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kg8hm,
You must have not spent much time is southern Maryland. |
I have been a Southerner most of my sixty-ish years, born here, but lived about 15-20 years further North, and am back home now ... To say that most Southerners use the word "Yankee" as an insult is just ludicrous. If we use it, we use it jokingly, and expect to be teased about being Southerners in return! As far as "Bless your heart," most of the time when Southerners say it, is IS sincere. It is not generally a put-down as some of you imply.
travelinwifey, the story you repeat, "This is also a little humorous because it's so sick and 100% true, my sister in law has relatives in Alabama that she visited when she was in her teens, they wanted to look at the bottoms of her feet to make sure she didn't have any black in her. Bigotry exisits everywhere I agree, but some places are worse than others." Surely you don't base your opinion of a whole section of this country on some ridiculous tale like that ... there are ignorant people EVERYWHERE who might say something equally stupid, no more here in the South than any other part of the U.S. I think we show our own colors in the generalizations we make about people we don't even know! |
Cassandra: When I've spoken of ridicule, I have been speaking of the movies, TV shows news media, etc. AND SOME of the people here, not MOST northerners. MOST of the Northerners I've met have been very nice.
I thought I'd made that point already, but thought it worth reiterating. Cassandra, can you give examples of the ways southerners have publicly ridiculed the north - recently or otherwise? I can't think of ONE. Besides, I don't think they ARE ignorant ( as a generality ). If they are guilty of ridiculing anyone other than themselves, I call that arrogant, not ignorant ( and that goes for those British guys who made this video). As far as the capitals go. I get to typing & forget to do so , then go back & correct what I catch. I don't always capitalize southerner or south either. One last statement: I like Hiliary just as much as I like Nascar.:P |
Wasn't talking about public ridicule -- was talking about the kind of thing that creeps into conversation in passing, especially when they forget who's in the group.
(You're certainly right about stereotypes in movies, but consider how sometimes they're actually glorifying a particular kind of independent-renegade personality type that includes some stubborn ignorance -- a kind of American anti-hero. And they like to give them Southern accents to make sure no one thinks they're citified, sissy-fied, etc.) On the other hand, I do see ridicule in letters to the editor sometimes -- essentially a "Yankee go home" or a "whining carpetbaggers" or in things like derisive acronyms for Cary, NC (Containment Area for Relocated Yankees). You wrote: "Besides, I don't think they ARE ignorant ( as a generality ). . . " -- not sure which "they" you mean, but ignorance is sometimes more a function of being rural-poor OR of being urban-poor than being north or south of any geographic line, anyway. There are Southern scholars who are hundreds of times more erudite than a lot of educated northerners, and I won't claim for a minute there aren't a lot of northerners who've never been down here and still cherish stupid stereotypes. But on the other hand, I do get tired of things like being corrected by certain Southerners (including a college professor) who try to tell me that "Massachusetts" is properly pronounced "Massa-too-setts," even when they know that's where I was born and NO one born there would EVER pronounce it that way. One guy defended himself by telling me that I mispronounce the state name as Noerrth Caro-lah-eenah, when it's properly pronounced Noth Cah'lanna. So whose accent is right? Stupid question, obviously. All I know is that I was never made so conscious of the region of my birth in the midwest, the DC area, or the far northwest as I am in the South. I think I'll stick to my idea that on average Southerners -- for both better and sometimes worse -- are often more conscious of their regional heritage than northerners. I don't like either NASCAR or Hillary either. And a fair amount of other candidates for office and places to canonize a sport. Peace unto you. |
markrosy,
That's why I've visited Scotland three times, but only passed through London Heathrow... |
Where on Earth did that "Massatoosetts" pronunciation come from? We lived in New Orleans for 8 years and Texas for 12, and it is a common pronunciation, even among well-educated people.
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Cassandra...Cary as an acronym is actually pretty funny, although they'd have to add Floridians to that mix as well. I wouldn't take the Cary comment as malicious, and I'm from MA too, but living in the south for 40 years.
Wouldn't you agree that we grew up with somewhat of a superiority complex in New England regarding most everything New England? If you have not heard northerners deride the south you've been hanging with a good group. My ex-SIL, a college professor no less, took great pleasure in doing so. Even New Yorkers were considered a despicable group who invaded our territory (Berkshires) every summer and fall with their blaring horns, fast driving and terrible accents, jamming our highways and restaurants and demanding the instant compliance with their wants and needs....loudly. :) We could be quite the picky group! I had to laugh at your Mass-a-too-setts comment. How on earth did that pronunciation ever come about anyway, but I do know what you mean. I've finally got my husband pronouncing it correctly, but it took a while. |
[Cassandra, can you give examples of the ways southerners have publicly ridiculed the north - recently or otherwise? I can't think of ONE. Besides, I don't think they ARE ignorant ( as a generality ).]
