Finally Philly!
 

Well, I'm only about five years late for our Philadelphia trip, but the Fearsome Foursome (Tracy, Kim, Mary and I) have decided to visit Philadelphia for five days in May (we were going to to do Seven Days In May, but the title was already taken). We're all history freaks, so that will be our main scope (well, except for that eating and drinking thing).

I'm sure I will have lots of questions...I haven't been there for nearly 40 years. Once I think of some (like where is the best area to stay), I'll be back. Watch out Philadelphia!!!

((H))

Uh, oh. :)

Yay! You'll have a blast- so much good food. I am definitely looking forward to your trip report!

So here's a few things we wanted to see in our 4 1/2 days and five nights...

Barnes Foundation
Battleship New Jersey
Benjamin Franklin Bridge
Benjamin Franklin Museum
Betsy Ross Home
Carpenters' Hall
Cathedral Basilica of Saint Peter and Paul
Christ Church
Christ Church Burial Ground
City Hall
Comcast Center
Declaration House
Eastern State Penitentiary
Elfreth's Alley
Franklin Institute
Gloria dei
Independence Hall
Jon's Bar & Grille (birthplace of a famous American)
Liberty Bell
Masonic Temple
Museum of the American Revolution
Mütter Museum
National Constitution Center
Old Joseph's Church
Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts
Pennsylvania Hospital
Philadelphia Museum of Art
Powel House
Reading Terminal Market
Rittenhouse Square
Rodin Museum
Washington Square

Of course, the above will make for a busy first day (:

Seriously, in 4 1/2 days what do you realistically think we could cover and still have time to enjoy a few Manhattans (with Rittenhouse Rye, of course)? I know the Barnes needs advance reservations...are there others on this list that benefit from reservations made before we leave?

Restaurant suggestions are also appreciated. After Philly we are either going to DC, NYC or make the longer trek to Virginia to check out some presidential homes and torn down Robert E. Lee statues. Still are deciding on those four days. Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.

Please do not show the above list to Tracy, Kim or Mary as they will revolt against me. It will make the Revolutionary War look tame in comparison.

((H))

Some advice from a Philly native:

If you plan your itinerary well and don't dawdle, you might see most of the things on this list. However, trying to do so would mean a lot of rushing from one place to another.

> are there others on this list that benefit from reservations made before we leave?
Your timed ticket to see Independence Hall -- one of the most historically important places on this planet -- might be readily available when you show up, or it might not be. If you plan a specific time to start your tour, and don't want to stand around & wait for one, then you can make advance reservations for a tour at a specific time.

A few tips on what to splice, if time becomes a problem:

The story that Betsy Ross designed & made the first U.S. flag is an obvious falsehood, created (almost) out of thin air. Feel free to skip her home.

There's not much at Pennsylvania Hospital beyond (surprise!) a hospital.

Jon's Bar & Grille -- I'm glad someone else recognizes the genius of this violin player. There's a large mural recognizing his birthplace, but only that.

Getting from Philly to Camden, and then touring the battleship _New Jersey_, will take up half a day. I recommend spending the time within Philly, and viewing the ship from across the river.

Elfreth's Alley is interesting only in that it is (almost) unchanged since the days of Ben Franklin. Other than that, it's just a bunch of row-houses.

Listen to PaulRabe and skip the BR house. Elreths Alley is worth the 10 min it will take to walk through it.

You can walk across the BF bridge and you should be able to glimpse the ship from there.

The Squares are small, pretty parks but that's about it. It is interesting to read about the original planning for the city.

You might also enjoy the Rosenbach Museum near Rittenhouse Square. Make sure you take the house tour. Depending on your interest in archaeology, you might be interested in the Upenn museum.

https://www.penn.museum
Upenn is a gorgeous campus to walk through.

Any particular reason you want to see the Comcast Center?

My list of recommended restaurants will be as long as your list of sites to see. Have you decided where you'll stay? What types of food do you like?

Some stuff depends on your level of interest. For instance the Mutter isn't that big but I read every display, and it was crowded, so it turned into most of an afternoon for me. But then again, I would have gotten through a lot more of your list had I never stepped fit in Reading terminal market;)

Agree about tickets to Independence Hall. That and liberty bell are both worth showing up early for, because you don't want to waste time in line. Cuts into your drinking time!

Grumman Greenhouse was my favorite after the Market and the Mutter. Very cool!

I had a great dinner at Talula's garden. I would go back to Philly for just that and beiler's Amish donuts in the Market- line may be as long as the one for liberty bell but it's definitely worth the wait.

What the hell are you smoking? How can your list not include Pat's, Geno's or both? And Reading terminal? And any little family run restaurant in South Philly? Omission of any of these will result in immediate rescission of your membership in the statin society.

Agreed about the cheesesteaks. And you're missing Little Italy. Eat at Ralph's.

