Help with plan for National Parks Southwest trip
 

This is my 1st time posting, but I have been reading and enjoying the wisdon here for a while.

My wife and I are planning a trip at the end of May 2010 to the Parks.

After scouring the postings here I have made a tenative plan but need some additional help. We are planning to rent a car when we arrive in Las Vegas and here is the plan.

Fly into Las Vegas 2nts

Zion National Parks 3nts hotel in Springdale

Bryce Canyon 2nts Bryce Canyon City

Capitol Reef Nat Pk 1 nt Torrey

Moab 3 nts

Monument Valley 1 nt

Grand Canyon 2 nts

Flagstaff area 2 nts

Fly out of Phoenix

Does this sound like a doable schedule with time to really see things in the areas we are visiting? Is the time of year okay for these places? Will the snow be gone and weather decent. I am not a cold weather person and would prefer resonable temps...50's to 80's.

We would like to see the north and south rim of the Grand Canyon. What would be the best way to approach it? Should we make a detour to the north rim between Zion and Bryce? Should we plan a night at both north and south rim?

I have heard that staying in the parks are best, but right now there are no rooms available for our dates.

None of the plans are concrete and no reservations have been made as of yet. We plan to use ff miles and they are available as of now, but I don't want to wait too long for fear they will be gone.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bill

Staying in the parks is best IMO and if they say they are full, keep calling as they get cancellations all the time and they don't always show up on the web site. You might make a refundable reservation at a hotel/motel and cancel it if one opens up in a park. Temperatures should be war in May, but Bryce and the north rim will be cooler than the others because of their elevations. There was snow on the ground one April in Bryce when we were there, but the daytime temperature was not too cold.

If you don't overnight in the park at the north rim, the drive into it is quite long and you might have to go up to Kayenta, UT to find lodging.

You might consider doing your loop in the opposite direction - starting in Phoenix and ending in Vegas to look for dates that might work better. Also check for the difference in price for the rental car and drop off charge.

Along emalloy's line of thought: you may want to compare the price of a rental car picking up and returning in Las Vegas. There's only a few hour difference between driving to Phoenix and driving to Las Vegas at the end of the trip, and it might save you quite a bit to just drive back to Vegas and fly out from there.

That would also give you a bit of flexibility now on lodging dates, as you could do the same loop in reverse starting with the Grand Canyon south rim and ending with Zion.

You don't say the exact dates but try to avoid the more popular parks on Memorial Day weekend. Zion and the Grand Canyon will be pretty busy.

However you do it, the North Rim will be out of the way. I'd try to stay overnight there if possible. Perhaps skip a night in Flagstaff in favor of a night at the North Rim.

It would also help to know what you're interested in: if you like to do easy hikes vs. more difficult hikes, photography, history, etc. If you just like to look over the edge, 2 nights at Bryce might be one too many but if you like to hike and do a horseback ride, it would be about right. Same goes for the other places.

I was in Bryce and Zion the last few days of May and start of June 2 years ago. It snowed a bit the early morning of my second day in Bryce but was all gone by 10AM. Zion was sunny and hot as it's 4,000 ft lower.

There's nothing like being inpark.

Zion, Bryce and GC lodging are all run by Xanterra. Tour companies book many rooms in the hope they'll fill there tours. Then, as time goes on (mostly the last month or so) they begin to release some.

I would call (don't bother with the web site) Xanterra every day or even twice a day for cancellations. Eventually you'll get you dates. As a backup you should book out of park until you get your dates. Ruby's at bryce, etc.

I don't know what you details are like but I would do the following.

Make sure you get up early in Bryce and get over to Bryce point for sunrise. Spectacular!!!

Between Bryce/Zion/North Rim on the way to the South Rim you have to pass Page, AZ. There are 3 sight definitely worth stopping for:
From north to South you pass a sign ("Scenic road") on the west side of the road just after crossing the bridge. That's "the best dam view". Park you car and walk down the stone steps to a viewing stand directly facing the dam. All free.

The next 2 are best when the sun is high. Down Rte 89 just below Rt98 there's a sign on the right side (set) for Horseshoe Bend. Go into the free parking lot and it's a 3/4 mile relatively flat, unshaded, hot walk to another amazing view of the Colorado making a horseshoe turn 1,000 below you. Take care as there's not fence, screen or barrier here.

