How do we all like the new site format?
 

For someone who likes to check in a few times a day, there's a lot of clicking to do, but I think it's great. How about you?

I know that many people suggested breaking Hawaii, Florida, & California out into their own subjects because there were supposedly too many posts in the regular U.S. forum devoted to those states. I never quite understood that argument though, because it was easy enough to page down through all the posts, in my opinion. Now we're left with the bizarre circumstance where if someone searches the U.S. forum for posts on "Hawaii," they come up with zero. <BR> <BR>Whatever. I guess it's fine. The former "Forums" became the "Travel Lounge" and are now "Travel Talk." What will it be next month? <BR> <BR>Sorry, I'm a little grumpy today.

I'm with Grumpy...

Love it, although I vote that Nevada should get its own area too. Las Vegas, DisneyWorld and Hawaii are huge vacation destinations and not surprisingly, tend to attract the largest number of travel agents who like to "stack the deck" with all their "helpful" posts. They can all go pitch and promote and post phony questions on their very own threads now, and leave the REAL travelers and REAL travel questions alone.

I'm with Grumpy, too. Except that Hawaii posts can now be in the US forum *or* the Hawaii one (or both, if the poster wants to post twice). There's nothing to make clear that "US" is intended to be "the rest of the US" (other than California, Hawaii, and Florida). Similarly for Europe: if I want to look at posts re Italy I now have to go to the Italy forum and the Europe one. This is not logical.

Is it possible that I'm the only one whose computer is freezing on the new format?

Too many forum choices. And I think "travel talk" is demeaning. I;d rather hang around the lounge.

I am with Grumpy! And what's up with the advertising on the Travel Talk home?

I miss the information on bed and breakfasts and historic places to stay. It would be appreciated if you could set up a section for them like you had two updates ago.

Fodors, listen up: "If it's not broken <BR>don't fix it!" It was fine the way it was and the time before that it was fine too. So, please, once we get used to this one, just leave it alone. OK?

I think the earlier posts nailed it...we now have advertisements...and it takes even longer to log on... <BR> <BR>Oh, well. Nothing's free... <BR> <BR>(Jeez, I just got used to going to the right side, now I've got to go to the left side...my life is complicated...)

I liked the fact everyone was in the same place before. I'm generally interested in the northern california threads, as I spend a lot of time there. Now I have to make a special effort - in fact, until reading this I didn't realize they'd been lopped off this branch. Basically the old site was better. <BR>

Now I will have to check Hawaii under "Hawaii" and "United Staes."

I don't like it at all. Breaking up "topics" into 8 pieces makes it difficult and was just unnecessary. There weren't many posts on that forum anyway. <BR> <BR>The problem was with the Europe forum on which most general topics were posted.

<BR>I've used adsubtract.com for a while now to eliminate most ads from pages. For the most part, it works very well and speeds up home-modem-speed pages. [had some problems with Napster, though, so I just remove it from the proxy settings when I'm there] <BR> <BR>I like the new home page of Fodors, but wish all travel 'talk' in the US was not separated <BR> <BR>A suggestion (publicly) to Fodors. Append a portion of the posters IP address to each post. <BR> <BR>Example: my posts would say Author GOL ([email protected] 123.456) Date 9/19/00, 9:16am (or whatever). The 123.456 will be a portion of my IP address, which will tell others out there that I posted it. It won't tell my name or even my ISP (which may tell my location). But,it will be able to tell others in the community if I (or someone else) post many different items with different aliases, shill or useless posts. Without getting into a technical discussion, if the IP is objectionable, the Fodors system admins would be able to assign a unique code to posting authors that would have the same effect. <BR> <BR>I have seen this scheme applied to a Yellowstone chat site, where, like Fodors, registration, name and e-mail addresses are optional/fictional. It eliminated the "Anyone know of a good hotel" post which was answered by the same person using an alias (suggesting their resort was terrific). <BR> <BR>This isn't a perfect solution, as there are ways to get around this, but I believe it would work of a majority the postings. <BR> <BR>Fodors, what do you think? <BR>

Why Alaska wasn't separated or New York? I live in those two states and now I feel like a second class citizen. Too much clicking and I can't find a post on tipping I read two or three weeks ago.

Personally I was hoping this new format would keep REAL travel topics together and the other NON travel b.s. somewhere else. I posted a topic yesterday and this morning I had to scan past posts about hot dogs, toilets, new format, printing problems, etc. before I found my post. And actually this was an improvement to the usual posts of people bashing other people, the long post about the morality of unmarried people taking trips together, kids, etc. Sure, you could say these are somehow travel related but I don't think that was the intent of this forum. If these useless, trivial, bashing posts could be put in another category ("special interests") it would keep the main parts free for REAL travel information! <BR>

what is the address of the new site to see the new format please? I've gone to fodors.com and it looks the same. Any particular area I should click on?