(Seamus, you missed that the OP did mention the Reading Terminal Market.)

The Franklin Institute and the Philadelphia. Museum of Art could each take a full day -- depending on how much you want to see in each place.

I haven't been there in years, but I liked the Betsy Ross house. Even if she didn't make the flag it's neat to go through a house from that era.

The Mutter Museum is certainly unique. I liked it.

I'd include South Street if you enjoy browsing interesting shops and galleries. With your interest in art you could include a visit to the Magic Gardens while you're on South Street. https://www.phillymagicgardens.org

It's hard to tell you what to eliminate because that depends on your personal interests.

I'd say to prioritize because it's unlikely you'll see everything on your list, unless you run from place to place.

Enjoy my hometown!

Thanks for your replies...Much appreciated. Definitely skipping the battleship. I've seen the Iowa in L.A. and Midway in San Diego, plus there's always a chance of me falling down all those stairs which might impact our vacation.

mm, I'll definitely get to those places early. A Rittenhouse is waiting for me (and I don't mean the Square).

seamus, I'll look up Geno's to see what's at "steak" (guess I better load up on my acid reflux pills for this trip) and Songdoc I'll look up Ralph's.

Birdie, I thought I read somewhere that the lobby of the Comcast is interesting (just a walk-by if in we are near).

And Paul, I would never leave out the home of that Fine violin player. (: Thanks for the info.

((H))

You can do a lot in a small area; walking tours are always good. Of course, I like food tours, too, some of which take you out of the downtown like Chew Philly's tour of Chestnut Hill (with the Schmitter, one of the best sandwiches in a city that is a mecca for sandwiches. {Others include Datillo's prosciutto and sharp provolone with roasted peppers, for instance, or Max's cheesesteaks, a short ride up the Broad Street subway but quite possibly a long line.}) Reading Terminal Market is an of course, but you could spend a long time there. One of my current favorites is the broiled scallops at Pearl's Oyster Bar.

A few places not on your list or in the suggestions above are Shofuso, the Japanese house, in an area of Fairmount Park that is lovely in spring; the historic houses of Fairmount Park, including the one purchased by Benedict Arnold for new wife Philadelphian Peggy Shippen; Tinnicum National Wildlife Reserve; Philadelphia History Museum at Atwater Kent; the Dream Garden mosaic (right across from Independence Hall) in the Curtis building.

Restaurants aplenty, but ones with added experience include Victor's Cafe with the singing waiters (and good food, at that) and Marrakesh on Leithgow Street.

Skip the maudlin poetry, and check out some pix and sites on the four pages of my Philadelphia blog: missalg.tumblr.com

IMO, Dirty Frank's has 100x the historic and cultural authenticity than the Betsy Ross house and legend. You can get a decent draft brew or go lowbrow with the $2 Shelf of Shame. http://www.philly.com/philly/food/Ba...ty-franks.html (full disclosure: DH and I got engaged there)

The Oyster House on Sansom Street has good food and a good vibe. A part of each annual visit back to Phila. https://www.zagat.com/r/oyster-house-philadelphia

I've lived in a full range of Phila neighborhoods inc 5th & South, 11th & Rodman, Clinton Street, Brewerytown, Queen Lane, Chestnut Hill and a few others. Rittenhouse Square remains my favorite.

The last time I was there the Comcast lobby had a very interesting multi-media show. It's a short stop--and worth it.

FYI, "Pearl" (of the Reading Terminal's "Pearl's Oyster House") was a cousin of mine. She died decades ago. Next door to Pearl's is Bassett's ice cream, which is quite famous, as well.

WT...I might have to go for the Manhattan at Dirty Frank's. We are staying very near Rittenhouse Square.

Amy and Songdoc...We'll go to Pearl's for Mary and Bassett's for the rest of us.

((H))

My father proposed to my mother at Rittenhouse Square. When I was a kid it was a very elegant place. We would watch the Easter parade there and wealthy society matrons would walk French poodles dyed to match their outfits!

But the last time I was there (maybe ten years ago) it seemed a little seedy. There were people sleeping on benches and kids playing loud music on boomboxes. I'll be curious to hear how it is these days.

Enjoy Pearl's and Bassett's! I could eat my way through the entire market. The Amish food is usually terrific (apple dumplings!). The hard part is deciding where to eat.

PS. I'll be there next month, but I won't have much time. I'm going to attend a family affair.

> I'll be curious to hear how it is these days

It's no longer elegant, but it's also not a dive. It's a family friendly place where people gather to relax & people-watch. There's farmers' markets and/or festivals almost every week, so there's always a lot of activity around.

There MIGHT be people sleeping on benches or listening to boom-boxes, but the place is hardly dominated by either.

"It's no longer elegant, but it's also not a dive."