On the way down Rte 89 from the best dam view you take a left turn (east) on Rte 98. Go a couple of miles toward the power station and you'll see a sign on the right right for Antelope Canyon. They charge about $6. to park the car and about $20. for the "guide"/truck ride to the Canyon. It's a pretty small canyon and flat walking inside. With the sun bouncing off the walls another amazing sight.

On the way from Bryce you can detour a couple of hours. Just east of Bryce is Canonville. You can stop in the visitors center and get instructions on how to get to Willis Creek. The ride is on a moderately hilly dirt road. However, once you park the car and start walking, you're immediately a true slot canyon. A very easy walk with some very small waterfalls as well. Do not go if there's a threat of rain.

Between Bryce and Torrey you have Escalente and the small town of Boulder. Several miles before (west) of Boulder is Lower Calf Creek Falls. It's a 2.5 mile hike on pretty flat terrain but with little shade until you get to the Falls. Another spectacular sight. The Falls fall 126 ft.

You've got 3 nights for Moab but I'm not sure how many days. I would try to do the following:
Hike to Delicate Arch to get there about an hour before sunset.
Book a place on the ranger-led Fiery Furnace hike.
See Balanced Rock right beside the road.
Go to the Windows section and walk thru the Windows, go over to turret Arch and walk thru it and then Double Arch and walk inside. They're all right near each other.
Then there are a bunch of other things there.
For part of a day go to Canyonlands NP to see Mesa Arch and a few viewpoints. Then stop in Dead Horse Pt State Park and stop at the viewpoint. We stopped at the viewpoint and then noticed further along there's a built observation deck that gives you a better view of the turn in the river.

You can see my trip photos at:

www.travelwalks.com

Hi Blyyd,

My main comments are

1. you should add one more day to Moab. I would take that day from Flagstaff if you go with the Phoenix plan.

2. End of May will already be in the 90's in Moab and could even be up to 100 in Zion. Early May is better for these two, but how it affects your plans depends on whether or not you are hikers.

I agree, stay "in park" at the historic lodges if possible. If not, at least have a meal there. Are you doing North or South rim of Grand Canyon? You might want to do a small plane flight from Moab over Canyonlands. It looks really amazing from the air and you will see a lot.

If you are adventurous try canyoneering in Moab or Zion. It's a really kicked up version of hiking.

Thanks so much for all of your replies. I never thought about the memorial day problem, but have now bumped our dates a week earlier to avoid being in Zion over Memorial Day. It also allowed me to snag a cabin at Bright Angel. Still no luck with Zion or Bryce, but I did make a reservation at Desert Pearl just outside Zion, and at the Best Western just outside Bryce. I will keep trying for the parks, but these alternatives seem to be acceptable if needed.

I planned the trip starting in Las Vegas because car rentals are much less from there, even with a drop charge.

Our friends have suggested we stay in Sedona instead of Flagstaff. Any comments or hotel suggestions?

We are looking at the View Lodge at Monument Valley. Anyone stayed there?

I'm sure I will be back with lots of other questions, but in the meantime, thanks so much everyone for your help.
Bill

I was in Sedona 2 years ago and stayed at the Best Western Inn of Sedona.

At that time it had been newly redone and had the look and feel of a new place. It very close the the "Y" and while it's very near the highway, you drive up a hill and away from the road. The main level is actually the 3rd level. If you stay there ask for rooms on that level but directly across the main office.

If you look for my trip report I list the range of room numbers. These rooms have a front door that opens to the parking lot and a back door that open on a patio with tables facing the Red Rocks. Chimney Rock.

If you do stay in Sedona make sure you go to the Crescent Moon picnic area about an hour before sunset. When you go in ask where Oak Creek is and a view of Cathedral Rock. Absolutely beautiful reflection of Cathedral Rock in the Creek as the Rock turns orange.

If you can, add Lake Powell en route to North Rim or vice versa and if you are going to Monument Valley, Canyon de Chelly in Chinle is also a good stop. A night each away from Bryce and Zion to stop by these would be worth it if you can manage to put it in your route. I agree staying in the park is best but in Zion, I actually liked staying in town better - better restaurants. Springdale is pretty much juxtaposed to the park. The Desert Pearl is a great place but for a less expensive alternative, right across the street at The Canyon Ranch Motel is quite nice (ask for the newly renovated rooms), the proprietors Mark and his wife were really the best hotel proprietors we've ever met.

