How would you handle this?
 

I know my topic is very vague, but I didn't wan to mention any names.

I made a reservation for a NYC apartment for next month through craigslist. The lady requested we pay through moneygram, which at the time I didn't know was a no-no.
So I did it.

It was for 5 nights beginning Nov. 15 on 25th street in Manhattan.

The lady acknowledged she received the moneygram, but I haven't heard from her since.

The phone number she supplied me with, I call and all I get is an answering service and never a call back. It doesn't even mention her name, just: The person you are trying to reach is not available, please leave a message," type thing.

I also have sent numerous e-mails and even sent a text message to the number she provided. All have fallen on deaf ears.

I am pretty sure I have been scammed, but what do you think? She had me send the moneygram to: 46 Salem St., Greenwich, NY.

Should I be alarmed? How would you handle this? Would you put this person's name out on a Web site like this, if for nothing else, to let others know and perhaps find out if it has happened before?

I will give you the property address at which we are supposed to have a place and maybe somebody out there will know if it is a fake or if it is a real property that rents out apartments.

It is: 456 W 25th Street, NYC (Manhattan).10001

I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds here, but I am pretty peaved.

Please let me know. I will probably have to make another reservation, but I really need some valuable input.

Thanks

(And if you know of anything that might be available for the dates mentioned, now on a relatively skimpy budget, please let me know that, too.)

I looked it up on google map. It appears to be a real building - 3 story walkup, with basement. The basement has a boarded up window. There is a man sitting on the step.


How much did you pay and what were you supposed to be getting? Apartment, how many bedrooms. etc.

I don't have a good feeling about this. Were there pictures on craigslist?

Deb

I suspect you have been scammed. I would contact craigslist and see if you can get additional info. For housing they charge posters so they probably have the posters real name and credit card info.

<i>I am pretty sure I have been scammed, but what do you think? </i>

Absolutely.

<i>Should I be alarmed? How would you handle this? Would you put this person's name out on a Web site like this, if for nothing else, to let others know and perhaps find out if it has happened before?</i>

http://newyork.craigslist.org/about/scams
Scroll down to "Who should I notify about fraud or scam attempts?"

You can also add your experience to this nice collection over on Tripadvisor:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic..._New_York.html

I am so sorry to read this. There is one small silver lining to sending a moneygram--at least, unlike a check, you did not send her more personal information that could lead to identity theft.

I googled 46 Salem St Greenwich NY. It is near Albany. There are several houses for sale on that street, looks like a nice suburban neighborhood. The phone #'s in the RE ad are area code 518 - is that what you have been calling?

Also, not sure, but doesn't Western Union require id to get money? do they keep records?

Deb

Hmmmm. I was just up that way earlier this week. Is there a finders fee?

Sorry, no finder's fee. Already on a limited budget. And losing over $500 on this really hurts. I am still hopeful I will get a call or something of a reply before long. Probably wishful thinking and naive, but I am trying to remain positive.

I really now need some ideas for housing. I don't want to get there and have to find something. That's not fun at all.

I know I should have been more careful, but it was a good deal. I know: if it sounds too good to be true...

I feel like Lamont Sanford on the episode about the Regency Commode when the dude gave him a phone number for a McDonald's hamburger place on the back of his check.

Thanks for the feedback. Keep 'em coming.

Just to answer some more of your questions:
yes, there were pictures. And they looked great.

I don't know anything about the practices of western union. I would think the person would have to show identification, but I just don't know.

The area code provided was not 518, but it could be a cell phone from anywhere.

Thanks so far. I will keep checking for new responses.

Would u print her name on here?

so sorry to hear this.

You can google the area could and see what area comes up.

There's a Hostelling International hostel on the West side and it is reputable and the rates are great for New York. Maybe you could try there for a private room? Just a suggestion.

Doug Stalling, Fodors editor, once posted a bunch of relatively inexpensive hotels and places to stay in New York that were reputable. If I can find the thread, I'll pull it up for you.

Believe there's also a YMCA/YWCA that was mentioned some time ago.

Just a couple of suggestions for you to look into.

Well - if you want New YorkCity you would have to be in Greenwich Village- but the address would still be New York, NY with a zipcode of 100XX. I'm not aware of any Salem St in Greenwich Village -but I live uptown and don;tknow every tiny street.

