Driving from SF to NYC - insane?
 

We are staying in San Francisco for a month in December. While I am very much looking forward to this, I would love to check out New York again, it's been five years since my last trip. Problem is, we are taking five kids with us (15-20yrs) and the airfares look like they might add another $3k to the cost, plus of course hotel bills once we get there.

Never giving up (I have found what looks to be a wonderful cheap hotel in the city) I wondered about driving there and back. The distance calculator I found on the web said 42hrs one way, which I assume is non-stop driving. So that might be five days on the road (8 hours a day?)

Can someone give me a better feel for how sane this idea is? What is the route? What do we see along the way? Do Americans drive non-stop (8 hours would be a long but not uncomfortable drive in New Zealand).

Is there another way rather than drive? The buses and trains seem less likely? How do you go about getting cheap last minute airfares? ( I know the websites) and how likely am I to get 8 people across from coast to coast without losing one or two along the way?

Many thanks!

Bradford

Bradford, check low cost carriers like JetBlue and Southwest.

Also, check Amtrak for train fares and schedules.

By the time you get a vehicle large enough for seven people plus gas plus lodging, you will be close to the $3K mark minus your sanity.

Agreed with GoTravel. Sounds like a stressful and pricey drive. And driving that whole way without stopping to see anything or anywhere in between isn't something I'd be happy about. Additionally you'd be traveling in the winter which would present problems in some places.

Hadn't thought of the snow thing. We don't have that kind of problem so much in NZ.

Saw a rerun of National Lampoon's Vacation the other night. Rather fancied myself as Chevy Chase.

Thanks for the airline advice. I'll have another look...

Yes, you have to consider snow. If you wanted to take a leisurely route through the South and up the East Coast, then maybe not a problem.

My buddy was driving from Boston to his parents' home in SF, and he got snowed in in Iowa, right around Christmas. He was stuck in a motel for 3 nights, by himself, with a couple of books and a TV. His truck (a giant F350 thing) was completely stuck off the side of the road. Not fun at the time, but he had a good story to tell. Blizzard from hell.

The distance from SF to NYC is about 3,000 miles. I've done that in three days with two people taking turns driving. That's covering about 1,000 miles a day. It's pretty insane and I wouldn't advice it.

If you plan on driving across the US, it's a beautiful and very diverse country, and I would advise planning stops along the way. Something to interest most of the people in the van.

Instead of spending a month in SF, spend three weeks and give yourselves an extra week on the road.

Flying is faster, but you will miss out on seeing some of the most wonderful parts of this country, IMHO.

Just another point of view for you to consider. Driving can be done, but in a more leisurely fashion.

Happy planning! :)

Thanks everyone. I'm getting some traction on the Southwest and Jetblue suggestions; it's starting to look viable.

Can see now that driving would be a folly. Probably a very memorable one, but I can't imagine a mini-van full of whining teenagers would be much fun!

Bradford

5 days to drive SF-NYC is plenty of time. 4 days is doable but tougher. 6,000 miles roundtrip will use about 300 gallons of gas in a vehicle that can sit 7. That's close to $1,000 already.

And renting a vehicle that size is not cheap. Also, NYC parking is also very expensive.

Another issue is weather. While it's usually relatively dry in December, it doesn't mean there cannot be a snowstorm or two enroute.

Driving will take longer than that - since that time of year you WILL run into substantial snow - and possible road closures - in the mountains on the northern route. And taking the southern route will add several days.

Plus you'll all be ready to kill each other after 3 days. I'm always in favor of road trips - but this sounds more like the Bataan death march. Definitely fly -it's the only thing that makes sense.

Agree with general distrust of driving idea in Dec., and in the South you risk ice storms, which are worse, IMO, than snow.

However, you might consider loping off a small chunk of the country you'd like to try driving around, just for the flavor. Or take the train through some part of it (west of Mississippi is usually a better ride).

Otherwise, I'm very fond of SW, but certainly keeping a group of 8 together will be a challenge. And if the snow causes trouble on the roads, the airports can get into trouble too.

Come from a big family and suggest you agree to subdivide into two cohorts if you need to to get from A to B. We had the matrix down to a mathematical brilliance re: who would travel with whom -- one adult, one oldest, one middle, one youngest.... etc.

sorry: "...consider lopping..." "loping" is what giraffes or very long-legged people do when they run.

"'loping' is what giraffes or very long-legged people do when they run."

