Hawaii Revealed Guidebooks
 

I've been sensing some hostility here...

As a person (and family) in love with the Islands, I was overjoyed a few years ago to find such a comprehensive series of guidebooks. Then, I started reading things about the book being banned in places such as the VNP visitor center, and various grumblings from locals about pristine spots being overrun by tourists.

So, I thought I'd start a thread here to get Fodorites' opinions. I love the books for their detailed maps and access info, but we want to tread lightly on Hawaii when we visit...

Hi gigib - your senses are correct, there's lots of grumbling for good reasons.

See my following post from February:
Date: 02/14/2006, 05:14 pm

kopp - there's been quite a bit of debate on this site about the "Hawaii Revealed Blue Books". Some of us hate them, and some of us love them, and some of us realize there's both good AND bad information in them. I could only find the posts I contributed to. Let me just say that I own all of them, and while the hotel info is good, the hiking info can be bad; rather suspect. You may have to cut and paste the following:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34609863

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34510246

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34543770

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34696725

((S))((*))

I think people should be responsible enuff not to need a guide book tell them please do not throw your filtered cigarette butts or paper coffee cups with plastic tops still on them on the NaPali Coast or Polihale Beach. :'(

I think some people just don't want to share their "secret" favorite places with the readers of the revealed series. We found many new places to visit through the book, and the food/lodging info is very good. HOWEVER: I also think they push boundaries vis a vis private lands and access. People should not ever disregard private postings, unless they are very sure that what they are doing is legal (go through this guy's gate, be sure to close it, hop the fence, and then you see the trail to the waterfall---highly suspect!)

I have gladly burned my books, but I couldn't part with the bra. I visited Hawaii for over 20 years before those books were published and managed to have a pretty good time, and will probably manage just fine without them.

-Bill

yeah, but bbq baby, you got all us to tell you where to go!!!!!!!!!

Aloha gigib!

Why do we travel?

I too thought what wonderful books and own Maui, Kauai, and BI copies, which I used to share with friends. Over the years, I have seen the fallout from Andrew and Harriett's success and it is very disturbing to me personally.

If life works out, and I have a vacation next summer in Hanalei, you and all fodorites are all invited to my "Burn your Blue Book/BlueBible and Bra Bonfire and Fireworks BBQ. Hey just the fact that people call these books bibles is disturbing...and that coming from a heathen like me!

Not all travel destinations should be shared. For it is in the discovering thru interacting with the local population that those hidden gems are found, shared and rejoiced.

The authors have taken the middle man, the local out, and put many amzing places in jeopardy. No Sylvia, those of us who are offended by the books are not trying to keep our favorite places secret. We are remembering a time when the joy of discovery for those who took an active part in exploring.

Picture if you will, you own a lovely yard. Then one day everyone who visits your town reads about an amazing pond in your backyard that has access next to your property. Now a hundred people a day are traipsing thru your backyard leaving trash, making noise and acting irresponsably.

That is what has happened to many in Hawaii.

Now if that is not bad enough, the authors have crowned themselves the "ChristopherColumbus of Hawaii" claiming to have discovered "Hidden Gems" And it is quite possible that, due to their discovery, people have died.

"When WE revealed it in our first edition, Queen's Bath was an unknown gem accessible via a vague trail through the jungle and exlusive to our readers. I guess we're a victim of our own success...."Kauai Revealed

HELLO!!!! Many of us had no problem finding their hidden gem years before they discovered it! Problem is, since their discovery, many people have died, unnaware of rogue waves and the dangers that exist. Each and every time I visit a place that they discoverd, I seem to witness naive tourists putting themselves at risk.

Hidden jems are for those who search them out. They are not for the massmarketed tourist, and should never be used to sell books at the cost of the local population or tourists lives.

Am I over dramatic? Oh yeak. That's because I've witnessed first hand the damage an overly eager tour guidebook can do.

They on the other hand are reaping such financial rewards that they are blind to the damage they have done to a people they so respected and their land. It is everything that is not aloha.

Just my humble opinion.
sistahlou

oooops aloha kamahinaohoku! great threads you posted.....mahalo! G

Having traveled to Hawaii in a ((?)) un- <font color="blue">Revealed<font color="black"> state, I found their =D&gt; maps very helpful on subsequent visits over what the rental car agency or other guidebooks provided.:S-</font></font>

sista, maybe you should read past the first line of my post (wherein I did use the word &quot;some&quot;) to where I questioned the authors touting places to visit to which access was suspect.

I used the Revealed books in planning my upcoming trip to Big Island and Oahu. I found it extremely useful in terms of restaurant reviews, hotel photos, and pictures of the different destinations. Without pics, it's hard for me to imagine the difference between, say, Kiholo Bay and A-Bay and decide which one I want to visit. With pics, it's much easier, and the Revealeds have more pics than other guidebooks.

