While I think it is not realistic to drive from SFO to NYC, ss you have a month here, try to get/rent a car/van and drive some of the western USA. You do not get a good image of the US if you are only in big cities. The drive either up the coast from SFO to Oregon OR down the coast to LA or San Diego, is fabulous. Try to get in a road trip, even if it is a small one while you are here.

You really can;t wait untill you get here to plan the trip.

Everything will end up costing more, many things will be sold out, and you'll have a very frustrating experience. (For instance, Dec is high season for NYC hotels - and some are already selling out. to get a decent hotel at any sort of affordable price you should be reserving now. Also tickets for B'way shows are selling now.)

Also - DO not focus on trains. Long-distance train service in the US is pitiful. Scheduled service is excrutiatingly slow - and usually many hours late (since the tracks are owned by the freight companies and passenger trains have to pull aside and wait for freight trains to go through). In addition to being late, and usually unpleasant, trains almost always cost more than flights - often much more.

(The only trains that work well are the local commuter trains around a few major cities and Amtrak in the NE corridor between Boston and DC.)

You have no idea how mobbed NYC is a Christmas - and how expensive - unless you do all the planning in advance.

I have driven cross country twice in December - once from Denver to Boston and once from Seattle to Chicago.

I can tell you it is most definitely not fun. There is nothing to see for much of it (read empty, snow-covered corn fields) Add to that having to do it in that short a time = not a fun trip.

In contrast, I drove Boston to Seattle (via Key West, NOLA, Grand Canyon, etc, totaling 7200 miles) in September and it's one of the best 3 weeks I've ever spent. Plusses - Decent time of year and lots of time to do it.

OK - you have received more info than you probably want to digest. But I think your plan is to drive SF > NYC > SF in the middle of your month in California. Right?

If so - <b><u>that is an insane idea</u></b>.

Then you are considering trains. Also not terribly sane. Last week the main cross country train that passes through my city enroute to SF was 13 hours late -- in the summer! In winter all bets are off.

and finally - deciding at the last minute to fly will mean top dollar air fares and very expensive hotels in NYC

Have you thought about looking into the Drive-away option. There are companies in the USA where you drive someone's car from point A to B (in your case you'd need someone who wanted their car delivered from SF to NY.) This could be a much cheaper option than hiring a car but I believe there is always a fairly tight timeframe in which to get the car to the destination. You only pay for petrol I think. Have often thought it sounded good but have never tried it. Google Drive Away.

Good luck. We're Australians and used to driving long distances. I think your trip sounds fabulous but the weather sounds like it could make or break it.
Kay

Bradford, have you booked your tickets to San Francisco yet? If not, you may want to consider booking New Zealand (AKL?) to SFO and NYC to AKL. Then you'd only be driving one direction. I plugged in some random December dates and it only added $300-400 to the price of the ticket.

I think driving ONE-WAY across the country would be a lot of fun; if you took a southern route you could avoid some of the nastier weather and see a lot of amazing sights -- Vegas, the Grand Canyon, the Painted Desert, etc. But I think the idea of a return trip by car is what makes the original plan insane! I'd put NYC on the end of the trip, so you can just go home afterwards :)

P.S. Before someone flames me for lumping in Vegas with the Grand Canyon, I should clarify -- by &quot;amazing sights&quot; I meant &quot;things that are fun to visit on a 5000-mile road trip.&quot; ;)

Insane? No way! As an alternative, you could look into hitchiing a ride to NYC with Santa Claus.

Thanks everyone.

I think, first and foremost, I have had a naieve view of the distances involved, and the ground that needs to be covered. Like my Australian friends, I am quite happy to get in a car and drive all day, but I have never done it in a snow-jam.

As a Kiwi, I may also have a rose-tinted view of travelling across the States - too many road movies - although we did the New England circuit a couple of years back and loved it.

But maybe not in winter. And maybe not without a little more time up our sleeves.

This is the plan (as of last night). There's some good flights on Southwest for $150 each way if I leave it until early Jan. We will do a weekend trip (Fri- Mon) and there's a funky hotel on 25th St that does $180 a room for four people (carltonarms.com) - I have heard good things about it from friends who have stayed there.