Also don't know Greenwich, NY (but Greenwich CTis av very upscale suburb about an hour from thecity.

If it's a Manhattan phonenumber the area code would be eithre 212 (older nos) or 917 or 646 (either newer numbers or cell phone).

If you haven;t heard anything I would assume you have been scammed adn contact:

1)NY City Better Business
2)Craig's list
3) tripadvisor
4) put more specifics here

5 nights for $500 in Manhattan inNovisincredibly cheap-would be amaxedif you coud get any legitimate apartment for that.(You would have trouble getting a room in a B&B with a shared bth.)

We don't want anything with a shared anything. We go on vacations to get out, but we really like our priovacy when it comes to certain things. Thanks for the input, though.

The name I was given is Jennifer Bash, the phone number is (646) 233-3041.

I just wish I had some recourse. I realize I was stupid and shouldn't have done it, but that's all water under the bridge now. That ship has long since sailed.

The address I mentioned is the correct address she gave me:
46 Salem St., Greenwich, NY.

I haven't tried to do anything through Craigslist yet. Should I wait and see for a bit longer? Should I go ahead and bite the bullet and reserve another place?

It just hacks me off that there are fiends out there ready to prey on the unsuspecting. I would like to say that it's never going to happen to me again, but never is a long time. And I am a far cry from being perfect.

Sorry. Now I'm rambling.

Thanks

As you have now found out you have booked in the wrong area. This is NOT New York City, but up past Albany. http://www.greenwichny.org/

You may want to just consider going, and see what you find. It is easy to find cheap lodging in that area.

Only, suggestion I have for cheaper NYC loding is Priceline. Alternatively, consider the Newark Hilton, which is at the Penn Station, and easy PATH access into Manhattan.

BQ - the address in Greenwich NY is where the OP sent the money gram; the location of the rental was on W 25th st. in NYC.

How long ago did you send money gram? When are you supposed to stay in the place? Wondering if there is a legit reason, but have doubts.

How were you supposed to get keys to get into apt? That is a long distance for them to come and give you keys.

Did you see outside picture of the place in craigslist? Does it match the one you can see on google map?

So much real estate, especially rental, is bogus on CL. People find legit places for rent on other sites and then post them on craigslist as their own with absurd reasons why you have to send them downpayment [out of country, etc].

I would not go to NYC and expect to be able to stay at that location unless you have talked to the person you sent $$ to and gotten details about how you get keys. To blindly go there, HOPING it is legit, will leave you literally out on the streets.

Deb

I see OP did a google search on phone number earlier today and found [as I did] that there are questions about it being a rental scam using this phone # from March 2009.

Sorry.

There are all of these ads for apartment rentals using the same phone # and different properties within the first couple of pages on google.
----------
http://www.holiday4you.de/sucherg-4081-11-0.htm at 133 W 45th st, 10036 New York (Manhattan), Tel.: 646-233-3041
----------
"I bet a trial will convince you. Contact Name Richard or Michael - Owner Contact Email Send an Email Inquiry Contact Phone 646-233-3041 ..."
-----------------

"United States, New York, New York City. The apartment is a two bedroom apartment located in the best part of NYC, to aid your vacation experience and enjoyment. 646-233-3041. For Rent. Posted: Jun 15 2007 / Expires: Dec 31 2008 "
----------
http://www.homeandhosed.com/preview.aspx?id=256

You will need to write this one off. I hope you can find another place.

Deb

magnumholmes,

This really saddens me that you were scammed in this way. It especially saddens me because I remember your lengthy thread last year when you began your search for an apartment in Manhattan and many regular NYC Fodorites posted warnings about scams such as these and included inexpensive options. If you return to your 2008 thread on this subject, you may still find some of the suggestions there as affordable solutions to your predicament.

I'm sorry for any financial loss you may experience.

For other posters who may still consider short-term apartment rentals in Manhattan: we are not kidding when we warn against such "deals."

Yes, google the number, and you will see that it has been used for MANY scams as has the name "Jennifer Bush". At least you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you are not alone -- this is a real professional operation.

By the way, googling any phone number you don't know before responding is a very eye-opening experience.

