Lost in AZ and UT
 

Hi everybody
Whether wisely or not, my hub, self and son are planning a US cross-country next year (June, from the UK - and we only have just over 3 weeks to do it in. The plans are more-or-less done, but we are a bit stuck in between Santa Fe and Palm Springs! We have 6 nights to play with and *must* sees are Monument Valley and Death Valley. We've 'done' Grand Canyon, Zion, Bryce, Sedona, Petrified Forest, Meteor Crater (and Vegas) on previous trips. What we haven't seen are Canyon de Chelly and Arches. I have, half pencilled in,

Day 1 Santa Fe to Chinle
Day 2 Chinle to Monument Valley
Day 3 MV to Moab
Day 4 Somewhere in between Moab and Vegas; anywhere will do that's convenient
Day 5 Vegas
Day 6 Death Valley
and then on to Palm Springs etc.

This is do-able - but my concerns are that we will not actually have time to see anything - ie not enough time to take an organised trip at Chelly (although we should have enough time at MV) or to do much hiking at Arches. So my question is, are these places still worth seeing, if we don't get to see much of them?

Thanks.

Yes, worth seeing!

Day 4, can't think of anything to see between Moab and Vegas except North Rim Grand Canyon (but you said you have seen it and Zion). There is a town about an hour from Vegas, Mesquite if you just need a stopping place.

Or driving via Capital Reef Park to Vegas might be worthwhile. Nice scenery and drive.

Hope this helps

Allow almost a full day at Canyon de Chelly -- get there early enough to spend several hours driving a rim road and stopping at overlooks, then take a take guided trip into the canyon in the afternoon.

The drive from Chinle to Monument Valley is pretty quick (2+ hours, minimal awesome scenery demanding photo ops) but MV at midday is not nearly as stunning as at sunrise or sunset.
Or if you reach Chinle in the late afternoon, do a rim drive then, and the guided canyon tour the next morning, leaving after lunch for MV to reach there in the late afternoon, but well before sunset. Mid-June will have sunsets around 8:00 in Navajo territory (9:00 in the rest of Arizona). It is a spectacular area and you will love it.

Don't go to Canyon de Chelly unless you have time for the tour. There's not much to see except views from the rim unless you take a tour into the canyon.

These are huge distances that you are driving and you probably wont have much time at the sights. Is it worth the long drive to spend part of a day in Arches? Same thing with Monument Valley. You need to spend several days there.

I also would not encourage you to visit Death Valley in June. It's a furnace then. It's a winter/early spring destination. Only crazy Europeans go there in the summer. Unless you can get out of the car and hike in the canyons or the dunes, it's not worth going.

Palm Springs will also be blazing hot. From Vegas, I would go up to Yosemite or Lake Tahoe instead.

Thanks GrannyJane - I will look up Mesquite - anywhere will do for just a night's stop - but if there's something of interest, all the better! Thanks - you've made me decide to definitely go for it!
Thanks too, Kayd - yes, I think we should be able to take the morning trip at Chinle and then also the morning trip at MV - we'll try for that anyway.
Erm, Supercilious - I've just got back from blazing Seville and, despite being a crazy European, I've missed out on Death Valley twice already and am ready to roast! :) I didn't think they were huge distances - just little ones, by comparison to those we've done before or intend to do on this trip. Palm Springs I have had 2nd thoughts about, but the villa's are very cheap (because it's too hot!). Anyway, cheers - what you say is very sensible, but leave can only be taken at certain times and we've made up our minds. If we went in the winter, we'd freeze in Chicago! :)

In all honesty, I think you are going to be spending way to much time driving to enjoy anything. I'd skip either Moab/Arches (because this area needs at least two full days and three would be much better) or skip Las Vegas (since you've been) and Death Valley...don't worry...you'll roast in Arizona and Utah.

