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-   -   Earthquake in Hawaii (https://www.fodors.com/community/united-states/earthquake-in-hawaii-652995/)

P_M Oct 18th, 2006 02:48 PM

gigib, I bet the fishies are OK. I've heard animals know disasters are coming before we do. Now if only we could find a way to get the fishies to warn us. :-)

bluefan Oct 21st, 2006 09:50 PM

Sorry for this late addition to this thread as I've been away from fodor's forums for a while. But I can't help but contribute after seeing a couple posts advising "DUCK, COVER & HOLD" during an earthquake, which in reality is bad (DEADLY) advice!!!

The following makes very interesting reading. It goes against everything you've probably been told about how to survive an earthquake.

EXTRACT FROM DOUG COPP'S ARTICLE ON THE "TRIANGLE OF LIFE"

Edited by Larry Linn for MAA Safety Committee brief on 4/13/04.

My name is Doug Copp. I am the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of the American Rescue Team International (ARTI), the world's most experienced rescue team. The information in this article will save lives in an earthquake.

I have crawled inside 875 collapsed buildings, worked with rescue teams from 60 countries, founded rescue teams in several countries, and I am a member of many rescue teams from many countries. I was the United Nations expert in Disaster Mitigation for two years. I have worked at every major disaster in the world since 1985, except for simultaneous disasters

In 1996 we made a film which proved my survival methodology to be correct.

The Turkish Federal Government, City of Istanbul, University of Istanbul Case Productions and ARTI cooperated to film this practical, scientific test. We collapsed a school and a home with 20 mannequins inside. Ten mannequins did "duck and cover," and ten mannequins I used in my "triangle of life" survival method. After the simulated earthquake collapse, we crawled through the rubble and entered the building to film and document the results. The film, in which I practiced my survival techniques under directly observable, scientific conditions, relevant to building collapse, showed there would have been zero percent survival for those doing duck and cover. There would likely have been 100 percent survivability for people using my method of the "triangle of life."

This film has been seen by millions of viewers on television in Turkey and the rest of Europe, and it was seen in the USA, Canada and Latin America on the TV program Real TV.

The first building I ever crawled inside of was a school in Mexico City during the 1985 earthquake. Every child was under their desk. Every child was crushed to the thickness of their bones. They could have survived by lying down next to their desks in the aisles. It was obscene, unnecessary and I wondered why the children were not in the aisles. I didn't at the time know that the children were told to hide under something.

Simply stated, when buildings collapse, the weight of the ceilings falling upon the objects or furniture inside crushes these objects, leaving a space or void next to them. This space is what I call the "triangle of life". The larger the object, the stronger, and the less it will compact. The less the object compacts, the larger the void, the greater the probability that the person who is using this void for safety will not be injured. The next time you watch collapsed buildings, on television, count the "triangles" you see formed. They are everywhere. It is the most common shape, you will see, in a collapsed building. They are everywhere.

TEN TIPS FOR EARTHQUAKE SAFETY

1) Do Not Duck and Cover

Most everyone who simply "ducks and covers" when buildings collapse are crushed to death. People who get under objects, like desks or cars, are crushed.

2) Triangles Save Lives

Cats, dogs and babies often naturally curl up in the fetal position.

You should too in an earthquake. It is a natural safety/survival instinct.

You can survive in a smaller void. Get! next to an object, next to a sofa, next to a large bulky object that will compress slightly but leave a void next to it.

3) Wonderful Wood

Wooden buildings are the safest type of construction to be in during an earthquake. Wood is flexible and moves with the force of the earthquake.

If the wooden building does collapse, large survival voids are created.

Also, the wooden building has less concentrated, crushing weight. Brick buildings will break into individual bricks. Bricks will cause many injuries but less squashed bodies than concrete slabs.

4) Roll Out of Bed

If you are in bed during the night and an earthquake occurs, simply roll off the bed. A safe void will exist around the bed. Hotels can achieve a much greater survival rate in earthquakes, simply by posting a sign on the back of the door of every room telling occupants to lie down on the floor, next to the bottom of the bed during an earthquake.

5) Curl-Up

If an earthquake happens and you cannot easily escape by getting out the door or window, then lie down and curl up in the fetal position next to a sofa, or large chair.

6) Do Not Stand in Doorways.

