Indian reserves
 

I am going to stay for a visit at the u.s.a. for a month, mainly around Philadelphia .
My hosts, will of course show me close places but I do not want to miss "real Indians".
This is my first time in America, and maybe even the last ( I am not so young).
I would like to read about places and ways to fulfill my "dream".please, not very expensive. Thanks.

OK, I have to assume you don't mean to be insulting here, so I'm going to help you out with your terminology. The proper term is "American Indians". And they don't live on "reserves" - those are for fenced-in animals. There are "reservations" - land grants to American Indians. I am not familiar with New England, so I can't advise there. You could take a week and go to the Southwest - New Mexico, Arizona and the Four Corners area are great places to learn about the American Indian culture. I don't know what your idea of "not very expensive" is, so this may not be right for you.

Actually, isn't "Native American" the proper term?

No. If you were born in America, you are a native american, regardless of your heritage. American Indians are the ethnic and cultural civilizations that existed in the Americas prior to coloinzation by Europeans.

I believe both terms are correct:

Native American:
 Encyclopædia Britannica Article

also called  American Indian,  Amerindian,  Amerind,  or  Indian  member of any of the aboriginal peoples of the Western Hemisphere, with the exception of the Eskimo, or Inuit, and Aleuts.

The aboriginal peoples of the Western Hemisphere usually are recognized as constituting two broad groupings. The first and larger group, called Native Americans, is further divided geographically into North American, Middle American, and South America.

:)>-

"Native American" has been widely accepted terminology for the last few decades, and I won't argue that people still use it. However, anthropologists have shifted to using the term "American Indian" out of respect for all "Native Americans". It also has a lot to do with the connotations that people assign (consciously or subconsciously) to the term "native", insinuating that natives are inherently "savage" and "uncivilized". This shift in terminology is another step in eliminating the underlying notion of American Indians as second-class citizens.

Hey Beckers..If all those born in America are considered "Native American", Why are all black people still referred as "African Americans"?

Sorry, Sorry, Sorry ! I did not mean to insult. It is just because I do not know the right terminology, and I used the one I remember from my childhood (The books of Karl May, and maybe that the spelling is wrong, because I've read it
translated to my language).
So thanks to all of you, and I will wait for more suggestions about the tour and not the terminology.

ahhnold, think about it. I am NOT advocating the use of the term "Native American"! If you will re-read my post, I said that if you were born in America, you are a native american, meaning you are native to america - not that you belong to a particular ethnic or cultural group. This is precisely my point. "Native American" is an often impoperly assigned terminology. If you are African American, or Italian American, or Irish American, or Vietnamese American, or Mexican American, you can still be native to America. Yet another reason why "Native American" should not be used to identify an ethnic or cultural group.

There is the brand new Museum of the American Indian in Washington D.C. I am sure there are many interesting displays. Otherwise, it would take a trip across the U.S. I'm afraid.

The U.S. is so large, I would do some research and pinpoint a special area to visit. The Navaho reservation in northern Arizona is immense, dotted here and there with small houses and beautiful red rock scenery.

As far as the political correct issue, I feel the ONLY one to make sense is "Native American" for indian cultures. All others should drop the prefix and call us Americans. Anything else promotes division. Calling one of Irish decent a Native disrespects true natives.

Hey friend,
my request was focused on the geographic-ethnic subject, and I found myself in the middle of a philosophical
disputes.

ahhnold, if you drop the "Native" for everyone EXCEPT American Indians, you are INCREASING the DIVISION between "them" and "us". Furthermore, why insult all other cultures by saying that only American Indians deserve their own category? That is insulting to everyone who honors their heritage, inculding the "African Americans" you were concerned with in your previous post.

Hey friend - This is what happens sometimes on a public forum. You can either accept it, or repost with a new message, taking into account what you have just learned. Either way, you can't stop this discussion from happening. :)

That said, there are plenty of tribes all around North America, not just in the Southeast US. I know they exist in Connecticut and Michigan because I've lived in both. Do a web search for this topic and I'm sure you can find museums and the like all over the country, even in the Philadelphia area.

Unless museums wouldn't fit your description of "real Indians" then you'll need to explain more of what you mean.

Whaddyamean, no SE Indians?!?!?!

My grandfather, a member of the Ani-Stohini/Unami nation found the tern "Indian" to be offensive and would always correct anyone who referred to him that way. To him, "Indian" was not only incorrect, it was insulting. He was not from India, he was Ani-Stohini.

