living in philly
 

Hi all my husband and I might be relocating to philly or chicago. We are going to philly over labor day to check things out and for a few interviews. We have never been to philly and we are considering moving there. I am from chicago and I have been wanting to go back to chi-town but this new opportunity has come up. I know what chi is like and i am comfortable with it but I am a little curious about philly.

I just want to know what neighborhoods around philly are good to live in. We are a couple, no children, like to go out to eat, see movies, take walks. What I like about Chicago is the diversity, the food, and all the things the city has to offer, like sporting events, millenium park, navy pier, pizza, and many other great restaurnats and jobs, even the people are down to earth and easy to get along with.

Does Philly offer the same? Are there a lot of different restaurants to choose from, are the communities diverse? How is the quality of living? What neighborhoods are safe, clean and offer a lot to a couple in the late 20's? I am going to be a teacher and later get into sports management, any suggestions in that aspect as well?

I have read a few posts regarding chicago versus philly and everyone has their opinion. Some people have said that people that live in the Philadelphia area are rude and sarcastic. Currently I live on the west coast and some of the people here are rude, obnoxious and think they are better than the rest of the world. I have also heard that Philadelphia is unsafe, boring, old, and not as hip as Chicago. Its a hard decision because my family is in Chicago although Philly is not too far. I love the city of chicago but I have seen that there are many that enjoy Philly as well... Confused!!!

More info about us, we like to travel a lot and since half of our family lives in Italy we travel there often. I know traveling from chicago is pretty easy and probably from philly as well.!
We like to be in an environment that appreciates hard working people as well as a homey feel.

Philadelphia is a city of neighborhoods, each with its own identity to a large degree (although probably not quite as much now as before.) Which area would work best for you depends on so many factors, but one of my favorite areas for diversity is Mt. Airy; I love Center City (the downtown area) for many, many reasons, but it can be a tad expensive; South Philadelphia still has red-gravy restaurants on the corners.

There's a wonderful restaurant choice here, but the local food is very good too; we take our grub seriously, from the vendor carts up to Le Bec Fin. There are a lot of neighborhood pizza places (albeit it's not usually Chicago style!) and of course there's also the Reading Terminal Market and other spots for getting your own fresh ingredients if you want to cook...not to mention you can get the Pennsylvania Dutch food there.

The Philadelphia Museum of Art, the U of P Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, and the Academy of Natural Sciences are three of my favorite museums off the top of my head; there are a number of other, rather more esoteric spots, like both a Mummer (stringband music and plumes!) and Mutter (preserved Presidential medical problems!) Museum. One of my favorite things is the architecture, from colonial to "just yesterday".

As for the people: hi! come on down! I'd venture to say that there may be some people who have encountered what seems to be rudeness here: the Philadedphia accent in its pristine form is one that isn't exactly melodious, and can come across as having "addytood", but I've found many lovely helpful people as well. The "big city" rush is somewhat apparent here, but I'd say it's much more laid back than New York, for instance, and very much a blue-collar working class city in most ways.

www.gophila.com has some great info on sights and sites; it's a very very walkable city, and the public transportation system is decent, though of course everybody likes to complain about it. In fact, I do just fine without a car.

This is just a wee bitty beginning--I love my city and could go on for a long time about it--but hopefully this gives you a bit of a start. Enjoy your visit!

I can't help you too much since I live about 1 1/2 hours outside Philly, but I just wanted to say, one of the best things about Philly (that you can't get in most other cities) is that it is within 3 hours of several other citites. NYC is less than 3 hours away, Baltimore is less than 2, and DC is about 2 hours away. Plus you can be in rural farmlands to relax and get away from the city life in less than an hour. If you need a flight to Italy, you have lots of options...you could fly out of Philly, one of the NY airports or one of the Balt/DC airports. It can save you loads of money on airfare having that many choices of home airports.

Also, what is your cost of living looking like? There are so many areas in and around Philly with so many different housing costs. Are you looking to rent or buy? Do you want to be in the city or in the suburbs?

There are tons of different restaurants there, most of them very diverse. Take a look at the restaurant reviews on TripAdvisor. As for being unsafe, well all cities have areas that are unsafe and dirty, Chicago included. All citites also have some people who are rude and some who are nice. Overall, I wouldn't say people from Philly are any ruder than in any other city. But then again I grew up on the East Coast, maybe I'm just used to the sarcasm. :)

Have fun on your visit...I hope you like Philly and all that it has to offer!

