Drinking Age in NYC?
 

We will be travelling with our kids to NYC who are 20 3/4 years old (twin boys).

Will we have trouble with ordering alcoholic drinks for them? What happens if we parents order an alcoholic drink and share it with our kids?

Will there be a problem if we want to go to a night club (e.g. the Rooftop in the Empire Hotel) or the Terra Blues Club with our kids?

Sorry for these questions from a concerned European father.

BTW, what can we expect from the Rooftop? Is is a sort of dancing club or just a bar? What would the dresscode be? Any advice is appreciated from the clueless.

21 is the drinking age. You can look at the laws online to see if there is any exception re parents giving the kid a drink.

There is no exception regarding parents/kids in a licensed establishment. They can lose their license if they serve your kids alchohol or if they serve it to you and you do. That said, they may or may not care/check.

Drinking age is 21, not 20-3/4. It's illegal for minors to drink in New York whether or not their parents order and serve the drinks to them. However, as sf7307 and vjpblovesitaly point out, not all bars are going to care or even notice. But if you order alcohol for your minor children, they could be carded at the time of ordering, even in a restaurant, if they don't look 21.

They won't be allowed to enter a nightclub if they aren't 21. Most clubs DO check IDs.

If they ask for ID, your kids are out of luck.

You cannot legally order alcohol and share with your underage kids, but as sf7307 said, they may choose not to notice.

Our 23 year old son, even when travelling with us, has ID checked everywhere - on cruise ships, in nice restaurants. The liability and penalties are so high today that I would not count on their being allowed to drink or perhaps even permitted entry.

His ID was even checked on a cruise to Alaska when we ordered a bottle of wine for the table - they would not even give him a wine glass until he produced ID.

The US does not enjoy the European attitudes towards drinks and wine. We consider it EVIL. Of course, we have a huge underage drink problem -- but that is beside the point. And parents have been arrested for sharing their drinks. Our 30 year old daughter-in-law is frequently asked her ID even when with family. Sorry, that we are not more enlightened in some areas.

It's not just the 20-somethings; I was carded yesterday and I'm 49. :-)

Lee Ann

Most places I buy alcohol card EVERYONE regardless of age, unless you looked 100, I suppose. They have carded me and I'm in my 50s. It is just automatic and avoids any arguments (some people don't like being carded, I have no idea why, it doesn't take much time). I don't care.

I think you can thank Elizabeth Dole for this one (a Republican, wife of Bob Dole, used to be Sec of Transportation or something when she did this). When I was young, you could drink at 18 in my state, which was reasonable, I thought. You could drink beer, just not the alcohol like whiskey, gin, whatever, which is a good compromise. I think it's stupid the way college kids now can't even go out to a bar and have some beers. We didn't have people getting drunk in dorms back then, either (at least none I lived in). She blackmailed all the states into upping the drinking age or she'd reduce their highway funds.

Lee Ann, wasn't that a fabulous day?

BTW, it gives me hope (although I am slightly past 50).

I must add, Lee Ann, you are responsible for a wonderful day we had in Oxford because we have read your trip report. With one of my sons, we found Beren's and Luthien's grave and soaked up the atmosphere.

And another time, in Santa Fe, it was you who recommended a certain liquor store to us where we bought (among other things) a beautiful bottle of Tequila Patron which we enjoyed in front of our kiva fireplace...

You see, you have always been an inspiration for us.

And now, such a disappointment. Yes, fmpden, we have learnt to expel Puritans, Amish, Baptists and other lunatics from Europe, but we have also learnt that there are a few regions in the U.S. where you still find some common sense, e.g. Louisiana, Texas and New Mexico.

I should have known that NYC comes second after Utah, regarding the attitude towards alcohol.

But you must see my responsibility as a caring father: I am the one who has to feed the family. And if foreign laws prevent me from fulfilling my duty - who else takes care of my poor children when they are winding with tremors and spasms because New York State laws deprive them of their natural diet which they daily enjoy in Europe?

I am afraid we have to feed our children in the privacy of our hotel rooms. Before leaving Europe, I will provide ourselves with a few bottles in the duty free store.

Thanks for your insights (although I hoped for better news).

