Is French Laundry worth the hassle?
 

DH and I are in the planning stages of a trip to wine country this summer. We are celebrating our 30th on the trip, not the actually date. Is French Laundry worth the hassle for getting the reservation? Also, is it worth the money spent? We do like good food and have spent a pretty penny on meals, but over $400 for 2?

I keep hearing about doing lunch over dinner. Is that the better option?

Thank goodness we are planning to hit the area during the week, not a weekend.

ST

DH and I were extremely disappointed in the French Laundry when we ate there a few years ago. while the food was creative and imaginative, the service was absolutely awful. 5 hours into the meal, we decided to wrap it up and took our dessert home. Now I know that you are supposed to relax, and I have lots of 3 -4 hour meals, but this was crazy. Keller was not there, so I wonder if the kitchen was just off that night. Anyway, it ran us $635 for 2, and all we had was a half bottle of champagne and a bottle of burgundy. Wine prices were outrageous. However, all that said, it is an experience, and if you love food, well it is the #1 rated restaurant in the US. Me, I think there are better places.

Yes. It is simply in a category all by itself. Nothing compares.

We did lunch and loved it. Your bill with wine, tax and tip will be closer to $1000 than $400 I'm afraid.

$1000 for 2? You are kidding, imaq? Even $600 seems steep to me. Is this a fixed prix menu or is everything priced separately [appetizer, salad, entree, dessert]?

Decisions, decisions.

It is a price fixed. There were several price fixed options, but no a la carte. I looked on-line, but the menu changes everyday, so they are not there to give you a sense of the prices.

LoriNY, what did the fixed price menu include? One of our favorite local places changes menus seasonally so not worried about the actual selections.

Here is a good example of - "If you have to ask" you can't afford it!

Here's another horribly disappointed FL diner. In fact tne only people I know who loved, loved, loved it are a couple who really want to tell you how much they spent on dinner there.

Food was very good and well presented. There are a hundred other restaurants in that region that have food that is very good and well represented for 1/4 the cost.

Happy Anniversary whatever you do.

Maybe so, monik, but I want to know what I can expect for that kind of money. You keep hearing that FL is the best, but don't always hear about the details. Just trying to make an informed decision.

So your informed decision is going to come from these replies vs. ohh, I don't know..... someone like Michelin Guide???

An informed decision can come from many sources, for me usually a combination of both a written guide and actual experiences of people who have been there.

As to a restaurant however, I prefer to get opinions from a variety of people that have been there, rather than a written guide. Different opinions from different people give a more rounded picture to consider, IMO.

I think it all depends what Thomas Keller has on his menu that night. When I have gone I have lucked out with a great menu. The service has always been great. You may have better luck on Friday and Saturday's menu.
Just my two cents.
If you want to try another top restaurant in Wine country, may I suggest Cyrus in Headlsburg.
In San Francisco, I would go with Gary Danko. Its one of my favorite restaurants in the U.S. and is rated as the top rated Zagat restaurant in the Bay Area/Wine Country...ahead of French Laundry.
Both French Laundry, Cyrus and Gary Danko take reservations 60 days in advance.

Will

I haven't been there, but there are a lot of wonderful restaurants in the area. As a vegetarian, the menus seemed very meat oriented in an unusual way, like squab, and with the prix fixe menu your choices are limited.

I like using OpenTable for the wine country, because you can make reservations and cancel them easily in advance, as well as check out the menus. A lot of good restaurants participate.

http://www.opentable.com/start.aspx?m=4

So, don't feel bad if you can't get reservations, as you will be able to eat quite well many places.

I agree that Gary Danko is good, and I recently went to Michael Mina's on Union Square, and had a tasting menu (vegetarian for me) which was delicious and very innovative. Everyone in my party got something different, and it was all exquisite and interesting, for about $100 per person per meal, food only.

I would agree with GSTRDR - esp w/ the recommendations of Gary Danko and Cyrus over FL. With FL, there ARE off nights and with the $$ oyu're spending if it's an off night it's going to be very disappointing.

On the other hand I have NEVER heard a complaint abotu Cyrus.

We ate at Gary Danko to celebrate a special occasion and agree that it was wonderful. Our evening at French Laundry was also terrific. We had a group of five and enjoyed incredible food, wonderful, friendly, knowledgable service. Our memories of that evening are really special and definitely worth the hassle (we actually got in off the wait list the day before). I've also eaten at some other over the top, make reservations months in advance, enormously expensive restaurants (in Chicago, Vegas and Paris) and FL compares very favorably and it was better in some ways (for example, the best butter ever!). I have also heard from several people that their experiences at FL were not so magical. I think you'll find very mixed opinions. We were not disappointed with our night and would go back again.

