Maui Blue Book: unsafe advice?
 

In keeping with the theme of a similar thread about Kauai....does anyone think that some of the places the authors suggest you visit on the beauteous isle of Maui are dangerous? if so, which ones? thanks! Until recently I thought everything these books said was gospel.

The "blue book" is reliable. What safety issues? Referring to snorkle areas or bad restaurants?

some of the hikes off the Hana Hwy, and the Seven Sacred Pools, or at the other end of the island, the Olivine Pools...

I have never read the book, but can tell you of mishaps, rescues and deaths that are often attributed to visitors following the advice in the book. Last year there was a drowning at the so-called olivine pools, which has been described in the book as "a calm playground in a stormy sea," and the man's brother was reported as saying they were only following the advice in the book.

There have been several rescues of hikers from lava tubes at Naili`ilihaele Stream (I don't know what silly name the book gives to this place--I only know the proper name), all of whom have said the book lead them to the site, which, by the way is on private land, clearly marked as such.

Hikers were trapped just recently at Helele'ike'oha Falls (you probably know it as the Blue Pool). Waioka Pool (I think this is the one they call Venus Pool) is just waiting for it's first real mishap. Again, private property. I see a great increase in ill-prepared hikers in slippers scurrying across the rocks and jumping from places that I would not jump. The same at Twin Falls.

I think the oddest MR-related thing I ever saw was a group of four-six adults and a handful of kids traipsing down the trail to Kaihalulu (Red Sand) Beach, one of them had a todddler in a backpack. The parents than caused a bit of an uproar when they discovered sunbathers in the buff, as this was offensive to their children. They had their copy of the book in plain view in one gentleman's hand as they came down the trail. The trail there is treacherous with much loose cinder and I would never hike down there with my child, let alone on my back! Does the book not mention it is a clothing optional beach?

The problem I hear cited most-often is that the authors present a false sense of security at places like these, places where a flash flood can come along at any time, or where one good wave could wash you out to sea. This has been presented to the authors, as well as requests that they also be more responsible in directing people to sacred, private and protected lands, but the best they could do was send a "representative" to the meeting. Their rep said that she would take the information back to the authors, who, as far as I know, have never responded to the requests.

I really wish the authors would use proper names for places, instead of the made-up names they use. It is culturally insulting. They claim to be taken in by the islands, so why not teach people to real names for places? I just don't get this. Would you go to ancient sites in Europe and make up new names for places to make it easier for the American visitors? Gee, Coliseum is too hard to pronounce and spell, let's call it the Roman Toilet Bowl.

here_today_gone2Maui - Very well said, I couldn't agree with you more.

For those of you love the "blue books", please remember that they are neither gospel nor totally reliable. The local folks whose private property has been trashed and trampled by the readers of these books understand that.

Here today, you know, you really ought to read the book before you criticize it.

The "silly name" the authors use for Naili`ilihaele is - Na'ili`ili-Haele (p.232-233).

They always say when private land is involved, but also go tell you to get permission before crossing it (p. 76 amongst others).

Yes, they say that the Red Sand Beach is used by nudists, and describe in detail how difficult it is to access the beach (p.97).

Unfortunately, many tourists who read this excellent guide book seem to leave what brain they have at home, along with whatever sense of responsibility they usually have. The authors of these books are not responsible for the actions of careless,ignorant people. If you read the whole book, not just the captions under photos, you will find most complaints are already addressed in the books and major revisions are not necessary. Clearly, many people do not read the whole book, just a few paragraphs here and there.

The Blue Book is wonderful, and if visitors turn off their brains and manners, why blame the messenger? I heard this same dumb rap from some places in Maui that got panned. Seems obvious why folks are upset with the authors for revealing what is actually going on in paradise. The only trashing I saw was by Maui residents. aloha.

This is obviously a hot button topic!
I read the book before i went to Maui: several times. Without having the real thing in front of me i will say that as i was reading i thought it all (the hikes, waterfalls, pools, etc.) sounded like one big cool theme park that i definitely shouldn't miss. i guess in hindsight it's a good thing that once i got to Maui i was too busy relaxing to run around trespassing on people's private property and flirting with danger!
seriously though, i think there's an issue here that's important and won't go away and shouldn't. the authors' enthusiasm is contagious. i know it's gotten to me. i don't consider myself all that ignorant and foolhardy, but i hate to feel that i'm missing out on anything either, and therein perhaps lies the problem for many of us tourists.

