Does the "Real USA" (still) exist?
 

Here's the thing.

I'm an Irishman (51) now living and working in New York.

My wife and kids have returned to Ireland for the summer and I will follow in mid-August.

In the meantime...I will have an opportunity to travel in USA for about a week from 7-14 August.

The question is: where to go?

If you live in, or have visited, a place that you believe is typical of the "real America" and is the place that I should spend 5-7 days, please share it with me.

There are a few conditions however:
I'd prefer to move off the East Coast but don't want to travel too far (say 3-4 hours by air or 7-9 hours overland).
Warm is good; Hot is OK; Scorching is less so
(Maybe the trickiest) - I won't be able to hire or borrow a car. Public transport or walking is fine.
Towns/cities of about 100,000 seem attractive to me - preferably with a proper centre.
Museums, Galleries, Sporting events, Good architecture, Local events are all big positives for me.

As an example, we recently visited Charleston SC and had a great time. Earlier, we visited Minneapolis (albeit in March) - not so good.

I'd be delighted for any advice readers of this forum can offer and I'll be glad to report on my visit to XXXX after it happens!

Thank you.

Tim

> If you live in, or have visited, a place that
> you believe is typical of the "real America"

The term you put in quotes has always puzzled me. Just why, exactly, is New York City not part of "real" America?

I now live in the MSA of Philadelphia, an area with 6.5 million residents. Prior to this, I lived in an Iowa city of less than 50,000 residents. I've also lived in Texas, California, and Michigan -- and I consider ALL of these places just as "real" as all the others. They were all different, yes. Some were far from "typical" of other places -- particularly when I lived in the SF Bay Area. But ALL of them are "really" part of the USA.

Incredibly, I did hear people saying that Iowa was inhabited by "real" Americans -- as if the people residing in the area where I now live aren't "really" Americans. I couldn't think of one honest criterion that would cause someone to think that, but sometimes I lack imagination.

On what basis would you consider a place to be, or not be, part of "real" America?


BTW, August will be scorching in all areas of the U.S. south of New England. Since you'll be a single traveler, the mountains and small towns of that area might be perfect IF you don't mind riding commuter buses between towns. The Berkshires of Massachusetts and the Green Mountains of Vermont are both well-served by these services, and you could spend a couple of days in each of several towns in the area, then go on to the next town. Good planning would be a must, but it could be done.

There is no such thing as a real America. It is some idealized and condescending version of what one person thinks. I live in NYC and have all my life and it is as real as it gets.

Paul, IM(?),

no attempt at condescension intended.

Absolutely coincidentally, I've just been looking at the movie State and Main, which is David Mamet's take on the question of "real" or indeed "smalltown" America. I think he makes similar points to you both. And, of course NYC or Chicago are as real as any other part of America.

However (and here is where the "" "" come in) there is a stereotypical view of what is meant by "real America" that usually does not embrace the big cities.

I like New York (some days I even love it) but I would like to take a break from it. Your suggestions of the Berkshires and Vermont are interesting but I'd hope to land in somewhere a bit more urban and which has enough about it to hold my interest for a week or so.

And I hope that people will post here about their home town/city, which maybe I haven't I heard of, and suggest local attractions or events that might make me think it would be interesting to turn up and check it out.

Thanks for replying

Tim

"preferably with a proper centre."

You say you are looking for the "real America" and yet you've already decided that it has to have at least one feature that you yourself have defined.

Good luck with this one.

bit more urban and which has enough about it to hold my interest for a week or so.

Well, there's the rub. Just take "real" out of your idealized thought. You liked Charleston. You could go to Asheville, NC and have a lovely week--but it has gone very upscale from its "real" roots, but much much fun.
Go to Charlottesville, VA or Richmond, VA. Williamsburg is a truly fake "real"!! Have you been to Washington, DC.

> However (and here is where the "" "" come in) there is a stereotypical view of what is meant by "real America" that usually does not embrace the big cities.

Tim, imo people who have spent their whole lives in either a big city or small town have no basis of comparison to know the difference between real and fake America. We spent our first 25 years in major cities and thought just like IMDonehere. L.A. was the center of the universe and reality for me, anywhere outside it was simply somewhere other than the center. But it was an extraordinarily lonely environment, e.g. we lived in a single house for over 20 years and never met our immediate neighbors, which is typical in L.A. and most other major cities.

