family relocation advice
 

Hi,
I realize this is a travel forum, but I've read quite a few posts regarding relocation, so here goes.
I am considering relocating my family from my CapeCod location. I've researched many different areas and traveled to a few.
Before I start, some info on me. I have 3 kids, 9 and under. I currently live in a town of under 10,000 and would like to stay that way. I'd like to be within 2 hours of a City and within 1-2 hours of either the Mountains or the Ocean.
I have primarly focused on the South
and the Mountain West.
So far I've looked into the following:
1 - Utah
a. Provo
b. Heber City
2 - FloridaPanhandle
a. Niceville
b. Navarre
3 - NC
a. Ashville
4 - Colorado
a. Just about everywhere

Prime concerns of mine are:
1 - Cost of Living
2 - Education
3 - Safe neighborhoods
4 - Acceptence of "outsiders"
5 - Recreational activities

Thanks in advance :)

Have you considered northwest Montana?

My pick would be Provo or Asheville - I like mountains and both seem friendly enough. Provo is close to an international airport, great skiing, National Parks to the North, South and East.

One question, Why on earth would you want to leave the Cape??

I have and would consider NW Montana. Any suggestions for areas of research?

I do love the cape. However, a couple of factors are pointing me toward relocation. One, is the housing costs are very high and I have alot of equity in my house. Another, is related to employment opportunities. In my profession, software, there are very few.

I live in Tampa, FL. Unless you plan to home-school, I would suggest that you check into the local schools in Niceville and Navarre, FL. My brother lives in west Panama City Beach and the schools are not impressive. Also, if you're in the software business, I don't know what's available for you, although maybe you do. The area is not known for its industry. As for accepting outsiders, in Florida most people are from somewhere else. The natives tend to cluster together and the outsiders do the same. As for property value, waterfront in Florida is escalating at a faster clip than inland properties, but all are rising.

Aside from that, this is a beautiful area that is growing tremendously. Eglin Air Force base in Ft. Walton might be a source of income for you.

I like the options you have laid out, except for the Panhandle. It seems that if you are really looking for natural beauty and recreation, Florida is a little out of place.

As for the others, I like them all. Utah can be a little wary of outsiders, so beward. But a place like Provo might have enough transplants so it is commonplace for outsiders to be part of the community. Colorado = expensive. I don't think you will get any break whatsoever on cost of living, unless if you far away from the mountains which would defeat the purpose. Plus, it is already overrun with outsiders.

I love NW Montana... Missoula.... with the University in town, there might be some creative job opps.

Have you considered Washington State? You can get an hour outside of Sea-Tac and have some gorgeous, smaller areas.

Mark Asheville off your list. Housing has gone through the roof up there. My inlaws live in Asheville.

Hendersonville, about 40 minutes away is very charming and not quite as expensive.

Knoxville, TN is a great place to raise a family. Close to the mountains but only 6 1/2 hours from the coast. Farragut or Maryville City schools are the best. The 4 seasons are great here.

Hendersonville's housing is not any longer less expensive than Asheville's. Unless you are interested in buying a trailer. We did an extensive research for our father and his wife who just moved to Knoxville, TN where they bought a house for a half what they would pay in Asheville or Hendersonville.

If you're not a Mormon, you'll be second or third class citizens in Utah.
M

Post Falls, Idaho

A lot depends on how you define "outsider". Religion, for instance, can make one an outsider regardless of the birthplaces of one's neighbors. This is, of course, an issue in Utah if you are not LDS, but depending on what religion you follow (or more critically, do not follow) it might also be an issue in most of the South, except near secular universities.

One thing I noticed about all of your possible choices is that they are all "red", politically speaking. Very. If you are a liberal who feels strongly about being a liberal, you should probably be looking at college towns only in most of those states. (Note that in Utah, the "college town=fairly liberal" rule does not really apply. Provo is still majority LDS, at least according to my non-LDS friends who live there.)

