Farewell and Fair Winds!
 

Well, dear fellow travelers, I’m out of here. I started giving advice on this forum, because I felt too many travelers were being misled by travel agents, travel planners, public relations jocks, and chamber of commerce hacks. Over the last few weeks, I have become convinced that most of the forum participants (especially those who always sign in anonymously) have some sort of professional connection (a few, I suspect, may even work for the competition). <BR> <BR>But there seemed to be a few honest travelers on this forum who were seriously looking for help in making their trips a success. Those I tried to steer in the right direction, drawing on a quarter of a century’s experience of travel, and as a magazine editor in the Pacific Northwest and a writer of west coast travel books. (And the only money I have ever taken for any travel advice came from my publishers.) Unlike Maui Heidi and Noah, I shall not continue to rise from the “dead” (nor shall I sign in under a pseudonym). <BR> <BR>Instead, I shall concentrate on my web site, which has been a great success since I started it up in early February 2000. I’ll be relaxing in my garden, sipping wine and writing another book or two. I shall be enjoying the summer sunshine and the fall rains. I shall revel in the aromas of a thousand flowers, and listen to the song of warblers and the buzz of hummingbirds. (Last night, several raccoons dropped by for a visit, and this morning, a bald eagle soared overhead.) <BR> <BR>In other words, I shall be a <BR> <BR>A purring kitten <BR>Dozing in the catnip in <BR>A bed of flowers. <BR> <BR> <BR>Farewell and fair winds. <BR> <BR>

John, let me get this straight… because a small number of bozos who lack the gene for common courtesy have, by trial and error, discovered how to use the Internet and have found their way to this web site, you are electing to leave. May I assume you do not dine out because you once encountered a wailing infant in your favorite restaurant? Or that you no longer go to films since the time you went and the couple behind you talked during the movie? <BR> <BR>Good, unbiased travel advice is very hard to come by. It is even harder to obtain advice that is current, or that has not been cribbed from last Sunday’s newspaper. It is hardest to find when you are heading off on a special journey and you want that trip to be memorable. These travel boards deliver such nuggets of wisdom. There are people here who are getting – and giving – first-hand answers about everything from Andalusian hostels to Zuni fetishes. Some of it is delivered in straight, declarative sentences; other responses are offered up couched in the kind of earnest, first-hand parables that validate the invention of writing. <BR> <BR>John, my advice is to complain to the management. MauiHeidi trolled for commissions on this site unfettered. Then, some vigilante group got together and, the next thing we knew, every trace of her disappeared – gone into the same purgatory with Dr. Abate and those asking where to find sex for pay in Las Vegas. The “editors@fodors“ really do read their mail. People lose their posting privileges. <BR> <BR>So, before you declare this a lost cause, give the alternative a try. You may be surprised. <BR>

At least it appears Neal plans to stay awhile; thank goodness for more erudite postings.

Well said, Neal!

A magazine editor and a west coast travel book author who has absolutely nothing to gain by posting travel tips? Hmmmmm..... <BR> <BR>You sit in your country garden while you continue to extol the virtues of an urban hell like L.A.? Nothing to gain, huh? You post "announcements" about your books and web site here, but you have nothing to gain, huh? You post here to "steer in the right direction" but have nothing to gain? <BR> <BR>Me thinks he doth protest too much. <BR> <BR>Good riddance!

Dittos to all the above...Don't let the B'tards get ya down. <BR>I appreciated your input on Napa/Sonoma/SF areas. <BR> <BR>I'm still smarting from when you "dissed" my Sacramento area home,tho! You were correct, but.... <BR> <BR>Hang in there and what type of fine <BR>Pac-No'west red wine would you recommend? <BR>Mucho Mahalos, <BR>Kal

I...I...I think I shall cry! How shall we get along without John? Where shall we find unbiased travel information without him? How shall we ever recover from this? Who shall......oh bite me. <BR> <BR>Smell ya later you old wino.

Please reconsider your plans to stop posting. I don't always agree with you, but I respect your opinion and want to continue to learn. It's good to have a variety of opinions, because we are a diverse group.

I've read some of John's variou postings the last several weeks, and have viewed some of the disagreements he has had with other posters. I find it interesting and note worthy that John got tired of this board when people wouldn't agree with him. I also find it interesting that he only took money from editors, but that doesn't constitute a conflict. I also find it strange that anyone who disagreed with him was a "travel agent, travel planner, public relations jock, and chamber of commerce hack." Gee, I didn't know all of you other posters worked in that industry. Face it John, you're like a little kid who decided to take his ball home with him when the other kids didn't want to play the same game. Personally, I feel your condescending attitude towards those of us non-professional travel writers won't be missed. The good folks like Neal, Lani and others on this board will continue the good fight. You, I bet you'll be getting drunk telling all of your editors about how rudely you were treated by this board. Bye, bye, and don't let the door hit you in the a** on your way out.