I agree, Sedona is a better stop than Flagstaff although a quick lunch or dinner in flagstaff is also a nice break from the road.

maria_so --I agree that staying in Springdale is nice; and choosing between Desert Pearl and Canyon Ranch would be a really difficult decision for me. Mark and his wife are so nice, the property is lovely, and the price is right, but I absolutely love the decor of the Desert Pearl rooms and the pool area. I think a poolside room at Desert Pearl would be my first choice, with Canyon Ranch a really close second. (Just thinking about the area makes me want to plan another trip! :))

oops, that smiley is a little out of control. I meant to type just the regular one. :)

Instead of Lodge in Monument Valley consider Valley of the Gods B&B. It is just north or MV. Valley of the Gods, itself, is a mini version of MV. All within a 15 miles of each other is Valley of the Gods, Moki Dugway, Muley Point, and Goosenecks State Park. All of these are very interesting and we enjoyed them about as much as MV.

More great ideas to consider. We now have our flights booked on American through ff miles arriving Las Vegas on May 19, leaving Phoenix on June 5th. Our flight out of Phoenix is a 6am so we will most likely stay near Phoenix airport on the 4th. I am considering the Hilton Resort in Sedona. I can use Hilton points there and it seems to get good reviews. It seems to be a few miles outside Sedona, so I don't know if that would be less fun than staying right in downtown. Anyone stayed there or have another suggestion?
I am still searching and tweaking the plans, so any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Bill

How much hiking or activities do you want to do? Have you seen the GC before?
Day 1 & 2 Vegas
Day 3 Drive to North Rim, spend the night there
Day 4 maybe get a permit to hike "the wave"
Day 4 maybe Lake Powell
Day 5,6 Zion-rent gear and hike The Narrows, Angels Landing is great, but difficult
Day 7 Bryce-hike navajo loop/queens garden, horseback peekaboo
Day 8 Calf Creek Falls/ Utah HWY 12/ Capitol Reef-orchard
Day 9 Goblin Valley, Little Wildhorse Canyon(great slot)
see Deadhorse point on drive to Moab
Day 10, 11, 12 Arches, Canyonlands-consider doing a flyover in a small plane from Moab. If you are adventurous, go canyoneering(best thing I have ever done)

Day 13, 14 Monument Valley/

I personally would cut out Vegas and Flagstaff and add more time to your other stops and perhaps a visit to Mesa Verde/Durango

you could see the South Rim on the way back through. I bet you will have seen it pretty good from the North, and the view from Deadhorse Point is pretty spectacular and similar to the GC.

You might check to see when North Rim Grand Canyon opens. They have a shorter season due to higher elevation (snow) than South Rim.

Generally May 15 to Oct 15

I think the Hilton is right near the "Y". I could be wrong.

Don't expect to much from the actual town of Sedona. A few art galleries, t-shirt store and a couple of restaurants. The big attraction are the red rock views and hikes.

The town is one street to the north of the "Y", the Thalq at the "Y" and a highway with a few restaurants to the west.

Spirobulldog, Thanks for the tips. We are not really hikers, but don't mind a 1-3 miler if not too strenuous. We have never seen the Grand Canyon or been to any of these places before. I have heard that the altitude could affect our ability to do much hiking if we are not acclimated to it. How long does acclimation usually take?

If you are inexperienced, then The Wave probably isn't for you, but it would be great. Most people rate this as one of the top hikes anywhere.

If you haven't been to Vegas, then it you should spend a day or two there. I allow myself to throw away $20 and then I am furious. I just don't like to gamble. Try to catch one of the Cirque Shows, see the mall under Caesers Palace. See the Volcano @ the Mirage, See the Bellagio Fountains. 100's of places to eat in Vegas

In Page/Lake Powell- see the lake and see Rainbow Bridge.
I haven't done Antelope Canyon or Canyon X, but I am sure they are great. This is also the area where The Wave is at.
Most of these ideas would take a full day.