How lovely that we now have a term for our people that anthropologists can agree upon. Did anyone tell them that the indigenous people already had terms for themselves?

And this nonsnese about calling ingienous people as such will increase the division between them and those of non-native descent is ridiculous. Why do you think so many choose to remain or return to native (asssigned) lands? Why are you assuming that there should not be some sort of individualism among one's culture. Not everyone wants to be assimilated into the borg. It is OK to celebrate one's heritage and to identify with it. I am proud of my heritage and do not want to be simply labled "American."

Being of European descent, I don't have the authority to speak on this that you do, here_today. But I can certainly understand your grandfather's being insulted at being referred to by an incorrect term inflicted on your people by Christopher Columbus. And I would agree that using the exact nation name would be preferable. But sometimes you really do need a "collective" term. Whatever inexactitudes may exist, if it were me, I think I'd be far less offended by the term "Native American" than by American Indian. And, beckers, if I followed the logic you used earlier, wouldn't Asian Indians born in the U.S. be American Indians? Although I realize the words are usually reversed, as in Irish American rather than American Irish.

But to answer liiat's actual question, there are reservations in the East. I hope that you might hear from someone in the Philadelphia area who can tell you which one would be the closest.

liiat,
Here's a link that you may find useful. It addresses the terms "Indian" and "Native American" as well -
http://www.usatourist.com/english/inside/indians.html

The article suggests visiting a powwow and provides a link at the bottom of the page.

Seniormsuedu had a good recommendation regarding the new museum in Washington, DC.

By the way, there were as many missions in North Florida/ South Georgia but the structures were of timber in a temperate climate rather than adobe in a desert climate and the remains are difficult to find.

An associate is a serious participant in powwows in the SE and creates pottery in his tribe's authentic way starting with digging clay from creekbeds and firing the pots and vessels in fire pits dug in the riverbank.

Give these links a look - I think they will be useful in your planning.

CAPH2, you answered your own question. American Indian and Indian American are two distinctly different terms.

Poor liiat! Welcome to American-style cultural correctness!

Perhaps you should contact the tourism board for Philadelphia: www.gophila.com. You could ask them if they know of any nearby reservations. Or you could also try www.visitpa.com, the pennsylvania state trourism board. Lastly, try http://www.americanindian.si.edu/
This is the site for the National Museum of the American Indian in Washington DC; they may be able to inform you as well.

The main reason you are getting so few answers is that the largest and best known reservations are all far west of Pennsylvania. (Perhaps you could fly out west with your hosts for a short visit?)
Best of luck!

That's a great website, starrsville!

If anyone still cares:
Native American is a term invented by the federal government in the 1960's to group American Indians, Native Hawaiians and Native Alaskans. It is not a term agreed upon by anthropologists or scholars in any other discipline. I have done quite bit of work both for my job and for my PhD program with American Indians, and can tell you that "American Indian" is the preferred term of the moment. There are some that dislike this term-I think there are some regional differences-but here out West, the peoples that have been here for thousands of years call themselves American Indians.

In reply to the poster, if you can somehow manage to get to the southwest (maybe a long weekend with a last minute fare?), Canyon de Chelly might offer you the best glimpse into Indian life. You can only access the canyon floor with an Indian guide, and I've heard that the tours can be quite interesting.
http://www.nps.gov/cach/index.htm

Some of my relatives are "real Indians". They are of the Cherokee tribe in western NC. As for being called a "Native American" or "American Indian"; that was derived from the colonization of America by Europeans. There are tribes all over America. The Cherokees are descendants of Indians who escaped the forced exodus by the U.S. Government in the early 1800's to make room for the Europeans thirst for money (gold). They hid in the mountains of western NC and were forced to live in shame and poverty for years. I don't want to give a history lesson here... What people call Cherokee or other tribes is just that, a moniker created by others. Actually Cherokee refer to each other as yun-wi-ya. liiat, if you ever get the chance, come to Cherokee, NC and see the drama "Unto These Hills", set in an outdoor amphitheatre.

Smokeyboy, take a look at the powwow link I referenced earlier. I think I may go to the Cherokee Memorial ceremony in Talking Rock, GA in May.

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/pw_...p?eventid=3799

My maternal great-grandmother was Cherokee whose family hid in the TN mountain coves rather than head west to Oklahoma on what became the Trail of Tears. I look just like "Granny" - lots of Cherokee blood pumping through these veins.