I thought it was clear that I was referring to not thinking that northerners were ignorant. That Massachusetts pronunciation is pathetic. I've never heard it pronounced that way. ...but, I only learned last week how people in Nevada pronounce their state. Evidently Diane Sawyer on GMA was surprised to learn it as well. Not: NevAda (short A) Yes: Nev(add)a On the other hand, when the movie 'Red Sky at Morning' came out (a long time ago)I was shocked to see the movie & hear the main character (who was supposedly from Mobile) pronounce it mō'bəl when everyone there pronounces it: moh-beel Looks like he'd have been there at least long enough to have discovered that fact. It really killed all the hype of having the movie in my home town, IMO. ...I agree that the CARY acronym would make me immediately think of Florida. |
osb, I loved Red Sky at Morning!
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Anyone else think Vivian Leigh's "Georgia" accent in "Gone with the Wind" was actually pretty sad?
Oh, and here's a confession: I actually did grow up with almost no one saying a thing about the South. New Yawk was about as far south as my 'Massatoosetts' friends bothered to comment on. Mainly we more or less did believe Boston was "the Hub" (of the universe), and we were pretty much occupied with life from the Canadian border to Long Island Sound, the Hudson River to the Atlantic, and not a lot further. (But at least that was a larger area than Long Island to Newark, right? ;-) ) Of course, back then (right after the dinosaurs) media was almost all local except for Ed Sullivan, the Today show, and 15 minutes of John Cameron Swayze. |
Hmmmm, as a lifelong resident of the most ridiculed state in the union (Mississippi), I feel the need to weigh in on the original post. (We seem to have gotten rather far off track.)
I agree that this "reality television" WAS probably staged. However, I imagine if I rode through England with "The Queen can suck my c##k," or an American flag and the words "We regret the Marshall Plan" written on the side of my car (or some other such inflammatory statement), I might provoke some rather strong reactions myself. I have been to Alabama many times (granted, mostly to cities such as Birmingham and Montgomery), and I have never encountered anything but hospitality. (In fact, I'm currently planning another trip back.) So, no, I don't think Alabama is "really that bad." I think bigots can be found everywhere, and not just in the South or in poor, rural areas (which so often seem to be the butt of other people's jokes). This was an easy stereotype for the show's producers to use, and so they used it. (Just like when the Amazing Race filmed in Mississippi. Out of all the places they could have chosen, WHERE did they send the contestants? A trailer park. Thanks so much.) What is most frustrating is that, once people decide who they think you are, it is very difficult for you to change their minds (particularly when the stereotype is continually reinforced by a lazy media who would rather lean on anecdotal stuff rather than do their research and get the real story). The South as a whole is generalized as a racist, no-culture backwater. So even though there are beautiful beaches, great food, lots of amazing American history, TONS of culture (Mississippi alone is the home of many influential writers and musicians), and some pretty darn inspiring human kindness (especially after Hurricane Katrina), people think of our state and picture some kind of Ku Klux Klan scene. It's depressing. |
I agree that this show was heavily edited and staged and the same thing could happen in California, New York or Nebraska and an American could get equally inflammatory responses in the UK . Having said that:
Northerners-I'm from Texas, and many yankees are nice people but let's face it, a lot of northerners have a condescending and stereotyped view of the South and that is why southerners have some hostility towards the north. It has nothing to do with the civil war. Give me a break. Yankees need to remember that if you are arrogant and codescending, when you make fun of people's accents, you will create hostility. We have people from up North down here in large numbers and a few will throw off on Texas because it is not like it is back in New York or insult us!!!! I had one New Yorker tell me I talked funny and said no offence but you have a southern accent like this and then imitated me. I told him off(can't repeat it on here}. He was surprise but shut his stupid yankee mouth. In Texas, we don't take any sh@t off of those yankees who are arrogant and insult us. They seem shocked but quickly learn. |
"That's only one story...the others I have are more upsetting and racially charged. From my personal experience, I have no problem saying that Alabama is at least 50 years behind the rest of the country culturally. The guys on the video were lucky."
