How many people really pay rack rates?
 

We never pay rack rates when we travel. How many people out there do you think actually pay these rates? People who don't travel often or people who are not internet savvy might not know enough to look for great deals. Sometimes we search and book but then change our plans if something better comes along.

I've never paid rack rates, although my husband does all the time since his secretary makes the reservations and could care less about shopping around. I'm always amazed by what he pays for a Hyatt or Westin. <BR><BR>Companies could save a fourtune by employing someone like me, who knows her way around a discount hotel site, to do their bookings for them, it would pay a nice salary and then some! Hey, I'd work on 50% of the difference in savings alone, and still make out like a bandit! Now there's an idea....

Nina, most companies do have a that person you want to be. They are called the "In House Travel Agent". Your husband either works for a small company or doesn't go through the agency.

It's a division of a large company, but I think she just calls the hotels direct and asks for the corporate rate. Back when I worked for Xerox, I used their in-house agency (we had to), and found their rates very high, especially for airline tickets! Maybe if those agents worked on commission they'd try harder!

Nina, rack rate and corporate rate aren't the same thing. At most hotels, corporate rate is lower than rack although it's often not the lowest available.

... but many of the reservations we make come with cancellation fees, and most buisness traveler's schedules change all the time (and at the last minute), so by booking at a higher rate they are often (not always) given more flexibility in their ability to cancel.

I know that, but corporate rates seem to be barely 5% less than rack rates. Sometimes they are exactly the same as rack rates. Hotels don't seem to give the corporate discounts they used to.

Often many companies have a special travel agency that handles their business, if they don't have an in-house agent, and those agents do know how to get good hotel rates. Corporate rates are not the same as rack rate, and business travel does not have the same requirements as leisure. It often has to be booked on certain dates and convenience to meetings or facilities is important, and it often must be booked at the last minute. Most large companies are not really that stupid that they are throwing away a lot of money on travel. Companies that use one particular hotel frequently, such as where they have a facility or branch, often have a special rate set up for their firm.<BR><BR>Also, those are business expenses, and depending on the business can often be charged to a client, so it is not productive to stick your employees in terrible hotels, or get them the worst rooms or inconvenient locations to save a few dollars. It's also not a good way to retain good employees.

Nina, the only reason that the hotels can afford to provide you the lower rates for your personal travel is because the corporations are willing to pay a higher rate. So if you went to work for the corporations, you'd just wind up ultimately hiking up the vacationer's rates. You're not as bright as you obviously think you are about these things.

jjj, Why so grouchy? I know that businesses subsidize hotels, airlines, etc., but if it were MY company, I wouldn't care about the vacationer's travel dollars, now would I?

Business travelers need a lot of flexible to change or cancel travel plans. Using a discount hotel site may not be a good idea if there are penalties for changes/cancellations.

Oops, I meant 'flexibility'

I give up. What is a rack rate and I want it!

Oh Ignorant One: Rack rates are the highest published rates a hotel has.

I work in revenue management at a Four Seasons hotel. Prior to Four Seasons, I worked at a Marriott brand and before that, a Hilton.<BR>Most of the perceptions here are incorrect.<BR>Many hotels manage inventory much like airlines. Our peak travel days are midweek so the rates increase. If you display leisure travel patterns in your booking you may be offered a great discount. My hotel is busiest Tues/Weds/Thurs night. You would find it very difficult to get a rate lower than 300/night unless you had a negotiated rate. My top corporate accounts are paying negotiated rates of 150-199/night during these peak days.<BR>If you are vacationing, arriving on Friday or Saturday and staying 4 days... even a week, you will get a break because you are bringing money into the hotel on low occupancy days.<BR>It's sort of like buying an airline ticket for a Tues/Weds business trip.<BR>The ticket will probably cost 4x what a trip that includes a Saturday night stay would cost.<BR>The only time our rack rates sell is when the city is extremely busy... think Mardi Gras or the US Open.<BR>Our corporate rates are about 10% less than rack, our "agency" rates (Amex) are about 10% below corporate and our negotiated rates begin at 10% below agency rates.<BR>Agency and negotiated rates are protected, and are available until the hotel sells out.<BR>Weekend and promotional rates are generally offered during LOW occupancy days and can be turned on and off at any time.<BR>Corporate travel departments/agencies typically save the corporation a significant amount. There have been many industry studies comapring agency secured "Average Daily Rates or ADR" to self secured discounted ADR.<BR>Corporations are smart enough to test the performance of their travel agency... some of these companies spend over 100 million a year on lodging.<BR>

ttt

xxx, Does the Four Seasons even discount? I only ask this because my brother in law was organizing a Bar association meeting in NY last year and the 4S was his first pick. He called to negotiate a discounted rate and was told "Sir, we are the Four Seasons, we do not discount". We were actually laughing about it. They wouldn't budge on the price, even though he needed several hundred rooms. I think he ended up booking at the NY Palace.

Groups and meetings are a different game all together.<BR>Certainly most, if not all Four Seasons offer discounted rates to select customers. I am quite shocked that they said "Sir, we are the Four Seasons, we do not discount". <BR>That's not how we are trained... and to be quite honest, most hotels are no longer in the position to be so snobbish.

We couldn't believe it either, this was pre 9/11 though. But then again, my BIL might have sounded obnoxious to begin with, that wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility..

Being that I am in the hotel biz (group sales), I can truthfully say that NO hotel whatsoever will tell a meeting planner that they do not discount rooms. I would have your brother call the 4 Seasons headquarters and report this. Someone is costing the company hundreds of thousands of dollars. Also, NYC occupancy rates were going soft before September 11th.