My paternal great-grandparents were of Scotch-Irish descent arriving in GA via Virginia and South Carolina - moving into former Creek land as it was "vacated".

So, this Cherokee girl is living in Creek land.

I didn't know until a few years ago what the saying I'd heard all my life really meant - "We'll see you if the Lord's willing and the creeks don't rise". I thought it meant "creeks" as in flooding. Finally, learned it was "Creeks" as in attacks on the settlers by the original occupants of the land.

Just ran into this...Yikes!

liiat: what do you expect to see at a reservation? Current living conditions on most reservations in my observations are less than great. They are not what one may assume from American movies. For an example of this, read the recent news stories of the school shootings in MN.

That being said, there are some places that would give you a cultural/historical background of Indian history. Chokia Mounds in South Central Illinois is one of these areas: http://www.cahokiamounds.com/cahokia.html
As mentioned there are more historical sites in the Western part of the US.

If you are interested in US history and want to or need to stay near your base, I would encourage you to visit the Gettysburg battle site which is very historic from the Civil war of the late 1800's.

Have a good trip!

liiat -

You need to be much more specific about what you want to see. Don't know what you mean by "real Indians" - there are people of American Indian descent (I'm trying to avoid the argument so as not to offend anyone) everywhere in the US. I can introduce you to two I know in NYC.

Are you looking for a specific kind of historic/cultural site? (As others have mentioned there are many more remains in the southwest due to construction materials/weather conditions than in areas such as the northeast, northwest or south - where most cultures constructed primarily of wood - and so little remains. and for some groups - such as the plains indians who were more nomadic - villages were often even less lasting. And this leaves out the entire issue of forced relocations.)

Much of the northeast was occupied by members of the Iroquois Confederation (the Indians of the 1760's French and Indian wars) which may be closest to you. But unless some special event is taking place there is not much to see and the traditional villages - with wooden longhouses etc don;t exist any longer even as historical reconstructions as far as I know.

It seems history is one most of us know little about when it comes to lineage. I was amazed at how my ancestors co-existed in the area that is now the the Qualla boundary (Cherokee) . White, Black & Indian. It seems the modus set forth by the U.S. government ticked off a lot of people in this area. A lot could be learned. But, hey that's another story. starrsville, Wado! liiat, I truly hope you get to fulfill some of your dream.

Dear friends,
Now I see, how much I still have to learn, before I dream even of fulfilling my chilhood dreams, and for that, I thank you a l l.
(I have a lot of homework to do)
Thanks again for opening for me new points of view.

liiat,
If you are coming to the US for a month, you may want to think about a short trip to the American Southwest.

I just checked Southwest Airlines website (www.southwest.com), randomly chose some dates and found round trip rates from Philly to Alb., NM for $317.

You could get a rental car, drive up to Santa Fe and Taos, and go to Canyon de Chelley as recommended by another poster on this thread.

It's worth some consideration - fulfill your dream on your maybe one-and-only-trip to the US.

During my recent visits to the new Smithsonian museum, we were encourage by our Native American Indian (I think that's the terminology they used!) to attend any pow-wows we were able to.

At the Iroqois Museum near Howes Caves NY we learned that there is "social dancing" and then "ceremonial dances" and that the former are willingly shared that the latter are too religious in nature to be performed outside the ceremonies.

Excellant Pequiot museum near Foxwoods in CT. Years ago (childhood) visited Seminole "Village" near Ft Lauderdale.

Visited Puye Indian Ruins near Santa Fe and also Pecos National Monument(Park?) near there as well.

Liiat - you might see if you can locate the Ken Burns series on videotape or DVD about the West and Native American Indians. Most of us grew up with a distorted "Cowboys & Indians" viewpoint and I'm sorry to say that our people and government have not always done the right thing in our dealings, even more recent times.

I did a long distance bicycle ride 15 yr ago, and we rode thru some reservations. Sometimes we were asked to NOT take pictures. As we were on somewhat of a schedule, I could not spend as much time visiting and talking as I might have, but appreciated what I was able to experience. I hope you are able to fulfill your dream, and am sorry you were caught "off-guard" in the discussion about terminology.

Liiat - Based on your reference to the German writer Karl May, I'd guess that's the basis of your interest in "real Indians." I'll try to avoid any discussion on the correct terminology, you've gotten enough of that!