It has been my experience that American tourists have a bad habit of expecting the world to be sanitized for their pleasure, and they react with shock and dismay when they discover it hasn't been. Maybe it's our culture of warning labels on everything--my iron came with the caveat "do not iron clothing on the body". Or the pernicious influence of theme parks? Who knows. Sounds to me like the Blue Book is mostly accurate, but that some tourists assume the existence of safegaurds where there aren't any.

Put another way: how emphatically must a tour book point out that people can drown in an ocean, or that you could fall down and hurt yourself while hiking??

Should a tour book even mention things on private property?

I wouldn't like it if someone wrote "Durham Revealed" and said: walk around to the back of the house and take a good look at the magnolia tree.

Even if the author of Durham Revealed said it was private property, I wouldn't want my home to become a tourist attraction.

The problem with Helele'ike'oha Falls (Blue Pool) is that while the falls themselves are not on private property, you pretty much have to trespass on private property to get there. The people who live there are very unhappy about the situation and their liability should someone be injured or killed in the process of trying to get to the falls.

We went there last spring and yes, we had the book, but in our group of 8 people one person was reading it and was concentrating on directions. I would not go back -- there are plenty of other beautiful places to see without intruding on others right to privacy.

RE: E's comment...

AND, the authors DO give a warning at the beginning to the effect of "nature is not Disneyland, it's hard, rough, wet, and unpredictable, use common sense, dummy". Or something like that.

And yes, the Olivine Pools were calm at the bottom when I was there, except for the high point over which the ocean would roar, filling those beautiful pools. We saw idiots (I'm sorry, that's what they are) standing up there on the slippery rocks, shocked that a massive wave just hit them, and they very easily could have been washed away. You need to use common sense, people. Slippery rocks? A churning ocean? Muddy trails? You are not allowed to suspend common sense on vacation and no matter what the book says about a place, it needs to be evaluated at the moment you're there.

And to be fair, the authors often say things like "this is how we found these beaches at a certain time, you may find them differently and you always need to evaluate them for yourself" and "this place is great, but high surf means you can't go" or "if it's raining, don't go" or "watch the skies and beware of flash flooding at any time on a stream". The book is full of warnings, it isn't fair to selectively read it and say "but the book said it's okay". Yes, accidents and deaths are a sad occurence but to march blindly into nature and then blame it on the book? YOU are responsible for YOU, whether it's in Hawaii or crossing the street at home. Just because the light turned green doesn't mean it's safe to cross without looking both ways. "The green light said it's okay" is not an excuse, and neither is "the book said it's okay".

And, on another point, as mentioned by Barbara, the falls at Na'ili'ili-haele are called out as such. They also say that the Venus Pool's real name is Waioka, and I'm pretty sure they do the same with Blue Pool, as well as the Seven Deadly Pools and many, many other places throughout the islands. They probably feel if they only told you the Hawaiian name some people would look at you like you're nuts if you asked about it without knowing a "common name". There's also Keawanaku Beach in south Maui, which they claim they named, in deference to the ancient Hawaiian place name.

Sorry, I get a little worked up with so many people seemingly unwilling to take responsibility for themselves lately..."I didn't know the coffee would be hot", etcetera.

The point is, Stellaluna, go see whatever you desire, but when you get there, make sure that the conditions are good and you feel safe. Be careful of rogue waves at the Olivine Pools, be careful walking on chunky lava where it's easy to fall down or twist an ankle, be careful of rain/flash flooding at the Seven Deadly Pools and any other falls/pool (always watch the skies, the weather can move very quickly on Hawaii), and be careful of muddy trails--Na'ili'ili-haele was pretty muddy when we were there and it had places that required ducking and holding onto bamboo for support. And some people were made really nervous by the stream crossing at the beginning, and guess what? They turned back! Good for them!

love
roxy

I have not visited Maui though I am planning to go next May, so I have the 'blue book' as well as other guide books (Lonely Planet and Rough Guide) - Yes I'm a guide book junkie! And I have been using these boards alot to plan ... so this is just my two pennies based on that...