Most everyone who gets under a doorway when buildings collapse is killed. How? If you stand under a doorway and the doorjam falls forward or backward you will be crushed by the ceiling above. If the door jam falls sideways you will be cut in half by the doorway.

In either case, you will be killed!

7) Never go to the stairs. The stairs have a different "moment of frequency" (they swing separately from the main part of the building).

The stairs and remainder of the building continuously bump into each other until structural failure of the stairs takes place.

The people who get on stairs before they fail are chopped up by the stair treads - horribly mutilated. Even if the building doesn't collapse, stay away from the stairs. The stairs are a likely part of the building to be damaged. Even if the stairs are not collapsed by the earthquake, they may collapse later when overloaded by fleeing people.

They should always be checked for safety, even when the rest of the building is not damaged.

8) Get Near the Outer Walls Of Buildings Or Outside Of Them If Possible

It is much better to be near the outside of the building rather than the interior. The farther inside you are from the outside perimeter of the building the greater the probability that your escape route will be blocked

9) Get Outside That Car

People inside of their vehicles are crushed when the road above falls in an earthquake and crushes their vehicles; which is exactly what happened with the slabs between the decks of the Nimitz Freeway.

The victims of the San Francisco earthquake all stayed inside of their vehicles.

They were all killed.

They could have easily survived by getting out and sitting or lying next to their vehicles. Everyone killed would have survived if they had been able to get out of their cars and sit or lie next to them. All the crushed cars had voids 3 feet high next to them, except for the cars that had columns fall directly across them.

10) Choose a Void

I discovered, while crawling inside of collapsed newspaper offices and other offices with a lot of paper, that paper does not compact. Large voids are found surrounding stacks of paper.

Spread the word and save someone's life!

DebitNM Oct 22nd, 2006 07:46 AM

I have never heard of this procedure and it makes sense to me. Anyone else think so too?
Debi

fdecarlo Oct 22nd, 2006 09:41 AM

Not really. When it comes to earthquakes common sense should dictate what you do. There is no one right set of actions to take.

Doug's list is based on his experiences in Turkey and other third-world countries, which unfortunately do not have the same strict building codes as the U.S. A wood frame structure built to modern U.S. code standards almost certainly will not collapse in an earthquake, unless of course it's unlucky enough to be sitting directly over enough fault movement to split the foundation (you have to be VERY unlucky for this to happen).

Look at the Northridge quake, Loma Prieta, even the great Alaska quake, homes and other wood frame structures shook like hell yet very few of them collapsed.

Rusty Oct 22nd, 2006 01:17 PM

TheAmerican Red Cross does not agree with Doug Copps. Many people think that Doug Copps is a "rescue expert fraud".

"Self-proclaimed rescue guru Doug Copp's mission to ground zero was considered so important that he had clearance to be flown to New York even though all civilian air traffic in the United States had been grounded. Once there, he says he assumed a pivotal role and sustained devastating injuries while wading through the "toxic soup" in search of survivors and victims, and was awarded nearly $650,000 for his injuries. But there is little evidence Copp performed real rescue work, and it is doubtful that he deserves compensation.

Doug Copp was awarded $649,000, tax free, from the fund set up to compensate victims of 9/11. He says it's not enough. But it's doubtful he deserves anything. A Journal investigation found little evidence that Copp did real rescue work in New York. His forays into the rubble were to shoot video, some of which he tried to sell. His claim of seeking medical care within the time frame appears false. All typical of Copp's years as a self-proclaimed rescue guru."

Rusty Oct 22nd, 2006 01:22 PM

Apparently his name is Doug Copp (not Copps) and if you google Doug Copp you will find all kinds of things that bring his credibility into question. For example, check this web site.
http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_o...er_hero_w.html

bluefan Oct 22nd, 2006 05:14 PM

wow, i never knew the guy was so controversial (or credibility questioned)...a lot of his advice sounds quite sensible

having suffered through several earthquakes here in CA and one in HI, i'm grateful for the strict building codes in the US in spite of the higher costs and regulatory annoyances

DebitNM Oct 22nd, 2006 05:50 PM

OMG! I didn't realize this was they guy that The Albuquerque Journal did that series on!! I couldn't believe it when I first read it. What a leach! He made so much money on the heartache and losses of other.

Forget my early comment about this being an interesting idea!
Debi




iamq Oct 22nd, 2006 06:37 PM

Hucksterism is live and well.


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