I appreciated your California advice in planning for my vacation to be taken this summer. As an adult, I form my own opinion as to the validity of any advice given. If you can't deal with the negativity and fakes then you are right in opting out. I have found many people really helpful and choose to screen out the negatives and nitwits. Although I sometimes wonder how people with such negative attitudes even manage to enjoy traveling at all.

Question: What's more annoying than a self-pitying whiner? Answer: A self-righteous, self-pitying whiner who spews flowery prose. <BR> <BR>Mr. Conflict, you hit the nail on the head with your comments. John the Garden Slug is upset because he couldn't easily steer people to his choice venues. <BR> <BR>Adios and sayanara old whine-o. <BR> <BR>

I too find it fascinating that John has no use for travel professionals, and then goes on to explain about his travel writing. I personally don't believe that many posters here are travel agents, chamber of commerce employees, etc. - lurking, waiting to pounce - but even if they were I do have my own brain with which to make decisions. Perhaps if John didn't make remarks like "Bill doesn't know what he's talking about" (Visiting Bellingham Washington thread), he may have got a friendlier reception. And perhaps another problem is in the rather controlling statement, "trying to steer people in the right direction." My paradise might be your dump so I think it's best to just share an opinion for people to take or leave.

Hmmmmm....Noah and John leaving at the same time? COINCIDENCE??? I don't think so??? <BR>The secret is out...CAN THEY BE ONE AND THE SAME??

When I first read this post I marveled that anyone could actually be so self-important as to post a message like this. As if anyone gives a flying fig whether he posts here or not. Why not just stop visiting this site if he's so fed up? <BR> <BR>Then I realized that it's just another shameless plug from someone who has something to sell and is using this site to sell it. Talk about a bag of wind. <BR> <BR>

Ditto. <BR> <BR>And if this guy could write prose one-half as well as he thinks he can, he'd be famous. Perhaps then he wouldn't have the time to come on line and condescend to the rest of us.

hey john, were you expecting anyone to ask the URL of your web site? Glad no one has yet. i must say that in the past i have agreed with alot of your opinions and posts, but you have most of the time come across as condescending, whiny and know-it-all-y. won't really miss ya, dude.

Sounds to me like John himself is the one working for the competition. He's obviously not writing travel pieces for Fodor's, yet here he is, Mr. Travel Book author. How big of him to post here on this board just so the rest of us wouldn't be be "misled." And wasn't that sly the way he slammed the Fodor's board and all its posters, while at the same time slipping in information about his own travel books and web site? What a greaseball. <BR> <BR>As a final farewell to you John, let me just say *buurrrrrp* <BR> <BR>

ROTFL John. I'd say more, but a few people above me said most of what I wanted to say already when they said... <BR> <BR>"You sit in your country garden while you continue to extol the virtues of an urban hell like L.A.? " <BR> <BR>"I find it interesting and note worthy that John got tired of this board when people wouldn't agree with him...........Personally, I feel your condescending attitude towards those of us non-professional travel writers won't be missed. " <BR> <BR>"Question: What's more annoying than a self-pitying whiner? Answer: A self-righteous, self-pitying whiner who spews flowery prose." <BR> <BR>".........another problem is in the rather controlling statement, "trying to steer people in the right direction." <BR> <BR>"When I first read this post I marveled that anyone could actually be so self-important as to post a message like this. As if anyone gives a flying fig whether he posts here or not." <BR> <BR>".........if this guy could write prose one-half as well as he thinks he can, he'd be famous." <BR> <BR>".....you have most of the time come across as condescending, whiny and know-it-all-y. won't really miss ya, dude." <BR> <BR>Goodbye to bad rubbish! <BR> <BR>

Hmmm. I guess this thread is a cautionary tale indeed. Many of us discovered this board one way or the other and became sufficiently interested to begin posting responses. I have never seen anyone announce on their first post, "I'm here now, so you can all relax now as I am here to save you from all of the incompetent, biased advice you have been getting." But for some reason, certain individuals seem to feel the need to announce their departure. Perhaps this suggests that it is all too easy to develop a grossly overblown view of oneself and one's contributions to this board to the point that one can believe that others might actually care if one suddenly decided not to post further. <BR> <BR>I hope it never happens to me. If you ever see such a "goodbye" post from me, it will not mean that I have decided not to post further. It will mean I am about to leave this earth. So it really would be a goodbye. <BR>

I'm nervous !! It can't be this easy.First we've heard nothing more from old AMS(PMS?)and now Sir John the garden meister extraordinary just folds his hand and blows away.There must be a strong rebuttal coming this way soon.