I have rafted the GC and have been to the South Rim 3 times. I have not seen the North Rim. I think the views would be similar, but the North Rim is less deserty(more trees and green). The south rim you could take a helicopter flight over. From the North Rim you could do a flight from Page Arizona. It just gives you a great idea of how big and deep the thing is. I would hike down a short distance into the canyon, whichever side you are on. Stay at El Tovar or Bright Angel Cabin on the South. on the north, stay @ Grand Canyon Lodge(the only lodging on the north)

In Zion, I would stay @ Zion Lodge in the park. There are some other good spots to stay at and to eat at in Springdale, which is the little town right at the entrance. I would definately hike The Narrows. You will want to rent shoes for this and maybe even a wetsuit for your lower half, or even a full suit if it is cold. Don't miss this one. One of the top hikes in a National Park. If that isn't enough, Zion also has another great hike. Angels Landing. This one is tough and requires a little mental stamina as well. It is 2.5 miles straight up and part of it you are looking down 2000 feet while on a narrow 3 foot ledge. They do provide a chain for you to hold onto. We did this in 5 hours. Even saw a Condor at the top. Both of these hikes are off the charts-spectacular. There are 2 or 3 other very nice hikes in Zion as well.

In Bryce, Navajo Loop/Queens Garden(I haven't been to Bryce, so I hate to start giving advice to somewhere I haven't even been. I think Myer spent a couple of days here last year and he has some nice photos that he might link here. Again, I would stay in the park Lodge.

The drive between Bryce and Capitol Reef is one of the best in America. Stop @ Calf Creek Falls in Route(allow 1/2 day here).

Two weeks ago I was in Capitol Reef for a weekend. Cap Reef is somewhat like Zion, but is my least favorite area that I have visited in Utah. You should stop and see the Orchard and have a homemade pie and homemade ice cream. They serve this at an Old Mormon House right in the picnic area of the orchard. You are almost guaranteed to be eating with deer. Pick some fruit and eat all you want for free, or purchase some to take with you. Hells Backbone Grill is the place to eat on Hwy 12. Cafe Diablo is the place to eat near Cap Reef.

From there, head up to Goblin Valley and spend an hour or two there. Just 3 or 4 miles from Goblin Valley is Antelope Canyon. A great slot Canyon comparible to Antelope Canyon. This one doesn't require a guide, because it isn't on an Indian Reserve. You will spend 2 or 3 hours there. It is an easy hike with a lot of people on it.

There is a section of Canyonlands, not far from here. This is known as Horseshoe Canyon and it is where The Great Gallery is at. It is the best Pictograph/Petroglyph. Everything else is compared to this panel. Moderate hike through a canyon. This is about 2 miles from where the guy had to amputate his own arm a few years back. He was in a slot canyon, no chance of getting hurt here, there are people on this trail every day. It requires driving a dirt road for about an hour to get to it. The hike takes 4-5 hours.

From there head to Moab, stop at Deadhorse Point on the way. This is similar to Grand Canyon View, but don't miss it.
Arches- Don't miss Delicate Arch, Don't miss Devils Garden Trail. Both of these are a little tough, but certainly doable by most people. Don't miss- Balanced Rock, Double Arch, and The Windows.

Now, the very best thing I have ever done is with www.deserthighlights.com. This is hiking with a little bit of rappelling. This can also be done in Zion and Escalante.
You might consider a flyover @ Moab of Canyonlands, we thought it was great.

From there, consider Natural Bridges National Monument/Moki Dugway, Muley Point, and Gooseneck of the San Juan State Park. This can be done in a day and then spend the night @ Valley of the Gods B&B.

From there you can head towards Mesa Verde or Monument Valley.

If you go to Mesa Verde, I would ride the train in Durango and Zipline. Monument Valley is somewhat like Capitol Reef, certainly is awesome, but on the bottom of my list as far as awesome goes. I loved Mesa Verde. You would want to stay in the park and allow two full days there. You could see 4 corners monument( touristy, but where can you stand in 4 states at once).

Cap Reef
http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/...B?source=pw980

Zion
http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/...1?source=pw980

Mesa Verde, Natural Bridges, Durango, 4 corners
http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/...4?source=pw980

Arches, Canyoneering
http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/...6?source=pw980

Wow, you certainly have given me lots to consider. I'm not sure about our ability to make some of those hikes though.