Is it possible Brother isn't relaying the exchange "quite" as it happened? That lingo doesn't fly at any hotel, and certainly not 4S.

I agree.

Well he's not a meeting planner, he's a high profile family (divorce) law attorney who can be demanding. That may have been part of the problem ;&gt;!

Nina sounds a little demanding herself.

Nina, it he's planning the meeting, he is the meeting planner. I'm sure being that it is an association, there were several board members planning it.

OK Bonita, whatever you say. I get sick of argueing on this board, but I'm sure you know how all associations operate. Just in case you might be wrong, the Family Law group appoints a member to be responsible for picking the hotel, location and catering. They take turns.<BR><BR>So true X, I am demanding. Now go away and leave me alone. No - wait, go get me a drink, then go away and leave me alone!

X - My drink! I'M WAITING!

You tell'em Nina. And not that you need rescuing or a defense team, but why all the flack for Nina? She's a straight shooter, tell's it like it is. She's not rude about it.<BR><BR>Mean people suck.

ooops. That should have been "tells" not "tell's".<BR><BR>And I'll have a drink too. Garcon???!!!??

It's so refreshing to read posts from people that actually WORK in the biz. Too many people make assumptions about how the travel industry works and most of the time they are dead wrong. <BR><BR>Nina, you do sound demanding. Commissions have nothing to do with hotel rates. Hotels decide the price not travel agents. If you're looking for a property like a Hyatt or a Westin, then they will be competitive in rates. Do you work? Why not let your hubby's secretary have a break and YOU find those elusive great rates. I think XXX explained a great deal, it's never black and white.

nina doesn't suck-that's why her husband spends so much time with his secretary-lol

Nina, I do work strictly with associations. They are my clients. As I stated earlier, I am in group sales with a large hotel. In hotel speak, the meeting planner is the person planning the meeting whether he is an attorney, doctor or Indian Cheif appointed or not.

ttt

Shoot - some of you people make me feel really good! We're on our way to a Bourbon St. room in New Orleans that was $285 a night when we originally made our reservations in January. After doing "homework" all year long, I got the rate down to $135 a night. We're now ready to go and my husband's b**t has unpuckered since the cost was so much more reasonable and we're planning on BUNCHES of fun!!

Interestingly, the Matrimonial (misnomer as they are "divorce" atty's) Lawyers Assn of FL has had their annual meeting at my husband's hotel each year since we've been here. The "meeting planner" every year has been the same individual-the wife of one of the local "matrimonial" lawyers. She is the meeting planner in every sense, from pre con to arranging meeting space, planning food etc and gets the perks in the form of a nice suite with extra attention to every detail when the group arrives. Aside from this one time during the year, she's more into team tennis than anything else. So...Nina, bone up on how it's done, then go for it! <BR><BR>I do think, however, that your b-i-l distorted (what, an atty??) what actually occurred during his negotiations. I can't imagine a hotel anywhere turning down a booking of several hundred room nights, insisting on rack rate. That's just not going to happen...or if it did, you have a Director of Sales and a sales manager who are out looking for new positions!

Yeah, that story doesn't ring true. I just love it when people assume something after hearing only one-side. Nina's bro-in-law must be a real pill!

I find it very interesting how Nina always seems to get a thread off track and focused on herself, but she is very good at pushing buttons and I have to admit this time mine has been pushed. I am a professional meeting planner with well over ten year’s experience with both associations and corporations. If Nina thinks its just about getting hotel rooms at a cheap rate she’s sadly misinformed. Along with negotiating for room rates, there are meeting rooms, audio/visual equipment, menus, VIP requests, etc., etc., etc.<BR><BR>There is also the aspect of actually planning and running the event, be it a small corporate retreat or a large conference. This can include staying up until 3:00 am photocopying a speakers notes to hand out to delegates the next day and then having to be cheerful when told that the venue hasn’t got enough staff to turn over the breakfast dining room for a general session that is scheduled to take place in two hours (really happened).<BR><BR>Having said that, I did once have a lawyer for a client and he was most outrageous in his demands of the venue, going so far as to not want a penalty for outright cancellation at the last minute. Basically, leave the job to the professionals.<BR>

Wow! All the meanies were out last night! <BR><BR>First of all, Olive, glad you backed me up that "lay people" do in fact plan the meetings for groups like the matrimonial lawyers. Perhaps they would be better off hiring a professional, but frankly lots of them are so narcissistic they always think they can do everything better themselves.<BR><BR>Secondly, I do work - occasionally. I do IT consulting about 8 days per month. And why would I want to work for my husband's company? I look for low rates for personal travel for my family and vacations, not business travel so I'm not sure why I would want to give my husband's secretary a break. Should I do her typing too?<BR><BR>And Lenore, for the purpose of this thread, and forum, it is all about getting the cheapest rate. I don't think many of us need AV equipment or conference rooms for our personal travel. But then again, I could be wrong and I'm sure you'll let me lnow that I am.<BR><BR>And X, I'm very thirsty, have you forgotten about me?

What is the best way to NOT pay rack rates?

Good Call Lenore, Nina I suggest posting under other names, that way what you are trying to do with the threads is not so obvious.<BR><BR>I wish I could get the corprate rate my boss gets when not traveling midweek. I pay rack rates when nothing else is available and I want a certain hotel. I think you often get problems when you book the lowest possible rate in a hotel. I have experienced this, I usually select second to bottom rate.<BR><BR><BR>