That said, I also think I'm smart/respectful enough to ignore the suggestions that include gated roads, private protery, or anything that includes the phrase &quot;...no matter what the locals say, it IS state property.&quot; I don't want to tread on anyone's turf -- I just want photos and recommendations to help me with my planning (and get me in a vacationing mood!) and found the books helpful in that regard.

Protery? Property. I&quot;m a little sleepy this a.m.

As an island resident, my primary complaint about the book is their blatant failure to _consistently_ warn folks about dangerous hiking and beach areas.

Yes, they slapped a &quot;be careful&quot; disclaimer at the front of the book -- but a large &quot;DANGER&quot; notice needs to be added before many, many activities they recommend.

sistahlou - Mahalo nui loa to you.

The following was buried in one of those posts I listed. Some people would say that the people involved are responsible for the actions that lead them to this problem...but if they hadn't read the book, they never would have been there in the first place...
http://mauinews.com/story.aspx?id=3302

((S))((*))

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. I also like the photos, Karameli; I think that's what made me buy the first one for a Kauai trip in '02. DH ran (&quot;ran&quot;) the Powerline trail one way on that trip, we drove up to the end of the road above Kapaa, then I picked him up at the other end near Princeville. Wouldn't have known about it if not for the book.

I completely agree auntiemaria. The standard &quot;dangers&quot; passage in the front of the book does not cut it when you're telling people about tidepools and crossing streams on hiking trails, etc.

And if anyone wonders why Hawaii residents are always so quick to point out the dangers of an activity or location, it's due to hearing of all the tourists who die each year. In the year I lived on Oahu I was at first shocked by the deaths, then as time went on I was saddened by them, then I just got angry. There was a two-week span when four visitors drown, two of whom were parents who left behind a young son who had to wait for relatives from the Mainland to come get him. A lot of the tourists who die in Hawaii would be alive today if they had been more cautious.

No disrespect intended sylvia! And I agree with those who find their maps and pictures to be a very useful tool in trip planning. It's too bad they feel the need to push the envelope to include things they really shouldn't reveal.

Sistah--No umbrage taken; you are absolutely right--and I'll add one oddity that I remember from one of the books (I think Maui Revealed)that didn't involve physical danger to the tourist, but had a notice to this effect: &quot;if you take this road, be on the lookout for children and dogs and chickens, who are all playing on the unpaved road, and pay no attention to the (dirty) looks.&quot; Who in their right mind would undertake that little jaunt, knowing how disruptive it would be to those who live there?!

Ahhhh one big Kauai <i>LUUUUVFEST</i>
:-X :)&gt;-

Smack back at ya Kahuna!

((K))

ttt

Since this is up again, I thought I'd mention this. As usual, Maui Revealed book is mentioned as the guide that gets people to this very dangerous spot.



KAHAKULOA, Maui — Two visitors drowned yesterday after being swept off the rocks at a hazardous area known as Olivine Pools northwest of Kahakuloa.

Witnesses told authorities a wave knocked a man into the water at around 12:50 p.m. As the woman with him was screaming for him, she was pulled into the ocean. The man was floating face down when the first rescuers arrived, but the woman was seen treading water before she died, said Maui Fire Department Rescue Capt. Derrick Arruda.

He said the bodies of the man and woman, whose names were not released, were recovered in deep water about 50 to 75 feet from the rocky coastline.

A Fire Department helicopter dropped two rescuers into the sea and lowered a Billy Pugh net to pick up the man. One of the firefighters performed cardiopulmonary resuscitation on him while they were airlifted to a grassy landing zone on the cliffs above the pools, Arruda said. Meanwhile, a county water safety rescue craft arrived from a West Maui beach, and the woman was put on its rescue sled. A water safety officer and the other firefighter conducted CPR on her before she was lifted in the net to the landing zone.

Arruda, who has helped rescue many people in the area, said the breathtaking scenery is very deceptive. &quot;It's a very dangerous place. Its water rises and recedes quickly, so it can be really calm and all of a sudden a freak set comes in and if you're standing on the edge of the rocks, the waves will come up and grab you, and there's nothing you can do but swim out away from the shore,&quot; he said.

&quot;The ocean there is pretty choppy, but it wasn't that rough (yesterday). When it's really rough, people don't go near the shoreline, but when it's like this, people get into trouble.&quot;

Visitors to the remote site must hike down a steep trail to get to a lava shelf. Some guidebooks recommend Olivine Pools as a &quot;hidden&quot; spot to visit, although public safety officials advise against it.

In April 2004, a 41-year-old California man and his 14-year-old daughter were swept into the sea at Olivine Pools. The girl survived but her father died.