Rubbish. Alabama(have family there though I'm from Texas) is far far less segregated than up North or California. Of course you have bigots anywhere on the globe but only in the south is the whole area judged. Look at the top 10 states with the most hate groups, Alabama isn't in the top 10 but California and Michigan are. "This is also a little humorous because it's so sick and 100% true, my sister in law has relatives in Alabama that she visited when she was in her teens, they wanted to look at the bottoms of her feet to make sure she didn't have any black in her. Bigotry exisits everywhere I agree, but some places are worse than others." Oh please. You are ridiculous if you base your opinion of Alabama on a few stupid people like this who exist everywhere. No more people in Alabama think like this than anywhere else. Aryan Nations neo-nazi headquarters are in Washington State but I don't say everyone in the pacific northwest is a nazi. Can you really be this stupid. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Author: olesouthernbelle Date: 11/26/2007, 04:58 pm Cassandra: When I've spoken of ridicule, I have been speaking of the movies, TV shows news media, etc. AND SOME of the people here, not MOST northerners. MOST of the Northerners I've met have been very nice. I thought I'd made that point already, but thought it worth reiterating. Cassandra, can you give examples of the ways southerners have publicly ridiculed the north - recently or otherwise? I can't think of ONE. Besides, I don't think they ARE ignorant ( as a generality ). If they are guilty of ridiculing anyone other than themselves, I call that arrogant, not ignorant ( and that goes for those British guys who made this video). As far as the capitals go. I get to typing & forget to do so , then go back & correct what I catch. I don't always capitalize southerner or south either. One last statement: I like Hiliary just as much as I like Nascar. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Author: Cassandra Date: 11/26/2007, 07:26 pm Wasn't talking about public ridicule -- was talking about the kind of thing that creeps into conversation in passing, especially when they forget who's in the group. (You're certainly right about stereotypes in movies, but consider how sometimes they're actually glorifying a particular kind of independent-renegade personality type that includes some stubborn ignorance -- a kind of American anti-hero. And they like to give them Southern accents to make sure no one thinks they're citified, sissy-fied, etc.) On the other hand, I do see ridicule in letters to the editor sometimes -- essentially a "Yankee go home" or a "whining carpetbaggers" or in things like derisive acronyms for Cary, NC (Containment Area for Relocated Yankees). You wrote: "Besides, I don't think they ARE ignorant ( as a generality ). . . " -- not sure which "they" you mean, but ignorance is sometimes more a function of being rural-poor OR of being urban-poor than being north or south of any geographic line, anyway. There are Southern scholars who are hundreds of times more erudite than a lot of educated northerners, and I won't claim for a minute there aren't a lot of northerners who've never been down here and still cherish stupid stereotypes. But on the other hand, I do get tired of things like being corrected by certain Southerners (including a college professor) who try to tell me that "Massachusetts" is properly pronounced "Massa-too-setts," even when they know that's where I was born and NO one born there would EVER pronounce it that way. One guy defended himself by telling me that I mispronounce the state name as Noerrth Caro-lah-eenah, when it's properly pronounced Noth Cah'lanna. So whose accent is right? Stupid question, obviously. All I know is that I was never made so conscious of the region of my birth in the midwest, the DC area, or the far northwest as I am in the South. I think I'll stick to my idea that on average Southerners -- for both better and sometimes worse -- are often more conscious of their regional heritage than northerners. I don't like either NASCAR or Hillary either. And a fair amount of other candidates for office and places to canonize a sport. Peace unto you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Author: bkluvsNola Date: 11/26/2007, 07:28 pm markrosy, That's why I've visited Scotland three times, but only passed through London Heathrow... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Author: happytourist Date: 11/26/2007, 07:55 pm Where on Earth did that "Massatoosetts" pronunciation come from? We lived in New Orleans for 8 years and Texas for 12, and it is a common pronunciation, even among well-educated people. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Author: OO Date: 11/26/2007, 08:10 pm Cassandra...Cary as an acronym is actually pretty funny, although they'd have to add Floridians to that mix as well. I wouldn't take the Cary comment as malicious, and I'm from MA too, but living in the south for 40 years. Wouldn't you agree that we grew up with somewhat of a superiority complex in New England regarding most everything New England? If you have not heard northerners deride the south you've been hanging with a good group. My ex-SIL, a college professor no less, took great pleasure in doing so. Even New Yorkers were considered a despicable group who invaded our territory (Berkshires) every summer and fall with their blaring horns, fast driving and terrible accents, jamming our highways and restaurants and demanding the instant compliance with their wants and needs....loudly. We could be quite the picky group! I had to laugh at your Mass-a-too-setts comment. How on earth did that pronunciation ever come about anyway, but I do know what you mean. I've finally got my husband pronouncing it correctly, but it took a while. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Author: olesouthernbelle Date: 11/26/2007, 09:27 pm [Cassandra, can you give examples of the ways southerners have publicly ridiculed the north - recently or otherwise? I can't think of ONE. Besides, I don't think they ARE ignorant ( as a generality ).] I thought it was clear that I was referring to not thinking that northerners were ignorant. That Massachusetts pronunciation is pathetic. I've never heard it pronounced that way. ...but, I only learned last week how people in Nevada pronounce their state. Evidently Diane Sawyer on GMA was surprised to learn it as well. Not: NevAda (short A) Yes: Nev(add)a On the other hand, when the movie 'Red Sky at Morning' came out (a long time ago)I was shocked to see the movie & hear the main character (who was supposedly from Mobile) pronounce it mô'bəl when everyone there pronounces it: moh-beel Looks like he'd have been there at least long enough to have discovered that fact. It really killed all the hype of having the movie in my home town, IMO. ...I agree that the CARY acronym would make me immediately think of Florida. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Author: starrsville Date: 11/26/2007, 09:39 pm osb, I loved Red Sky at Morning! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Author: Cassandra Date: 11/26/2007, 10:22 pm Anyone else think Vivian Leigh's "Georgia" accent in "Gone with the Wind" was actually pretty sad? Oh, and here's a confession: I actually did grow up with almost no one saying a thing about the South. New Yawk was about as far south as my 'Massatoosetts' friends bothered to comment on. Mainly we more or less did believe Boston was "the Hub" (of the universe), and we were pretty much occupied with life from the Canadian border to Long Island Sound, the Hudson River to the Atlantic, and not a lot further. (But at least that was a larger area than Long Island to Newark, right? ) Of course, back then (right after the dinosaurs) media was almost all local except for Ed Sullivan, the Today show, and 15 minutes of John Cameron Swayze. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Author: bradshawgirl Date: 01/24/2008, 02:53 pm Hmmmm, as a lifelong resident of the most ridiculed state in the union (Mississippi), I feel the need to weigh in on the original post. (We seem to have gotten rather far off track.) I agree that this "reality television" WAS probably staged. However, I imagine if I rode through England with "The Queen can suck my c##k," or an American flag and the words "We regret the Marshall Plan" written on the side of my car (or some other such inflammatory statement), I might provoke some rather strong reactions myself. I have been to Alabama many times (granted, mostly to cities such as Birmingham and Montgomery), and I have never encountered anything but hospitality. (In fact, I'm currently planning another trip back.) So, no, I don't think Alabama is "really that bad." I think bigots can be found everywhere, and not just in the South or in poor, rural areas (which so often seem to be the butt of other people's jokes). This was an easy stereotype for the show's producers to use, and so they used it. (Just like when the Amazing Race filmed in Mississippi. Out of all the places they could have chosen, WHERE did they send the contestants? A trailer park. Thanks so much.) What is most frustrating is that, once people decide who they think you are, it is very difficult for you to change their minds (particularly when the stereotype is continually reinforced by a lazy media who would rather lean on anecdotal stuff rather than do their research and get the real story). The South as a whole is generalized as a racist, no-culture backwater. So even though there are beautiful beaches, great food, lots of amazing American history, TONS of culture (Mississippi alone is the home of many influential writers and musicians), and some pretty darn inspiring human kindness (especially after Hurricane Katrina), people think of our state and picture some kind of Ku Klux Klan scene. It's depressing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Author: ronnie36 Date: 04/19/2008, 03:46 am I agree that this show was heavily edited and staged and the same thing could happen in California, New York or Nebraska and an American could get equally inflammatory responses in the UK . Having said that: Northerners-I'm from Texas, and many yankees are nice people but let's face it, a lot of northerners have a condescending and stereotyped view of the South and that is why southerners have some hostility towards the north. It has nothing to do with the civil war. Give me a break. Yankees need to remember that if you are arrogant and codescending, when you make fun of people's accents, you will create hostility. We have people from up North down here in large numbers and a few will throw off on Texas because it is not like it is back in New York or insult us!!!! I had one New Yorker tell me I talked funny and said no offence but you have a southern accent like this and then imitated me. I told him off(can't repeat it on here}. He was surprise but shut his stupid yankee mouth. In Texas, we don't take any sh@t off of those yankees who are arrogant and insult us. They seem shocked but quickly learn. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post a Reply Screen name: ronnie36 | Profile My Reply "That's only one story...the others I have are more upsetting and racially charged. From my personal experience, I have no problem saying that Alabama is at least 50 years behind the rest of the country culturally. The guys on the video were lucky." Rubbish. Alabama(have family there though I'm from Texas) is far far less segregated than up North or California. Of course you have bigots anywhere on the globe but only in the south is the whole area judged. Look at the top 10 states with the most hate groups, Alabama isn't in the top 10 but California and Michigan are. |
WHEW!!! This really opened up a can of bad sentiment. But it makes me wonder why someone brought up a message from 6 months ago?
One thing I am sure of though - if I ever need to be part of any conflict I'd LOVE to have Starrsville on MY side.. She's quite a gal!! |
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