be, is not important to me." "After all, it's nothing but a bunch of chairs and you can't even sit on them."

I guess those statements couldn't possibly offend anyone.

Get a clue!

Dusty, No one said you aren't offended by the opinions voiced here, clearly you are.

What I don't believe is fair is when you say what other people think and feel. There is no way you can know what is in their hearts.

suze, you have given great advice on this forum.

But, I see no reason why any response by you (or anyone else) has to mention religion (the comments about PCC on an earlier thread) or anything that could be taken as negative or indifference when speaking about the military or military monuments.

I know you still feel you didn't offend anyone (and others agree with you). I feel the opposite (and others agree with me).

I also know it was never your intention for anyone to take offence to any of your comments. Like I said, you do give good advice.

Some people take blonde jokes as nothing but jokes. Others may be offended by them. Whoever tells the joke surely does not have the intent to offend anyone.

I and many others take our military and anything to do with the military very seriously and may be offended by anything that slights the military.

Dusty - please stop changing the words. NO ONE in this discussion ever said that "New York, the Alfred Murah Building and/or Pearl Harbor IS NOT IMPORTANT IN MY MIND." You are still implying (or imagining) things, and taking offense to things that were not meant in the manner you're implying.
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I do not consider it a discussion of religion to say the Mormon Church runs PCC. They do, many people don't realize it.

If you say. "PCC is too commercial." I see nothing wrong with that. But, all the luas are commercial.

If you say. "Don't go there because it is run by Mormons and some of us have a problem with that." Then it is an anti-religious statement.

Don't go to the church Bazzar. It's run by Catholics, and some of us have a problem with that.

Don't play bingo at the church because it's run by Lutherans and some of us have a problem with that.

"PCC is too commercial and it's run by Mormons and some of us have a problem with that", doesn't need to be a response in a travel forum.

And then later you said you were never at PCC.

So evidently you and others still don't get it.

Once again, If it was just me who thought you slighted the military, I'd say, it's just me and that would be the end of it. But obviously others are also offended.

I don't know if you've ever been to the Arizona Memorial, but, like PCC, I'll bet you were never there and therefore have no idea of what the memorial means to others.

If you're ever in Texas, Crawford is not important because Bush is from there and some of us have a problem with that.

If you're in italy, the Vatican isn't important. It's run by Catholics and some of us have a problem with that.

If you're ever in Pennsylvania, don't go near Lancaster. Many Amish live there and some of us have a problem with that.

dusty, get over it.

dusty, get over it. Really, it's not worth it.

Dusty, I promise I will never ever utter a single word about Pearl Harbor on this site again. But please stop. You misquote and twist words, implying these statements are mine, but they are not. Enough already.

geez. i just asked some simple questions.

Karina123,
Thanks for the thread! We will also be in the islands this year and other than all the ranting from people who should be in some type of political blog it was quite informational. There is a million things to do as we have been before. I would agree with those who said to relax and do some short trips. Talking to the locals will never lead you astray as long as their not selling condos.

I think a few of you are losing sight of the point of this forum. Karina simply wanted some honeymoon advice regarding her stay in hawaii. Everyone has different opinions and that's fine. What some like to do is maybe not what others would want to do. TO EACH THEIR OWN. Pearl harbor isn't for me either since i'm going on my honeymoon and i'd rather not be depressed for a whole day. Anyone want to scold me for saying that??? This board is to HELP others, not to judge, not to be verbally mean, and not to jump down others throats for their beliefs, thoughts, or opinions.

KARINA... i also am planning my honeymoon for october. My future husband and i will be 25 when we go and here's what i have planned so far.

In maui:
-(Tuesday)we booked the Old Lahaina Luau
-(Wed) captain steves snorkeling trip to Lanai
-(Thurs) Aloha Morning ride at the Mendes Ranch
-(Fri)road to hana
-(sat) hike to Haleakala

We might also book Warren & Annabelles, do some Lahaina shopping, get a seaside massage at the Hyatt, spend plenty of time on the beach relaxing, and go with the flow to see where the day takes us. I have plenty of restaurant recommendations and various other info, so feel free to email me if you want to talk. [email protected]

aliwnec

I hope you change your mind about going to the memorial.

Hey you already have all this info!!!!