NC/Asheville - should I still visit after recent votes??
 

I have plans to visit Asheville in a couple of weeks. However, recent events are making me reconsider. I was dismayed at the recent backwards-looking vote in NC to change its constitution and guarantee that gay citizens will be treated unequally. Frankly, I began having doubts that I wanted to spend my money in a place where people could be so mean. Yesterday I read an article about NC Pastor Charles Worley, who preached a solution worthy of Nazis -- round up gay citizens and imprison them behind electric wire until they die.

I have traveled worldwide and seen many different places and cultures, some of which are quite alien to Americans, and some of which are also intolerant. However, while I can tolerate a certain level of intolerance abroad, I realize I am more disturbed when I discover it in my own country and backyard. For my vacation plans, the timing of this NC vote was terrible. The recent outpouring of hate and bigotry is so fresh, I find I cannot help debating myself whether I should change my plans and avoid NC, at least for now.

I generally avoid anonymous political discourse, especially on discussion boards like this one, but I decided to break from my usual pattern and ask this question anyway as I debate my vacation plans.

Any thoughts?

Asheville is still a wonderful place to visit.

Asheville is beautiful and the town is quite open.

First, there are bigots everywhere. So, unless you never want to leave your house, you can't let that be the deciding factor. It's usually the "crazies" that get all the attention. There is always some crazy guy out there saying awful things in the name of religion that makes the news during hot button issues. Asheville also isn't necessarily represented by the rest of the state regarding the recent vote. I find Asheville to be quite gay friendly, if that is important to you. More importantly, Asheville is full of people who are friendly to everyone...regardless.

The area is quite lovely and I don't find Asheville or anyone I have met there to be intolerant at all. I visit there often and always enjoy it. Don't miss out. I will be there next week on business and again in August to visit with friends.

I understand your concerns exactly. I had the opportunity to visit South Africa under Apartheid and refused to go. I wasn;t contemplating visiting NC anyway - but this would defintiely cause me to add it to the list of "no go" states - along with those who seem to want to arrest people for just being tan.

Though I sympathize with your point of view and the questions you are facing, travelinglightly, I think that this topic really belongs in the Fodorite Lounge, and not in this forum.

maybe you can check out the thread posted by starrs in the Fodorite Louonge - note it's another victory for racism and bigotry in North Carolina, of all things a KKK rally.

http://pamshouseblend.firedoglake.co...ts-front-page/

Hello travelinglightly - I spent 28 years of my life at UNC Asheville (as a staff member, not a student ;-) and you should visit the campus. As others have said, Asheville is a very open city. While the county of Buncombe is conservative I find most people have a "live and let live" attitude.

As for the campus, I think everyone will find it very welcoming. The faculty and staff are very friendly. The classes are tough but the instructors are very helpful.

I was born and raised in NC and I too have very strong convictions. I think only you can decide if it would seem like you are compromising your principles by going. Asheville is a wonderful place to visit. I think it will change at some point, since we've been through stuff like this before.

I'd say go, enjoy yourself, and don't assume that everyone you deal with supports the votes you disagree with. Many great people in NC (I'm not from there and have never lived there, but have visited many times). If you limit yourself to going places that only share your views you will miss out on a lot.

I agree with Challiman.

<<If you limit yourself to going places that only share your views you will miss out on a lot.>>

Bingo!

If you are going to boycott states that ban same sex marriage, your travels around the US will be pretty limited.

<i>However, while I can tolerate a certain level of intolerance abroad, I realize I am more disturbed when I discover it in my own country and backyard.</i>

Totally get that. Lack of attachment sometimes allows me to see travel a bit anthropologically. Simply a viewer to something in the world very foreign to me. But yeah, it's hard to accept that where you're from is also so mystifying. And it's harder to find that sense of separation and distance when it's "home". For me, I have a harder time accepting and participating in the normal flow of tourism and economics when I feel the "wrongness" of it is partly my responsibility (by being a voting member of the place) and that I should be doing *something*, even if I'm not quite sure what that something is. This, for me, feels quite different than foreign travel.

So, for now, I personally wouldn't be including NC or Arizona in my list of places in my next "see America" visit and am ok with it being "my loss"

Couldn't agree more with Clifton. Lovely place, but I certainly won't spend a dime there, at least until the vote actually occurs. Once the vote happens, I may reconsider, depending upon the results.

I always wondered why neighboring states don't take advantage of the controversies in other states (assuming they too don't have these laws) and advertise they are welcoming to every citizen to come see our state.

apersuader, to what vote do you allude? Amendment One to the NC Constitution defining marriage as between one man and one woman (at a time, apparently) passed overwhelmingly two weeks ago. Disgrace is too kind a word.

apersuader.....if one disagrees with NC to the point of not traveling there, I don't think heading to VA, SC, GA & TN is the answer.

That's essentially leaving the frying pan to jump into the fire (as we say in the south).