It seems to me that the blue books do not reveal a lot more than say LP and RG - for instance the Blue Pool is in both these guidebooks. However I think what they do do is make the information a lot more accessible - just in the way the book is written, and also there is a lot more detail on how to access these places. It is written in such a way that some ppl will take it as gospel.

Though the books are an excellent resource - they are really detailed in the beaches and activities section for instance - I am not sure I agree with how much they do reveal. Part of the fun of a holiday is to explore - the books kind of take that pleasure away.

I also really don't think its necessary to give bad reviews for hotels, restaurants. Other guidebooks just list positive reviews - and I've read that some businesses have really suffered due to the blue book.

I can see why the books receive a bad press in Hawaii - I myself come from a small island that attracts a lot of tourism (admittedly not on the same scale as Hawaii) - and if my favourite places were suddenly overrun by tourists it would certainly annoy me!

Anyway... just my 2 pennies

I am in agreement with all above who advocate people taking responsibility for themselves. I have the informative "Blue Books," and do not feel the authors are responsible for a reader who acts stupidly, and reads into a book what he wants to.

"HereToday" has often said that she has NOT read "Maui Revealed," then proceeds to trash it. Her credibility plummets with that statement. We all need to comment on what we actually know something about.

Another thought on this topic: Barbara referred to this -"They always say when private land is involved, but also go tell you to get permission before crossing it (p. 76 amongst others)".

Can you imagine how much "fun" it is for the owners of the mentioned private property to be literally besieged by the readers of these books? Day in and day out, every day, all day, having people come into your yard, knocking at your door, asking permission to go through their property? The first 10 times it might have been ok. But then, imagine if it was your home, your yard, and then 50, 100, 200, 500 people assuming that since the "Blue Bible" is "reliable", it should therefore be OK to come knock at your door, and interfere with your daily life. Not to mention those people who neglect to ask and just trespass. Is it any wonder at all that local people refer to the books as Maui "Reviled"?

Over stated, over stated! I'm beginning to wonder if some of those secondrate guide books for Maui (the jealous ones who didn't create something as interesting as the Blue Book) are posting here. To hear their hysteria, you'd think the goths had invaded paradise and were trashing private lawns as they lugged their boards to the beaches. Hysterics up!

travelplans, I'm a fan of the "Revealed" books and I will continue to use them (and the websites, which are invaluable for deciding on where to stay). But my conversation with a local at Blue Pool did change my mind about that particular location and others where you must trespass on private land. It's simply a matter of the Golden Rule.

Hmmm, we used the Blue Book in Maui twice this year, extensively, and I don't recall a single trespass. I didn't trash anything either. Obviously one must use care and judgment at the pools by the falls and ocean. The Book doesn't advise anyone to take risks or throw caution to the wind. The "Blue" recommended that Maui Taco chain, and it was sfilthy, so we passed. Judgment always, always. These ninnies whining about the Blue Book sould like a bunch of Naderites! Isn't that right, Ahhhnoold?

Regarding trespassing, the authors also state that while the trails they follow may cross private lannd, they have been used for many years by locals. The authors did not, from what I read, initiate new trails. Perhaps it would be in the interest of everyone if the local authorities looked into making these trails public rights-of-way. Obviously, there would be pros and cons, but instead of just complaining about one of the island's major sources of income and blaming the authors of a guide book, why not try to do something constructive?

So travelplans - you think that local people who complain about their property being trashed are ninnies? How unkind of you.

I was going to say: why don't you send us your address so that we could do the same thing to your property, and then watch your reaction, but that obviously wouldn't work. Nor would it be very nice of me. So let me just say this: we obviously disagree about these books. And, if you search this site and read the other posts about them, you'll find that the people who are most upset about the books are the people who live in Hawaii. Not the people who visit. It's not only private property that's being damaged: it's also restricted conservation land.

Once again, please read the following:
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar.../ln/ln01a.html

"Though the books are an excellent resource - they are really detailed in the beaches and activities section for instance - I am not sure I agree with how much they do reveal. Part of the fun of a holiday is to explore - the books kind of take that pleasure away."

Who is stopping you from exploring further? They haven't discovered everything on all the islands. Would you make that same comment about other guidebooks?

love
roxy

"Regarding trespassing, the authors also state that while the trails they follow may cross private lannd, they have been used for many years by locals."