Having lived in both, although at very different times in my life, I'd say there are a lot of similarities between the two cities, especially the neighborhood-ishness of how people think about them. Of all the East Coast cities, Philly is the one most overlooked and yet it has so much to offer, from sports to arts and music and theater, to restaurants to some really nice suburban areas to live.

What I like about Phila better than Chicago includes the weather (once you get used to the humidity in the summer) and the proximity to the other great cities in the East, without having to live in any of them.

I'd ignore comparisons about "how the people are." Depends entirely on what people you're with and how you are!

Question: Are you hoping to live within city limits or are you up for suburbs with good access to downtown (Phila's commuter system is almost as good as Chicago's, although the mass transity downtown isn't as good, but then it's a slightly smaller city).

Over the years, I've lived all over Philly, from Chestnut Hill to 5th and South. The vibe from one neighborhood can be very different from the next.
But the place that I most enjoyed, first as a single and later with my husband, was the Rittenhouse Square area. Many beautiful homes and apartments, tree lined streets, lots of good restaurants, cafes and shops nearby (shops are more on the high end side, but places to eat range from quite cheap to very expensive) plus two lovely squares...Rittenhouse Square and Fitler Square. We lived on the 2100 block of Spruce Street, an address I'd gladly have again. Far and away our favorite Philly neighborhood.

Next choice would be Clinton Street, just off Pine Street's Antiques Row. Again, good apartment/condo choices, tree-lined, quiet but an easy walk to everything. In my salad days, I spent a year living on Clinton Street at Cole's House (a women-only building that housed both long term residents and short termers, like female members of the the chorus from visiting opera companies and the corps of touring ballet companies). Cole's House has since closed and was remodeled into an upscale condo development.

Third choice would be Chestnut Hill, for a country feel in the city...with good shops and some interesting restaurants and of course, the famous Valley Green. Manayunk is another popular area, but way too crowded on week-ends with suburbanites for our taste (ditto for the bars and restaurants in Old City).

By the way, when you start looking, be a bit skeptical of how realtors sell neighborhoods to out of town newcomers. For example, they will push Mount Airy or Flourtown as "Chestnut Hill area" or streets on the "other" side of Lombard as "Rittenhouse Square area." Both descriptions are misleading. You'll be well served to learn the boundaries of the various neighborhoods.

FYI, for a VERY general comparison, Rittenhouse Square is similar to the "Gold Coast" neighborhood of Chicago. However, except on the square itself, it doesn't have as many large apartment buildings--it's more greystones (like brownstones) or brick buildings that are three to five stories high.

This isn't meant to offend you, but the best advice anyone can give you is to forget about the generalizations and stereotypes, whether it be for cities or regions or ethnic groups or whatever. Fun is where you find it, or make it, and people are individuals, wherever they live.

A bit of a PS: if you'd like to see some preview pictures, go to http://community.webshots.com/user/missalg and go down to the "One Day in Philadelphia" album. It's from one day when I played hooky from apring cleaning and went down to the Parkway area instead!

I really like Philly, especially old city. I enjoy the music, theatre, and food a great deal. Also the easy Amtrak access to NYC and DC.

That being said, Philly is a good city and Chicago is a great city. Chicago offers and endless variety of actiivity, a much more vibrant nightlife and no neighborhood in Philly offers as much as the neighborhoods on Chicago's North Side.

Again, I am not hating on Phily, I love so much about it, but it can't compare to Chicago.

Basically we will be looking to rent at first but eventually we will want to buy something in the 200-250 range. My husband will be working in the northern part of Philly and I have some opportunities near Randon. So a neighborhood inbetween the two would be good.
I would like to live close to the city, not necessairly downtown or in the center but close to things to do.
I heard that south Philadelphia is a little bit rough.
Someone also mentioned living in New Jersey because it is cheaper....
I also have another question. Are there any outdoor activities to do, like white water rafting, or hiking?
About the people, I guess that is not a major concern for me because Chicagoans have somewhat of an accent and to some people it comes off rude!!
The thing that sounds good to me about philly is that it has been stated that it is a walkable city.
Thanks for the info, I am looking forward to coming to Philly to check it out.
I guess my biggest hang up is that i am from Chicago, I am a fan of the bulls, bears, and sox. It has been hard for me to break away from who I am and the city that made me who I am, ya know? I compare everything to Chicago because its my sweet home, Chicago!!