Karl May's books were set in the American West, which would probably be primarily the U.S. states of Arizona, New Mexico and possibly Utah or Colorado as well. While there are still members of various Eastern tribes in the eastern U.S., and reservations as well, the bigger populations of American Indian/Native Americans and tribes that you might have heard of (Apache, Sioux, who now more often use the more correct term Lakota, Pueblo, Navajo) are located in those Western states. Even those areas, and the reservations within them, would probably not fit your image based on Karl May's stories.

But if you can make your way out West, you will experience a different side of U.S. lifej and its geography, and you will certainly enjoy it!

P.S. to other posters of this thread - Not to add to the way-too-long discussion of terminology, but to give a different and somewhat humerous viewpoint, my son is Indian American. That is, his paternal grandparents are from India. He calls himself "Indian American" and the "other" type of Indians "Native Americans" - I don't think he's old enough to understand the subtle distinction between Indian American and American Indian. When he tells people he's Indian American, and especially living in a Western state and not having any facial or other features that might be considered to be distinctive of people from India, people think he's Indian as in from a tribe here in the U.S. Let's not even go into the year he dressed as "the other Indian" for Halloween...

American myopia never ceases to amaze me.

A person from another country expresses an interest in a unique aspect of American culture; because English isn't his first language, he mangles some of the terminology, but clearly expresses regret for doing so.

He is abused repeatedly for his mistake, treated to inane discussions among the generally ill-informed, and then taken to task for not educating himself about tribal life today and the school shootings in Red Lake, Minnesota.

Wow! Have any of you tried to figure out who Karl May is, and where liiat's vision of the American Indian came from? How much do you know about, say, German history and culture going back centuries?

Give the guy a break! Quit making him feel bad for wanting to see American Indian culture firsthand! Sheesh.

Funny where this whole business of trying to be politically correct takes us. Seems one can't win for losing.

liiat, Please add some clarify to your dream. What are you hoping to see? If it's not casinos, you might be disappointed.

For the curious Americans, Karl May is a very famous German writer of Wild West American stories written I believe around a century ago. He wrote tales of cowboys and Indians without ever having travelled to the US.

His hometown is Dresden - actually a small suburb of Dresden called Radebeul.

One of my favorite late night (and I mean very late night) hangouts in Radebeul is actually the Karl May Saloon right on the main street that runs from Dresden to Meissen.

Decorated to the hilt with western memorabelia. US country music playing, line dancing, you name it. What a hoot!

The proprietor - don't know his name but I call him 'Tex' (I told you this was a very late night hangout, after other places have shut for the night). He's very appreciative of receiving Western gifts from any US visitors. Thought of bringing a nice set of 3' Texas long horns with me one time but didn't think TSA would let them on as a carryon.

OK, I digress from the OP's question.

rb_travelerxATyahoo, Not to hijack the thread, but are the Puye ruins at Bandelier National Monument?

E, first of all, I don't think anyone here has abused liiat. He asked a question, we tried to help clarify his intent and terminology (wouldn't you want someone to correct you - say, before you got off the plane and asked someone where the nearest "Indian Reserve" was? That would be a lot less embarassing, and there's no shame in ignorance - just the failure to correct it).

We have offered answers as to his original intent, and continued having a discussion on our own. As a previous poster said, that's what happens in public forums - discussion.

And as for the remark about being "generally uninformed", I think you need to think about your own myopia - you obviously don't know any of us, and have chosen to ignore the fact that several of us have advanced degrees and/or can speak to this issue with personal experience and insight. Aside from that, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, anyway.

Furthermore, the suggestion about Red Lake was merely that - a suggestion on a topic that could give new insight to the OP. No one was berating liiat for anything. Had they said, "You idiot, don't you know what just happened in Red Lake?", that would be different. What place2u wrote was (and, I cut and paste)

"For an example of this, read the recent news stories of the school shootings in MN."

Why be so quick to fly off the handle? Liiat even says thanks and that he is going to research more on this topic - who are you to say we haven't helped?

Indian Preserves:

2 cups sugar
1 quart water
3 finely chopped Indians. . .


Oh, REserves. Never mind.

OMG, LOL! Love it! LOVE IT!!

OMG patrick, you read my mind, I saw this topic and thought, what the heck is in Indian Preserves...maize ? But I thought it would offend...you handled it eloquently, as usual LOL ! Great job to lighten this up.