Even as the bodies of the victims of yesterday's tragedy were being carried to an ambulance, tourists were pulling up farther down to the road at the trailhead to Olivine Pools. Matthew and Melissa Matz of Ft. Lauderdale, Fla., who were hiking back up from the site, said they read about the pools in the best-selling &quot;Maui Revealed&quot; guidebook.

Looking down at the ocean swells crashing onto the rocks, Melissa Matz, 32, said, &quot;It doesn't even look like it's that strong.&quot;

Her husband said it's not until you get down close to the pools that the potential danger becomes more evident.

Here's a link to the Honolulu Advertiser story, with a map:

http://tinyurl.com/y2q6pc

We've been to those pools with a friend who's lived on Maui for 30 years. They made me nervous just from the look of them. I asked our friend if he could take us inland to Twin Falls instead, which he did. It's fine to use guidebooks and even friends as guides, though we should trust our gut insticts at all times.

We really liked the BI revealed guidebook -- the maps were especially helpful. It provided some interesting activities that I wouldn't have thought of (we did a nighttime Manta Ray snokel with a dive operator). We also liked the restaurant recommendations though we sometimes did take a chance and try something not in the book (Hawaiian Vanilla Company luncheon for instance - I discovered that off a tripadvisor talk forum). So for the newbies -- like myself -- we did the Green Sand Beach hike which I don't think I would have attempted it without using it for a reference. It turned out to be a real highlight and I am so glad we did it. The type and color photos are much more appealling than some of the other guidebooks, Lonely Planet - Rough guides are designed for younger eyes.

I would use the Revealed books again unless someone else comes up with something better.

I'm sure the two people that were swept into the ocean at the Olivine Pools and drowned felt the same way about the books as do many of you who continue to use them.

-Bill

everyone needs a guidebook when they travel 13+ hours to the islands, we don't want to miss a thing and for now, the revealed guidebooks are the best information we can get. When I took my first trip to Maui 3 years ago, I didn't have a guidebook of any sort, I only did my research in this forum, the next year I went back, I bougtht he Maui Revealed book, I found so many things that I didn't do the first time around. It's amazing. Now when I travel, I make sure I buy a guidebook.
I'm going to BI next week and I have tons of postits on my BI Revealed, before I bought the book, I didn't even know how the island looked like, with the book, I have clear pictures of distances from one place to another, it's a great travel guidebook that I would no doubt recommend to people travelling to Hawaii.

we took the blue book for our first trip to kauai in 93 or 95? we tried something they said was an easy to find waterfall off the main road.

after a sweaty, scratched up mosquito bitten miserable half hour we did an about face and decided that we'd just rely on the book for maps and dining tips.

i think you can tell pretty early on if you're over your head in a natural setting, and common sense should kick in at that point.

ban the readers, not the books!

kerikeri :)

I love these books for their maps, photos and detailed descriptions BUT I do agree with some of what posters have said. I think it's fine to point out interesting &quot;hidden&quot; places. BUT I also think it would be good to emphasize any specific dangers at certain spots. I also don't think it is appropriate to encourage tourists to annoy local people. I am cautious by nature and was never tempted to get too close to certain recommended ocean sights but I can see how less cautious people may require a VERY specific and strongly worded warning about certain spots. As for annoying local people (whether you are &quot;right&quot; or wrong) I just don't consider it &quot;responsible&quot; tourist behaviour.
Will I continue to buy the books - yes - I really found them much more useful than other guide books.

From my post on same topic on other thread:
Common sense! People need to take responsibility for their actions -- you can't always blame a book. While the book may have made a lot more people aware of this site, it does warn people about the inherent dangers of the ocean, rocks etc constantly throughout the book.

Not that I am defending Maui Revealed, but from the recent edition [p.61] &quot;Big waves could make it dangerous&quot; and &quot;And avoid getting too close to the unpredictable ocean, which could always send a large wave to pick you off&quot; and &quot;Sometimes, especially during the summer, it can get windy enough that you'll want to blow off this attraction(so to speak)&quot;

Other comments on page 62 encourage visitors to act responsibily:
&quot;Footing can be awkward and slippery;
&quot;please be certain to bring out everything your bring in&quot;;
&quot;it is easy to get sunburned in the placid pools, but we're worried that too much suntan lotion may harm the pools, try to refrain if you can while in the water;&quot;
and referring to bringing back rocks/lava etc from Hawaii&quot;we advise you to leave everything where you find it.&quot;

We used the books on Maui, BI and Oahu and really liked them and found them to be extremely helpful.

It is unfortunate that there 2 people died, but is the book really to blame?
All this IMHO

Debi

I wonder how these two people came to know about the so called &quot;Olivine Pools&quot;?