BTW Amy, great pictures!

travelin- there is no white water rafting - but some in the Poconos - about 1.5 hours away.

There is a large urban park called Fairmount Park in Phila. One section has an 8 mile loop around the river that is perfect for rollerblading, biking, running, etc. It is really the best place for rollerblading I've ever seen.

A bit farther - in the NW section is a part of the park called Valley Green. It parallels the Wissahickon Creek - there are trails on either side of the creek where you don't cross a single road for 5 miles. You feel miles away from the city and the hiking is nice - not spectacular like the western national parks, but pretty wooded walks. The park has some great and challenging mountain bike trails - or you could stay on the other, flatter side and just ride the 5 mile path. It truly is a wonderful resource in such a large city.

It is hard to be a sports fan in Phila! But we keep hoping...

Do consider that in Phila. you are a mere door to door 2 SHORT HOURS from NYC, 3 hours from DC, 5 hours from Boston, 6.5 hours from Cape Cod, etc.

travelinfool-

I have lived in Philly for 6 years in the late 1990s - early 2000s. I rented an apt in a high-rise building in Center City, about 3 blocks from Rittenhouse Sq. Even though I had a car, I can get to most part of CC on foot. Walking to restauarnts/clubs is not an issue, or catching a cab only costs a few bucks.

Philly has cleaned up a lot during the late 1990s, and I feel pretty safe during my time there (I was in my late 20s, female).

It's got many great restaurants, has a fabulous orchestra with brand new symphony hall, an opera company, great art museums, and decent sport teams. Also lots of scenic places to visit within 1-2 hours drive. Plus, it's only about 1.5 hour from NYC!

I really enjoyed my time there, and wouldn't recommend you guys living anywhere else except Center City.

The apt building I lived in is 1 block from the Kimmel Center (symphony hall). I used to go there to line up for rush tickets ($10, best avail seat) at 5ish. Then back to my apt for a nap, and dinner. I would leave my apt at 7:45pm and get to my seat in the symphony hall by 7:50pm. When the concert ends, I'm back home in my apt before the other folks even get out of the parking lot in their cars!!!

If I were you I would move to Seattle, Pheonix or Austin. Job growth is better and the cost of living is lower.

Philadelphia has VERY high crime and racial problem. It is extremely dangerous to even drive through certain neighborhoods.

You have to drive all the way to the KOP Mall if you want to shop because the shopping in CC is pathetic. (I will never forget the day Nan Duskin closed.)

I live in Manayunk, a suburb of Philly. Manayunk is often described as "funky." Lots of restaurants and shops here on Main St. (One of my neighbors was just arrested for drug dealing--well, he actually lives in Andorra.)

Thankfully, I own a Holland & Holland rifle which I keep by my front door. I can shoot straight as long as I have been drinking.

The Great and Powerful Thingorjus

We thought about Seattle and we were there a few times. I liked the city and we had some decent offers but I really dont like living on the west coast. Its too far away from my family and one entire day is wasted traveling to see them with the length of the flight and the time difference. Also to travel to Europe is a pain in the ass, maybe not so much from Seattle but this last time we had 4 different stops and it literally made me sick!
I have heard that crime is a major issue in Philly thats why I made this post.
Since I know Chicago better, I know the neighborhoods to stay away from so moving to Chicago would be a breeze, but if for some reason we decide or have to move to Philly I wanted to know waht to expect.

I think if you live around Rittenhouse Sq in Philadelphia, you'd be very safe. Before I moved to Philly, I was living in Brookline, MA, which is an extremely safe neighborhood. For the first several months in Philly, I felt unsafe and uncomfortable. However, after I got to know the city better and know what sections of the city are safe, I felt much better and much safer.

I really think that with you 2 being still young w/o children; you're well-suited to living in Center City Philadelphia. It's got everything you're looking for.

Well, of course Rittenhouse Sq. is safe as it is probably the most expensive place to live in CC. I work in the area (for America's oldest auction house). My friends (a gay couple) live a few blocks down from Rittenhouse, on Walnut/20, and they pay $1100 for a studio. No heat/hot water included. Their entire apt. is the size of my garage.

The suburbs are safe and more affordable. Take a look at West Norriton or Conshahocken or Norristown or Manayunk. You are just a short drive to CC via the Skuylkill Expressway.