Well, I'm addicted to this site, but I can't say that I like the new format--you have to check too many places, including ones that the new logic of the site dictated that do not have any posts. And will this be maintained, or will I still have to look everywhere to be sure I see the new posts? I didn't think scrolling through all the posts was so onerous, whereas this new format IS if you want to see everything new.

Hello All! Thanks for chiming in on what you think of our latest fine-tuning of the site. <BR> <BR>To 'lisa,' 'sneezy,' 'bashful,' 'GOL,' and 'terri': We split off the most popular threads from the Europe and US forums so those destinations could be presented in a more organized manner: it was something many Fodorites specifically asked for when we re-designed earlier this year (and if any of you are out there, feel free to jump in and back me up here!). Also, it should make searches less time consuming. <BR> <BR>Currently, we're in the admittedly tedious process of sorting thousands of previous posts into their appropriate categories, but we believe it's worth the effort. I know it'll take some getting used to, but our hope is that visitors will see from how we've presented the new sub-categories that threads about California will be found in the California forum and not the United States forum. <BR> <BR>Same thing with the new Topics forums that appear after the destinations on the Travel Talk home page. The former Smart Travel Tips forum became too general to be of much organizational use, so we analyzed the threads in it and came up with a master list of Topics that most of them could be placed under. As 'terri' pointed out, visitors often talk about things not directly related to travel, so with Topics we gave them an area where they can talk about everything from the price of gas to portable curling irons. Again, we believe that after a short period of adjustment visitors will get the hang of it. <BR> <BR>To 'good' and 'me': We constantly track what Fodorites are talking about and try to design the site to accommodate the content---thanks for your suggestions about spinning other areas off into their own forums. We'll continue to analyze which destinations warrant their own forums and make tweaks here and there as they become necessary. <BR> <BR>We love your feedback and use it as a gauge of how well we are doing. The irony is that if the forums weren't so popular we probably wouldn't have to find new ways to better maintain them. But if you all do your job of sharing your thoughts, ideas, and advice with one another, you force us to do ours. <BR> <BR>So everybody back to work! <BR> <BR>Regards, <BR>Dave Downing <BR>Community Coordinator <BR>fodors.com

I think you're going to lose a lot of attention to the forums that are named in the lower part of the "travel talk home" screen -- for me that means everything below "budget travel." <BR> <BR>Hate the ads. Understand the economics but hate the ads.

I can't see the ads because I too have a little ad-blocking program on my computer, called the Ad Terminator. Here's the URL: <BR> <BR>http://www.ledgerlabs.com/adterminator/ <BR> <BR>Download this, install and kiss those time-consuming third-party ad servers goodbye!

Dave, <BR>Thanks for the response. It's my first time seeing a Fodors person discuss the forum. More questions, if you don't mind. <BR> <BR>1. Does Fodors post topics or questions to spurn discussion / do Fodors employees post new topics or questions? If so, what is the regularity and concept behind these. <BR> <BR>2. Can you comment on my IP-as-way-to-identify suggestion? <BR> <BR>3. Can you add a section for National Parks and/or Outdoor activities. <BR> <BR>4. Can you add an "all" US category that includes all sub categories (United States, Calif., Fla, etc..) so we can see all (US) posts if we want to? <BR> <BR>5. Is there any possibility (done, in progress or planned) to publish (electronic or print) any content from our posts? For example, will a hot tip from tweedy (for example) make its way into one of your Fodors guides? If so, can we explicitly request that our posts not be used in other published materials. <BR> <BR>Thanks <BR>If you want One-One feedback / Q&A, I'll write you with my e-mail address. <BR> <BR>

The new categories should make it more convenient to target those interested in general topics, such as political unrest <BR>in Europe, social issues, cultural attitudes, etc. Unfortunately, at least in the Europe forum, it has become annoyingly predictable that one or two individuals will express outrage whenever a general subject is introduced. Apparently, they would like to see this forum limited to questions regarding restaurants in Cleveland. Yet, if this forum were limited to routine factual matters, such as hotel recommendations, many of us would not be motivated to participate. <BR> <BR>With this last point in mind, my one concern about the new format is that as the forums become more fragmented, it will become more common to miss topics or questions that one would be able and willing to contribute. Someone closely watching the Special Interest forum will be unaware that someone in the Europe forum is asking about a hotel in Brussels that they recently stayed at.