OK, I live in Utah and also went to school in Provo.

Utah is a realtively safe place to live and has unlimited outdoor recreational opportunities. HOWEVER:

Education - Utah spends more than 50% of its entire state budget on education. Yet, $ spent per student ranks 48th out of the 50 states! Classrooms are crowded and seriously underfunded. Teachers have some of the lowest pay rates in the US.

Acceptance of Outsiders - if you are not LDS, your children will not be included. LDS children are encouraged to socalize with other LDS kids. Their parents are so busy with church obligations and socializing, that they will not have the time or inclination to socialize with you.

You also have to be willing to accept the ugly fact that if you are liberal, your vote will (almost) never count for anything. When Utah actually elected a Democrat to congress (Matheson) four years ago, the state legislature reacted by gerrymandering the district so that the Democratic "hotbed" (Park City & Salt Lake proper) were split up and Matheson wouldn't get re-elected. He did anyway and has since been reelected again this year.

You should also be very aware that taxes and housing costs are high in Utah. Utah ranks 7th out of 50 states in taxes.

If you can accept these negatives, then Utah is a great place to live.

You can lessen the impact some of the negatives by choosing carefully where you live. My town, Park City , is happy to be known as the "sinners" of Utah.

Some neighborhoods in Salt Lake are quite nicely balanced too, "The Avenues", and Sugarhouse.

I would never recommend for someone non-LDS to live in Provo or Heber.

Good luck, hope this helps.

Population under 10,000? I would think that towns so small would really be struggling, especially in the area of education.

North Andover Massachusetts, population about 20,000, made Money Magazines list of top 5 best places to live in the east.

Thanks for all the responses. I've checked out the Niceville and Navarre schools and they are rated among the highest in FLA. Thanks for the tips regarding Ashville. I will look into the Knoxville area as well. Thanks for the Utah feedback as well. I've been in Provo for buisness and feel in love with the area. I'm not really concerned about the red state vs. blue state issue. In any case, I've been researching using all of the "cost of living" tools available on the web, but realize that opinions from people who live in the various area's are much better indicators. I'm also open to hearing about area's in SC, Georgia, etc. Thanks again.

tracys2cents,

Not sure how you got from point A to point B on the small town=struggling education thing...I don't think that's the norm.

Class size in our four local elementary schools (town pop. 14,000) range from 14-19. My husband's on the school board and I know that keeping class size numbers down is a high priority for the district. As far as I can tell, opportunities within the local schools (speaking of technology, course offerings, etc.)is the same or better than those of the city in which we used to live (pop. 230,000). IMHO, education quality definitely has more to do with the city and state's commitment to education than it does anything else.

You might want to check out Columbus, SC neighboring towns. I've visited Lexington, not sure about the size. This area is growing and is so rich in the arts, what with the University and capital in Columbus. SC spends more per capita on the arts than any other state, so they brag.

Do you mean Columbia, SC?

Asheville, NC has way more than 10,000 people and is one of the more expensive areas to live in the state. It might be within 2 hours of Charlotte, but Charlotte is nothing like Boston.

Consider Northfield, MN. It's about 45 south of the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul; it's a college town with a population of 17K; it has excellent schools; and the jobs picture in MN is fairly bright. It isn't near mountains, but it's about 4 hours from the North Shore of Lake Superior, which does a good impression of the ocean! Good luck!

ncgrrl, you're right. columbia is what I meant. Columbia, SC.

Ditto to what Dayle said. Provo is beautiful, but if you are not LDS - forget it. My good friend was raised there and was not LDS. He is still bitter about his experiences of being left out as a child! I have heard that things have not changed. It truly would be hard on your kids. Salt Lake is somewhat different because of the larger University and medical school - people from all over are there. Park City is awesome!
Colorado would be very nice as well. Under 10,000 people though? Ft. Collins wouldn't fit that bill, but it's a nice town. Breckenridge is a great mountian town.