And we'll book it now.

The kids will get a buzz out of New York, they've been there before when they were young and remember the Carnegie Deli and FAO Schwartz with pleasure. A weekend is long enough to introduce them to MOMA and the Gugg and hit Bloomingdales without putting ourselves in hock for the rest of our lives.

It's a pity that they won't see the snow-covered cornfields. And the gas stations. And the old men wearing the plaid shirts and CAT baseball caps. And me, covered in sweat, with a hundred yellow cabs blasting their horns at me, in the middle on New York, frightened to death.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Regards

Bradford

The trains can work, but if you get sleeping compartments, it is expensive. There is a good train from SF area to Chicago and another to NYC. But it will take you at least 3 days each way.
The California Zephyr from Emeryville takes 55 hours to Chicago and the Lakeshore Limited takes 20 hours from Chicago to NYC.
Flying to quicker and might even be cheaper if you want sleeping compartments.

LOL Bradford.

That sounds like an awesome price.

The kids can look at the snow-covered corn fields from the air and imagine the rest.

Debbie

The kids will get a feel for the latter when I pick up the rental af LAX and get onto the freeway for the first time in five years. They know the rule: don't open your mouth.

Bradford

Bradford, your new plan sounds much better.
And as everyone has said, you can't wait to make your bookings. IT will cost you lots more if you do.
DId you try www.kayak.com to search for your airline prices? They are simply a search site, but can be good.

As for driving across the country, it's something I'd love to do, but you need lots of time to enjoy it. What if you did it, but couldn't stop whenever you saw something you'd really like to see... since you'd be under the gun to get to NYC? WAit til the next trip and plan it.. but glad to hear it's not this time.

Hi aga in -

Saw this hotel on another Fodor's post.

Looks real funky - very different, and reasonable!

Take look.

http://carltonarms.com

Oops sorry - you've already got that hotel.

Hi Bradford.
Sounds like you've got a great trip plan. Post again, if you want suggestions on your New York leg...for example, I love Dylan's candy bar, right around the corner from Bloomingdales...walk across the Brooklyn Bridge (depending on the weather) and get pizza at Grimaldi's, wander around Canal Street and get dim sum on Sundays (you can get great dim sum in San Fran, too). What a great trip you're going to have!

This plan is better but still not the best. Southwest doesn't actually fly to New York city. You fly Southwest from SFO and then change planes in Chicago to an ATA flight. The trip is about 8 hrs. For what appears to be $10 more per ticket or so you can fly Air Alaska (which I've never flown, btw) non stop. Look on kayak.com I also think Jetblue.com is a good option out of Oakland if you can find a decent price.

Good advice! Get a nonstop flight if you can. Any transfer mid-country mid-winter has the same possible delay from snow as driving might.

btw~ i just have to say you have a great sense of humor and your trip sounds like it will be a blast for everyone!

Driving across America is a great idea, but maybe not in December. If you decide to do it, your family will see the mighty Sierra Mountains, the Rockies, follow the path of the Oregon Trail, cross great rivers and really experience the country. It is a fantastic trip you can do in five days.

Hi! I am a seasoned crosscountry roadtripper and have done many trips alone with my kids (meaning husband had to stay behind and work). I think this sounds like alot of fun! I would not, however, take any route other than southern there and back at that time of year. I am a risk taker, but in December too much can go wrong. Also, I would think that it will be 5 days MINIMUM if you went straight through the heart of the country.
Trains are more expensive although the northern route on Amtrak up near Glacier Park would be beautiful. It would still take I think 5 days to get to NY via train (I've done that several times also on all routes).
If you're flexible a cheap flight and willingness to do standby is an option but keep in mind that these days, becasue of new regulations on security and also the new time limit for how long a plane can be on the tarmac with passengers aboard, there are constant delays and cancellations so you'll have to keep the kids patient and prepare for unexpected evenings sleeping on the floor of aiports (IMHO). The airlines fyi do not have to provide hotel rooms for missed flights due to weather if it is a domestic flight.
HOpe this helps - you can email me directly if you want to ask anything else - I know there's more I can't think of!
Rena