Kauai Helicopter Crash
 

There has been another tour helicopter crash, this time on Kauai with five aboard.

Based on the frequency of tour helicopter crashes in Hawaii it should be obvious to everyone that this is not a safe activity.

http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news...10/detail.html

Helicopters are ten times more likely to crash than fixed-wing aircraft. I found this out from researching the NASA websites. People do not think bad things happen in a place like Hawaii but they do!

Thanks Rusty, I tried most of the day trying to find out details of this. I am so sorry that this happened to people who were on a pleasure trip. It is totally beyond my comprehension.

As of right now, the bodies and the wreckage have not been recovered. It appears that the helicopter flew into a steep mountain rigde, making it very dangerous for rescue/recovery people. They will be attempting to recover the craft and bodies tomorrow(092704)

Back in 1985 I was driving up Haleakala (sp?) in Maui and a tourist helicopter crashed as we made the drive up. I remember all of the emergency vehicles going past us, and the mood on the mountain that day. We learned later that a man on his honeymoon was killed, but his wife survived. For the rest of our trip I felt so sad for his wife. It was so unfair.

Rusty,
How frequent are the helecopter crashs in Hawaii? I went to the National Safety Board Website and I'm not sure that I was finding all of the information. I'm just curious as I'm sure that you hear about these things when you live on the islands. They don't make national news, although they should!

Recent fatal air-tour crashes in Hawai:

? July 23, 2003: A Jack Harter Helicopters Bell 206B crashes at Mount Wai'ale'ale, Kaua'i, killing five.

? June 15, 2003: Three tourists and a pilot are killed when a Tropical Helicopters Hughes 500 crashes in Hawai'i Volcanoes National Park on the Big Island. The cause remains under investigation.

? Aug. 25, 2000: A Big Island Air Piper Chieftain plane ditches in the ocean off Hilo. The pilot and seven passengers survive, one passenger dies. The NTSB cites loss of engine power and an engine fire.

? July 21, 2000: A Blue Hawaiian Tours helicopter crashes in '?ao Valley on Maui, killing seven. The NTSB cites pilot error for flying into cloudy weather.

? Sept. 25, 1999: A Big Island Air Piper Chieftain plane crashes on the slopes of Mauna Loa on the Big Island, killing all 10 aboard. The NTSB cites pilot error for flying into bad weather, improper navigation and disregard for standard operating procedures.

? June 25, 1998: A Eurocopter aircraft operated by 'Ohana Helicopters smashes into a mountainside at Mount Wai'ale'ale, Kaua'i, killing six. The NTSB cites pilot error for flying into bad weather.

? July 14, 1994: A Papillon Helicopters Aerospatiale Astar crashes into the ocean off Kaua'i's Na Pali Coast, killing three of seven people aboard. The NTSB cites engine failure.

? April 18, 1994: An Interisland Helicopters craft crashes near Hanapepe Valley on Kaua'i, killing one and injuring four. The NTSB cites engine failure.

? Jan. 25, 1993: A Kainoa Aviation Hilleer 1100 helicopter plunges into the ocean off Hawai'i Volcanoes National Park on the Big Island. The pilot survives but four passengers are killed. The NTSB cites loss of tail rotor control.

? Sept. 16, 1992: A Hawai'i Helicopters Aerospatiale Astar slams into the southern slope of Haleakala on Maui, killing seven. The NTSB cites pilot error for flying into bad weather.

? April 22, 1992: All nine aboard a Scenic Air Tours Beech E18S plane die in a crash near Haleakala Crater. The NTSB cites pilot error for flying into bad weather.

This is sad a terrible news. We took a helicopter tour of Kaui in 2001. It was the scariest thing I have ever done. It was raining, of course, and sometimes we just couldn't see a thing. I kept telling myself that the pilot was probably sooooo used to this. Never again.

1tiredmama,
I agree with you! I went on a helicopter flight in Kauai last January and it was raining over the canyon...I couldn't see a thing and was just waiting for the crash...really, I was exremely scared! I don't know how those pilots can tell if there is anything they are about to crash into.

We went in 2003. It wasn't raining and the views were spectacular. But I was still pretty scared. When I say it was a once in a lifetime experience, I mean ONCE! We were there just last week, and every time I saw a helicopter fly over, I thought to myself, I'm glad I'm down here and not up there.