Then we moved to the Sierras and suddenly we had people throwing us housewarming parties, bringing us gifts every holiday and taking in our garbage cans every week without us even asking them to do it. Etc. Etc etc.

Etc. We literally had to reteach ourselves how to love and trust people.

To answer your question, to find real America simply visit any state or county fair in any U.S. city with a population under 25,000, and ranging from 200 miles east of the west coast to 200 miles west of the east coast.

Well since more americans live in cities and suburbs than in small town and rural areas - the former rather than the latter is the real america.

Not that there's anything wrong with small towns or farms - but many young people are leaving both since opportunities are so limited.

I think you are looking for some sort of 1950s Ozzie and Harriet family sitting on the porch type of thing that probably never existed and really doesn't now at all. Just look at the incidence of drug use and violent crime in these areas. Just look at the dearth or small family farms (which are often traps and totally uneconomic versus huge agribusinesses).

You can certainly visit areas that are less populated - in August for non scorching I suggest Maine - a lovely vacation area - but many of the locals have a hard time making a living due to the limited and often seasonal employment opportunities.

This would be like someone going to Ireland and thinking all that matters is village pubs and step dancing - rather than the great literature/cultural history, the large number of university educated people in high tech jobs, recent political changes and the modern country as it exists.

I'll second the nomination of Maine. Maybe start in Portland for a few days. It's well known for it restaurants, and there are harbor cruises -- take the mail boat -- which will introduce you to the coast. Further north there are still honest-to-god fishing villages such as Stonington. Getting around will require taking buses since you will not be driving. Not convenient but largely doable. Get a copy of the Explorer's Guide to Maine and see what appeals. Note: you may even have cool weather, especially in the evening.

This is really quite funny!

I know what you are getting at. If I had been working in Dublin, I would indeed like to get out and see something else of the country.

Not driving is going to limit severely some of the places you can go that are in fact out in the "Real America."

About the best you are going to be able to do is some combination of train and bus, and it is going to be on the East Coat. There is a non-driving Canadian named Daniel whose reports I would recommend, but I can't think of his last name at the moment.

In your circumstances, I might make Burlington, VT, my objective. You can get there by bus, plane, or train, none hugely convenient. You could stop off overnight on the way in Hanover, NH (bus) or Springfield, MA (train). Lots of scenery on the way by either route.

Burlington is a small university city with lots of brew pubs, interesting shops, views, and a nearby museum of American popular culture at Shelburne: old farms, a steamboat, primitive art, tools, wagons, the lot.

From Burlington, you can cross Lake Champlain by ferry with good views of the Adirondack Mountains and have a stroll around Plattsburgh, NY, or you can go to Montreal by bus or train for an overnight.

How about Martha's VIneyard in Massachusetts? Yes,there are plenty of visitors there but also locals who inhabit the various towns. Each town on the island is unique. You can fly there from NY. I've done it. Beaches, culture, restaurants, architecture, woods, even some clay cliffs. August may be tough though as it can be booked up way in advance.
http://mvol.com/

The town of Oak Bluffs is famous for having fairy tale like victorian homes and has been a solid Black community for decades.
http://www.oakbluffsmv.com/


BTW - Menemsha, a small town on MV, is where they filmed "Jaws".

If you have an interest in horse racing you can take the Adirondack train to Saratoga. http://www.saratoga.com/race-track/calendar.cfm
There are lots of other things to do/see in that area as well

I have the perfect place for you. Unfortunately not on the east coast. West Point, CA. Has all the truly necessary amenities: a gas station, post office, and mechanic.

Howling with laughter at this thread- I got lost near West Point last night. A silver haired lady wearing tshirt, cowboy hat and full make up helped out and said "now dear, you get lost again, you just pull over and ask anyone out here, we all just help each other out." She got in her car and led me out to the main road. I've done that for poor lost visitors at home before. That's the real USA to me- that made me miss my grandmother- it's acceptable to wear jeans to get the mail, but never step out of the house without makeup;)

So...find a prosperous but non touristy town just about anywhere. Like someone said, less than 25,000. Of course, you'll need a car. And bring a book or two- no cell reception, little shopping, no movie theater. But if there's a bar, or gas station, or post office, or church, I promise that you'll meet people! (The clue is to walk into the local watering hole and find a table of old farmers/ranchers in the back. You've definitely arrived in "real" America if you've come across that scene.) And if you're bored out of your mind after a few hours? Some of us "real Americans" spent the first 18 years in a place like West Point. Boredom won't kill, I promise!

marvelous - The Fodorite won't be using a car.