I should have mentioned at the outset, that both myself and my wife are into photography as a hobby. This may impact our timing for sunrise and sunset views. I suspect it will also take us more time on the drives as we will be stopping with our cameras out and snapping. The hikes will also be tougher with tripods and camera equipment.

We want to make sure we are not cramming too much in this time frame so we can explore the areas at a reasonable pace.

I have heard great things about Lake Powell and am wondering if we should try to put this in the itinerary?
Here is the proposed route for now.....

Fly into Las Vegas 2nts (never been here and would like to at least see it)

Zion National Parks 3nts Desert Pearl booked.

Bryce Canyon 2nts Bryce Canyon Best Western Grand booked.

Capitol Reef Nat Pk 1 nt Torrey
Driving from Bryce to Torrey on hwy 12 and 24 then up to Moab.Possible side routes down to the Glen Canyon area while enroute to Torrey or Torrey to Moab? If so, what route and time frame.

Moab 3 nts
Should we shorten this to 2 nts to include Lake Powell, maybe driving from Moab for an overnight stay in Kayenta which would be closer to Lake Powell? What things can we fit into the driving between Moab and Kayenta?

Monument Valley 1 nt
Delete this in favor of an overnight at Lake Powell?

Grand Canyon 2 nts Bright Angel Lodge rim cabin booked.

Sedona 2 nts (possible stay at Hilton Resort to kick back and wind down after all the exploring)

Fly out of Phoenix..last night near airport due to 6am flt.

We would love to see Mesa Verde, but I am not sure we could do it justice on this schedule. Thinking of saving it for another trip, possibly through Colorado and New Mexico?

I'm looking forward to feedback on my latest schedule.

Thanks again for all the suggestions so far.
Bill

If you do decide to stop by Lake Powell, there are some great photo ops in the Page area. I have some (not professional) pictures on www.flickr/photos/emalloy2009/sets in the 2008 trip that will give you an idea.

After spending the morning investigating the Lake Powell area, I am seriously considering a night or two there. The photography tour into Antelope Canyon sounds just up our alley, and the Float tour on the Colorado River sounds great too. Does anyone have personal experience with either of these? Will we miss too much along the way if we drive straight through from Moab to Lake Powell? How long a drive would it be from Moab to Powell?

When you say Float the Colorado, from where do you mean. You can do this in many places Moab, Grand Canyon, and I imagine around Lake Powell. Give Goblin Valley a look. It isn't far from Cap Reef and is good at Sunrise or Sunset as the goblins cast their shadows. It is also good at night, because it is one of the darkest places(a lot of Utah is like this). This place sometimes does astronomy stuff at night. Bryce has ranger-led astronomy about every night. They do a full moon walk the two nights every 28(?) days when the moon is full.

Only two or three of my hikes are really that wild or off the charts strenuous. You could do most of them with a tripod.. The rewards are fantastic. I go at a very fast pace. If you are the type that is slower, you probably do have to much. I'm not sure if I would like to see the whole state at one time anyway. It is different, but it does look a lot alike. There is only so much one can look at rocks and say wow. My very first thought when I firsted looked at your post, was that I thought it was too much. However, if you aren't doing much hiking, it would probably work out about right. On the longer hikes that I mention, just go at a slower pace. We always pack snacks and stop several times along the way. You must must must have plenty of water if you do much hiking at all. Since you mention photography, do google "the wave" and see what you think about that. I think it is a 2-3 to reach the area. It is not shaded and there is no trail to it.

As spiro mentioned, I was in Bryce and the Page area 2 years ago and have trip photos. You can see them at:

www.travelwalks.com

You can select the 2007 & 2008 trips to the SW.

I hope you have a great time, but be sure to plan for trail closures. It happens.

Myer, fantastic photos!!! Spiro, the float on the Colorado was from Lake Powell. I was also wondering about spending so much time in Utah on one trip. I'm not sure how diverse the scenery will be and if we will be "rocked" out after a week. This is one reason the Lake Powell river float appealed to me. At least there would be water added to the rock scenery. It looks like we will be in Captitol Reef for the full moon on our trip. Anything there we should make sure to see during the full moon?