Oh no. I just read the OP's original thread where several posters warned him that this was most likely a scam. Frankly, it had scam written all over it.

Sorry this happened to you but I'm not sure why you would come here asking for advice and then ignore everything people tell you. Please be smart about this and if you still end up coming to NYC, rent a hotel room at a legitimate place.

If such scams are so commonplace in New York city, why have the authorities - city, county, state, federal - not done something about it?

Or is protecting the average citizen just too boring to do?

The address is a school in Chelsea.

oops it's not a school, but it looks like the bldg was being renovated at the time of the google map photo.

In the mean time, I think you have to scramble to find something else. Check out places in queens (Long Island City) or Brooklyn (downtown B'lyn). Those locations are a pretty quick subway ride. Locations like JFK, Meadowlands, Newark Airport and Long Island aren't that convenient.

Plug your dates in Kayak.com and see what you can find. Manhattan may be outside your budget (especially considering this possible loss).

In any case, keep following threw with some of the suggestions here (with Craiglist, Better Business Bureau, etc) but I doubt you'll ever see that rental.

I appreciate all of the advice and criticism. I deserve the criticism, but I did not post on here for just me.

You guys are much better at this than me, obviously.

All I was trying to do is find something in a decent location (still a little leery of taking the subway in NYC) within walking distance of just about everything and still within our budget. Obviously I made a mistake. That sucks for me. I just hope somebody else will be smarter than me in the future.

Still, I appreciate all of the input. I don't want you to necessarily feel pity for me. I didn't heed the advice of others and I paid for it.

I will do my best to research better, read and comprehend better the next time.

As for the MoneyGram, I really don't remember the date, but it was definitely before summer started. I know I have a copy of it somewhere here, but what good would it do?

As for Wyatt92, I appreciate your input,. too. And unlike our current Pres., I have thick skin. I can take a few jabs. I know now I screwed up. If you had read my ealrier posts last year, we don't much like staying in hotels/motels anymore and hostles are definitely out (hence wanting to get an apartment/condo). But it looks like we will have to stay in a hotel/motel this time.

When we were in Manhattan for one night in March of 2008, we stayed at a Hotel on Murray Hill and the walk to Times Square and other locations wasn't bad at all. It's not a bad price, either, for what we want (just want access to some things Hotels/Motels do not offer). I have to look it up again to find the specific name.

Again, thanks for the input.

Subways are fine. I wouldn't recommend riding them alone at 3am, but for the most part, they are perfectly fine.

Was the Park South hotel the place in Murray Hill you're thinking of. It's is good value, good location.

magnus, glad to hear you've a thick skin, b/c after your original skin, you deserve to be flogged. all meant with a smile of course.

I wish you luck in this endeavour. I'm guessing you have flights booked ? Instead of staying in NYC the entire time, could you stay mid-town a few days and then somewhere else inexpensive to average out the costs ?

I, too, much prefer condos/apartments to hotels - b/c we are usually traveling with kids. Unfortunately, NYC (and London I'm finding out) aren't conducive to condos/apartments. We're trying to decide how to manage next spring in London for a few days, too... that same conundrum!

good luck

I'm sorry you had this experience, but I do want to say that I rented an apartment on Craigslist last year on the Upper West Side. It was very nice and reasonable and I have been in communication with the owner this year as well. Because it is so nice, it is often booked far in advance. This apt. is legitimate and, if you want to query the owner, email me at aol.com and I'll send you his email. I have had many good experiences house swapping on Craigslist as well, so I just wanted to put in one positive note for those of us who still believe it works.

The Milburn on 76th and Broadway is a very good place to stay if you need a hotel.

I don't know what the Obama comment had to do with anything, but the subway in New York is nothing to be afraid of (after this ordeal, I'd think it would seem a piece of cake!). I wouldn't make my first trip during rush hour, but otherwise it's a perfectly manageable and safe system.