Surely there is a huge difference between seeing your neighbor cut across your backyard and having dozens of people every day (or more) do the same?

The real trashers I witnessed were clearly locals, not tourists. For some reason, the locals seem to get a real burn about that book. I actually believe what's at play here is resentment that any of us tarvel to the islands and enjoy them. I think Maui has a raging Oregonian complex. Surfs up!

wooo, oregonian complex! believe it or not, that one came out all by its lonesome. wooo, how funny!

Marilyn, legally, there may not be any difference at all, and how many of these trails actually go through backyards where the homeowner can see people?

But why doesn't Maui county set up a system of trails? Anybody using the trails would have to have buy a pass, which could be for varying lengths of time, at varying costs. The cost of the passes would pay for maintenance of the trails and for a small number of rangers to patrol the trails. The people of Maui are not shy about gouging tourists for tours, etc., so why the reluctance to do something here? You know this could be resolved, but all I see is whining. Well, how badly will they whine when those millions of tourist dollars go elsewhere?

travelplans - and you spend 365 days a year in Hawaii?

Barbara, I meant "backyard" as a metaphor. I don't know about the other places in MR that might involve trespassing on private property. My only experience was at Blue Pool.

However, we were there on an overcast weekday in March, not exactly the busiest tourist season, and there were dozens of people milling around, crossing the stream, etc. (I can only imagine how many people are there on a sunny day in December.) I wouldn't like it if I lived there. It was not a matter of trashing the area, but simply of people being there.

In any case, with the world political situation the way it is, I doubt if Hawaii tourist dollars will do anything but skyrocket. Most people would prefer to take their chances being washed out to sea by a rogue wave to being the victim of a terrorist bomb, even though their chances of the former are probably far greater than the latter.

travelplans - you never did respond to my statement about your calling local people ninnies...

And now you say," For some reason, the locals seem to get a real burn about that book. I actually believe what's at play here is resentment that any of us tarvel (sic) to the islands and enjoy them "

We've already explained the "burn about the books", or didn't you believe what we wrote?. As for your imagined observation of our resentment... we like people who come to the islands and enjoy them. We like people who love our land and respect it and its beauty. What we don't like is people who refer to us as ninnies for expressing our honest opinions about the destruction of our property and watershed lands.

Leelane, you need to read my post again. Did you miss the part where I said I can only share some of the "mishaps, rescues and deaths that are often attributed to visitors following the advice in the book."? Every few weeks we read in the local news of a mishap, and nearly always the trapped hikers or a member of the unfortunate's family is quoted as saying they thought they were in a safe place because of what they read in the book.

Do the authors say that Naili`ilihaele is on private property owned by Alexander and Baldwin and is part of the East Maui Irrigation watershed lands? Earlier this year when 24 hikers were trapped there A&B was seriously concerned about how to best protect themselves, since obviously posting signs was not sufficient. The hikers told the fire chief who rescued them they found their way to the site via MR. Had one of those hikers died, do you think the families would sue the MR authors, or A&B? This a very legitimate concern, and one does not have to have read the book to be aware of such occurrances here on the island.

I have friends who own property adjecent to one of the locations featured in the book. They have experienced many problems with traffic in what was once a peaceful quiet rural area. Now they can set their clocks by the arrival of the first cars each day. The grass and plants they once had growing on the edge of their property has now become a muddy parking area. They have given up trying to keep the cars off of their lawn. Additionally, they are now very concerned about their property values. They are thinking of listing what until very recently was their dream house, because of the extreme increase in traffic and people, but they are pretty sure that this will be a negative selling point to any potential buyers.

And as for the place names, I stand corrected if the authors do use the correct names, but, again, this is only a common sentiment I hear regarding the book, specifically from Uncle Charles Kauluwehi Maxwell, a respected Hawaiian activist, culturalist and a member of the Ahihi-Kinau/Keoneoio Advisory Group. Again, this purely anecdotal, but one does not need to read the book to see and hear the impact it has had.