There are any number of communities in Oregon with proximity to both mountains and the ocean that meet your criteria.

Knoxville and Asheville definitely have more than 10K inhabitants. I think it is difficult in most areas of the South to find that level of tolerance that you are looking for in a small town. You may be better off looking north of the Mason-Dixon line. Maybe somewhere in MD...There are some cute towns in SC and GA but I think maybe it would be a pretty dramatic change for you over Mass.

You might check out Boone, NC, a nice little college town in western North Carolina's high country. It's about 10,000 population, and just under two hours from Charlotte. Real estate is expensive, but so are a lot of the other areas mentioned here.

You are right about the schools in Niceville and Navarre - they are excellent. The cost of housing is quite high though. Real Estate has doubled in the last five years. Seems others around the country are finding out about the area and the beautiful white sand beaches. But if you are use to prices in Cape Cod - this should be affordable for you - maybe even cheap. I personally love the panhandle - the people are open and friendly. You do have seasons here - without the snow and bitter cold. Winter is highs in the 60's. One problem is that Hurricane Ivan did a huge number on Navarre - Niceville being on the other side of the bay and farther east made out much better. Good Luck wherever you choose.

cctraveler: I don't know if you still want opinions or not but I just had to offer mine.

I have lived in Tallahassee, FL all my life (50 years) and I love it here. I'm a semi-world traveler and have been all over the US. There are very few places I would even consider living over Tallahassee or the Big Bend/Panhandle area. We are 20 miles north of the Gulf of Mexico; Pensacola is 200 miles to the west and Jacksonville is 200 miles to the south; Georgia is 30 miles to the north; we are the capital city of Florida and have 2 major universities here; we have about 250,000 citizens with a good portion of those being students. The Apalachian mountain chain dumps into the Gulf of Mexico right here (St. Marks) so we are quite "hilly" but if you want to see mountains a weekend drive up US27 to Pine Mountain, Ga is fantastic. It takes no time at all to get around Tallahassee - we have a slow, friendly pace of life. Our cost of living is MUCH cheaper than central/south Florida. The education system in Leon County is excellent (ok, I had to say that, that's who I work for). After all I'm a 3rd generation graduate of the local schools - lol. With all the above in mind, the Tallahassee area offers many wonderful & interesting things to see & do.

You can email me with any questions about North Florida if you put this area on your list ([email protected]). I don't mind helping at all.

What about New Mexico? I don't know about the job market or education there, but it's beautiful scenery, less expensive than Arizona and Colorado, and multi-cultural.

Breckenridge (mentioned by someone else above) is a lovely town but since it's a ski town the prices are really high and there's little in way of tech careers up there (and I can't imagine commuting from there to Denver on a daily basis). With all the growth along the Front Range, they can't seem to build schools fast enough. Doesn't mean education is bad, just that many schools are at or past capacity.

Tech sector in Colo. (much of the West, I believe) is still recovering from lots of layoffs over the past few years. Might not affect you, depending on what you specialize in, but something to be aware of.

We've been looking for places to "retire" (although we're not REALLY retiring for another 7-8 years) and just spent 3 days in North Carolina. It's a lovely state and there are some great and inexpensive towns easily within 1 hour of a "city" (Raleigh/Durham) and not too far from either mountains or the ocean to preclude easy weekend trips. Checkout Pittsboro, Burlington and Mebane. Plus, with three kids under age 9, you will find good schools and access eventually, to probably the best state college system in the US (maybe excepting CA).

Thanks to all for the feedback! I really appreciate all the leads.

CCTraveler,

western Colorado is a great place to live. Specifically Palisade, Colorado in the Grand Junction area. Palisade is small, around 1,500 but if you need city then Grand Junction is only 13 miles away. Palisade has orchards, wineries, and a nice micro brewery. Recreation wise we have everything that Utah has including Utah National Parks (Canyonlands and Arches) are 100 miles away. Plus we have mountains. Check us out, you will like what you see.