It's funny because I lived in Louisiana when the drinking age had been recently raised to 21, and I always thought it charming that kids couldn't buy alcohol legally but could drink it legally when their parents bought it for them. Unfortunately, despite its progressive reputation, New York is really behind the times in many ways. Some families in Long Island were even arrested and charged for allowing their kids to consume alcohol in their private home. We are a country of puritans!!!

My experience in NYC is I always order a bottle of wine for teh table & they always bring glasses for everyone. Never been carded, never been asked.

The drinking age is 21 everywhere in the US. And although it may seem silly this is enforced very strictly most places, since restaurants don;t want to lose their liquor licenses. Ordering drinks yourself and giving them to the kids is not fair to the restaurant - and they will not appreciate it. (And expect anyone under 30 to be carded routinely.)

And agree, that if parents serve drinks to kids under 21 at home and an accident results the parents are legally responsible - to the tune of big $ or even jail time.

For a long time we had a horrendous number of deaths due to young people drinking and driving and most places take these laws very seriously.

(I don;t agree - I was raised having a little bit of wine since I was about 14 - as were my step-daughters - but then we knew there was no driving involved. I think this is a healthier attitude and helps prevent binge drinking of Olde Sweat Sox as soon as kids can get illegal ID - but understand the need where every 16 year old drives constantly.)

When I was 18 growing up in New York, I could drink alcohol and die in Vietnam at 18 but I couldn't vote. Now, people can vote and die in Afghanistan or Iraq at 18 but they can't legally have a beer. I don't believe that anyone should drink and drive at any age but after the age of 18, a kid is no longer a minor and should be allowed to drink.

Don't sweat it Echnaton, assuming your sons are reasonably virile, no one is going to card them in a restaurant. My son has been served in NY, with or without us, since he was 19. He is now near to 21, and just the other week was served without a question in our company (as well as with his equally under age friends later that week). Now, don't lie. If someone asks, admit that the kid is under age. They won't ask. The police have better things to do than check IDs in restaurants. Most of them also grew up in a more civilized time when 18 was the legal age. (I hate Elizabeth Dole -- she also ruined the lines of several sporty vehicles with her dumb third brake light rule.)

Clubs are a different story. It is unlikely they will be admitted or, if they are, will not receive a wristband which entitles them to order drinks. Clubs suck, anyway.

Enjoy our puritan-burdened land and stick it to them as able!

The drinking age was 18 for many years in NY. But the drinking age in Connecticut and New Jersey was 21 and kids were coming from the other states to drink, creating a problem for everyone.

Many kids from the burbs still come to drink and party in Manhattan.

I have to side with Fra D, my son used to visit friends in NYC when he was 19 or 20 and he said they were always served. I was shocked because here in California they are very strict. I wonder if it is more lax in NYC because driving isn't a big factor.

Echnaton,

The following suggestion is made in all sincerity and humility. If it comes across as sarcastic or snarky or moralizing, it is not meant to - it's just hard to put this in writing and make it sound like it would if spoken. I realize I might be taking my life in my hands by making it, but here goes ...

Why not just have your sons (and maybe you, too, as a show of solidarity with them) go without alcohol for the entire time you are in New York?

Before you start to protest, look at it this way - how many times have you seen or heard travelers told that they are not in their home countries, so OF COURSE things are different, and they should just go with the flow and not complain (even if it seems the "wrong" way to do things)? That is part of experiencing the different culture, right?

The drinking age of 21 is part of American law/culture (although some people would, I imagine, argue that flouting the law is part of American culture as well). So just roll with it. No need to sneak the boys alcohol or see if they can get away with ordering drinks.

Frankly, and in all seriousness, I would worry that someone who could not go a week or so without alcohol (or chocolate, or meat, or television, or Internet access, or anything else that is pleasurable but not really essential to life) has a problem with addiction and might need to seek help.

Do I drink? I admit I don't. But what I'm talking about really is not about drinking (or any other specific behavior). It is about people (whoever they are) respecting the laws/customs of whatever place they are visiting (whether or not they agree with them) - or, if they can't do that, then choosing not to visit rather than stewing about it the whole time they are there. That advice certainly applies to me.

