Helicopter crash on Kauai
 

Just heard the awful news about the Jack Harter tour helicopter that went down by Mt. Waialale this morning killing all on board, and it gets me to wondering...in view of the fact that this is the 2nd fatal helicopter crash in the state of Hawaii in the past month or so, do any of you seasoned helicopter tourists, myself being among them, now have second thoughts about ever going up in one again? I've always felt reasonably comfortable in taking the many helicopter flights (all with InterIsland, who, ironically, was the search and rescue company that arrived on the scene after today's crash) that we have, and of course, Jack Harter had always prided themselves on their perfect safety record, but now I must admit that it gives me pause...where does everybody else stand on this issue?

I had always heard very good things about Jack harters flights. My husband and I enjoyed our helicopter flight on Kauai back in 1985-it was a little scarey for me but it was great! However, in 2001 we were in Maui with our two sons ages 8 and 9 and decided not to do it. I guess we just felt a little apprehensive about taking them up there. This November we will be in Kauai and on the BI and had already decided against a heli flight for the same reasons and the cost. I guess there is risk in everything you do though. however, my one question about the safety is what happens if your pilot becomes ill or unable to finish his flight? There is not usually a co-pilot.
Tammy

Hi Margot, well it's "risk management" at the consumer level. I've spent (work) time in various types of helicopters, don't care for any of them much, but I'd still love to do the Kauai "no doors" trip but this report will mean my wife definitely won't consider it now ! Flying around mountain peaks has risks re winds, visibility, disturbed air etc. Consider the Kenya crash last weekend .. it's thought the plane went too close "for a better view" and so on...
Overall, like any commercial air travel, the statistics are on our side, but then again, who wants to be a mere statistic ;)

As I understand it-- and I have no statistics to back this up-- helicopters are considered more dangerous than planes because there's no failsafe-- one propeller, one engine. So, if something goes wrong, it really goes wrong.
That said, we took the interisland "no doors" tours less than two months ago in Kauai. It was great...but given the recent accidents...I don't think I'd do it, even with a company with a perfect safety record. Even as I write that, I think someone would probably be able to talk me into it.

hedgerow,
You're partly right about the safety factor for helos. If you lose an engine, you still may be able to auto-rotate, where the blades still turn but they're not connected to the engine. It's a common safety maneuver that is practiced by all pilots. Not pleasant to watch, but it's an option. I'm heading to Kauai in December and am leaning toward the Inter Island flight. Agree that helos are probably more dangerous than planes, but there's risk in everything you do.

aloha, margot!

This is such sad news.

I guess statistically speaking, now would be a good time to take a Jack Harter heli ride. I mean, what are the chances it would crash again so soon??

We did the Interisland flight in May...I still can't believe I got on the heli after having really mixed feelings about it. I'm glad we did it, we loved it, but probably will never do it again...

I'm having major second thoughts now. And I really wanted to do one too :(
What should we do instead? A boat trip up the Napali Coast? It won't be the same though.

But I'm such a chicken.

((r))A NaPali boat trip is a MUST, with or without a helicopter ride!

are you saying the boat trip is better than the helicopter ride? we can't afford both.

Hi Margot,
Last night when I told my husband about the crash, his comment was he was glad we had already done the helicopter tour.
But, I read the report in the Honolulu Star and thought the company was Ohana. Going right now to look and see.
Sad news. And in answer to your question, I'm sure we will not be taking another helicopter tour for quite some time..

((R))Can't really say boat ride is "better" than helicopter ride or vice-versa - they are very different experiences, each one exhilarating in their own way...You definitely will see more of the lushness and ruggedness of the NaPali cliffs on the boat ride, not to mention the unbelievably blue water that surrounds the magnificent sea caves. On the other hand, Waimea Canyon and Mt. Waialeale by air can't be beat. So...it is a tough decision, especially with the current sad news. When are you going, crazieladybug?

Not until next July. Maybe I'll just decide closer to when we go.

I second the Napali coast boat ride, we took one out of Port Allen and would like to try it out of Hanalei next time, because you are closer to the Napali Coast. The difference between helicopter and boat tour is that you do not see as many waterfalls on the boat tour. However, ((r)) impressive waterfalls are easy to access on Kauai (Opaeka, Wailua) by car, so I do not think you miss that much if you decide to skip the heli. :S-

Sorry I reported erroneous info. It was Jack Harter. I read a Honolulu Star bulletin from several years ago. I should have paid attention to the dates.

Margot and John, what boat company did you take?

We did both the helicopter ride (with Jack Harter) and the Na Pali sunset cruise in February. We enjoyed the helicopter ride but all 4 of us (2 couples) really enjoyed the sunset cruise more. I think it left about 1pm or so and did not get back till after sunset. The weather was perfect, the crew was friendly, the food okay but the ambiance was terrific. We throughly enjoyed the coastal views, whale watching, picture taking and sea air!! At the time we all said we would definitely do the cruise if we ever came back. Used a coupon so it was much more economical too!

which boat company MGB??