I think that if "is it worth the hassle?" crosses your mind you shouldn't go. I say this because to some people food and dining is almost an obsession and they read about these chefs, their restaurants, their techniques like others follow football or their children. If you don't have that intense interest than the meal and the $$ spent won't make sense to you even if you like the food. I never understand why people dine at certain places just to say they have when they themselves don't really care. I would ask why you are even interested in FL? Go to someplace where you aren't worried about price and what you are suppose to think of the food and preparation instead. Be yourself and choose the type of place you would like.

Happy anniversary!

How about the helpful answer, "it depends." We've been to the French Laundry several times, and have had a generally-wonderful experience, both food, service and ambiance, each time. (The only less-great time was their first day open after their big remodel a while back.)

But I will say that our best experience was the first time, partly because we didn't know what to expect.

To me, it's been worth the money we've spent. The French Laundry is on my list of top 5 favorite restaurants ever, both for the food and the experience as a whole. We've eaten at top foodie places in Europe, and the French Laundry ranks right up there. And as another comparison, I've eaten at Taillevant, and I would NOT choose to spend the money to eat at Taillevant again (not that it wasn't a great experience, it just wasn't worth the price, to me).

That being said, the French Laundry doesn't fit everyone's tastes, precisely because of the money and the reservations hassle. (My parents, for example. They've been to Napa several times, and I always discourage them from trying to go to the French Laundry. They like good food, but not necessarily gourmet food, and the prices would horrify them.) If you're questioning whether or not to go, then you'd probably enjoy one of the many other fantastic restaurants in the Napa Valley just as much, or more.

OP, With your teacher's salary I would recommend something like the "no hassle" Rutherford Grill.

Instead come to Napa Valley to enjoy the wine.

There's a recent thread on chowhound.com about French Laundry you might want to look at- not very positive.

Thanks everyone for your input. That's what I love about a forum like this. We most likely will skip FL mainly because we like to be able to make last minute choices and having dinner reservations 2 months out is not us. I will check opentable when we get home tomorrow. Picking up DD for the start of her spring break:) We are in the middle of a storm in Cleveland.

ST

"In San Francisco, I would go with Gary Danko. Its one of my favorite restaurants in the U.S. and is rated as the top rated Zagat restaurant in the Bay Area/Wine Country...ahead of French Laundry."

I've got the Zagat Survey right in front of me in my formerly nicotine stained fingers and it shows both Gary Danko and The French Laundry with exactly the same ratings. The only difference is the cost - $104 for Danko and $291 for the Laundry. On the website, if you ask for the restaurants to be sorted by ratings, The French Laundry comes out on top over Gary Danko.

The FL is not for everbody. It's for those who want the ultimate culinary experience, not necessarlily the ultimate dining experience. Patrons need to have a knowledge and palate far above the normal to appreciate the offerings. Like the very best wines, one needs to have spent a lot of time sampling the second growths to fully enjoy a premier cru.

Not everyone leaves the FL feeling that they got their money's worth or even having their stomachs full. There's a Mastercard commercial now on TV that expresses that viewpoint. But for others, the FL is the Holy Grail.

Personally, I liked the restaurant better when it was owned by the Schmidts. But, there is no question that Thomas Keller has elevated it to a position that is rivaled by only a few other restaurants in the US.

In my opinion, the French Laundry is unrivaled by any US restaurant in both cuisine and (especially) service.

According to Zagats, when the top food restaurants have the same food number , the restaurant thats listed first in the top food ranking is the number 1 food restaurant.
Gary Danko and FL both have 29 number food numbers but Gary Danko is listed at the top of the list on the Food Tops of San Francisco, thus giving it the number 1 rating. THis is according the updated 2008 zagat.com ratings.
For example, In New York city, Daniel, Sushi Yashuda, and Le Bernardin are the top 3 listed on the top food rating and all have 28 food numbers, but since Daniel is listed number 1, its the number 1 restaurant.

Will

A few years ago I called French Laundry well in advance to get a reservation for our special our anniversary to be spent in Napa. I told the representative that I wanted a reservation for two for our anniversary. He replied, "We are full that night." My response was "I haven't given you the date yet!"

THERE IS NO RESTAURANT WORTH THAT KIND OF ARROGANCE.

We had a lovely meal at the CIA - Culinary Institute and other restaurants where they seemed to appreciate us.

Happy 30th!

We were trying to decide between FL and Cyrus for a 40th birthday celebration, and after receiving lots of advice, we chose Cyrus. (It helps that we were staying in Healdsburg - which I absolutely recommend!). The dinner at Cyrus was wonderful - it is really an experience more than just a meal. One piece of advice - eat there on the last night of your vacation so you are not disappointed by the meals that follow!

