A couple of flyers and you generalize from that to the all the people who live there? The hypocracy of people like you is amazing. You're the bigot around here.

Hi Chet: Pittsburgh is what you make of it--except for the weather. We had a sunny summer, but it usually is grey, grey, grey. But then again, so is Paris ;)

As an interacial couple, the areas in the city that would not blink an eye and would also provide you with a more "happening" scene would be Shadyside, Squirrel Hill and South Side. Condos/townhouses on Washington's Landing and the Strip District, areas right inside the city, are neat, too. These areas have the Thai, Vietnamese, Ethiopian, Slovak, etc. restaurants you'd enjoy.

We live in suburbia because of the public schools. Ours is bearable because of the number of Carnegie Mellon and University of Pittsburgh professors, plus University of Pittsburgh Medical Center personnel, who have chosen to raise the kids in the district. Creates a nice diversity in what was once all-white suburbia. I would ask your real estate agent about areas with this blend.

Real estate costs are low compared to the national average, so that offsets the tax stuff. Crime rate is low. The city is actually pretty, and for a city of such small size, is very culturally endowed. It has a very good orchestra and a strong ballet company plus good dramatic performance opportunities. The city's performance venues are outstanding, with four excellent stages in a four-block area termed the "Cultural Distict."

I agree with the poster who said that Pittsburgh is what you make of it. We moved there from the DC area and were very pleasantly surprised...a good amount of "culture" in the way of theater/music/dance (which we unfortunately didn't get to take advantage of because of a new baby), very little traffic, and a decent selection of restaurants.

You kind of have to seek out the good restaurants because you can be overwhelmed by the chains, but we managed to find a great local pizza/calzone shop and a tasty Thai restaurant once we ventured out.

I thought the weather was going to make me miserable, having grown up in Virginia, but it really wasn't as bad as I expected. It was cold, but not bitterly so. It snowed, but (in our suburb at least) the removal was prompt.

We lived west of the city, in Robinson Township, and always found our access into town was easy. The parkway into town is backed up in the mornings, but was nothing compared to traffic in DC.

I did notice when we were looking to buy that some areas seemed to be lacking in diversity. In fact, after looking for a couple days, I actually was surprised to notice a black family in one neighborhood - I just hadn't seen any in some localities. We ended up buying in a new-ish development with many young families. Our neighborhood has a couple long-time Pittsburghers, but also several families new to the area, including Indian and black families.

I had only a few complaints...local taxes are INSANE. We paid about $6000 in county, township, and school taxes on our $260K house. And we were a bit far from family, which is the reason we are relocating back to Virginia.

Now that we're leaving, I have a new complaint (that was a bonus when we moved in) - the real estate is a complete buyers market! Our house has been on the market for almost 6 months, as have many of the homes in our neighborhood, and nothing is selling. Beautiful homes, great prices - but no buyers. Very frustrating for us, but great for anyone moving into the area!

" very little traffic,"

I know about half a million people who would disagree with you. Pittsburgh taffic is among the worst in the US. With the mountains and rivers there there is usually only oone good routre to get from A to B with no good alternatives. That's bad enough, but then there are the frequent bridge and road closures, causing a detour that triples the time.

" and a decent selection of restaurants. "

Yeah, all bad.

"Pittsburgh taffic is among the worst in the US" ????

Compared to rush hour in LA, Chicago, New York and PHILLY? Come on, Metellus, this is almost as much hyperbole as the sunglasses posting.

What is accurate, Chet, is that traffic can be problematic because dependence on tunnels and bridges. The same obstacles, though, hills and rivers, have prevented an over-density of population, thereby keeping the overall amount of traffic down. In other words, just like the taxes versus overall cost of living, it's a trade-off.

We live ten miles outside the city and have to use one of the crummiest, crumbliest routes into the city. It still takes us no more than 45 minutes on a bad day and 35 minutes on a decent day DURING RUSH HOUR to pull into our parking space.

On weekends, we're into the city in around 20-25 minutes. We like to zip down there, unload the bikes near one of the marinas, and cycle around the town. The network of railroads from the city's industrial past have ended up serving the Rails-to-Trails movement.

This place is what it is--warts and all.

What a crock. Try coming into town from Monroeville or something. Or from the South Side when the Liberty bridge is closed.

I used to live near the Southside and commuted 10-15 minutes into Oakland. Then they closed a bridge. That upped it to 30 minutes. Then they closed another bridge and that upped it further to 45 min. I had to go 10 miles out of my way down river to the next bridge. That's standard Pgh communting.