Bylb, we did both the half day smooth water float trip and upper Antelope Canyon on the same day. We just lucked out with the float trip, I made DH stop near a cell tower and called them when we were on our way to Page and they had room for us for the early trip the next day. After that we had lunch and then went to Antelope. I think you can stay longer in lower Antelope canyon but haven't tried that. We were about an hour or so in upper and we just went to the parking lot and got on a tour at about 3 ish and there was only one other couple in our group although the group ahead of us was quite large and I didn't always wait for them to get out of the way before shooting pictures.

Look at my post above from Oct 29th at 1:55 where I describe a few sights just outside of Page.

Also, about Bryce Canyon. The park is pretty small. If you time it right you can get a lot done in a short period of time.

Try to get in-park lodging. Get to Bryce Point for sunrise. You can visit the viewpoints by car. However, the only ones that are different and worth stopping at are Natural Bridge, Bryce Point & Inspiration Point. If you are not a real hiker but want to get a good feel for the park, you can hike down Navajo Loop and then either come back up the other side of the loop or join Queen's Garden at the bottom and go up that way. Navajo Loop start/end is at Sunset Point and Queen's Garden at Sunrise Point.

If you want to do something that I thought was great but absolutely nobody else that I know of has done try this. Upon exiting Bryce turn right (east) on Rt 12 and after about 15-20 miles you get to Canonville. Stop at the Visitors Center and get instructions on how to get to Willis Creek. It's in the same direction as Grosvenor Arch but you take a right at the fork instead of a left.

It's a 10 mile dirt road drive. Once in the parking lot it's a very short and easy walk to the start of a series of real slot canyons. There are even a few very small waterfalls.

I have some photos on my web site on the Utah 2008 trip.

This is a couple of hours well spent.

As far as Antelope Canyon is concerned. I didn't take an organized tour or anything like that. I pulled into the parking lot, paid for parking and then bought a "guide" ticket. There were about 6 of us in the back of the truck (I brought a plastic bag for my camera because of the dust). We spent an hour in the Canyon and I had more than enough time to take as many photos as I wanted. There were some other people there at the same time but everybody cooperates and tries to get out of the way of your photo. Of course, the odd person didn't realize everybody was yelling at them but eventually they new.

spiro mentioned Lower Calf Creek Falls. It's a 2.5 mile hike each way with little shade. It's pretty level so that's good. The 126 ft falls at the end are just spectacular. Again, there are photos on my Utah 2008 trip.

It's kind of tough to do anything with the full moon. You don't want to stand on a highway and it's really too dark to be hiking at night. Somebody mentioned rattlesnakes but I never saw or heard anything.

I don't think Cap Reef does anything with Ranger Led Full Moon Hikes, but I know they do in Bryce and I think they do in Goblin Valley. you'll have to check their websites and see

If you decide to splurge on your trip, would suggest either
staying at Enchantment Resort in Sedona, or at L'Auberge de Sedona.

I think your timing is about right on everything. If you aren't doing a lot of hiking you could do Zion in two days(we were there 4 days and could have used an additional two days). I think that if you include Lake Powell you will want to stay longer than a day. I would stay @ Zion Lodge, but Desert Pearl must be great, as I have seen nothing but positives about it. Did you check for Bryce Lodge in Bryce(in the park)? Check the nps website for Full Moon hikes at Bryce(two days each moon cycle they do them).

A full day @ Grand Canyon is probably enough. It might be a good thing that you a saving it for last. It really doesn't have that much to do there, but it is kindof like ending a fireworks show with a final "big one". Seeing the Grand Canyon, Deadhorse Point, and Crater Lake are my 3 biggest jaw-dropping moments. It almost brings you to your knees. It is that awesome.

I am not sure what you mean by river float on Lake Powell. If you are refering to the boat that goes to Rainbow Bridge, I think that would be fantastic. But it really isn't a river float. They do offer river floats of the GC and Canyonlands. These are mild(not for me, I like rapids). I gave my parents a gift certificate to the one @ Grand Canyon for their anniversary a few years ago and they loved it. This was a flight from vegas with a helicopter tour that landed in the bottom and then a 30 minute float in the bottom.

I think you have a lot to pick from everyone's suggestions. You will have to eliminate some of them to fit everything into your schedule. You might want to hike to Calf Creek and see Lake Powell, as you suggest, so you get a little different scenery.