Hello Grumpy, Sneezy, Wheezy, and everyone else! <BR> <BR>Thanks for your feedback about the changes to our forums. You've brought up several interesting points. Our community editor, David Downing, has addressed some of them in his post, above. Below are a few additional thoughts. <BR> <BR>1. Some of the changes to the site, including the addition of new forums, have to do with the significant increase in traffic we're expecting this fall. We wanted to ensure that with more people using the forums it remained reasonably easy to access information about particular destinations/themes. <BR> <BR>2. Re the name switches (Forums&gt;Travel Lounge&gt;Travel Talk), we changed the name of Forums to Travel Lounge because the latter sounded friendlier than the former. But some new users couldn't figure out what might be going on in a travel lounge (and a few who did have an idea, weren't sure they wanted to participate). Several gurus of Web usability have decreed that the name of a site section should always state precisely what it contains. We felt we were somewhat deficient on that score, so we tried to be more specific. <BR> <BR>3. Of course, many of those same gurus also decree that the names of site sections shouldn't change from month to month. So, we promise unto Lisa (a.k.a., Grumpy), Mike, and Doc that we won't change the name again. (To Doc: I'm not sure what's demeaning about "travel talk," but I'm with you: I'd rather hang around the lounge.) <BR> <BR>4. As for the advertisements, the answer, as several of you have surmised, is quite simple: We do have a few bills to pay to put this site online. Not surprisingly, many of our advertisers sell travel-related products, which we hope you'll find helpful, along with the nontravel messages. <BR> <BR>5. To "B": One of the additions to the site this week was our link to BedandBreakfast.com, which provides worldwide listings. There are links to BedandBreakfast.com in the left margins of all Miniguides pages, the hotel and restaurant indexes, and the Resources page. You'll find just about every place that was listed in our old Bed and Breakfast Finder -- plus thousands more (there are listings for 24,000-plus B&Bs). You can reserve a room at some of the B&Bs, and there are links to the Web sites of many properties. <BR> <BR>6. To Charles: The techies have all gone home, so I can't tell you why it's not there, but there's supposed to be a general thread for California, where discussion of the entire state or large regions can take place. I'll make sure it's available as soon as possible. <BR> <BR>7. To Lisa ([email protected]): Thank you for asking your question. At least the transition was seamless for someone! <BR> <BR>8. To all: Keep your comments coming. Thanks for the advice, and please continue to enjoy the site. <BR> <BR>Yours truly, <BR> <BR> <BR>Danny Mangin <BR>Editorial Director <BR>Fodors.com <BR> <BR> <BR>

Does everyone feel that separating "Topics" into 10 categories is helpful?

Thank you so much, Fodors, for separating some of the busier sites. It was getting pretty tiresome scrolling past so many Hawaii posts (for example) when there's no way I'm going to be going there for a long time. I think this change just makes sense, and I appreciate your doing it.

I'm cool with the new layout. Is everyone that change resistant. The junkies among us are all going to have to "shop around" a little more to catch every last new post, but I think Fodors' is right because people who are looking for exact information won't have to wade through so much stuff. <BR> <BR>Change is good.

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Fodors: <BR>If you're reading this, please accept the fact that not everyone will like everything you do. Having said that, let me add that I'm not crazy about your new format. What I would have liked to have seen was a "special" place for people to post their questions, comments, insights, etc. about hot dogs, trolls, travelling with celebrities, etc. (call it a "Special Interest" Forum) and leave the "true" travel stuff where's it's always been. And now if I want to look at Florida or California, I have to go to BOTH the U S forum AND the Fla and CA forums. Dang, that's a lot of clicking my mouse. But still, you have provided us with a great source of travel info!!!

Hey, I'm not THAT grumpy! <BR> <BR>Thanks Fodors for your replies. The main point I was trying to make was the one that Steve Mueller made (he made it better than I did). <BR> <BR>The site is still great though.

Dear Captain Kirk -- <BR> <BR>We've *definitely* accepted the fact that not everyone will thrill to every change we make. The main reason: The advice we get on any given topic (from our monitoring of forums to how they are arranged) generally covers the entire spectrum of possibilities. At some point we have to choose a course of action (or decide to keep things as they are). We just hope that we please well more than 50 percent of our users and don't drive the remaining folks crazy. <BR> <BR>As for your California/Florida problem, we're still making a couple of adjustments, but as I understand things, you'll shortly find all your California/Florida posts *only* in the California or Florida forums. <BR> <BR>More later…and thanks again to all for the comments. <BR> <BR>Danny Mangin <BR>Editorial Director <BR>Fodors.com <BR>

I second the idea that the subcategories would be ok if the main categories contained all the posts in the subcategories. I'm afraid that all this splitting into different categories will lessen the feedback. I know that I will often scroll through the US or Europe sections to see if there are any questions asking for advice that I might be able to offer. I live in the DC area, have traveled around this country and in Ireland, France, Italy and Spain. It's highly unlikely that I will check each of the individual categories that I would have to in order to respond to questions about all these areas. I suspect others will have the same reaction.