That's the thing about Pgh. There is never an alternative route. If the only an only decent road is closed or slow, you just sit there because there is nowhere to go, no detour, no nothing.

Hi everyone, my husband and I are also playing with the idea of moving to Pittsburgh. I was born there, but we moved to Miami when I was about 3. My parents lived there from the late 1950s to the early 1970s. My mother has always wanted to go back, and has even gone house-hunting up there in the last few years. My husband was never thrilled with the idea even though he liked Pittsburgh when we visited a few years ago. However, all of the hurricanes and the predicted 10-20 more years of intense activity are beginning to change his mind. We're both teachers and have been looking at websites for the different school districts. What is life like in Upper St.Claire or South Fayette? Franklin Park seems nice also. We lived in Mt.Lebanon which also seems nice. I'm really looking for someone to address life from the perspective of a 30-something couple with preschoolers and toddlers. We barely go out as it is...we are way past the club scene. We thinking about safety, good schools, and culture (in terms of the arts). We're both hispanic (cuban descent) so we would like to live in a community with diversity. Also, living in Miami, I barely ever go downtown. If we were able to secure teaching jobs in a community where we lived, wouldn't we avoid the "terrible traffic?" One last point, everything is relative...traffic in Pittsburgh might seem bad, but it depends on where you live- it isn't that great over here. I'de really like someone to be as objective in their response as possible considering that we want a place with a home-town feel. We live in a suburb in Miami and teach at a nearby high school...we have kids and tend to stay within our community for the most part. We're not hitting the clubs in South Beach every weekend...trust me. I would really appreciate all of your responses. Thanks!

Diversity is a problem. And that is something you need to take into consideration no matter what.

As you can tell, I'm irritated with Metellus because I don't think he has an accurate take on the 'burgh. I like it here without being a Steelers or Penguins or Pirate fan, and we sure must be better than he in finding alternate routes into town--or we probably were better at figuring out our options before we bought our first home. Don't let his lack of imagination bother you.

On the other hand, I sure didn't feel a driving need to obtain prescription sunglasses until recently. This is not LA! Skies can be depressing beyond belief.

As I mentioned previously, any diverse couple needs to find areas where the influx is from the top-notch medical centers and top-notch university families. The districts you have mentioned--North Allegheny (that's Franklin Park), Hampton, Upper St. Clair and Mt. Lebanon--are good school districts. Diversity is not the strong point for each. You have other possibilities--talk to a relocation agent and say, "I want diverse WITH top 100 in US."

You are really right--you are in your 30's and you want to raise a family. We understand. Had we not decided to raise children, my husband and I would be living in Northern California as we speak. Instead, I felt the need to give birth and here we are. Our kids got raised with other kids from all cultures, and yet divorce is not the norm. Need I say more?

You are right, too. What does downtown traffic have to do with your wish to work in or near your school district?

Here's another downside, though. Teaching jobs are really hard to come by. We cannot tell you how many of our friends had to relocate to areas near DC, an area which is growing leaps and bounds, to get a job. At the same time, those people are having their first kids and they want to come HOME, here, where they know there is some backbone.

I have to add this--we would have relocated almost anywhere in the US when we were first married. We were both raised to leave, fly the nest, the world is your oyster, etc. It just so happened that our lives fell into place right here. We travel incessantly, mainly because the cost of living here allows that.

Hi.. I am going to repost the answer I gave to this question about a month ago. As a lifelong city resident (well a short stint in the 'burbs) I totally disagree about not looking at city neighborhoods; it all depends on who you are and what you like. I like living in the city and hate the suburbs.

I also agree that the cost of living here allows for more travel than I would be able to do if I lived somewhere else. Now, here is a repost of my reply last month:

Author: tuscanlifeedit
Date: 08/24/2005, 10:10 pm
I live in Pittsburgh, and if I could buy a house in your price range, I would move to Shadyside or Squirrel Hill. Both neighborhoods are well integrated and you wouldn't be the only mixed race couple by any means.

Sewickley is just too too suburban for me. And although there are black neighborhoods, it seems to me that the races and income brackets are both kept much more separate in Sewickley than would suit me.

If you are considering starting a family, either Shadyside or Squirrel Hill would be a good choice, but my first choice as a family would Roslyn Farms. Much closer to the city, and while not urban at all, it is well populated by hip folks. Probably the hippest in a Pittsburgh suburb.

So, as a lifelong native of this place, if you do move here, those are the three areas I would suggest.