Well now, you COULD consider loping your way from San Francisco to New York - just another way of travel. :)

Kidding aside, you've chosen two very good airlines. Jetblue will fly you nonstop West Coast to East Coast, Southwest has no nonstop flights that I know of. If you plan to hop across with Southwest, you COULD plan an intermediate stop somewhere in the middle of the US to spend those 5 days that you had originally allotted to driving.

Bradford, I think you've gotten some great advice here, but darn it, I would have liked to see your trip report after that drive! I just know it would have been one for the ages.
(Enjoy your trip!)

Southwest doesn't even fly to New York City. They fly to Long Island Islip MacArthur, and their partner ATA flies to LaGuardia from Chicago Midway.

But SFO - EWR/JFK should see very decent prices in the next few months as Virgin America is starting to fly next month, first with SFO-JFK. They're selling one-way for $139 + tax, though fares for December is at least $179 + tax each way. About $400 roundtrip.

Thanks again.

I think the NY trip is still on the cards. Maybe flying is the way to go, but then again the great road trip is more tempting. We're going to just go to San Francisco and plan it from there.

The trains look cool. We have just one train that goes North-South and that's pretty much it. You have all these trains that have wonderful names, I just have to teach the kids to run alongside them and throw their bags onto the freight carraiges and we'll be in the Big Apple in no time.

Bradford

Something to consider is that the most interesting things to see might not be along the most direct route. So if you want to see some things along the way, your distances may increase.

You could share driving, but would need to check with the rental car places to see how much that would add to the cost. When we rent a car, my husband often does all the driving so that we don't have to pay the extra charges. However if we were driving from San Francisco to NYC in a rental, we'd definitely want all the drivers we could get.

Have you driven in NYC before? We drove there the first time we went and decided that we wouldn't attempt driving in the city again. We thought having lived in Chicago would have prepared us for NYC traffic - but it really didn't.

I think taking a train would be as expensive as flying.

I don't have an atlas in front of me, but I am pretty sure you could take interstate highways all the way.

I had to read your note more than once to get the feel for "since I'm in the neighborhood in CA, I just as well go to NYC too."

We took a vacation once where we drove 5000 miles in two weeks, and saw LOTS along the way.

>Do Americans drive non-stop (8 hours would be a long but not uncomfortable drive in New Zealand).

With the Interstates, it is certainly possible.

Debbie

"We're going to just go to San Francisco and plan it from there. "

A bad idea, imo. You can't possibly get decent airfare prices if you wait til the last minute. And it won't be easy to find a well priced 1 way car rental at the last minute. Or, perish the thought, are you thinking of driving BACK to SF too? Don't you have to sort that out before buying your plane tickets from NZ?

Another reason not to wait is NYC hotel prices. Unless you are planning on coming FOR Xmas or at least after Dec. 18th, hotel prices will prohibitive unless you book something now.

((I)) If you haven't already bought your tickets, there should be a way to add a stop to NYC for not much more money, I'd imagine. Maybe SF could be considered a "stop" on the way to NYC?

If the air doesn't work, or while you're checking, get a few price quotes on car rentals so you can see if it's even worth considering. I think driving could be every bit as expensive as flying. In addition to the 1 way drop off fee which, there's also insurance which can double the cost of the rental. Our gas prices are pretty high now. And then there are hotel costs. For 7 people you'll need 2-3 rooms every time you stop. I'd suggest you try getting a few rental car quotes before continuing to consider this.
((I)) You might try whizzcarrental.com who quote including all insurance and fees.

Train sounds very enticing but our trains are REALLY not up to par.

If adding NYC to your original ticket doens't fly, the website kayak.com has some interesting "tools" to determine what airfare prices have been on that route over the last few months. It's also a good place to get an idea of hotel prices. I think you'd have to count on paying at least $200/night per room to stay in Manhattan.

There are some suite hotels that can accomodate all of you in one suite, but that starts to get very pricey. It's usually cheaper to get 2 smaller suites (ie a 1 bedroom) for your size group. Radiocityapartments.com is a popular budget hotel with 1 and 2 bedrooms suites and nycsalisbury.com is also good but both book up quickly. Best Western Hospitality has some decent 2 bedroom suites that might work. Good luck!

Consider d ring to , say Phoeix (not tha t tht city IMHO has that much to offer, but you would see part of the country that's very different than SF and NYC). Drop off car and take plane from there to NYC, stay for a week or 2, and fly back to SF (open jaw ticket.)