And, although some of you feel the authors provide sufficient warnings, perhaps it might behoove them to be a bit more clear for those who do not fully get it. Not everyone who visits here has experience with the ocean, with tropical storms, hiking through the hot sun, over jagged a`a or swimming in and around coral reefs. Another seriously common complaint I hear is the failure of the authors to thoroughly explain kapus and fully indentify sacred places. It is really nice to say that we should rely on personal repsonsibility to not trespass or place ourselves in the way of danger, but a little education can go a long way. I hate reading of visitors who are injured or worse on their vacations here.

Why would the Maui people rely on guide book authors to identify sacred places? Why doesn't the local authority/tourist board/whatever so this? These things you'r all so unhappy about are notgoing to stop just because, on Maui, one guide book isn't available.

Here Today, once again, READ THE BOOK! Or, stop telling us what's wrong with it.

As usual, I find Here_today's posts to be helpful, thoughtful and intelligent. She is posting to report on how people who live on Maui perceive Maui Revealed. She does not claim to have first-hand knowledge of the text, but clearly does have helpful first-hand knowledge of how people on Maui think about the book. Her comments are valuable regardless of whether she has read the book.

And I also usually find Here Today's posts to be knowledgeable and very helpful, but in this case, by repeating what is virtually gossip, no matter who it comes from, she is perpetuating falsehoods. I'm not going to call them lies, because they're not, really. They are ignorant assumptions, though. However, she doesn't just repeat things, she makes judgements too.

Travelplans, all guide book restaurant recommendations are out of date by the time the book is printed, unfortunately. So you have to take them cautiously.

Yes, these are places that have been used by locals for many years. But the big difference is the jump from a few people to hundreds a day. I have heard of upwards of 300 cars a day stopping at Ula'ino Road. Some of the places have great cultural significance, and have been visited by many generation of kupuna. Other places, if you ask locals, they might be reluctant to tell you how to get there, whether for your own good, or because you just don't belong there. Try asking locals in Hana how to get to Kaihalulu. Chances are they will ask you "Why you want go there?"

We have many trails here on Maui. We have Haleakala National Park full of trails. Poli Poli, around the crater, `Iao Valley--all have clearly marked trails, complete with warnings posted, park rangers, facilities. Would you go to say, any random area in New Hampshire or Arizona and hike through private lands? Sure locals might be hiking in there, but they know the terrain, know the dangers, and probably know the landowners.

I sincerely doubt that restricting tourist access to private lands will affect the tourist trade here. We have miles of beaches--all public lands, much National and State park lands. For years people have been coming here without the need to swim in a stream on private land.

Most of the visitors I meet are wonderful people and most of those who live here are open and friendly to those of you who come here to visit. Aloha is very much alive and well, and if you give aloha, you will get it back ten fold. But respect is important. You would expect visitors to your home to respect you and your home, wouldn't you? Taking the attitude that we should be falling at your feet because you chose to come here to vacation will not endear you to anyone here. Sure, tourism is a large part of our economy, but if it were to go away forever tomorrow most of the islands would simply revert back to the fishing and agricultural societies that many wish we still had. Those who came here to profit from the tourism would just move on. My husband lived here in the 1960's and 1970's, before there was tourism. He lived a carefree life, spear fishing, surfing, cutting bananas, working at the long-gone distillery and on the ranches. He often waxes poetic and laments the loss of the simpler life he remembers.

And talk about how we "gouge" visitors will not endear you to us either. Doing business here is very expensive; living here is expenisve. This is in part due to the tourism on the island. Much of the land has been converted to tourism uses, thus raising the costs across the board. When there were no hotels or vacation rentals, land was cheap, thus taxes were low. I know many small business owners who eke out a meager living, serving the needs of tourists. Costs are higher, so the prices are high too. If you are referring to the large resorts, then shame on you for allowing them to gouge you. But they are not the people of Maui--they are mainland and Japanese corporations who will gouge you as easily anywhere else in the world. I think if you stopped to think about what you are saying and compare the cost of services to those in other resort areas, you will find that no one is gouging you.

Barbara, I wish you much aloha. If you feel that I am in some way trying to mislead you by sharing with you, I apologize for not being able to express myslef more clearly. If you search the Maui News, the Honolulu Advertiser or other news sources you can find all of the events I have recanted, including the references to MR. Not everyone who visits here is savvy enough to know that there is danger in the ocean and in the mountain streams, and sadly, many are injured or worse. The question was posed, what places in the book could be considerd unsafe? I do not need to read the book to know what places can be unsafe here on our wonderful island. Nor do I need to read the book to see how people I know personally are affected by large numbers of visitors in their neighborhood, or to read in the paper how Alexander and Baldwin fear they may someday face a lawsuit because are being led to dangerous palces on thier property.