Utahtea

Hi utateah
I've spoken to you before when you kindly gave me great advice on Bryce and Zion, back in 2004!
I'm very dithery on what to do! I know there's a long time to go before the trip (nearly a full year!), but know from experience that you need to at least have a general idea if you want to book accommodation in the Parks. At the moment (or at this second - it might change in the next!), I'm thinking about swapping Canyon de Chelly for Durango, then MV and then Arches. Still dithering on Death Valley. yes, am fully aware it's VERY hot, but I would dearly love to see it. However, all is up for change!
We would love to spend more time at these places, but we just cannot. We are in our fifties and this might be our last trip to the US; you don't know what's around the corner with health etc - and we always promised ourselves we'd do a cross-country trip. We are not great hikers anyway - we love to just travel the roads and stop at the diners and savour everything that your beautiful country has to offer - and this includes your polite, friendly people and your sandwiches! I remember, on our first morning on our first trip to the USA. I woke at about 6 am and sat outside on the terrace of our room in Scottsdale, AZ, for a smoke. It was my birthday! As I sat there, a cactus just came in flower and there were birds I'd never seen before. What made my heart completely leap, was the sight of a hummingbird! I remember saying to my hub that even if we had to leave the country and fly home, that afternoon, that the trip and the cost was worth it, just for that alone!
But I asked the question and I'm grateful for your responses. Ta!

I'd choose Canyon de Chelly over Durango. If you do Durango, you need to drive the Million Dollar highway to Ouray to really see the mountains.

If you only have a short time and maybe not going to be coming back...then do your route..a glimps is better than never at all! :)

Do you really have to go to Palm Springs? I'd drop that in a heart beat!

Utahtea

If you are going to Palm Springs, dont overlook the possibility of seeing Joshua Tree National Forest. And it was interesting to us to drive a few miles further toward Mecca (my map does not show the route number) to see evidences of the San Andreas Fault having heard so much about it.

Hi utahtea
I think I'm getting flustered and bothered in trying to get this trip perfect! There are worst problems to have to deal with!
I thought Durango as it would break up the journey to MV. But perhaps that's doable in one go and still give us time to do the tour.
No, we don't have to go to Palm Springs! We've just come back from a wonderful trip to Portugal where we stayed in our own villa with our own private pool and it was totally idyllic - so we would like to end our long cross-country USA trip with a few days lolling around a pool - it doesn't really matter where - but Palm Springs has some luxurious properties at very low rent (because it's so hot in the summer, no doubt!) We haven't been there, and would like to visit, but perhaps one night would do and we could rent somewhere a bit cooler! I have a place in Fallbrook (north of San Diego) on my list. Is the weather good there? I wouldn't want to swim in a pool if it was cold - LOL!
Anyway, I have to stop planning for a while and get on with some work! I would be happier if we flew from the east coast to the west, but husband says that's 'cheating'!! But I'm trying to get the middle bit over with as quickly as possible, and have already dumped Cape Cod and Niagara (for another trip, hopefully), and have some really long driving distances (400 miles per day). Current plan is NYC 3 nights, Cleveland (or thereabouts), Chicago 2 nights, St Louis (or thereabouts), Memphis, then across to OKC, Amarillo and up to Santa Fe, before doing the AZ, UT, NV bits and ending up in California. Our last night, before flying home, is planned for Laguna Beach.

Hi pollyvw
Yes, Joshua Tree is on my list! We saw loads of those trees when we were in Calif before - but not been to the national park. Thanks for the tip about Mecca, which I've found on my map - but also can't find a road number. Very interesting - just my kind of thing!

It sounds like you will be in DV and Palm Springs near the end of June. You could not pay me to go to Death Valley or Palms Springs at that time of year. <b>HOT</b> does not come close to describing it. It will be much too hot to go outdoors after about 9 or 10 a.m. -- even to go in the pool.

There is a reason the rates are so low. And even so, they cannot sell many rooms. Both places will be deserted except for a few barmy German and British visitors.