I lived a block from RS for years and never remember it being truly seedy. It's had the occasional shabby-ish period, mostly when it was all dug up for pipes or cabling work, but overall, it's been able to withstand the test of time pretty well, IMO.

I'm also a fan of Fitler Square, one of my fav squares with some similarities to RS (on a much smaller scale) yet it's well off the usual tourist radar.

Thanks for the RS updates!
I'm glad to hear it has evolved and is still thriving.

I have been to Philly twice and both times I have been told NOT to go to Pat's Or Geno's. However, I cannot remember the name of the place that really had the best cheesesteak. Maybe someone can help us out. I want to say Jim's but that might not be right.

I enjoyed the Philadelphia Historical Museum. It is small and only took about and hour to go through it. It is Philadelphia specific for history. I took a cultural tour of the south side which included South Street and the food shops along 9th in the Italian market.

For an "after hours" event I took a ghost tour. Not so spooky but fun and I think I learned more history on that tour than at Independence Hall.

The best food item I found at Reading Terminal were the cookies at a stand right next to the kitchen gadget booth.

My favorite restaurants were The Little Lion which was on the same street as Independence Hall on 2nd or 3rd. Georgio's on Pine is great for dinner. However it is a BYOB.

I have stayed both times at The Alexander Hotel on 12th & Spruce. Great location and even better service.

It was Jim's, gardendiva, but if you go, you better know how to order or you're going to get the "scowl." Steak, provolone, wid is my usual order. You also brought up another point that Maitaitom should keep in mind. There are a lot of BYOB restaurants in Philadelphia so if having a cocktail is important to you, make sure you book at a place with a liquor license.

Rittenhouse Square is lovely. When I'm in Philly with my dog, I'm in the square at least twice a day. Sometimes very early in the morning or late at night. During the day you'll see families with young children, people walking their dogs, residents of the neighborhood enjoying the outdoors.

The weather should be nice in May so the restaurants facing Rittenhouse will have tables set up along the sidewalk. Any of those three, Devon Seafood, Rouge, and Parc are great places to have a drink or a meal and people watch.

In the Rittenhouse area, I recommend:
Breakfast: a. kitchen, Honeys Sit and Eat (great grits), Day by Day, Metropolitan Bakery and Cafe
Lunch: Parc
Dinner: Fitler Square Dining Room (my favorite), Twenty Manning Grille, Tinto, Vernick (book weeks ahead), Res Ispa.

Agree with songdoc about Magic Gardens. They're wonderful. Otherwise, South Street can be fun, but I'm not sure I'd go out of my way.

If you appreciate good food there are numerous places to go instead of touristy places like Ralph's, Geno's or Pat's.

Ralph's is an old red sauce Italian-American place in South Philly that really is not all that good but lives on its reputation as the oldest or one of the oldest Italian restaurants in the country. Everything is drenched in tomato sauce.

If you want good Italian food go to Tre Scalini, L'Angolo or Gran Caffe L'Aquila.

Geno's and Pat's don't make the top 30 with locals for cheesesteaks. Jim's at 4th & South isn't bad but if you want the full monty cheesesteak experience go to John's Roast Pork at Snyder & Weccacoe.

I'm already dieting to get ready! Thanks.

((H))

big fan of philly.....i recommend Pesto for dinner. family run, just a fun place. we found it on trip advisor.
i would skip the liberty bell, huge line, you can see it from a huge window outside.
take in a phillies game if they are in town, the sports complex is impressive.
barnes foundation - get tickets in advance
don't forget the rodin museum.
pat or gens's - there has to be better cheesesteaks in Philly
reading market - way to crowded.
have a drink at the ritz carlton. its an old bank building, make friends with one of the bell guys, maybe they will give you a tour like they did for me. the bar is nice.
go to the top of the hyatt for a drink for great views.

Not sure if this link will work, but if you want a cheesesteak you need this jawn:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUx4BxZg...rnegladlyteche (Click the button on the photo itself for a very very short video inside.) Max's is an experience.

The movie Creed shows a bit of it--it's in the first part of this cooking demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zru1yk--rGQ But the line of people waiting goes straight across the counter and usually doubled, and there's frequently a line outside.

And the Reading Terminal Market is a must, regardless of how crowded, particularly when the Amish vendors are there. (Wednesday to Saturday, usually.)

If you should head to DC, etc. by car you might enjoy a visit to Winterthur.
Gardens should be in great shape in May.
http://www.winterthur.org/

Here's another negative regarding Geno's and Pat's. Have tried several Philly cheesesteak spots, and they were the worst of the bunch by far. Jim's was easily the best, though, and it's also centrally located. John's Roast Pork reportedly does them well (kind of out of the way and short hours, if memory serves). Tony Luke's at the ballpark was passable, and liked the one at Cosmi's Deli a good bit (again, kind of out of the way). Sonny's, Campo's, and Dolce Carini were varying degrees of middle of the road to below but more centrally located. But they were all notably better than Geno's or Pat's.