We met a honeymooning couple who were planning to do the doors-off, waterfall landing heli tour and when I saw this story, I got serious goosebumps. Our hearts go out to the families of the passengers and pilot.

I can empathize with the once in a lifetime statement...mine was over the Grand Canyon, and I vowed after getting off that would be the last time. So, after that came a Hawaii trip, and believe it or not, and while on Maui, my husband was determined he needed to do the ride while in Hawaii (must be the once in a lifetime thing), so we each went our separate ways--he went on the heli to Molokai, and I went snorkeling to Molokini instead. It was an eery feeling all day while snorkeling wondering about his trip....I don't know that he is ready for the venture again though if given the chance.

As sad as this was, the fact is, if you want to worry about something, worry about dying in your car on your drive to the hotel. The odds of that are still astronomically high compared to a helicopter crash.

It is still a very safe activity and I would recommand it to anyone visiting the islands.

I've made this observation before on other posts about Hawaii helicopter tours, and I'll acknowledge from the outset that I can't vouch for its accuracy, but it makes sense to me: I was told by a tour guide on the Big Island that helicopter tours over the volcano are not safe. He didn't comment on other destinations. He explained that the volcanic gases interfere with the internal combustion engine on the helicopter and can cause it to fail. He showed us numerous helicopter "burns" on the Saddle Road where he said there had been crashes, some of them quite recent. By far, most of them are not fatal but they are scary and potentially dangerous.

My wife and I did the waterfall landing flight with no doors 2 years ago. It was a thrilling experience I'll never forget. I knew there was a risk, but wasn't afraid at all. It was a once in a lifetime experience. I would definately do it again. If you consider the 100's of flights, the crash rate is probably less than 1/10th of one percent...then again I guess that is not too good. Regardless my heart goes out to those people and their families. God bless them.

Not that one person's life is more valuable than another, but I think it depends on your circumstances if the risk is something worth taking. My husband is a small plane pilot that hasn't flown since our daughter was born. The heli is dangerous because of how the winds swirl around those sharp mountains. They switch in an instant. And the quick rain storms and fog. He's wanting to take lessons though. The worst is when you hear half the family went and half waited at the shop.

This was very sad and scary to read about. We just took this same tour with the same heli company almost a month ago. My thoughts are out to those lost in the crash and their families.

Regarding safety, I was definitely skiddish before going on the tour, but because everyone said how amazing the experience would be, we decided that with approx. 10 tour companies a day, each making maybe 7+ tours a day, every day of the year on Kauai...we felt that in comparison to the number of crashes wasn't really any more dangerous for us than driving in a car or getting on board a plane. I'm not saying that as a fact, just that we don't want to live our lives missing out on something spectacular because of what might happen. We had an amazing time on our flight, no rain, beautiful sites and felt safe while in the air. Someone at my place of work just lost their husband in a car accident, it seems sometimes that life & death are the luck of the draw. That said, though, I loved the experience...I'm glad that I've "been there,done that" so when I go back, I won't have to do it again.

Crash Stats:

Does anyone have stats on number of flights/passengers, and on crash/deaths?


Rusty, you seem very knowledgeable about the subject, do you have any?
I was planning on taking a tour next spring, but these postings are pretty scary.

but what a way to go!
d

It is not true that helicopter tours are not a safe activity. There are hundreds of thousands of helicopter tour passengers that fly each year that have safe experiences. True, there are tragic accidents and lives have been lost.

Compare the numbers of lives lost swimming in the oceans and streams in hawaii and driving on the roads and highways. If we all stopped doing things that had risks we would all have to stay at home and do nothing. But that has risks too.

I would like to know where the information is available on the NASA website that says that helicopters are ten times more likely to crash than airplanes. Please post the like so
I can go there.

Let's not turn this into some debate.
Helo tours are great fun. Exciting, and more. As long as people are aware of the dangers beforehand, there's nothing wrong with flying.
The difference is that a fixed-wing aircraft has a better chance of producing survivors - - as a helicopter has all the aerodynamic characteristics of a brick once there is a rotor failure.
Tragedies occur worldwide. Not just in "paradise".