So to give you more time for the rest of your itinerary you can drop DV and PS and add those days. Or - spend the time in San Diego.

Yes, it's worth the stop anyway. Canyon de chelly, you can do a 4 hr tour. We did an early morning one and not too bad. The drive to MV was nice too and we did another tour there (sunset tour) too but then slept in Kayenta.

I was in Death Valley in July a few years back and it was really hot but the heat added to &quot;being in Death Valley&quot;. It's a spectacular place and shouldn't be missed. The higher points like Aguerberry, are cooler since you are higher up but a place not to be missed there is the playa with the moving rocks. Really spectacular pictures can be taken there. Scotty's castle was also a nice stop.

meant to say &quot;yes it is worth the stop anyway, especially if you think this will be your last trip to the US. As Utahtea said, better to have a glimpse than not at all and anyway, you enjoy the road travelling and not hikers.&quot;

I don't know why that didn't show up at all....

Hi wildblueyonder,

Palm Springs and Death Valley (in summer) are NOT the places to waste your very short and precious time!

I would highly recommend re-vamping this trip and see some of the things that are much more WOW. Monument Valley, Canyon de Chelly, Arches.

Fallbrook???? You have GOT to be kidding. Nice, I guess if you like avocado ranches.

Hi y'all
Maria - you sound like a person after my own heart - yes, Let's Do It!! Maybe us Europeans are more hardy than you Americans, janisj &lt;very big grin&gt; And Palm Springs is actually cooler than LV today! (Although I would prefer to avoid LV anyway ....) There were about 10 times as many barmy (though probably hardy! :)) Americans in Seville last week, as Brits, where the temp was well over 100 - but, like us, they seemed to be enjoying themselves (and crouched, sweating in shady corners, clutching their precious bottles of water!)
Seriously, how far is it to walk (from car) to the viewpoints in Death Valley? Like Artist's Pallete, Zabrinski Point and Badwater? If a long way, then it probably wouldn't be wise to try (but we probably still will). I just want to experience it - I deeply regret not going to the park, when we were very close (Baker) a couple of years ago. We don't intend to drive far - just inside the park and out again - maybe we won't even spend the night. And it wouldn't be the same if it was a comfortable temperature! :)
Fallbrook? It's just that there's a nice place to crash there - up in the hills but convenient to SD and the beaches. Avocado ranches sound cool!
Cheers, guys - all your comments/suggestions are mulling around my head.

The only reason to go to Death Valley in the summer would be to say you've been out in 120 degree heat. We went in august and looking back, it wasn't the brightest idea. You couldn't spend more than 20 min outside of the car, because it was like standing in a heater. There was no relief, even at night. We couldn't do more than about a 1/4 mile hike or else we would be overheated, and so mostly we just drove around and looked from the car.

But, if you want to try it, there are a few people who do.

Hiya - no, I just want to SEE it (I've just finished a degree in geology and those sorts of things interest me!) - I don't mind if it's from the car; I'm not a very fit geologist! It's my only real chance - this is a special trip - we can't afford to go flying to the USA on whims in different seasons, I'm afraid.
And I am a pretty cautious person, believe it or not! Last year, I finished my degree off with a report on the risk and mitigation of lahars from Mt Rainier. And (coincidentally) we did a trip of the Pacific North West, Yellowstone and Canadian Rockies last year - so we went to visit 'my mountain'. Because of all the research I'd done, I was afraid to sleep in the valleys in case of mudflows - LOL!

Well...if you like geology, then Death Valley will be a good graben for you to see. There will be alluvial fans too. Make sure to check out artist's point!