Car in NYC? Not a good idea. I'm a NY native and I've never even learned how to drive!

Correction: "Consider flying to. . . "

You've gotten excellent advice so far as your choice is not easy.

Here's another suggestion: what is the cost of the airfare roundtrip New Zealand to San Francisco?

Try hunting for a round-the-world fare and see if it is within range of your total combined New Zealand-SF-NYC travel costs.

I'll bet that the round-the-world fare will be cheaper.

You can plug in however many stops you want to make along the way, so long as you keep moving more or less in the same direction.

The more stops you make, the more expensive the ticket gets.

Just google/yahoo "round the world airfare" and you'll come up with several companies that offer these fares.

Good luck! :)

While I think it is not realistic to drive from SFO to NYC, ss you have a month here, try to get/rent a car/van and drive some of the western USA. You do not get a good image of the US if you are only in big cities. The drive either up the coast from SFO to Oregon OR down the coast to LA or San Diego, is fabulous. Try to get in a road trip, even if it is a small one while you are here.

You really can;t wait untill you get here to plan the trip.

Everything will end up costing more, many things will be sold out, and you'll have a very frustrating experience. (For instance, Dec is high season for NYC hotels - and some are already selling out. to get a decent hotel at any sort of affordable price you should be reserving now. Also tickets for B'way shows are selling now.)

Also - DO not focus on trains. Long-distance train service in the US is pitiful. Scheduled service is excrutiatingly slow - and usually many hours late (since the tracks are owned by the freight companies and passenger trains have to pull aside and wait for freight trains to go through). In addition to being late, and usually unpleasant, trains almost always cost more than flights - often much more.

(The only trains that work well are the local commuter trains around a few major cities and Amtrak in the NE corridor between Boston and DC.)

You have no idea how mobbed NYC is a Christmas - and how expensive - unless you do all the planning in advance.

I have driven cross country twice in December - once from Denver to Boston and once from Seattle to Chicago.

I can tell you it is most definitely not fun. There is nothing to see for much of it (read empty, snow-covered corn fields) Add to that having to do it in that short a time = not a fun trip.

In contrast, I drove Boston to Seattle (via Key West, NOLA, Grand Canyon, etc, totaling 7200 miles) in September and it's one of the best 3 weeks I've ever spent. Plusses - Decent time of year and lots of time to do it.

OK - you have received more info than you probably want to digest. But I think your plan is to drive SF > NYC > SF in the middle of your month in California. Right?

If so - <b><u>that is an insane idea</u></b>.

Then you are considering trains. Also not terribly sane. Last week the main cross country train that passes through my city enroute to SF was 13 hours late -- in the summer! In winter all bets are off.

and finally - deciding at the last minute to fly will mean top dollar air fares and very expensive hotels in NYC

Have you thought about looking into the Drive-away option. There are companies in the USA where you drive someone's car from point A to B (in your case you'd need someone who wanted their car delivered from SF to NY.) This could be a much cheaper option than hiring a car but I believe there is always a fairly tight timeframe in which to get the car to the destination. You only pay for petrol I think. Have often thought it sounded good but have never tried it. Google Drive Away.

Good luck. We're Australians and used to driving long distances. I think your trip sounds fabulous but the weather sounds like it could make or break it.
Kay

Bradford, have you booked your tickets to San Francisco yet? If not, you may want to consider booking New Zealand (AKL?) to SFO and NYC to AKL. Then you'd only be driving one direction. I plugged in some random December dates and it only added $300-400 to the price of the ticket.

I think driving ONE-WAY across the country would be a lot of fun; if you took a southern route you could avoid some of the nastier weather and see a lot of amazing sights -- Vegas, the Grand Canyon, the Painted Desert, etc. But I think the idea of a return trip by car is what makes the original plan insane! I'd put NYC on the end of the trip, so you can just go home afterwards :)

P.S. Before someone flames me for lumping in Vegas with the Grand Canyon, I should clarify -- by &quot;amazing sights&quot; I meant &quot;things that are fun to visit on a 5000-mile road trip.&quot; ;)

Insane? No way! As an alternative, you could look into hitchiing a ride to NYC with Santa Claus.

Thanks everyone.

I think, first and foremost, I have had a naieve view of the distances involved, and the ground that needs to be covered. Like my Australian friends, I am quite happy to get in a car and drive all day, but I have never done it in a snow-jam.

As a Kiwi, I may also have a rose-tinted view of travelling across the States - too many road movies - although we did the New England circuit a couple of years back and loved it.