I've posted before on this topic but perhaps it bears repeating. I really enjoy helicopter tours - have done them in Australia, Alaska, and British Columbia as well as other places - but when we were on the Big Island some years ago, we were told that there are lots of crashes that we don't always hear about because they aren't fatal and often there aren't any serious injuries. Still, a crash is a crash. The problem specifically on the Big Island is with the tours over the volcano. Apparently volcanic gases can interfere with the internal combustion engine of the helicopter. This was enough to deter us, at least on the BI, although I'm not sure I'd hesitate to go up again provided there wasn't an active volcano in the vicinity.

crazyladiebug
It was Blue Dolphin Charters. I just checked our brochure. Sunset in Hawaii in February was about 4:30 or 5pm. It was a 3.5 hour cruise but I think we were out at least 4 hours. They stop the boat just before sunset to serve champagne and so you can take pictures. Before that on the way back they served heavy pupus (appetizers) and drinks. Really a great afternoon! I cannot remember how much we paid but we all thought it was extremely reasonable, I think we used a coupon that we had picked up in a brochure at the airport. We had done the helicopter the day before.

Message: I think the company we used out of Port Allen has changed title, it was the only one that offered a "ecofriendly" boat that ran on vegetable oil, and on a trip prior to ours, they had photo's of how a whale had breached and landed on the back of the boat!

Last spring we tried the blue bible's suggestion: "Napali catamaran" out of Hanalei Bay, unfortunately it was too rough for my wife to make the transfer from the outrigger canoe that they use to take you to the powerboat, so I can only comment on the one from Port Allen, which basically spent more time than we would like trying to reach the stunning Napali coast. During this trip in Feb. 2002 we saw our first whale breach out of the water. :S-

crazieladybug, we used to go out with Napali Eco Adventures, but they've been bought out by Cap'n Andy's (which we have also tried and didn't care for), so more recently, we took Hanalei Sea Tours and were very impressed by their tour and overall service.

crazieladie
After I saw the above post, Our cruise was out of Port Allen. We did see a whale breach. It was a 63 foot catamaran, my husband is susceptible to sea sickness, he took a pill and did not have a problem. They go up the coast leisurely (stopping when whales are in sight or when they get very close to the coast) and come back at a fast speed.

Oops, correction to my last post - it was Kauai Sea Tours that we took last time, NOT Hanalei Sea Tours.

We took Holoholo out of Port Allen, booked ahead on the web (free T-shirts ((y))). Although it's a ways from the Napali region it's a fast cat, you get as far as Kalalau & can see Kee beach ahead when it turns and heads for caves etc on the way back. Got a few pics at http://members.aol.com/ourfoto but it was a bit rainy .. lots ((r)) tho'. It's a great trip overall, can't wait to do it again :)

Hearing about this crash would not change my mind about taking a helicopter tour. When I was a teenager, my family took a helicopter tour along the Myrtle Beach coastline. Less than 2 weeks later, that very chopper crashed. On Friday, June 13th, DH and I took the 2 hour "Big Island Spectacular" with Blue Hawaiian. It was amazing and we enjoyed every minute. 2 days later a chopper with a different company crashed in the same area we had flown over.

How do we decide what activities are risky? Recently in Atlanta, a young family on their way home, was stopped at a traffic light during a thunderstorm. A huge tree fell on their SUV and crushed the mom and her two little boys. Dad didn't get a scratch. How could they have avoided that?

The family in the African plane crash was also from Atlanta and speculation is that the pilots became disoriented in the mist surrounding the mountain.

My opinion is that we are all given a certain amount of time on this earth. When it is your time to die there is nothing you can do about it. If we all start eliminating activities that could prove fatal, we wouldn't get out of our beds. Of course, that can be dangerous, too. Research the record of the company you want to fly with and go! The rest is up to God.

Terry

So a boat trip out of Port Allen is still worthwhile? The blue book seems to be saying the best ones start in Hanalei and go South... Only seems to be one company that does so though.

IMHO, NaPali boat trips out of Port Allen are just fine, especially in the summer when you plan to travel there.