Is it provincial? Fairly so. Can you find a hip vibe, good food, decent shops, a lively set of well educated friends, a decent arts scene? Yep. We do.

Besides, if you live in the suburbs now, Shadyside will seem like a hip urban heaven.

I live in a city neighborhood that is decidedly working class. I am growing fonder of it than I ever was before. Why? New people coming to the 'hood from all over the world, bringing food and shops, and a different way of being that my old neighborhood really needed.

Back to you: You could buy a 400K house in Shadyside, Squirrel Hill or Roslyn Farms and think you died and went to heaven.

Tuscanlifeedit, I'm pretty much in agreement with your past post. I differ in one aspect. We don't live in Sewickley (husband would be saying here, "heaven forbid") but I actually admire their commercial zone. Vibrant shopping and community district.

As you pointed out, there are some suburbs like Roslyn Farms that aren't cookie-cutter, and that's the reason I have suggested people who relocate ask the important questions of relocation specialists.

Again, ditto on Squirrel Hill and Shadyside. In all likelihood, we're moving to one of those two (or we may do South Side) once the bambinos are out the door.

I am a woman now living in the Philadelphia suburbs. I grew up in SE Pennsylvania and lived in Pgh for 7 years. I was able to move back to SE PA about a year ago. While in Pittsburgh, I lived in both the city and suburbs. I did not enjoy my time in Pittsburgh. I am also in an interracial marriage and most people where not very accepting of it. Some people are outwardly racist. Particularly in the suburbs. I found Pittsburgh to be a very conservative town that did not share the values that I was accustomed to. There is not much cultural diversity and most people I met in Pittsburgh seemed to be born and raised there. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but an observation. Geographically, Pgh is not near much. I missed being within 2 hours of everything such as NYC, DC or the shore. To each his own though. For the amount that you are willing to spend on a house, you can get something really nice in Pittsburgh. The neighborhood you decide on is dependent of where you will be working. I lived in the south hills and there was no easy access to a major highway from there. With that said, there is nowhere else I would rather live than Philly. I love the location, food, people and climate. These are all things that I missed while living in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh may not be for everyone, but best of luck in whatever you decide.

"It just so happened that our lives fell into place right here. We travel incessantly, mainly because the cost of living here allows that."

And also because Pgh is so boring that you need to get out at every opportunity.

" live in Pittsburgh, and if I could buy a house in your price range, I would move to Shadyside or Squirrel Hill. Both neighborhoods are well integrated and you wouldn't be the only mixed race couple by any means."

Shadyside and Squirrel Hill both have serious crime problems. It's not Oakland or East Liberty, but they get the spillover. Living in the city is simply a bad idea these days. The payroll tax and the politicians alone are enough to drive anyone to the suburbs.

"Here's another downside, though. Teaching jobs are really hard to come by."

That's because Allegheny is the oldest county in America. Young people leave to find jobs and relatively few people move there. Hence, few kids.

I really laugh at all the people who are giving you this big advice about Pgh. They all live there. Its pure rationalization. Those who are from there but moved away have a much more objective view. The bottom line is that Pgh is OK, but

One last comment on the cheap housing. It is a mixed blesing. Consider this: 5-7 years from now when houses in every major urban US center have doubled andPittsburgh houses have stagnated or dropped, you won't be able to move even if you want. Cheap housesd are good up front, but in the long run you lose because they don't appreciate. You buy a house in a place like Pgh and 5 yesrs from now you won't be able to afford to move, even if you want to. I've seen it happen to many, many people I know in the burg. They get offerred a great job in DC or Atlanta and they can't afford to move there. So consider your move. Once you are there, you are likely giving up your future mobility.

Ok, I've been observing this thread for so long but just want to add my two cents...anything to balance out the negativity!

I lived in Pittsburgh for 6 years for college/grad school then moved away, so maybe I have an objective view? I've since lived on the edge of Philly and am right now across the river from Manhattan, and I travel back to Pittsburgh every chance I get...including a trip back this fall for a wedding of an interracial couple who happily lives in Pittsburgh...where I hope to visit my brother & his family who happily live right next to a gay couple with 3 kids...and I hope to someday move back to raise a family there too!!!

Would just add the Oakmont area to the lists of great neighborhoods - small town atmosphere, beautiful community, not too far from downtown (20-40 minutes depending upon traffic), great restaurants & the best bakery on earth...

Bs:

What is the opinion that if you don't live close to NYC, DC and the shore its not worth living there?