But maybe not in winter. And maybe not without a little more time up our sleeves.

This is the plan (as of last night). There's some good flights on Southwest for $150 each way if I leave it until early Jan. We will do a weekend trip (Fri- Mon) and there's a funky hotel on 25th St that does $180 a room for four people (carltonarms.com) - I have heard good things about it from friends who have stayed there.

And we'll book it now.

The kids will get a buzz out of New York, they've been there before when they were young and remember the Carnegie Deli and FAO Schwartz with pleasure. A weekend is long enough to introduce them to MOMA and the Gugg and hit Bloomingdales without putting ourselves in hock for the rest of our lives.

It's a pity that they won't see the snow-covered cornfields. And the gas stations. And the old men wearing the plaid shirts and CAT baseball caps. And me, covered in sweat, with a hundred yellow cabs blasting their horns at me, in the middle on New York, frightened to death.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Regards

Bradford

The trains can work, but if you get sleeping compartments, it is expensive. There is a good train from SF area to Chicago and another to NYC. But it will take you at least 3 days each way.
The California Zephyr from Emeryville takes 55 hours to Chicago and the Lakeshore Limited takes 20 hours from Chicago to NYC.
Flying to quicker and might even be cheaper if you want sleeping compartments.

LOL Bradford.

That sounds like an awesome price.

The kids can look at the snow-covered corn fields from the air and imagine the rest.

Debbie

The kids will get a feel for the latter when I pick up the rental af LAX and get onto the freeway for the first time in five years. They know the rule: don't open your mouth.

Bradford

Bradford, your new plan sounds much better.
And as everyone has said, you can't wait to make your bookings. IT will cost you lots more if you do.
DId you try www.kayak.com to search for your airline prices? They are simply a search site, but can be good.

As for driving across the country, it's something I'd love to do, but you need lots of time to enjoy it. What if you did it, but couldn't stop whenever you saw something you'd really like to see... since you'd be under the gun to get to NYC? WAit til the next trip and plan it.. but glad to hear it's not this time.

Hi aga in -

Saw this hotel on another Fodor's post.

Looks real funky - very different, and reasonable!

Take look.

http://carltonarms.com

Oops sorry - you've already got that hotel.

Hi Bradford.
Sounds like you've got a great trip plan. Post again, if you want suggestions on your New York leg...for example, I love Dylan's candy bar, right around the corner from Bloomingdales...walk across the Brooklyn Bridge (depending on the weather) and get pizza at Grimaldi's, wander around Canal Street and get dim sum on Sundays (you can get great dim sum in San Fran, too). What a great trip you're going to have!

This plan is better but still not the best. Southwest doesn't actually fly to New York city. You fly Southwest from SFO and then change planes in Chicago to an ATA flight. The trip is about 8 hrs. For what appears to be $10 more per ticket or so you can fly Air Alaska (which I've never flown, btw) non stop. Look on kayak.com I also think Jetblue.com is a good option out of Oakland if you can find a decent price.

Good advice! Get a nonstop flight if you can. Any transfer mid-country mid-winter has the same possible delay from snow as driving might.

btw~ i just have to say you have a great sense of humor and your trip sounds like it will be a blast for everyone!

Driving across America is a great idea, but maybe not in December. If you decide to do it, your family will see the mighty Sierra Mountains, the Rockies, follow the path of the Oregon Trail, cross great rivers and really experience the country. It is a fantastic trip you can do in five days.

Hi! I am a seasoned crosscountry roadtripper and have done many trips alone with my kids (meaning husband had to stay behind and work). I think this sounds like alot of fun! I would not, however, take any route other than southern there and back at that time of year. I am a risk taker, but in December too much can go wrong. Also, I would think that it will be 5 days MINIMUM if you went straight through the heart of the country.
Trains are more expensive although the northern route on Amtrak up near Glacier Park would be beautiful. It would still take I think 5 days to get to NY via train (I've done that several times also on all routes).
If you're flexible a cheap flight and willingness to do standby is an option but keep in mind that these days, becasue of new regulations on security and also the new time limit for how long a plane can be on the tarmac with passengers aboard, there are constant delays and cancellations so you'll have to keep the kids patient and prepare for unexpected evenings sleeping on the floor of aiports (IMHO). The airlines fyi do not have to provide hotel rooms for missed flights due to weather if it is a domestic flight.
HOpe this helps - you can email me directly if you want to ask anything else - I know there's more I can't think of!
Rena