-Bill

I am sure they read about them somewhere. Or perhpas someone they knew told them. Word of mouth is often how informations is transferred.

Is Maui Revealed the only book that mentions them? I seriously doubt that. We read about them and chose not to go to them.

We did go to Nakalele Blowhole. We read what was written, came to our conclusions and went to see them. We used our own common sense not to walk to the edge of the rocks or close to the hole.

Every person has the ability to think. Information is everywhere, there are few secret spots anywhere anymore.

Debi

Well said Debi. I trusted my instincts and wanted to leave the Olivine pools when are friend took us there.

Debi is right, Olivine Pools and other sites (Blue Pool,...) are in many other guidebooks.

The difference is (IMO) the Revealed books are written in a very accessible way compared to other guidebooks, like they are your best friend, and they have a far wider audience. Personally I am not a fan and the book's tone really annoys me (it seems very arrogant and opinionated). Because of this, I really feel the books have to take some responsibility for tragedies like this.

The books create a lot of hype. I have to say I don't get what the fuss is about many of these so-called hidden gems... when we went to the Olivine Pools we certainly didn't understand the hype surrounding them, the many people scrambling down the rocks in completely unsuitable footwear...

We saw people all over all the islands &quot;scrambling over rocks with inappropriate footwear&quot; including climbing the lave at the end of chain of craters road,&quot; at VNP. And going around with insufficient lighting for return walk in the dark.

Guide books are supposed to be user friendly; if they made a list of fear inducing do's and don'ts...who would buy them? Maybe that is some folks point but remember this, unless you make the islands friendly and inviting -- and not have scare tactics warnings all over-- you will lose the one thing HI doesn't want to lose...tourism.

I live in a very tourist dependant area. And people, despite warnings, do foolish things because they are in &quot;vaction thinking mode&quot; and do things they wouldn't ordinarily do at home.

Just pick up a copy of &quot;Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon.&quot; You won't believe the stupid things people did and ended up getting themselves killed for no good reason except the lack of using reason.

From a review of the book: &quot;<i>The key theme of the book is that most deaths in the Grand Canyon can be avoided if you use common sense and don't take unnecessary risks. Most of the deaths detailed in the book are a direct result of people doing stupid things, liking jumping around or goofing off on the edge of the canyon, hiking very difficult trails (or areas with no well maintained trails) without the experience required and without enough water and food, or trying to run rapids that are too dangerous without life jackets or other safety precautions. There are other numerous examples of unnecessary deaths as a result of carelessness or bad decisions. Most of the deaths in the book could have been prevented by just plain ol' common sense.</i>&quot;

IMHO, as always.
Debi

Optimystic,

Exactly! I couldn't agree with you more. That attitude of arrogance and entitlement screams through in those books and emboldens people to do things that they might normally not do.

There are many layers of responsibilty to this issue and to say that the authors don't have any responsibilty and it is totally on the user in a &quot;buyer beware&quot; type of way is unrealistic at least.

-pila

I agree with Debi and have written about this before, but, there are warnings interspersed throughout the book.

Also, in just about every segment, they say to use common sense and check the conditions before venturing out.

Most every author touts themselves as the experts so they all could be accused of some element of arrogance.

However, they are not the only arrogant ones. I witnessed at least one and have his picture standing on the rocks between the Nakalele Blow Hole and the water.
True, it seemed tame that day, as the blows weren't all that impressive, but the guy totally ignored people calling out to him not to go there.

I'm not saying this is what happened to the couple recently, but some people (like the guy I referenced) just like to tempt fate and be dare devils and some get away with it for awhile.

When I was a younster, I knew a young man (about 8 yrs. old!) who had his own motor boat and liked to play 'chicken' with his friends in it. What were those parents thinking???

I did go to the Olivine pools as well and found a family with children swimming and diving in the pools. I kept what I considered a 'safe' distance, and only stayed briefly.

I'd like to add that I appreciate the insight of the people on this board and was also aware of some of the dangers due to you guys.

I wish some of the people on HI would come up with another book that lists areas they specifically think should be 'off limits' due to danger or infringement. Kind of a contra Bluebook - the other side of the story.

Then people could temper what they read in the BB alittle better with what the Hawaiian people consider respectful and safe.

My point is that the way the books are written opens up their audience to people who wouldn't usually bother with a guidebook.

This board is naturally biased to those who go out exploring and have some common sense and can judge whether it is safe or right to venture someplace.

But the book's general audience is not so biased.

Having lived my whole childhood on an island heavily dependent on tourism, I can understand the backlash.

As imaq says, these books give readers a sense of entitlement. IMO the authors are responsible for that.

Yes, as someone who has been to those pools, trust your intincts. Mine told me to leave, and we did.