And definitely will recommend going to Reading Terminal Market, with DiNic's a particular must for their roast pork with greens sandwich and Bassett's a solid ice cream option.

Other good food choices for me were Sang Kee Peking Duck and Rangoon, both in Chinatown; Franklin Fountain for old fashioned ice cream treats; and Estia for Greek seafood (expensive though).

Will second the Alexander Hotel, good place to stay, conveniently located, great price point.

The attractions list you've gotten is a good one. Can only add a few other things:

Franklin Court
Arch Street Meering House
Mother Bethel African Methodist Episcopal Church
St. Peter's Episcopal Church
Edgar Allan Poe Narional Historical Site
Rosenbach Museum and Library
Academy of Natural Sciences
Independence Seaport Museum
Physick House
Rodin Museum
US Mint
University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology
African-American Museum in Philadelphia
Adventure Aquarium (in Camden on the waterfront close by the Bartleship New Jersey)

The Rosenbach, Rodin, and UPenn Museum are especially good from this list. And if you like the Powel House, the Physick House is close by and just as good. But earlier lists contain many of the most essential must-sees.

Agreed that the Betsy Ross House is less essential than many of the choices suggested, though it's at least close by several other attractions and doesn't take long to see.

How far in advance can I purchase Barnes tickets? Thanks.

((H))

<<The best food item I found at Reading Terminal were the cookies at a stand right next to the kitchen gadget booth. >>

Guessing that was Metropolitan Bakery, there are several others besides in the Reading Terminal, there's one on 19th street, near Rittenhouse Square. The best fig newtons ever!

"Guessing that was Metropolitan Bakery, there are several others besides in the Reading Terminal, there's one on 19th street, near Rittenhouse Square. The best fig newtons ever."

They also have amazing apricot sticks but they only sell them on Sundays.

I am really hoping to see a reenactment of Rocky in your trip report... At least the stairs.

On more serious note--we went to Philly to see colleges in 2015, with a partial day of touring the Liberty Bell and nearby sites. Of course the things we saw were great and we want to go back. But the best part was how nice the people were. Really friendly for a large city.

Also I have a suggestion for when you leave Philly. If you are driving and going south, have you considered a visit to Brandywine battlefield? It gets overlooked, but it was the largest battle of the Revolutionary War. 30,000 combatants. It is on my list for someday. Maybe a local could give us their impressions of it.

> Brandywine battlefield
> Maybe a local could give us their[sic] impressions of it

http://brandywinebattlefield.org/

Since the event was an embarrassing disaster for both George Washington and the Continental Army -- with British General William Howe beating them exactly as he had done in the Battle of Long Island -- it is no surprise that Americans did little to remember the battle. Thus, until fairly recently, there wasn't a lot of preservation or signage here. You can wander the area where the Continentals were encamped, and visit a house where Washington spent a few days, but for the most part, locations specific to the actual battle are in private hands and have little or no signage. Compared to the more expansive and well-marked Valley Forge -- which is administered by the U.S. National Parks Service instead of a private charity -- Brandywine is like the little sibling to a major celebrity. I would recommend it only to history buffs.

Thanks, Paul.

Tom did not have Valley Forge on his list either, so that might be a possibility

As to Brandywine, that is interesting insight about how we--as a country--view the American Revolution. In other wars, our soldiers have been commemorated for their heroism and sacrifice. Maybe that was just the Civil and World Wars though.

"I am really hoping to see a reenactment of Rocky in your trip report... At least the stairs."

I had better get in shape so they don't have to ship my body back home (:

I was wondering if we could combine Gettysburg with Antietam on the same day. We are staying in Staunton...It would be a long, long day, but then again, it is us.

((H))

By all means visit Geno's and Pat's. They are across the street from each other. There probably are better cheese steak options, but Pat's & Geno's is like visiting Pink's & Tommy's in LA...so you get the picture.

There were four of us visiting, also, so we a got a sandwich from each place, cut them in fours & compared. You'll enjoy it!

I spent 2 hours at the Newly opened American Revolution museum in June and on my way, there was NOT a line to see the Liberty bell at 9:30 am on a weekday.

Got our Barnes tickets!

It looks like Independence Hall and Museum of the Revolution also need timed tickets.

Has anyone been to National Constitution Center? Sounds interesting. Does that need advance tickets, as well.

Thanks!

((H))

> Has anyone been to National Constitution Center?
> Does that need advance tickets, as well

In the three times I've visited there, I've simply walked up to the ticket booth and immediately got an admission.

You have the option of getting your timed ticket for "Freedom Rising,"
https://constitutioncenter.org/visit/admission
but I've never had a problem getting into the show almost as soon as I arrive.

Thanks Paul...Looking forward to visiting.

((H))