Travelinglightly,

No, you shouldn't visit Asheville. You should only visit places where people aren't allowed to vote or express opinions that differ from yours - although that does narrow it down. Maybe just stay inside your own home so, like Cher, you won't have to breath the same air as "those" people. :))

Seriously, listen to yourself. Are you really so parochial you can only visit a place where everyone agrees with you on every issue? And your reason would be what? That "they" are intolerant.

I've visited places where people live under communist dictatorships, places where insulting certain historic (and dead) leaders is a jailable offense, and places where revealing my true football loyalties would earn me an arse-kicking.

Visiting these places has enriched our lives. One hopes that they are now better places for having hosted me and mine.

<<Maybe just stay inside your own home so, like Cher, you won't have to breath the same air as "those" people.>>

Impressive how you managed to work Cher into this discussion.

<<Amendment One to the NC Constitution defining marriage as between one man and one woman (at a time, apparently) passed overwhelmingly two weeks ago. Disgrace is too kind a word.>>

If that is the criteria, you may well want to steer clear of: Alaska, Nevada, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Oregon, Colorado, Tennessee, Arizona, Nebraska, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentuicky, Louisiana, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Utah, Kansas, Texas, Alabama, Idaho, South Carolina, South Dakota, Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan and Virginia. Almost forgot about California.

Your domestic travels should be contained to the Northeast and Iowa.

tom42: <i>Impressive how you managed to work Cher into this discussion.</i>

You say impressive. I'd say... fabulous.

Whether impressive or fabulous, I appreciate your compliments - thanks! I do try to weave a tapestry of current events into my comments.

First, I would like to thank everyone for their comments, whether thoughtful or angry. I thought a further explanation is warranted. I have traveled extensively and sometimes been shocked at difference I encounter. For example, I have traveled through Arab countries where I was flabbergasted to hear local people praise Saddam Hussein as misunderstood by Americans. I have also encountered equally shocking opinions in East Europe and parts of Asia. Yet I feel that my understanding of the world was greatly enhanced by this exposure.

This is different because the events in NC fundamentally institutionalizing bigotry are so recent and make me question whether I should be spending my money in NC at this time. Maybe after some time elapses, I would feel differently.

For those who care,

c'mon, this is a troll!

Went to grad school in nc, one of the most beautiful states. Husband and I have planned a trip to Asheville in September--after much deliberation. Have decided that it's bet to "show up." We're thinking of stamping all our money with something like, "money brought to your state from another gay family."

As long as you boycott California and the vast majority of the states in the US, I see no reason why not.

The NC outcome is stupid, but stupidity regarding this topic is quite widespread. It is not really a regional issue.

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/wedd...arriageBan.htm

Obviously, due to my own circumstances, I was disappointed in the recent NC vote. I fully support the right of the majority in that state but to say that "there is bigotry everywhere" as a justification to totally ignore a vote you disagree with is simply that: a justification.

I'm certain that majority isn't the least bit interested in those people who don't agree and naturally they are acting as if something like that vote is never going to have any economic or other consequences. And if you visit anyway they will be right.

Nobody is justifying bigotry. We are simply reminding people that it is widespread. Should NC residents be ashamed? Perhaps, but then the same is true of California voters. Should we boycott NC? Perhaps, but then you should also boycott California.

It is simply unfair to single out NC for what is, unfortunately, a national problem.

My friend absolutely loves the Arizona desert but won't go on vacation there anymore because of the politics.

I went to visit a relative in Asheville last year. It's quite beautiful. However, I'm not used to big signs about Gun Clubs and Gun Shows greeting me. Felt a bit strange to say the least.

I once had a boyfriend who came from NC and left it to be in NY. He was Catholic and said that in NC it was as bad to be Catholic as it was to be Jewish (I'm Jewish). That was 20 years ago. Don't know if it's changed.

"Any thoughts?"

My thoughts are that you're a chickensh** to hide behind another screenname; North Carolina'll be better off w/o you. The ~drama~ of insisting a state resolution is horribly worse than countries where homosexuals are crushed into the ground with large stones because it is "recent" makes me lol.

When you are all finished figuring out the states which do not support equality or civil rights, whether it be SSM, benefits to SSM partners the same as for "married" couples and those that severely restrict a woman's right to chose, or even those states that restrict voting rights or worker's rights to join a union, please post those states that would be acceptable to visit ... but I suspect the denial of equality and freedom goes hand-in-hand in the states and COUNTRIES where civil rights, equality and freedom is denied.

I don't have time to make such a list, but it would be helpful for those of us contempting "boycotting" specific locations, states, even countries.

If I am interested in seeing a country or a state I dont take in considerations what are the politics of these places or how the people voted in certains issues..

If these issues are the case from keeping the people going there then many people from different countries would also boycott the US then..