BeanMan
Palisade, Colorado

I've done a bit of research on the area surrounding Grand Junction, CO. ( Thanks BeanMan ). Can you tell me a bit more about the economics of the area? I.E. Jobs? Thanks!

CCT,

Sorry to have taken so long to reply, I have been out of town. Jobs can be a little thin here but if you have good skills you will find a job. housing costs are lower than the rest of the state but payscale is lower too. The lifestyle is the payoff.

Cheers,

BeanMan
[email protected]

Missoula would be wonderful but housing prices are quite high and job opportunities are not great.

I'm surprised at the responses suggesting you would find intolerance toward outsiders in the South. I've never seen any evidence of that, although admittedly I've lived in the NW corner of SC all my life. I have friends and acquaintances from all over and I've never heard that mentioned.

As for religion, I'm sure some of your new neighbors would invite you to come to their church. It would only be polite. I don't think anyone will be offended if you decline.

School systems are hit-or-miss. You would have to research each individual school in the area.

Asheville is indeed pricey. Brevard NC is a nice little town. Tryon NC is a "horse-y community" (and Landrum, SC just across the border) Beautiful area, you might feel left out if you don't ride, though. I mention it because it is full of transplants and retirees from up north.

I'm in Greenville, SC. It's one of those "nice place to live but you wouldn't want to visit there" kind of places. Just for reference, we are 3.5 hours from Charleston beaches, 1 hour from Asheville & mountains, 2.5 hours from Atlanta for your "city" fix. Employment is pretty good here, property taxes are not bad. Not sure about software opportunities. I paid $5500/acre for my 42 acres. With a 2400 sq ft house we pay less than $1000 in property taxes. SC state income tax maxes at 7%.

It's not the small town you're looking for, i just wanted to give you some specific data on the region.

Good luck.

We lived in North Carolina and were quite happy to see the last of it when we moved to Iowa. A bill had been introduced into the NC state legislature to convert all public schools into private academies ("The Pearsall Plan"). That did it. We did not want our children made to pay the price of racist politicians who simply wanted to stir up the rednecks in order to avoid school integration. Fortunately, the plan failed to pass. But the bad taste still sticks in our mouths.

The people will smile at you and drip honey all over you, but you will still be "Yankees" and who your grandparents were is a much more important factor in social acceptance than you could ever believe. Times change, we know, and maybe this kind of exclusive attitude has diminished. Just remember; this is the state that elected and reelected people like Jesse Helms, over and over again. The smaller the town, the more backward are the attitudes.

I sure wasn't looking to start anything in regards to my concern about acceptance of outsiders. My main concern is that my children will easily be able to acclimate themselves into the local school system.
As an update, I've got an interview scheduled with folks in Grand Junction Colorado.... so any more information regarding the communities local to there would be great. BeanMan, thanks for the info on Palisades. Another piece of community information that is important to me is town recreation programs. I'm really involved in my current towns program and would like to continue this involvement where ever I end up.

leahinSC: OMG - Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon line!! I just know your not calling us yanks!

Blue Structure - my geographical faux pas...having lived in MD and DC and then in Columbia, SC and Beaufort SC and now in Asheville, NC ... I stand by my opinion that it is easier to be a newcomer in an area that is more "northern" in its attitude...while there certainly are some exceptions in the South (Asheville, Charlotte, Atlanta...), a small town would not be one of them.

CCT,

Grand Junction has a very good recreation program for kids and adults. There are many team type sports, soccer, softball etc. The facilities such as parks, playing fields, swimming pools are good to great. There are also adult learning classes both through GJ Parks and Rec and through Mesa State College. The Avalon Theater attracts good music (we saw John Prine last week) and is a good concert venue. The growing town of Fruita has the cheapest housing, my choice is of course Palisade. The Redlands and North GJ have the higher end housing. If you would like more questions answered please feel free to E-Mail me.

[email protected]

BeanMan