I'm with Neal, Beth and Howard. I have enjoyed your postings and appreciate a sophisticated traveler's point of view. <BR>That's what I hoped this board would be. Unfortunately voices such as yours are few and far between. <BR> <BR>Hey, this board is for expressing opinions, folks. If you don't seem to share that particular writer's taste, obviously that person's opinion is not for you. <BR> <BR>Back to you, John. I fully sympathize if you have better use of your time. And to be fair about this, I for one would like to be able to find your web site. Heidi's fans provided her email address after her departure, and she clearly was recommending certain vendors over others equally as good, and in some cases much better than the ones she recommended. Not only did that violate the spirit of this board, but in many instances her advice was just not the best, although it may have been well-meaning. <BR> <BR>In your case, your comments have been broad, impressionistic, and non-commercial. They go to discovering the sense of place, rather than providing the conventional spin of mass-market tourism. And they've come from a broad traveler's perspective. <BR> <BR>But in order not to cast doubt upon my motives, or upon yours, I'll email you directly with my request. <BR> <BR>Cheers! <BR> <BR>

Nice try John (aka areader), but you went a little overboard with your self-congratulations there. If you were going to e-mail yourself anyway, why bother to post here? <BR> <BR>You may want to lay off the sauce for a while until you sober up. <BR>

Good grief! Not only is John back after only two days, he hasn't the depth of expression to disguise his usual flowery writing style. "Impressionistic." "Conventional spin of mass-market tourism." "Discovering the sense of place." "From a broad traveler's perspective" (though hopefully not referring to John's girth). <BR> <BR>Come on John. If you're going to stroke yourself, do it someplace private. <BR>

"Not only is John back after only two days, he hasn't the depth of expression to disguise his usual flowery writing style." You took the words right out of my mouth. John, why don't you just shut up and go away like you ANNOUNCED.

Now that's REALLY funny. I really AM lol. Thanks for making my day! <BR> <BR>I'm "areader" and I'm not John. I just enjoyed his posts, and his ability to write in English. I kind of disagree about the "flowery writing style" that you attribute to him and me; some of us went to college. Really, Heis, you shouldn't feel threatened by words such as "impressionistic". And, as someone who's been to Maui often, I felt that Heidi was not the best source of information. As far as John the epicure's girth, I frankly don't know, and I don't care. I'm fairly buff myself. <BR> <BR>What I appreciated (and still do) is his unconventional and un-main-stream advice on places he knows well. But I guess you'd have to BE a traveler to know one. <BR> <BR>Hey, I'll play into your and Johnny come-lately's little fantasy/fallacy if for no other reason than to send this back to the top! This is FUN! Just keep it clean. Peace.

Hey, Stuart, my man, it's you, the person with not a single original thought! I guess you've learned how to use the cut and paste! Good going, guy. It's a good skill. But hey, guess what? I'm still not John @gardener.com. Just a reader. Choos!

If areader isn't John then he's John's doppelganger (or live-in lover). Charter members of the Pompous Ass Club whose chief goal in life is trying to string as many adjectives together in one sentence as possible. I could see that college edumacation shining through in every overwrought and overblown sentence. <BR> <BR>Bottom line: John was never as important or welcome here as he thought. Advice from a hypocrite always lacks credibility.

To Goodbye, the ultimate judge of character. Who's the hypocrite? <BR>What have you contributed here? I happened to like John's posts. Please steer me on to those you approve.

Don't get your undies in a bunch there areader! We know you like to be steered, but that's John's job now. Have him saddle you up and you can play horsey all you want. Yeehah!

Please let John and "areader" rest in peace and lets move on to another subject, such as how your life has improved since John stopped telling you how great he was.

Bend, wrong again.

More proof that "a reader " is John the man who never shuts up is the fact areader makes multiple posts on the same thread over and over just so he can have the last word. And here he is above doing the same thing over and over. When anyone posts he HAS to respond and have the last word. He'll do it again here I'd bet $100 on. See below.

To Johngardener/areader: Don't you get an idea from all the negative posts here and on other subjects I have come across where negative comments were said about your overwhelming opinions on everything, that people on these travel boards *don't* care for your advise on the whole and are *glad* you claim that you will be leaving? I say claim as it is clearly evident you have not left here yet. So why not fold your tent and disappear for good into that starry Los Angeles night?

to the top

Hey topper..are you suddenly sending this to the top after this thread has being long, long gone because you have noticed as I have that John is back again and now posting as John ([email protected])? <BR>Isn't it interesting how these egomaniacs that love to be the center of attention and bail out loudly when people don't treat them as royalty always come back again in a short while after they swear they will never post/be at some place ever again? Ha ha. <BR>

Verrrrrry interesting... Also a post here from the absent One Travelers' Opinion....

So, who cares? You guys could be SOOO way off. Where's the proof? And where is it against Fodor's rules to post if you have a big ego? At least these folks have something to say!

FYI, I'm not that John, I haven't been away, and if you have a problem with my postings you can write me because I don't hide behind a fake address.

John ([email protected]) <BR>If you are not the same John that this thread is about, then how is it you knew people were saying it was you here? There is nothing about this threads name at all that would suggest you would be mentioned in it. So it's interesting that read this thread and then you also read all these posts under this thread until you got down to post 35 to see yourself discussed. Unless you were the John who started this thread months ago and wondered why it was suddenly back at the top.

Using that same reasoning, Vance, how come you're reading this thread?