To say that bigotry exists everywhere in response to someone's asking if they should travel somewhere isn't a "justification?" Then just what is it?

Tourism dollars are vital to many places, and lack of them can hurt a region or state. South Dakota got an earful after some very repressive legislation, and it hurt them financially. Colorado saw a dip in tourist dollars when Maria Navatrolova pointed out some negative-to-her legislation; there are many examples. If you do not wish to spend your travel/leisure/vacation/tuition dollars in a place as a political statement or because you are offended by legislation, BE SURE to let it be known by letters to the editor, the state tourism boards, the politic movers and shakers, etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/26/bu...R_AP_LO_MST_FB

A very moving article from the New York Times about how one North Carolina businessman deals with it. He is quite a hero!

Oh, and by the way, Asheville is, on the whole, pretty darn liberal, and is in Buncombe County, one of the seven counties in NC that voted AGAINST Amendment One. So I guess you are morally obligated to GO to Asheville, not stay away from Asheville!

oops. Martina Navratilova.

<I>To say that bigotry exists everywhere in response to someone's asking if they should travel somewhere isn't a "justification?" Then just what is it?</I>

It is helpful information.

Presumably, the OP feels strongly on the issue. They seem to feel strongly enough to boycott travel to NC. I, for one, presume that people who feel that strongly about the issue would boycott the other states that have shown the same attitude as NC.

Heck, beachplum specifically asked for a list of states with policies similar to those in NC. I'm sure it was a simple oversight that caused her to miss the link to such a list I posted above, but clearly many people want such a list. Now, the enormity of that list is troubling, and leaves limited options for those that seek to boycott travel to intolerant states, but they clearly feel strongly.

This, of course, presumes that the boycott is driven by true concern and outrage and is not simply a case of trying to puff oneself up for simply doing what they would otherwise do. I mean, I could say I am boycotting Saudi Arabia because they don't respect human rights, but the reality is that I simply lack any interest in traveling there. I suspect those that would boycott NC, but not CA are similarly puffing themselves up.

Or perhaps the vote in regards to NC travel is something that is part of a larger set of problems one may have with that particular state. A situation which could culminate in a "just not interested" point of view.

Or you may have a destination that might have been interesting, just as the OP claims, but the vote under discussion became a final off-putting straw while CA didn't have as many strikes against it. Hard to say as a uninformed bystander just how many more strikes it would have taken.

First, I don't put US travel decisions on the same scale as foreign travel, so whatever the middle east has going on at the moment has nothing to do with it. Why would it? I would imagine mot people put domestic and international travel on a different sliding scale for a vast number of reasons.

Focusing now on the question at hand... for me, it would likely be a mix of what was putting me off vs the volume of what attracted me in the first place. And it's true that there's nothing really big I want to see in NC except maybe the coastal areas. Nice places I've heard of, but no "I've really always wanted to see..." sort of places. But in the big scheme of all the places in the world one could choose from would NC be high on the list? No, not really. For me it would be just a possible diversion if in a neighboring area. I might chose a few places to see in NC if I were in the area. But add the usual anti-gay vote onto open KKK rallies and other such impressions and picking up the trip planning books starts to feel unappealing and a bit like commiseration. Despite that most NC'ers are great people I'm sure, the higher-than-average current ookiness (rather than simple existance of) seals it for me. Not as the big gesture, but rather more like choosing the better sounding soup from the choices on has on a shelf. On the other hand, California has a large number of things that appeal. And maybe even enough to overcome the number of cons it would have it matched NC blow by blow, whereas NC doesn't have a travel bench that deep. But it still would be a lot less appealing upcoming holiday if it did.

Clifton - I have to say that you made my point better than me. You would place this vote as some sort of tiebreaker and an excuse to not travel somewhere you likely wouldn't anyway. Paint it anyway you want, but I can't think of anything so transparently self-righteous.

Much like my lack of travel to Saudi Arabia is driven by the fact I don't need to see miles of sand, your decision to "boycott" travel to NC is driven by a lack of interest. To pretend that those decisions are driven by some moral regard is dishonest.

Well, yes I did tg, but that's anecdotal. If I were traveling down the east coast - which I can totally see us doing at some point because we're bound to be on a "see America" kick someday - then normally I would probably stop off along the way in NC. I wouldn't mind seeing Kitty Hawk and Kill Devil Hills or inland at spots along the Appalachians. So if you've misinterpreted as zero interest in NC right off the bat, you're set straight now.

However, when I factor in this other stuff, then yeah, for now I'd just as soon spend the time somewhere else. Saying that it wouldn't be the end of the world to miss those places for now isn't the same thing as saying they're not worth seeing ever. After all, it doesn't take a lot of time to just go on through the state. But if you think it's not just about this one vote that makes me feel that way, there you'd be right. It can be something besides indifference or an angry boycott and events and perception can make some difference what part of the grey spectrum you fall into about a particular place.