Maui is a wonderful place and we love to share it with anyone who can appreciate the beauty of our island. But you must understand that people live here, just as you live in your neighborhood, and they deserve the same respect that you deserve in regards to your privacy and your property.

You know what everyone.... I DON'T NEED TO BE FAIR TO THE AUTHORS. Here-today-gone-to-Maui does not need to read the books. She has intimate information that makes her a perfect witness to the effects this book has had on this island. I own three of their books, Maui, Kauai and Big Island. I have read them front to back. I have invested my money in their product. I have advised others to check their books out. And days like today, breezing thru many of the previous posts, I regret recommending their book. What has the Blue book offered me personally? Triking and the dangerous but glorious Olivine Pools. That's truly it! $45 for 3 books. I found blue pool on my own, reading about it in an obscure place for the perfect picnic spot. My first trip to Blue Pool, I had locals waving and laughing because they knew with my car, I was a tourist in the know. My presence was welcomed, so long as they didn't have to tow me out!The last time I visited, well it was a short trip. The vibe is lost. The neighbors have been violated. You could just feel it. How would you like 100 to 500 people a day suddenly parking in your front yard, and then cutting thru your woods to leave trash on your hidden neighborhood gems? I am always looking for hidden gems. However, I prefer to hear from people from this forum and fellow adventurers. If you are staying in Hana, investing in the community, you will be told the hidden gems.
Furthermore, they recommended many to hike into sacred land to snorkling spots past Makena. Bad for the spirits and the ecosystems. I love the entertainment value of the book. I recognize what they were trying to do, but they have done damage, tremendous damage. Really with no intent. You can find all these places without their help, if you search it out and are a true adventurer. They took the guessing out of it. They brought what should be well regarded and respected special places, and brought them to the masses, without any thought of how their actions would effect the way of life of many islanders, fish, and wildlife. Roxy.....you have confused me. We usually see eye to eye. Perhaps I misread some of these posts.

If you love it, Protect it!!! Otherwise, the only choice will be like Martha's Vineyard in MA, where there are private beaches, that only people renting in that area can gain access to. In due time, if I owned in Hana, this would be the option I would look for. Protect the beauty for the true visitors. Want to hike to redbeach, venus pool, show us your house rental pass..........it could happen.
Wow that was longwinded, sorry. I just need to defend the Mauians being attacked by tourists on this subject. You have no right, untill you live there and pay taxes there.

Mahalo
gyppielou

Barbara, darling, where do you live? I would truly love to come visit and discuss why you think you have more rights then people of this island. Maybe, I missed that you live there and pay taxes. If that is the case, I truly apologize for questioning you. However, if you are a tourist, or a friend of the authors then please repost and state your full intent before continuing to attack the residents of Maui.

G'lou,

What are you confused about? Let me know...

love
roxy

I just read somewhere that there was another incident this month (just before Thanksgiving) on Maui concerning this blue book. The tourist sounded extremely angry. Read it here.
http://mauinews.com/story.aspx?id=3302

Roxy,

A fair point... I'm sure they haven't discovered everything about the islands. I guess the point I was making (not very well!) was that for my tastes theres just a little too much detail... my kind of guide gives me a few pointers and I go out there and discover on my own. Everyone's different, thats just my opinion.

do you not think the 'specialness' (sorry my brain is failing me, can't think of a better word) of some of these places could be lost by the way they are described in so much detail in the books? I've not been to Maui of course, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about! But that is just the sense I get.

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that everyone has to take responsibility for themselves I do feel the authors have a responsibility to Hawaii and its residents over what they decide to put in print. All imho of course!

I just read the article that Offlady referred to. A quote from it:

'At the Blue Pool, they saw "no trespassing" signs, but thought the signs were posted to keep people from venturing down nearby driveways. Vehicles parked at the end of the dirt road and a crowd of other tourists also gave the Pickels the impression that it was OK for them to be there, she said.'

That lady and her husband chose to ignore the posted warning. They are not victims!

ttt