There was a neat looking old schoolhouse in Torrey that is a B&B that looked interesting, we didn't stay at it, though.

Byllb,

Since you are into photography, I would highly recommend editing your trip down to fewer locations so you can spend more time in places.

The more you hear about all the places there are to see, the more you will want to visit! There is simply no end!

Each park and area mentioned above is different and unique. Yes, a lot of red rock, but lots of other colors too and endless shapes and sizes. Nothing could be further apart than Goblin Valley and Zion Canyon....and on and on.

Don't try to do it all, you can't! Spend more time and return many times more.

But, whatever you do, DON'T cut time in Moab! My personal preferences would be to cut a day from both Las Vegas (hate the place) and Sedona. Nice, but nothing to compare to all the other places named above. IMHO....

I agree with Dayle about Vegas, but since you haven't been there, I would spend a day and an evening there, just to see what it is and what it is all about. I agree with him about not cutting time from Moab. There is just so much to do in and around Moab. Of the places I have been in Utah, it would be the first place I want to return for a second trip. With 10 days, you could easily spend it in 2 or 3 places. But then again, you could hit just the highlights. I don't really like to hit the highlights, I like to totally experience it. But I do some fairly serious hiking each day, Usually 5-12 miles per day, and if not that then some other physical activity. You could even spend an entire week, just doing some 4 wheel drive roads around Moab. You get one little taste of an awesome hike, awesome road, awesome raft trip, or whatever and you will want more.

My approach is somewhat different than spiro's.

I do a lot of planning. I determine a priority for each sight at each location. I estimate the amount of time to see it in a relaxed, unrushed visit. I then decide the time of day that would be best (for instance, Antelope Canyon when the sun is high and Delicate Arch for sunset). After that I put together several plans based on the proximity of the sights to each other. I then have a best plan, next best, etc based on how it works out so that I can adjust during the trip and not miss things.

After that I'm pretty much non-stop. I have never left a sight because I had to leave to get to the next one.

Dayle mentioned Goblin Valley. That was on my list but had a lower priority. It was around 5:30 - 6PM when we passed it on the way from Moab to Torrey. We decided to pull in and spent a couple of hours climbing all over the rocks. It was a lot of fun and the low sun was great. I'm glad we stopped. The only consequence was that we drove the last part in the dark. We actually stopped at a spot on the highway to take moon photos.

bookmarking - great thread

All of you have certainly given me lots of things to consider and some very good ideas. Now, I guess it is up to me to try and sift through and decide how to structure all of it without carry on at a harried pace. It is so hard to see all these wonderful places and know I can't see them all on this trip. The hardest part of it all is figuring out how long we will need to spend in certain areas having never been to any of them. It is also tough to figure out how long it will take from one place to the other. I know how many miles and how long google estimates are, but that is not taking into account the stopping at scenic views and lunches etc.

I am more in tune with the approach Myer takes in my planning. My wife tells me I sometimes over plan and just need to go with the flow.

Now, on to paring down our stops to a reasonable list. It won't be easy, but with all the helpful suggestions for you guys, I think it will be easier.

Thanks again,
Bill

Just a couple of things.

If you are into photography, you'll need a tripod for Antelope Canyon. When I was there I was the only one with a tripod. A few people actually had their little P&S cameras with the flash on. I remember the guide telling them to use the highest ISO they could. Still doesn't help when you get a blurred photo.

In places like Moab with multiple sights I divided the days into 3 parts; morning, afternoon and late afternoon.

The rest of the trips just fell into place as there were seldom multiple sights of interest in the same location.

If you do stay in Springdale (we loved that little town), here's a vote for Flannigan's Inn. We stayed there about 15 years ago, so I can't vouch for the shape it's in now, but then, it was a very nice place.

Again, that little town was great!

I haven't read everything here but my comments

Springdale is the exception to the "stay in the park" rule.

I probably also would add a 4th night in Moab. Chances are you will arrive kind of late in the day the first one.

I loved the Red Cliffs Lodge in Moab and it's on the way to Fisher Towers and the La Sal loop but you might find driving there a bit too much.

I was sorry I didn't have more time around Boulder/Torrey.

I think there is new lodging near Monument Valley that is an alternative to Gouldings. I did a self drive into Monument Valley early (before the tours started) and loved it.