Cheers, dockruins - will do!
Now then, that's decided - now where to rent this darned villa ....
Palm Springs and various nearby towns, Beverley Hills(although only a tiddler), Santa Barbara (a bit dear) Anaheim or Fallbrook? (These are the only ones I could find with pool, at reasonable cost, which would rent for less than a week).

wildblueyonder,

the overlook for zabriske is right where you park your car. You can do a small hike that's easy if you like but it's right there. The same with aguerberry point. You can actually drive through most of the stuff to see - actually, there is hiking of course but not necessary. Artiste palette same thing and badwater, same thing. Even Devil's (or is it Dante's) view point you can drive to. Heck, you can take pictures from your car if you can't stand the heat. DV is VERY doable according to what you want to see and do. If you want to see Death Valley, then I say do it and don't worry about the heat too much, just prepare for it. Make sure you jave plenty of water for you and your car and just don't use the A/C when you're going up extreme hills (it will have signs warning you anyway). Like I said, we did it in July and yes, it was very hot and feels much like a convection oven but if you are prepared for it both with gear and psychologically, DV is spectacular not to miss. If you love the desert like I do and it sounds like you do, DV is not to be missed. Honestly. I remember we talked about going to DV when we were at the GC south rim (with my ex) and I rememeber thinking he was nuts. It turned out to be one of my most favorite desert trips. Go, enjoy.

Oh, and I like SB as a choice but expensive there. Never been to Palm Springs and will be there in November. Always wanted to visit the Katalina islands. DOn't know how good an option that is but it can be reached from Laguna area....

meant Catalina with a C, not a K - off the coast of Cali.

Oh, just a tip. You know what we did as a special preparation for our DV trip? We bought 2 disposable coolers. Filled one with ice and water and the other one with just ice too. I made a habit of carrying ice in the camelbak and when we hiked, i would constantly take some out and put it on my head under my cap. That helped alot.

maria_so

Your recommendation to go out to the playa with the movable rocks in the middle of June needs to be addressed. This area is called the Racetrack. It's in a remote part of DVNP and you need a rugged vehicle to get there. It's not regularly patroled in the summer and if they had any vehicle problems out there they could become feed for the vultures. This is a great area to go in the cooler months with proper preparation.

wildblueyonder

You don't want to have a car in NYC or Chicago. I have no idea why you want to visit Cleveland. St. Louis and Memphis can be miserable in June. The hot days never cool off. The rest of your trip is fly-over country until you get to Santa Fe. I'd fly from NY to Chicago and then fly to Denver or Albuquerque and start your Western drive. Then you might have more time to see these incredible parks. One other park to consider is Mesa Verde. It's near Durango and on your way from Santa Fe to Moab.

Thanks maria - a cooler is a good idea. We bought one (and left it behind) last time we went (it 90+ degs in Seattle, amazingly!!) I have to drink tons of water anyway, so we're never without a good supply - will make sure it's even more when we go to DV! Have a great time in Palm Springs!

I haven't read all the details of the posts but I do want to comment on Fallbrook. It is lovely there but in summer it is extremely hot as well. I would opt for a place on the water north of San Diego (Carlsbad, Encinitis, solana Beach, Del Mar etc)

Hi Supercilious
We won't be hiring a car until after NY and we'll park it up and leave it for a couple of days for Chicago. I don't want to visit Cleveland - it's just the requirement of a night's sleep somewhere! It might not be Cleveland. Yes, we could fly, but we want to drive the distance (and my hub hates flying - it takes all my efforts to get him to fly there and back, without extras!). I doubt we will stop in cities (apart from NY and Chicago), because we prefer the countryside - St Louis and Memphis are routes, rather than destinations really. I don't particularly want to see NY or Chicago either - I'd be happy amongst the rocks - but I'm not going alone; there are others to consider and I'm trying to sort out a trip to suit all.
Yes, Mesa Verde is 'on my list', although I've heard it takes a long time to drive to, so it might not be a good idea. I've thought of spending the night there (instead of Durango area), but the accommodation doesn't appear to be all that great (according to the reviews).

On our recent Arizona trip, we bought a disposable cooler but found water seeping through the plastic foam and soaking the car seat. Then we transferred all the ice from the original bag into several ziplock bags (2 gal each) and not a drop escaped as the ice melted. We put one bag in the bottom, then a layer of water and soda cans/bottles, more ice, more beverages, topped with the last bag of ice.