French Laundry will change your life.

I've dined at French Laundry twice, and it is <i>not</i> worth the hassle (and expense) in my opinion.

(Nor is Mssr. Keller's Per Se here in New York.)

It's a great experience, albeit its price is very high. Because of all the hype about the French Laundry, I'm glad we went, but I do not plan to go back. Once was enough. The food was excellent, but not extraordinary. Although it's unfair to judge a kitchen by one meal, the menu did not seem designed to make the dishes complement each other. I thought that I heard beautiful melodies, but not a symphony. Had I paid less, or had I not heard it described as one of the best restaurants in the USA, I would not be as critical.

&quot;According to Zagats, when the top food restaurants have the same food number , the restaurant thats listed first in the top food ranking is the number 1 food restaurant.&quot;

That's interesting. The Zagat website I have access to is the one sponsored by Visa Signature and that one has The French Laundry listed above Gary Danko even though the ratints are identical.

No matter. Both are superb choices.

By the way, anyone with a Visa Signature card can view the Zagat survey.

Thanks again for all the personal input. Reading Zagats or any other rating system only gets you so far.

ST

Here's an interesting (some decent info) albeit old (Feb 2005) review.
http://www.vinography.com/archives/2..._french_l.html

Personally, I'd prefer to spend more on some great wines and somewhat less on food. But to each their own.

We just dined at Cyrus this past Sat. night for the second time and had yet another AMAZING experience, we sampled the Caviar paired with a nice Champagne this time, everything was fantastic, they personalized a menu for us and presented it at the end of the meal which was a nice touch, I think you have made an excellent choice going with this highly acclaimed restaurant, you won't be disappointed! ***kim*** ((f))

blah blah blah. Go to Chez Panisse in Berkley. You can eat for super cheap, er..economical on Monday nights. It's been rated in the top 5 - 10 resturants on the planet for years.

According to this its number 40.

http://www.theworlds50best.com/2007_list.html

&quot;According to this its number 40.

http://www.theworlds50best.com/2007_list.html&quot;

Thanks. That's an interesting link. Apparently, the judge for North America is Steve Dolinksy (and they misspell his name on the website). There may be an East Coast bias here.

However, Chez Panisse should be proud of being included in the top 100 restaurants of the world. And I see that Alice Waters is the most recent recipient of the Lifetime Achievement Award.

Everyone who loves food should dine at Chez Panisse at least once. Alice Waters is the First Lady of American Cuisine and this is where the Revolution started in America. And, I'm not talking about Berzerkeley.

Here is a retrospective look at that list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_re...t_in_the_world

What is interesting is just how much Chez Panisse jumps around. Climbing to 13, then back to 20 and to 40. Not sure whether this is any indication of a direction or just an indication that some other restaurants have gotten better.

Regarding French Laundry, I think it is instructive to see that it is in the lofty heights every year. Without discounting the experiences of others here, I do think there is a definite place for professional reviews, and I would think that, if it is not the best restaurant in the US, that it is at least easily in the top 5. And that Per Se rates in the Top 10 suggests that Thomas Keller really knows what he is doing.

This doesn't mean that everyone will like it, but it does mean, IMHO, that if you are really serious about food, then you should go there if you have the opportunity. Once you do that, then you can form your own opinion of the place. I'm glad I went.

For what it is worth, for those that want to go, I suggest trying to find someone who will get the reservations for you. There are services where you can hire someone to walk up when reservations are released and get them for you, as you can reserve in person 5 minutes before the phone lines open. And, take heart, reservations are easier to get at French Laundry than they are at El Bulli - I asked for a table for two for any of maybe 30 nights at El Bulli, and wasn't able to get anything.

Has anyone used the in-person reservation route at FL recently? The information I got was that the practice was discontinued a couple years ago and they no longer take in-person reservations.

I've eaten twice at French Laundry. The food is excellent, but I was disappointed in that it lacked seasonality. We had no problem with the service, but we went with a wine connoisseur and the staff was impressed by the wine he provided (at a $50 corkage fee). That may have influenced the service. In my opinion, Manresa in Los Gatos is more interesting.

can't do the in-person reservation thing anymore.

getting a reso two months to the date on the phone or opentable.com is a pain in the ass.

the current price for the 9 course prix fixe menu (either the regular one or the veggie menu) is $240 per person... that's up from about $150 each three years ago and about 180/210 two years ago. that includes service.

never been, but going next week... two days after chez panisse... will report back.

<i>can't do the in-person reservation thing anymore.</i>

Well that stinks. Thanks for the correction.