I have bene told that Air Kauai has the best safety record in hawaii. I was told if the weather is the slightest bit unfavorable they do not fly. Has any heard this about the company.

Not sure if that's true...but it's always been the only helitour company I recommend here on Kaua`i.

Small planes don't just fall straight down like helicopters do when something goes wrong.

I am glad that we did not take the heli. tour while in Kauai...was going to next visit not now..

Rusty: I thought, in the year I've been a regular on this site that I remembered two other crashes occuring...none on your list for '04? :-? Belle.

This is an interesting thread to me, because as a private pilot, I often get questioned how safe it is, and if I'm scared, and do I think I'm putting myself & family through unneccesary risks. My attitude is in line with those who do not believe in living life based in "What-ifs." At the same time, I don't live life "Carelessly," but try and make educated decisions and take calculated risks (i.e. cost-benefit analysis). Before I was a pilot, I was a flight attendant for a small regional airline, and I was based at LAX. Through statistics and personal experience I do believe it is worse to get in your car. Many days came and went at LAX (one of the busiest air spaces in the world) without a hitch, but when I got on the freeways of LA, there were ALWAYS car accidents daily. Even now, I live on the central California coast, in a rural area, and car crashes are common. Additionally, I know, in most cases a small plane (I fly a Cessna 172, one of the most common sight-seeing airplanes) will have a much better chance of gliding down in an emergency. I know people who have survived such incidents. I DO also know a former army helicopter pilot who DID survive a helicopter crash, but he did say the thing dropped like a ROCK, and it was ruined. Additionally, even in fair weather, flying low over mountainous terrain can be very dangerous because of dangerous downdrafts. Its the risk you take to get that close-up view. Here's an old pilot saying: "Altitude is your friend." That said, I've booked an island tour with "Wings Over Kauai," flying out of Lihue in a Cessna 172 for our family vacation in a couple of weeks. I'll let y'all know how it was!

And if we don't hear from you .........???

We took a helicopter tour on our trip in April. I can't remember the name of the company but they are the one that flies w/o any doors. It was the highlight of the trip for my wife. I thought it was very cool as well but it takes alot more to impress me. The views are unbelievable.

My family and I flew w/ Air Kauai last week..a typical 1 hour tour of the island/ Na Pali coast, etc. I must admit I was slightly apprenhensive at first due to alot of cloud cover. After talking w/ Sam in their office he assured me that it's a daily concern w/ tourists..but that they almost always fly under the cloud ceilings. After all Kauai does have the wettest spot on earth..this is what the pilots are used to. We had a GREAT flight..w/alot of very clear and sunny openings as we stayed below the clouds in the mountainous areas. I've flown other helicopter tours..this one was the smoothest, calmest, most scenic one ever, and of all the islands, if you don't see Kauai by air then what island are you waiting for?..I quit counting waterfalls at around 75. Air Kauai has an excellent safety record (as do most of the other tour companies) and you will never reqret the experience..even w/ the remote chance of a difficulty..that's life.

As a resident of the north shore of Kaua`i, I can tell you that one big advantage of helitours over the airplane, is that the helicopters are allowed to get further into the canyons and fly closer to the interior cliffs (and waterfalls!), than the tour plane.

Not sure if this is because of FAA rules & regulations, or just due to the difference in manuverability between the two aircraft...?

I would say it's the nature of the machine~helicopters were designed to maneuver into tight places. With either aircraft the closer you get to the ground the more risk due to up and downdrafts (created by wind blowing over terrain and thermal activity, i.e. rising and falling of air). It's USUALLY not a problem, however occasionally the downdrafts can be greater than the power of the aircraft. That's often what is the case when you hear about an aircraft crashing into terrain. It's not like pilots just fly into mountains. It's usually they are flying low (canyons are the riskiest), get caught in a strong downdraft and can't power out of it. The risk is greatest on very windy days and hot days. On those types of days, the pilot should maintain higher altitudes. On cool days with light or no winds, it is safer to fly lower.