Hello again. Glad to see positive feedback, too! I just wanted to answer a few more questions of yours. <BR> <BR>To 'GOL': The only place that we, as editors of fodors.com, post our questions is the Grab Bag on the Travel Talk home page under the Hot Threads. We choose a new question each week merely as a conversation starter, then transfer the thread to the Grab Bag forum area under Topics. (This week it's "Do you take your cell phone on vacation with you?") <BR> <BR>2. Regarding your IP identification suggestion, I'm not sure about the technical aspects of it or the privacy issues involved, but it's worth looking into. As for your queries regarding publication of forum posts, see our Subscriber's Agreement (fodors.com/about/subagree/) for the particulars outlined there. <BR> <BR>3. We do have both a National Parks and a Sports and Adventure section---they're listed under Resources on the left hand side of the home page. If you mean a Forum area, we have that, too: The Special Interest forum under Topics on the Travel Talk home page. When you post your message, you can choose either category as a subject of your posting. <BR> <BR>4. Regarding the ability to see all the US posts at once: Again, we're looking into the feasibility of that one. <BR> <BR>Thanks to all for your input. <BR> <BR>Regards, <BR>Dave Downing <BR>Community Coordinator <BR>Fodors.com <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

O.K., what would be the point of combining all the U.S. threads AND having separate categories? You're right back where you started, which is a U.S. forum clogged and overwhelmed with posts about Hawaii, WDW and Vegas. I thought the whole point of splitting off categories was to give high volume destinations their own links here? Do you really think that anyone will visit the subcategories when what they want is on the main category again? Please keep it the way it is....it is sooooooo nice to finally log onto the U.S. forum without having to scroll through 48 posts about Hawaii every day.

Regarding the B&B listing; I personally preferred reading Fodor's opinion and write up of these B&Bs instead of reading a generic write up either by the owners themselves or someone writing for a B&B listing site. I still like it best how you had it before - please consider bringing back YOUR B&B writeups.

How can I put this politely? I don't care to have California and Florida split off (although splitting off Hawaii did make sense). I also don't like the idea of subcategories like "etiquette" and "travel agents", so I'm not feeling too positive about the new format. <BR> <BR>Personally, I occasionally have something to contribute on Cal and Fla based on my experiences there. If I see a question I can answer, I answer it. But I also have a life. So I really can't go clicking all over the place on the off chance there will be a Cal or Fla question in need of a reply. Therefore, I doubt I will visit the Cal/Fla/Hawaii subsites unless I have a question of my own to pose. <BR> <BR>Also, I am not inclined to click on all of the interesting little subcategories. My personal view of the forum/lounge/talk is that many people come here for a few minutes of entertainment and they answer hard-core travel questions while they are here. Separating the categories means that people seeking entertainment will find it someplace other than the main travel categories, so they may not frequent the main categories as much. I think the end result will be less fun and less sharing of travel information. Too bad. <BR>

Very well said, Cindy. I am finding the entertainment value of the site to be considerably lower. All the topic headings are just too much, and even if you click through all of them, you see nothing at all, or nothing new for two days. I am finding I spend less time here, and only looking at main US and Latin America--just too much time to look at everything else to see what's new.

Agree entirely with Cindy. I've already noticed the difference on what I do here. In fact I spend less time overall as I haven't the time to go clicking around for ca and fl , both areas I have a great deal of experience with. Well as was stated earlier you didn't expect to please everyone. But for me this fragmentation will mean I'll most likely spend even less time here.

I'm with the last three folks starting with Cindy. Give Hawaii its own spot but keep everyone else together. This ghettoizing will reduce the number of folks giving advice on areas. You already have areas where one person dominates and this will become even more pronounced as that forum splits off from the main listings. Carried to the extreme you end up with something like Frommers message board which is totally useless as you have to click on each individual state.

Dear Fodor's editors: <BR> <BR>One question. Why are you creating all of these new categories and making unimportant little changes when the search function still does not work properly? <BR> <BR>I just tested the search function again to see if it would pick up some current active threads. Nope. This site would be greatly enhanced by a functioning search function. Shouldn't we worry about that first? <BR> <BR>