MM, well I certainly can't argue that KOP is the place to shop in the area.
Has Asta de Blue decamped from CC as well? They were my favorite shop...and right around the corner!
We were spectacularly lucky with our last Philly apt...a 2 bed den/3 bath, 1700+ sf floor through unit (central air, fp, hw floors, eat-in kitchen, 8 closets including two walk-ins) on the second floor of a handsome greystone on the 2100 block of Spruce St. We paid $1600/month plus uts. The greystone has since been sold and they've upgraded the whole thing, oriental carpets and chandeliers in the "public" hallways and our apartment is now the owner's residence. The building also came with a 2 car garage and a private garden (and four additional 1 bed apartments), now used solely by the owners. The owners bought it in 2000 for $550k, which even then we thought was a steal.

Hi travelin,

Please note that while marginal_margiela says Philly is crime-ridden and suggests Seattle instead, she obviously chooses to stay close to Philly. The closer you are to Center City, the safer you'll feel -- but Philly is a big city, so "close" is a relative term. My favorite area is the vicinity south of Vine Street and East of 25th Street. If Rittenhouse Square isn't in your budget, you can find reasonable housing a half-mile or so south (such as Bainbridge Street close to the waterfront). Still very convenient, but less of a premium on rentals.

The most dangerous areas are generally in North Philly and West Philly. Attitude is relative. Since you're from a city, it might not bother you at all. The sacrcasm here isn't usually mean-spirited, if that helps :)

As for being boring and unhip, there are a lot of great restaurants, great lounges, good shopping, martini bars, tapas bars, dive bars, and so on. I still haven't run out of things to do there. But I think people here are less self-abosrbed than in other cities. There's a neighborly vibe.

Hope that helps!

Phila. also has MANY wonderful suburbs. You can avoid paying the city wage tax that way!!
King of Prussia has some of the lowest property taxes around.

"King of Prussia has some of the lowest property taxes around."

But of course, then you are stuck in suburban King of Prussia which is like any suburb in America. My sense is the OP was looking for something more urban and cool. Someplace like Manayunk would be a compromise.

Having lived and worked in both (CC 15 years, Loop/ Old Town 3 years) the biggest differences I noted were weather related.

Chicago is so much colder than Philly. You get an extra month of Fall and on the other end an extra month of Spring in Philly. And the transitions between the seasons is gentler on the East Coast. I spend a lot of time outdoors, and I find living in Chicago simply brutal in the winter.

Philly does have a wage tax if you work or live in the city, so you cannot escape it by living in the suburbs if you work in Philly.

The 9% sales tax in Chicago is a real drag – one of the highest in the nation. And its on everything. In Philly there is generally no tax on food or clothing or medicines.

Lots of restaurants in both locations. And I would relate both similar in diversity.

BTW, airfare between the two cities is pretty cheap. You can almost always get a fare for under $200.

Thanks for the info,
Yes Chicago weather is really harsh, both summer and winter and it seems like there is no inbetween. Summers are so humid and winters are bitter cold.
Didnt PA have a really bad snow storm this past winter?
Also, can you tell me a little about the wage tax? What is it?

We had very little snow in Phila this past winter. The wage tax for 2007 is 4.301% for residents and 3.7716% for non-residents working in the city.

The winters here have bee quite mild. We didn't even use our snow blower last year. We live in the Suburbs about 25 minutes from CC. We like to go into the city for plays concerts, there is a diverse community, and the arts are very good in philly. Great museums, if that type of thing interests you and PHL is not at a loss for great restaurants. I think all cities have a crime rate.

The only time people are rude is when the Eagles loose. That is quite often I am sorry to say. I have family in JAX where the superbowl was played in the past. The Floridians there were happy to see the Eagles fans board the plane!! You must also remember you can go to the beach here. You will not be more an 1 hour or so to some of the best Joisey (Jersey) beaches. Cape May a little farther. You won't have that in Chicago. There are may Italian restaurants which also feature BYOB. You also will never have cheesesteak like the ones in PHL on South Street. When you visit be sure and have one. Walk around Society Hill area, that is nice. I think you would be happy here in Pa. I would give it a try. If you leave the city you can head for the poconos where it is country you are only 45 monutes or so to New Hope and Bucks county which has some of the most beautiful scenery. B&B's and old fashion playhouse, and quaint shops. You would not be bored here. C"mon down!!