Of course on ANY type of day, the higher you are, the better your chances of survival in the remote chance that something does go wrong (like a failed engine). It gives the pilot more time to trouble-shoot the problem and, if necessary, to maneuver to a emergency landing site. If that's the case, small airplanes probably win, as they usually glide quite well. The decision to get low & up-close is a trade-off with safety. The risk is different on each flight, the factors being the condition and power of the aircraft, the skill of the pilot, and the weather conditions. I would always say go with the best equipment and pilots, and don't make price a factor. You're already splurging with the cheapest heli ride, so don't let a small difference in price keep you from getting the best and minimizing your risk.

We're flying in an airplane this trip, and we plan to do a helicopter ride on the next Kauai trip. Obviously the helicopter trip will be more dramatic, so I don't want to do that FIRST! The airplane we're flying in, a Cessna 172, I'm very familiar with (since I fly one myself). It is a high wing plane that is excellent for sight seeing, capable of flying low & slow.....great for photography! Only FOUR more days.....can't wait!!!

My heart goes out to the people in the crash.
BUT The tour companies always tell people the dangers before they get in the helicopter My husband and I went on a heli tour last month in Kauai and it was an amazing experience! I would do it again. The pilots are used to flying in many conditions. We had a great time and the scenery we saw was unbelieveable. If it is your time to die why not let it be doing something exciting and not wrapped in cotton wool afraid of everything in life. I don't mean this too harsh, but we shouldn't be afraid to live our life(of course with some caution). Only my thoughts.

SusanMac:

I disagree with your statement that the helicopter companies tell the passengers about the dangers of the helicopter rides in Hawaii.

We have taken helicopter rides in Kauai and the Big Island in the last few years and enjoyed them a lot.

Neither company told us anything about crashes or fatalities.

I'm not here to knock these rides. In fact, we may take one this summer.

But I don't think that most people who take these helicopter rides have any idea about safety issues or safety statistics.

Just MHO

I took a flight with Air Kauai last summer and it was great. It is the best way to see the island. I would do it again if it didn’t cost 300 bucks. I work in a helicopter for a living and there are defiantly risks involved when you fly any type of aircraft. I never felt in harms way for a minute on this tour. Highly recommended. Great views of the Na’pali coast!

Given the number of helicopter tours that depart everyday in Hawaii, the number of accidents is minimal. Rusty listed all the crashes that included 57 fatalities over the past 13 years in Hawaii. According to the NHTSA there were 532 highway fatalities and over 27,000 people injured in the state of Hawaii just between 2000-2003.

If you try hard enough you can make people scared to do anything. I say if you have an extra $300, enjoy the ride.

I know that this is not a contest, but we just had 2 copter crashes in the East River in NYC last week.

How about the motorized hang-gliding offered by Birds in Paradise? I'd never do a heli tour, but this thing sounds a bit safer and a lot more interesting and fun. Anyone have an opinion or experience to share? DH thinks I'm nuts to want to do this, but HE's the one who jumped out of an airplane...

moondoggie: I topped my previous message regarding the trike rides for you. Entitled : "Hang Glide Maui?".

Look for it if you want some opinions about that! Belle

"Wings Over Kauai" was awesome, and the price was right on! The airplane is a Cessna 172, a high-wing, single-engine airplane. The model airplane is great for sightseeing, and has an excellent safety record. "Wings Over Kauai" is a family-run operation, and they are VERY friendly and personable. Bruce, the pilot, does a wonderful job flying and narrating. He is open to personalizing your route to fly over what interests you the most. I would highly recommend "Wings Over Kauai" (airplane "Flightseeing).

http://wingsoverkauai.com/

I recently returned from Hawaii and took two helicopter tours over Kauai. One with Island Helicopters in an A-Star and another with InterIsland in a Hughes 500. Both were awesome. The pilots were highly trained and knew what they were doing. Sure, there is always a risk but it is extremely low. For instance, you can get killed while walking down the road as one local did while I was in Maui (Lahaina). The best time to take a tour over Kauai is in summer as there is less rain. I have taken tours both in January and July. The one in January 2004 was almost cancelled due to weather.

The pilots of every helicopter that crashed were also "hughly trained" and they also "knew what they were doing". But that is little consolation to the families of those who died in the crashes.

You can get killed walking down the road and you can also get killed while asleep in your own bed. But flying on a tour helicopter is a statistically unsafe activity.