Peterboy not sure where you got the impression that I'm going out of my way just to see The 4 Corners. I'm going to see Mesa Verde and on my way back to the Grand Canyon, I pass through it...well at least according to Google Maps.

Bachslunch - thank you!! It's nice to read a post like yours where someone gets you. We all have different travel goals and styles and we're all not going to agree with them. The folks on the this forum are much more understanding, helpful and friendly than some others.

To be honest, I am humming and hawing about going to Mesa Verde because it is out of the way and the short amount of time I have, but I have to be honest and say that the likelihood of me coming back in this region is slim and I want to take advantage of seeing it since I'm so close by -- in fact this is my first real trip travelling in the US and I have travelled all of the world! I'm both excited and nervous!

Thanks again to everyone!

If you do cut out Mesa Verde, you could visit Monument Valley instead. And if you do that, you could also visit the ruins at Betatakin.

http://www.nps.gov/nava/index.htm

Next to Mesa Verde and Chaco Canyon, this is the most outstanding Anasazi dwelling I have ever visited. If you go, make sure you take the guided tour or it's not really worth the stop.

Monument Valley and Navajo National Monument are much closer to Page and the Grand Canyon than is Mesa Verde. Perhaps some time you will get back and focus more on Colorado and then you could visit Mesa Verde and, maybe the Moab area too with Canyonlands and Arches National Parks.

You are right Oceania, you'll be going right past 4 Corners so a brief stop would be easy.

I hope you don't decide to skip Mesa Verde. It will give you a glimpse into the long human history of the southwest. Before travelling to the area as an adult, I was under the impression that there were a few ruins to see in places like Mesa Verde (which I visited in my youth). Through my more recent southwestern adventures I've realized just how extensive the reach of the Anazazi and other Native American cultures is in the region. There are ruins, pictographs and petroglyphs everywhere throughout the region. Since Chaco Canyon (the hub of the Anasazi culture) is a little off your radar then a trip to Mesa Verde will be the next best thing. We visited Mesa Verde right before we visited Chaco Canyon and it was interesting to see the 'before' at Chaco when the culture was at it's peak and then the 'after' when the culture was gripped by the 'great fear' that drove them into the easily defended canyons of Mesa Verde. What caused all this and where all the remains are of all the people are is the great mystery of the southwest.

If this kind of thing interests you I'd suggest picking up a copy of 'Anasazi America' by David Stuart It is a readable yet concise overview of that mysterious lost culture.

Here's a link to an excellent site about Chaco Canyon...great videos and insight into the Anazasi culture:

http://www.exploratorium.edu/chaco/flash.html

Here's a link to some of my own Images of Mesa Verde and Chaco Canyon

http://www.pbase.com/peterb/co_and_nm_05&page=3

and a trip report from our last adventure to Utah

http://www.pbase.com/peterb/utah_tr

I hate to hear that his may be your only chance to visit the area. Perhaps this trip will draw you back for a more in depth visit. Either way you're going to love this trip!!

Where are you coming from?

Peterboy - you're the first person who has encouraged me to go to Mesa Verde!! The only reason why I was contemplating not going is because of all the negative feedback I previously got ....but I have now decided that I will be going!

I'm so glad you're going to MV! If it is at all possible try to stay at Farview Lodge inside Mesa Verde NP. I'm going from memeory but I think the drive into the park from Cortez is going to be an hour plus to the Visitor's Center and the ruins are beyond that. Spruce Tree House can be self toured but Cliff Palace and Balcony House (if you do only one, this would be it IMO) are ranger led and you must sign up ahead of time. If you get there before the VC closes, you could sign up for an earlier tour than if you arrive the next morning. The group size is limited so the tours do fill up. I'm not sure if they take phone reservation but that might be worth finding out.

Here's Far View's addy:

http://www.visitmesaverde.com/accomm...iew-lodge.aspx

and for the park:

http://www.nps.gov/meve/index.htm

Go to the maps and check ot the road from the park entrance to the visitor's center and you see why the drive is so long. Get stuck behind a slow-moving RV on that twisty road and you'll wish you'd done the drive the afternoon before.


We generally don't expect much from NP lodging and dining. The rooms at Farview are pretty basic but clean and most have great views. Try to get a room in the outer ring of roooms for the best views with the other unit behind you. The Metate Room was a pleasant surprise as well with probably the best food we've had in a NP restaurant.

Far View looks nice but unfortunately out of my budget. I do have a place already booked. I did check out the NPS site and it is about an hour into the actually ruins which I'm prepared for.

I was wondering if the road from the park entrance to the visitor centre is open before 8am (so I can get to the visitor centre right at 8am when it opens)...would you know? I'm assuming it must be because there's lodging and camping there. Anyways, I plan to leave Cortez at 7am the latest.

I was thinking of doing following (in the same order):
- Balcony House - 1 hour
- Cliff Palace - 1 hour
- Mesa Loop Trail - ??
- Chapin museum and Spurce Tree House - ??

Looks good..to get into Balcony House you'll need to go up this ladder

http://www.pbase.com/peterb/image/50016032

and crawl through a tight hole in a wall and up a rock face to get up and out of the ruin. It isn't really difficult but I didn't look down on the last stretch! This is your best chance for an intimate feel right inside a cliff dwelling. The museum is not large and has a nice collection of artifacts and Spruce Tree House gives you a chance to enter a kiva. Cliff Palace is large and impressive but you can only walk in front of it. If I had to choose, I'd sacrifice Cliff Palace first if availability is limited.