(aside to surfmom - have you searched or posted on the Europe board about apartments in London? There are tons of posts over there with suggestions.)

so sorry for the hijack.

jent, thanks for the ideas... we are only in London 3 nights... many apartments prefer longer although I've seen some that accept bookings that short. The real issue is would we rather stay in a Marriott property for free (using points), but would require 2 rooms (which aren't <i> guaranteed </i> to be connecting... The Citadines in Trafalgar Square has 2 bedroom apartments with kitchens and we could stay there for Lb240/night. After our 3rd night, we go to Paris for a week in an apartment...

decisions decisions decisions

magnumholmes,

On your last visit, you stayed at the Murray Hill Inn on East 30th Street. (I remember this because it is on the same block as my office. I had been interested to hear of your experiences there and appreciated when you posted your trip report.)

Just an FYI about money transfers--

Western Union and MoneyGram are two different companies.

MoneyGram offers two options for picking up money: (1) Recipient has to show a photo ID, like a driver's license or passport. Agent usually records the details. (2) Recipient has to answer a sender-supplied security question. This option is used, for example, if the recipient has lost his wallet or had it stolen and needs money but has no ID, and is legitimate in such cases. However, NEVER USE THIS OPTION WHEN SENDING MONEY TO SOMEONE YOU DO NOT KNOW PERSONALLY!

I am not sure whether Western Union offers option (2) above.

OP could call MoneyGram and ask if they still have the info on file from the money pick-up (you will need your receipt, and you might end up having to call the exact pick-up location - but you should be able to get that info from MoneyGram's 800 number or even the place from which you sent it originally). Depending on how long they keep records (especially as it has been several months), they might not have that info any longer, though.

Also. if the recipient used a fake ID to pick up the money - while seems likely in this case - then even if MoneyGram still has the info it might prove useless.

In the late 90s I worked at a place that did money transfers - could be very interesting at times!

Thanks cranachin. I will try to do that. Good info.

Thanks again for the on-topic replies.

They always help. And believe it or not I do weigh them before usually making decisions.

Appreciate all of ur help.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Think of it this way: you are a trusting person.

I wonder if it would be over-reacting to contact the police? Couldn't this be considered theft? If it were me, I'd give it a try. It certainly can't hurt...the worst that will happen is they will tell you there's nothing they can do.

I hope you did what was advised on the link yk posted:

Who should I notify about fraud or scam attempts?
FTC toll free hotline: 877-FTC-HELP (877-382-4357)
FTC online complaint form
Canadian PhoneBusters hotline: 888-495-8501
Competition Bureau Canada: 800-348-5358
Internet Fraud Complaint Center
Software Piracy (http://www.siia.net/piracy/report.asp)
Non-emergency number for your local police department.
If you suspect that an item posted for sale on craigslist may be part of a scam, please email the details to "[email protected]". Be sure to include the URL (or 10-digit post ID number) in your message.

Authorities can do noting without a complaint. They don;t search Craig's list to see which are scams - it's up to the buyer to sort that out. And no - NYC police will not deal with an issue like this - they have real criminals and potential terrorists to deal with. This is a civil matter.

The OP can certainly contact Craig's list, the NYC Better Business Bureau and the NYS Attorney general and provide the name and phone number of the scammer. The only way to get your money back would be to identify the person (Craig's list may give you info if you tell them you are pursuing a law suit) and file in small claims court.

If you plan on actually coming to NYC do get other accommodation immediately - and be sure you use a legitimate source. But $500 for 5 nights that time of year is not going to happen - it's simply more expensive that that (that should have been your first clue that it wasn;t legitimate).

I have looked at several discount web sites and the only hotels in your price range are situated either at one of the airports (with a trip of an hour or more to get into the city - assuming they have shuttles to the airport - you would have to check) or "hotels" that are typically used to house homeless families in very downscale areas far outside Manhattan.

I'm afraid you're going to have to either significantly increase your budget (about $200 per night seems the least at a real, decent hotel) or come at another time of year (Jan and Feb are much cheaper).

Even though that telephone number you described is an unlisted number, it is a land-line, which might make it easier to locate the culprit. Good luck!

ok, I think I missed this part - what dates are you looking at and how many adults/kids are traveling? $500 for 5 nights is unrealistic, and this is coming from a person who is adamant about hunting down the best value for her money when booking a NYC hotel room! Please provide (or re-provide) the info and let's find you a decent room!

P.S. subway travel is fine, use your head, and pay attention to what direction on are going (uptown/downtown) and you’ll be fine!