Hi traveller69
Fallbrook is hot too? Darn! I looked up today's weather and it said 80, which would be ideal. I'd love to stay on the coast, but, unfortunately, all the rentals (which we've really set our hearts on for 3 or 4 days, to rest up a bit after our long trip) are either for minimum 1 week or are far too expensive.
Back to the drawing board!

great tip, kayd - thanks!

Wildblue - Fallbrook isn't as bad as some places - don't want to mislead you there and there are some shady areas of course. I've spent a lot of very hot summers there and have escaped to the coast. Have you looked at VRBO.com? There are a lot of private rentals on the coastal areas.

Hi traveller69
Yes, I've trawled right through the vrbo site until my eyes have gone crossed - that's where I found Fallbrook. Yes, there are loads of lovely places by the ocean - unfortunately (though not unreasonably) they ask for weekly rentals in the summer (apart from one or two, which are either extortionately priced or closets!) We would really like a private pool too.

wildblueyonder, sorry, i didn't mean think about the car to the racetrack in DV (the rangers also referred to it as the playa). We did have a 4x4 when we went and was warned of possibly not seeing anyone at all while we were out there. It is gorgeous though.

maria_so

Yes, the Racetrack is a wonder. Can't wait to get back out there this November. Have you been to Saline Valley? If you have the nerve and right vehicle, you can drive up from Saline right by the Racetrack. Not for the faint-hearted though.

wildblueyonder

We have trains in the US. Take the train from NY to Chicago and then on to Denver where you can pick up a car.
I've driven across the mid-section of the country four times because of relocation and it is not that much fun. Better to spend your days in the scenic part of the country.

Saline Valley - noted and thanks! Never been but looks like something right up my alley.

The trouble with trains is that you cannot get off and explore - you lose your freedom. There is plenty of interest to be found in all places, if you look for it. Mark Twain's birthplace (Becky Thatcher's picket fence!), The Long Walk, Elvis's kitch hotel, The Big Texan Steak Ranch(!!). I know precisely what you mean about spending time in the beatifully scenic areas, because, although we've only spent 6 short weeks of our lives touring the western states, we've been completely bowled over by the stunning places we've visited. But we would like to savour the full diversity of the country - warts and all!

...and i think that's what's why you take the trouble too, wildblueyonder. That's why you drive endless miles sometimes, to see these quirky things. I agree a train ride can be fun but I like being in control of when I go, where I go, and how much time to spend there.

Was at Canyon de Chelly last year and did not take the tour however, we really enjoyed talking with the folks in the park.... learned alot about the land, history, customs, etc. Very enjoyable - and picked up some great handmade souvenirs ! More meaningful than buying something off a shelf in a store/shop ! I know everything about my 'souvneirs' - from start to finish, where the material came from used to make them, etc. Enjoy ! It was not a planned part of the trip but 'happened' to be close enough that we made the side trip - and it was my favorite - other than the Grand Canyon !

Sure, there are plenty of interesting things to see in the Mid-West and Great Plains but the driving between these points is not as scenic as the drives out west.

I could give you a 2 week itinerary of interesting places to visit starting in St. Louis and traveling through Missouri, Illinois, and Tennessee. Places like Daniel Boone's home in Defiance, MO, Cahokia Mounds, Fort Kaskaskia, Lincoln's birthplace, Mammoth Caves, Lincoln's home in Springfield, etc.

One neat place to visit in Ohio is Put-In Bay on Lake Erie. This is the site of Perry's victory over the British and there's a awesome memorial here. There's tons of stuff to see in the Great Lakes region. I could also give you a two week itinerary for upper Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Ontario as part of a circle tour of Lake Superior.

The point is that you only have three weeks and by driving across the country while trying to see everything along the way will not be a very relaxing trip and you will not really experience these places if you dont spend some time at each.