Also, when you are in the Monument Valley area make sure to turn on the radio in your car to hear the local broadcasts in the Dineh (Navajo) language. There are no Dineh words for 'certified public accountant' so it is an odd blend of the soft Dineh words interspersed with more jarring english words. It is a unique experience.

Thanks a million! So 5-6 hours should be sufficient for the park then? I hope to be in GCNP by sunset if possible, taht means leaving Mesa Verde by 2 or 3 (which is 6-7 hours actually)

What time you have will be sufficient for a good feel of the place especially if you do a guided tour or two. If you have never been to the area then even driving is enjoyable in such an unfamiliar landscape. The journey is the destination.

Another note regarding time. Although Arizona is in the Mountain Time Zone, it does NOT observe daylight savings time like the rest of the states in that time zone. That means that during the time you are visiting, Arizona & Nevada will have the same time, while in Colorado & Utah it will be an hour later.

I'm going to buck the trend here and vote for Meteor Crater over Sedona. Although very pretty, the drive down to Sedona from Flagstaff through Oak Creek Canyon is something better appreciated as a passenger rather than a driver. You need to keep your eyes on the road, not the scenery. Likewise, the rock formations surrounding Sedona are also pretty, but you'll have had plenty of such sights by that time. After the majesty of the Grand Canyon, Sedona may be somewhat of a disappointment.

Now, although some may consider it just a big hole in the ground..........it's a freakin' meteor crater!! How often are you going to be able to have a chance to view and walk around an actual meteor crater on this planet? Such well preserved meteor craters are extremely rare.

Furledleader, that's exactly what I was thinking!

A lot of my interests on this trip come from the Geography classes I took last semester which talked about Mesa Verde, meteor crater, rock formations, etc.

Last question - on my way back to Vegas I was thinking of driving up through Mojave Park. It will extend my drive by 1.5 hour (not including the time I stop). According to NPS website, I-15 has a nice scenic detour where you can see Joshua trees and Kelso dunes. Good idea?

I had to 'google' Kelso Dunes...singing sand??? I've never been there but if you're driving right by I vote for a visit. Joshua Trees are neat if you haven't seen one.



I was amused that, the same evening I posted here about Chaco and Mesa Verde, this film was broadcast on a local station and I was able to capture it on DVR. I've heard of the film but never seen it. It was an Anasazi evening!! Loved it!

http://www.solsticeproject.org/films.html

I don't know if you mentioned it but what time of year are you planning this trip for?

Last week of August

Perfect! Monsoon season...great thunderstorms.

Oh...I hope that doesn't mean it's going to rain the whole time :-S

No, the rainy season in the southwest means passing (sometimes large) thunderstorms but not every day nor all day...usually during the mid to late afternoon. It is only of concern if you are hiking in a canyon or travelling a dirt road. Mostly it means great skies for photography.

http://www.pbase.com/peterb/image/85429067

Late August and early September is my favorite time to visit.

this is overly ambitious to say the least and is not doable if you expect to benefit from a visit to mesa verde and several other locations. Mon Valley 17 mile gravel road, given seasonal traffic, will take you 3 or more hours and it is at least a 40 minute drive from Kayenta to reach the Visitors Center which is near the access. If you really want to enjoy MonV, take a adjacent Mystery Valley tour with a native american guide through trailhandlers and get up close to petroglyphs and ruins. Just to view the several areas in Mesa V would require 2-3 days, and that includes a ranger trip climbing up the ladders and through a cave into a
ruin. If you want to simply take a few steps on
the rim at the Grand C, & not walk several parts of the rim trail, much less go down partially into the canyon, you will need more than 1 day. The slot canyons you want to visit will take more time to visit and depending on weather may not be accessable. The road between Page and the GC will take you longer than you have esti mated. Meteor Crater would be more interesting than "Sedona" which sounds like you want to stop in the center and visit 4 blocks of shops. More interesting in the Flagstaff area is Walnut Canyon Natl Park which has cliff dwellings and the walk will take 2 hours+ and Wuptaki National Monument. If you want to see Red Rocks, you
need to hike in Red Rocks state park and give yourself at least a half day. If your intent is a whirlwind tour, better you should buy a video(s) than do this as proposed. Get real.

artnuvo, what you are rudely suggesting ("get real" and "better you should buy a video," indeed! Like the latter is remotely the same as actually being there...) is most certainly not the only way to travel successfully here.

I spent no more than half a day in Monument Valley doing a guided tour -- and this proved both sufficient for me and very enjoyable. One could certainly go into more detail, but that's a personal choice. I'm not convinced it's absolutely necessary.

Have been to Grand Canyon North and South Rim and spent no more than a day at each. Did some rim walking and rim hiking, taking it all in, and I found this wonderfully enjoyable. One could of course do a below the rim hike all the way in and out of the canyon, which would require more than a day -- but again, that's a personal decision. And while it likely would have been very enjoyable, I'm not convinced I missed something life-altering in not going below the canyon rim.

The research I've done into Mesa Verde suggests that one could indeed spend several days here. Or one could spend a single day, which of course limits how much of the park you can experience. Again, personal choice.

I suppose I could go on, but point made.