There are plenty of museums, libraries (Carnegie & separate communities) theatre, restaurant and music in the Pittsburgh area. There are at least a dozen state parks (free admission) within 1-2 hrs of Pittsburgh. Erie PA is 2 1/2 hours north on I-79. I've had the pleasant daytrips travelling to Columbiana, OH (antique shopping, East Liverpool, OH and Newell, WV (for Fiestaware) and Weirton, WV. Made this trip last Saturday. However, Pgh isn't unique there are plenty of smaller cities and towns that have just as much culture as a large ones - just that all the large cities believe they are culturally superior and have to put down other areas down to make themselves feel better. I don't envy them at all - miserable people stuck in overpopulated areas with no real escape.

I've got to respond to Amelia.

I'll have a break tomorrow from my sunglass wearing, it will finally rain in Pittsburgh. I haven't seen a big low front in weeks stick around. I don't think the sunglasses comment is outrageous. I head out to work everyday and have to wear them. Its been sunny throughout September and through the 1st week of October and I live 16 miles west of Pittsburgh. I live the stats and I don't see much overcast.

Amelia
I do think the center of Sewickley has its charms. My comment on the area referred to the separation of the races, but I guess in the very center, there is some integration.

As to another poster's comments on the weather: if one lives in Philadelphia or nearby, the weather won't be that different. Spring and fall in Pittsburgh are gorgeous. I love them both. Winter is gray and summer is humid, but that is no different than the rest of the Northeast. Today is October 6 and my large flower garden is 80 percent in full bloom.

Sorry, Steph, but this year has been an anomaly--check your stats for major US cities with least amount of sunshine over a ten-year period.

However, I do want to correct anyone's impression that we still have clouds of steel-mill gunk hanging in the sky. That stuff and the sulfur water run-off that turned the rivers unnatural shades of brown have been pretty much gone for awhile now.

Tuscanlifeaside, I think we're pretty much in agreement. I do not consider this to be a well integrated city. I've seen other cities do the integration thing better--and I've seen a lot of others do it worse.

No matter what, to all Pittsburgh naysayers, The Economist has voted it and Cleveland in the top 26 (they tied) of the world's most livable cities.

I heard about that Economist poll. I grew up in Pittsburgh's South Hills-- and I was rather mystified by the high ratings of Pittsburgh and Cleveland....

But I looked at the criteria, and it seems the factor making these cities rate highest of US cities (to be fair, the rated US cities were all quite high up in the total list) is their complete and utter disinterest to terrorists. Other US cities may (well, actually do) have a lot more to do, and have better infrastructure, but they are on terrorist attack lists. Pittsburgh and Cleveland, not surprisingly, are not. See:

http://store.eiu.com/index.asp?layou...mp;ref=pr_list

amelia:

you go believe the stats, I'll believe what I see when I go outside. The same cold fronts that cross Pittsburgh end up in Philly the next day. There are plenty of years here that have been more sunny than the east coast. I have visited the coast of Delaware, in July 2001, had 4 straight days of rain, decided to go back to SW PA and it was straight sunshine for the week. Many days in winter I've gone weekend hiking and the sun comes out throughout the winters of the 1990s. Half of December and all of January is very overcast but this time is only 1 1/2 months of the whole year. Stats are very misleading. If there is a partly cloudy day, even though the sun shines half or most of the day, it is considered a cloudy day. Therefore if you don't live in Pittsburgh you believe what some stat tells you.

zunub:

Upper St. Clair supposedly has the best educational system around. My mom's cousin wants to move back to Pgh and he is considering this area. Where I live, Imperial, PA, (18 miles west of Pittsburgh) there is West Allegheny School District, and people are moving out here in droves from other places in the area but this makes the housing unaffordable unless you get an older home from people who have had elderly relatives die off and these surviving relatives decide to sell. Upper St. Clair housing prices are through the roof also. I use to travel to South Hills Village (Upper St. Clair) regularly until they built a super mega mall with just about every restaurant, cafe and store available that is 4 miles from me.

There is also Sewickley (Quaker Valley School District) to consider and also Coraopolis, PA. Some of my mom's cousins came from here and I always thought it was a cute little town with little shops and old homes. Someone from my work is buying a big old victorian home a few blocks off 5th Avenue in this town and I told her she'd really like living there. However, you'll have to check out the school district, its small, but the quality is unknown to me. Moon Township is a few miles up the road from Coraopolis and that is Moon School District. Hope this helps.