Maybe we EVEN can convert you to an Eagles fan.

Does anyone else think it's going to be hard to find something nice for $200k-$250k in Phila.? That sounds really low to me. And where's "Randon"?

Anyway, I've visited Chicago a lot and like it, but I think you'd like Philly, particularly its location: 2 hours to the beach, two hours to NYC or Wash., 2 hours to the mountains.

I's suggest you look at South Philly -- but just be careful about which area you choose. The area from the stadium and north on Broad for several blocks is nice and affordable. Manayunk is a possibility. Rittnhse Sq is nice but expensive. South Jersey's not my cup of tea, but to each his own. As far as crime goes, most of the it takes place in neighborhoods you'll never come near.

By and large, winters are mild in Phila. If you're looking for a teaching job, you can walk into a position in Philadelphia, but getting into a suburban district will be tougher.

Radnor is the town I might have some opportunities. Thanks for all the input. Also, does Philly have a large Italian population? Or a Hungarian population? I know many settled on the east coast and stayed but I was wondering if there were still many today. Chicago has a very large Italian and Hungarian population which is also very comforting. (like to stay true to my roots) My husband is 100% born and raised in Italy and my grandparents came from Italy and my other grandparents came from Hungry. Where we live now, not too much diversity and not one Italian or Hungarian!

You won't be able to touch Radnor for $200-$250k. Housing has gone up a lot in the suburbs over the past few years.

South Phila. has a huge Italian population.

Don't think you can touch Chicago for $200-250K either, nor any place at all on the Pacific Coast. Where are you coming from, and are you prepared to go up a far amount in order to buy? If you rent for a year, you'll get a much better idea of all this, of course.

In Chicago there are condos going for 200-250 right now in various places throughout the city.

My husband is Hungarian and we many friends who are hungarian. There are many on the East coast scattered around. I cannot say in Philly where they are all living. Italian very large Italian popularity with many great italian restaurants. There is or was a large Hungarian population in or arouond news brunswick N.J that is where my husbnd first settled when his parents came here from Hungary. We live in the suburbs of PHL.

thanks for the info, are there any farmers markets or delis in Philly as well?

Because your family is mostly in Chicago, I would bet dollars to donuts that you will end up there eventually ~ like if you have children later or as your parents age.

Now that your are in your 20s, you are so young, this is the time to explore! Go live in Philly, go live Seattle, go crazy and spend a year in Italy. Just do it. Chicago will be waiting for you when you are done exploring the world.

OF course there are farmer markets and deli's. As said before the beauty of PHL is you are close to so many other activites you can explore. D.C N.Y, Lancastor where the amish live, beautiful country as well. Baltimore, the inner harbor. You would have a lot to explore here in addition to philly that you would not get elsewhere, or Chicago. I would give it a try, espcially since you are so young. What is the worst thing that can happen???? You don't like it and you return to Chicago. Simple as that. It is a totally reversable decision. Once you have children it is not as easy to explore as it is now.

You can get a one-bedroom condo in Old City/Center City for $200K.

Reading Terminal Market is probably the most popular market. You can also take the speedline (PATCO) into Haddon field or Collingswood for their weekend farmer's markets.

I'm a big Reading market fan. http://www.readingterminalmarket.org/

As for delis? Everywhere. But the best "sandwich" food you'll find is the "cheesesteak hoagie," which isn't exactly kosher.

The Italian Market in South Philly is great as well. It's just about perfect to go down there on a Saturday morning and have a great cup of coffee sitting outside, shop for fruits and veggies, meat and seafood, then get some great cheese at DiBruno's.

Also, this might be an unpopular suggestion, but you could buy in Northeast Philly which still has many safe neighborhoods. The real estate prices are reasonable, and there is mass transit readily available.

Along Suki's suggestion, upper Roxborough can be very affordable and very safe. It's certainly not a "hot" neighborhood, but it is very convenient to commuting downtown.

We bought our first house there. It certainly wasn't awe-inspiring, but the location was great and the price fit our budget at the time. My husband and I both worked in center city and had no kids at the time, so we didnt' want a longer commute from the more expensive suburbs. We moved before our kids started school.

I miss the close access to Valley Green and Kelly Drive.

You can dind a home in the King of Prussia area for your price and it's close to Radnor and a 30 minute frive into center city.