And to my fellow citizens of the USA, before anyone jumps all over me, you first have to promise never to ridicule another American who complains that there is not enough ice in the drinks, or the food tastes different, or there is too much cigarette smoke, or whatever else people get ridiculed for complaining about because it isn't like they want it or are used to at home. :)

>The US does not enjoy the European attitudes towards drinks and wine. We consider it EVIL. Of course, we have a huge underage drink problem<

Sorry, but Europe has a big underage drinking problem, too. It is a myth that European teens don't drink.

http://tinyurl.com/ygouokk

Thin

Cranachin, we can huddle together while they throw tomatoes at us -- I agree with you completely :-)

Cranachin, you are right: "when in Rome, do like the Romans".

I just wanted to know how the New Yorkers do. And what did I get from the New Yorkers? Mixed opinions.

Anyway, thank you all for your comments. I have got a picture.

FYI - opinions were not all that mixed. If you read some of the nastiness above, only 2 people said your almost-adult kids would likely be served. Many of the anectdotes were from many years ago when places were not nearly as likely to "card" (our term for checking ID) people.

Whether this law is intelligent or not is up for discussion - my 19 and 23 year old "kids" almost have me convinced age should be 18 as it was in many places when I was that age.

The main reason most places are so strict about age is that penalties are severe for serving underage people - suspension of liquor license and eventual permanent loss for repeated offenses.

http://www.abc.state.ny.us/
Article 5, § 65-c. states the following:

§ 65-c. Unlawful possession of an alcoholic beverage with the intent to consume by persons under the age of twenty-one years.

1. Except as hereinafter provided, no person under the age of twenty-one years shall possess any alcoholic beverage, as defined in this chapter, with the intent to consume such beverage.
2. A person under the age of twenty-one years may possess any alcoholic beverage with intent to consume if the alcoholic beverage is given:
(a) to a person who is a student in a curriculum licensed or registered by the state education department and the student is required to taste or imbibe alcoholic beverages in courses which are a part of the required curriculum, provided such alcoholic beverages are used only for instructional purposes during class conducted pursuant to such curriculum; or (b) to the person under twenty-one years of age by that person's parent or guardian.


I think you would have to read the alcohol laws in their entirety, including definitions, in order to figure what that means exactly and whether it applies to business establishments or just the privacy of home. I linked through the ABC.state.ny.us so hopefully they would not have out of date laws there but who knows. Does the City of New York have a seperate set of alcohol laws that one should look at?

I believe there are also exemptions for religious uses.

One thing you may want to clarify...oftentimes dinner clubs begin carding after a certain time. So, if you go early, an underage person will be able to get in.

If you go to a restaurant and they card everyone and take away your sons' wineglasses...they can take discrete sips from yours. That's what we always did, ssshhh!

That is really gross. Yuck

Echnaton,

I hope you have an enjoyable visit - and I hope the rain will have stopped before you get here! This has been a month for the record books across the Northeast.

Wonder what vjpblovesitaly opinion is for sharing plates of food?

Some restaurants will bring glasses for everyone when a bottle of wine is ordered, but sometimes they do ask for proof. When we'd take my daughter out at that age, we would just sit back and see if they offer her a glass automatically. If they didn't, then we wouldn't ask. Now she's 21, we would ask. My son on the other hand is 18 1/2 and barely looks his age, so he has yet to have a wine glass offered and we never ask. In any case, he's not crazy about wine.

It is a crime to give or sell alcoholic beverages to anyone under the age of 21 in NY State.

Some clubs may have certain nights for the under 21 crowd, most likely those clubs will be near NYU and Columbia.

I don't get it - a few of these very same posters would be the first to get on your case about breaking the law if you talked about going down to Canal Street and buying a knock-off purse. They'd give you all the reasons it's a terrible thing to do, from it being illegal to it supporting terrorism. Well I for one don't think you get to choose which laws you abide by and which you don't. If you think the law doesn't make sense, tell it to your legislator!

The state law, as posted by vjplovestitaly, reads like this:

A person under the age of twenty-one years may possess any alcoholic beverage with intent to consume if the alcoholic beverage is given: ... to the person under twenty-one years of age by that person's parent or guardian.