We took the whalewatch/Napali Coast/snorkel trip in February, people got seasick, we did not because we took dramamine, we could not snorkel in the best area because it was rough and we ended up snorkeling in a calm spot close to Port Allen with little fish. We did see a few whales, a few turtles, and a few dolphins. When we do it again we would like to go out of Hanalei Bay, simply because it is closer to the main attraction: the view of the Napali coast. I would not argue against doing it out of Port Allen, I just think it is more time efficient from Hanalei bay. :S-

In 1998, we stayed at the Hilton Waikaloa Village. Another guest who worked for the FAA said that they had come in a couple of years before and grounded all othe helicopter charters because of faulty safety inspections and poorly maintained records. He said that while there was "improvement" he, nor any member of his family would ever fly in one. Additionally, the young woman who staffed the concierge room said that she would never ride in one. Her father she said was the Chief of Police on Kauai and he didn't even feel that they were safe, and yet he had to ride in them. The safety issues were not with the government owned and maintained helicopters but the nature of the landscape itself. Sudden rain storms, updrafts, etc.

We are leaving for a family cruise to Alaska on Sunday and, while in Juneau, are doing a heli excursion. I was very hesitant to book a heli b/c quite frankly--I'm afraid of them. However, parental pressure prevailed. Now I read this post and am really not psyched!

Tour helicopters are far more risky than other types of aviation. There is a much higher accident rate for tour helicopters, not only in Hawaii but everywhere. Every individual should do some research and make their own decision as to whether or not the risk is too great. Do a web search for "helicopter crashes". Also, check the National Transportation Safety Board web site (www.ntsb.gov) where you can do a search for all types of aviation accidents (e.g. helicopter) by geographic location (i.e. Hawaii).

I am usually a "risk taker". I have researched tour helicopter crashes and I have determined that for me this is an unacceptably high risk activity.

News story:
http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news...52/detail.html

related thread:
http://fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=1

Sorry,

related thread:
http://fodors.com/forums/pgMessages....6&start=50

Have been on different islands twice in just over a year. Was there last month and in April 2002, and am going to BI June 04. Have wanted to do the helicopter with the 4 of us but kept waffleing -- read all the ads they have in the booklets you get everywhere and they all brag about their safety and perfect records. Then I see this crash news yesterday on MSNBC page and do a Google and find there were the 2 crashes on the last 5 weeks plus 3 back in a 9 month stretch in 2000 -- 7 on a Blue Hawaii heli on Maui (the one I considered as I was impressed by their ad with all the perfect safety and pilots with a gazillion hours etc), 10 on a tour plane and 6 on a small plane. Like another poster said -- do your research and make an informed decision.
The reality is this may not be a very high incident rate considering they probably fly easily over 10,000 flights a year (thats 27 flights a day split among dozens of operators across all the islands). As an airline flier of over 125,000 miles a year (couple of hundred take offs and landings each year) for 8 years, I understand the risks and that you look at the remote percentage chance of it happening to you. There are probably hundreds of folks reading this that have done the copter tours and loved it -- my mother did it with a brother of mine when she was 80 and said only last month " I can't believe I actually got on it and did it but it was so wonderful".
There is risk everywhere and we all have to consider it. I just don't like the marketing and advertising the tour operators do like they are all perfect and clean -- but off course they wouldn't want to scare off a SINGLE customer that would pay over $100 to sit in one of their aircraft.

((R))I don't know...in reading all these posts and doing more thinking about it, I think this is where I'm at, at least at this writing: I'm really glad I've done all the helicopter tours I've taken, found them all thriling and exhilarating, but I have to say, I'm now also more RELIEVED than anything else - relieved that I did it, enjoyed it and lived to tell...I'm guessing that it'll be awhile, if ever, that I take another one, and that suits me fine. I do wonder how this incident has affected all the helicopter tours on Kauai (and elsewhere, I suppose), i.e. what kind of cancellation rate they've gotten and how much their advance bookings might have fallen off...?

I just made reservations for a Kauai trip next month and decided to overcome my fears and check out helitours because I knew my husband and teen sons would love it. I had not heard the news on the crash until I logged on here and now I will opt for a boat tour of the coast instead. I am sure I have a greater chance of getting in an auto accident driving to LAX but my anxiety about a helicopter flight would not be enjoyable!

Damn! last night I was just watching on the travel channel about helicopter tours on the Big I sland with may partner. I asked him if he regretted not taking one while we were there. He admitted that he did but knew that I'd be a mess flying around up there. And then 20 minutes later I read about the crash. Count me out!

Cabicou..In all fairness,if a plane had just crashed yesterday,would you never fly again? Scuba,motorcycle,automobile accidents etc. occur far more frequently than helo accidents. Speaking for myself,these never deter me from par-taking the activity.

Doc, your analogy doesn't make sense. Of course there are far more car accidents than helicopter crashes, but that's because MILLIONS more people drive than take a tour helicopter. The same with commercial aircraft. Your looking at actual numbers instead of percentages.

Reply to doc: I think the issue for most people is their sense of control or helplessness in a fatal accident. If you are driving a car you feel you have a chance to avoid a fatal accident even though statistically you are more likely to die driving. In a helicopter you are pretty much helpless. :?