If read this correctly, a parent can order an alcoholic drink and pass it to the underage child. Am I right?

http://www.oasas.state.ny.us/ud/docu...dYourChild.pdf

"The exception for the parent or guardian does not extend to premises licensed by the State Liquor Authority".

Thanx.

There are reasons why we have a 21 age requirement in all the states. Mainly - too many instances of teen agers and slighltly above getting completely sloshed and then driving with tragic and disastrous results. The visitor's sons can enjoy their visit and most likely survive quite nicely without alcohol for a few days. I am a bit surprised by all the above comments ascribing this policy to "puritanism". And - yes - there was a time during prohibition when that attitude was rife. But you just don't see that stuff in any meaningful way around these days. But young people - in the past (and today when they do it in violation of law) have proved that they are not yet ready to take on those responsibilities.

>>>I am a bit surprised by all the above comments ascribing this policy to "puritanism".<<<

That's the historically correct explanation.

Here in Europe, we have a long philosophical tradition of freedom and civil rights. We think the state should not interfere in the lifes of the citizens (that is the reason why we do not agree to the US government's requirements of the homeland security act).

The reason why Europeans are more liberitarian than Americans is that we had badly suffered from oppression by kings and nobility. Therefore, we probably value personal freedom higher than the Americans.

BTW, we are very strict against driving under influence. And I think the number of people who are killed in traffic are much lower here (when related to the population).

I agree w/superc. When I was 18 I could drink, I could vote & I could get drafted. (OK there wasn't an active draft but I still had to register). As I recall the federal Gov't pretty much black-mailed the states into changing their drinking laws in order to get Fed Funds for roads & such. Am I recalling history correctly ?

>Here in Europe, we have a long philosophical tradition of freedom and civil rights. We think the state should not interfere in the lifes of the citizens (that is the reason why we do not agree to the US government's requirements of the homeland security act).<

ROFL!! Right, the Nuremburg Laws didn't infringe on anyone's rights.

Thin

<<Here in Europe, we have a long philosophical tradition of freedom and civil rights. We think the state should not interfere in the lifes of the citizens>>

Oh, please. Isn't paying high taxes to support people on the dole for years interfering in the lives of citizens? How about paying taxes so people can go for weeks to spas to hang out (which they do in Germany, I have a German friend whose mother goes to spas several times a year thsnks to the taxpayers). What about going in the army involuntarily? Some European countries still have mandatory service, don't they? Wouldn't that be interfering in your life? I have a Greek friend and I believe they had mandatory service, although that was a few years ago. How about paying taxes to support certain religions, isn't that interfering when it isn't voluntary and done by the state? A lot of European countries have all kinds of regulations that make it difficult for people to do certain things, like open businesses or change professions, or even get a university education after a certain age.

Now I do agree that the age of drinking in the US is too high, and I think should be 18 for beer, at least. As I said, this was done when E Dole was Sec of Transp in 1984. I don't know if raising it has helped drunk driving issues, but it seems to me, it would make more sense to have very strict drunk driving laws and actually enforce them rather than raise the age to 21. Well, Ronald Reagan signed it, and Congress passed it, so there were a lot of people involved, and maybe she was forced to support it. It was really the advice of Nixon's secretary, Volpe.

I'm with Cranachin and sf7307 here. Simply put, the law says you have to be 21 to drink alcohol in New York in a public establishment. It's not like the OP and family will to have to bear the yoke of tyranny there for too long. It's smart to know what's legal, what's not, and respect that wherever you travel. And if a particular statute is that big a deal-breaker, don't go.

What if the OP decides to visit Seattle and jaywalks? Or goes to Singapore and overstays their visa allowance time? Or goes to Istanbul and decides to buy heroin? Flouting the law in the above three cases will likely get the offender ticketed, caned, or thrown in a Turkish prison respectively. And "I don't agree with the law, so it's optional if I respect it or not" won't fly in New York or anywhere else.

I prefer to look at it as an opportunity to practice civil disobedience, in the great tradition of Thoreau and Gandhi. I believe it to be an unjust law, wrongfully imposed on the various states by a tyrannical misuse of Federal power. Or at least, that will do for an excuse.