Diane- yep. I know. I'd argue you can't get my "real America" by transit. Anything worthy of transit is automatically disqualified for being too big! But in reality, no (international!) tourist would want to spend time in most of "real America". Of course, like someone above said- even NYC is someone's "real America".

But I suppose if serious suggestions are necessary...and the OP was hoping for hometown suggestions...you can fly NYC-Seattle-Walla Walla. You don't need a car in Walla Walla. Wine tasting is the main thing to do. And we real Walla Wallans enjoy watching the tourists...

How about flying to Indianapolis and attending the Indiana State Fair for a day or two, than taking the train to Chicago for another couple of days before returning to NYC or Ireland? Obviously they're bigger cities than 100,000, but the state fair experience would be terrific.

Same idea, but this time fly to Milwaukee, visit the Wisconsin State Fair (west of the city) then continue an hour or two west (plenty of transport options) to Madison, WI, a lovely lakefront town with a huge range of cultural and visitor options. (It's the state capital as well as the home of the University of Wisconsin.)

Both state fairs are on during your preferred week, and you can't get more "real American" than that.

http://in.gov/statefair/fair/gen_info/index.html
http://wistatefair.com/fair/

Thanks, Deb

Yes, Daniel Williams is the guru for traveling without a car.

His trips are accessible at

http://www.fodors.com/community/prof...niel_williams/

He seems like a genuinely nice and modest person who gets to amazing places with no car, e.g. St Augustine, FL.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and more general points.

Some good and interesting ideas there.

The State Fairs sound particularly good as does the Burlington itinerary. I had been curious about Asheville but am now slightly discouraged.

Are there any particularly evocative sporting events in the offing or interesting arts festivals?

Thanks for your help.

Tim

Asheville is a fantastic small city, but if you're looking for quintessential small-town America it's not quite that, is all. As others have stated, the kind of thing you seem to be after is hard to get to without a car, and small towns with a compact, working town center are fewer and further between nowadays, especially outside of New England.

I've been to the Indiana state fair a couple of times and love that idea, if it's feasible via public transport. If you go, have a lemon shake-up for me.

I understand what the OP is going for, and I agree that it doesn't exist, although I don't see the need to be quite so scathing about it.

(The defensiveness and parochialism of New Yorkers never ceases to amaze me. You live in what is often called the greatest city in the world, but you have such thin skins.)

Anyway, Rigarama, there never was one quintessential version of America. I know you said that you wanted to leave the East Coast, but I second the idea of Portland, Maine because you can have an enjoyable visit without a car and see one kind of "real America", the New England version. And it's very different from New York.

A lot of people seem to think of the Midwest as quintessentially American, maybe because of the sentimental marketing term "the heartland", but its cities, as you've said yourself, are characteristic more of cities in general than of the American Midwest, and the rest of the region is impossible to navigate without a car.

Another idea is Albuquerque and Santa Fe. Quintessentially American? Yes and no :-) The heat might put you off, but Santa Fe is easily navigable without a car. OTOH, you'd be missing out on some of the iconic landscapes unless you hire a driver for a day or two.

Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Washington and San Francisco are wonderful places to visit without a car, but might be beyond your preferred flying distance.

Any place in Florida is going to be tough without a car, not to mention hot, rainy and humid in August.

Sorry to go on and on, but rereading my post, the list of

Portland, ME
New York City
Santa Fe
Portland, OR
Seattle, WA
San Francisco, CA
Florida
the Midwest

illustrates in and of itself the impossibility of finding the Real America :-)

I don't care for Asheville, btw. Twee, and overrated, IMO.

<i>Are there any particularly evocative sporting events in the offing or interesting arts festivals?</i>

Arts festivals and evocative sports events tend to be located in larger towns; you could easily be in danger of asking for too many things out of one destination - proximity, public transportation, small size, cultural attractions...

But going back to the state fair idea, what about taking the Amtrak Cardinal - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_%28train%29 - ostensibly one of the most beautiful train routes in the country - to Indianapolis, arriving in time for the signature "world's toughest rodeo" that's part of the fair? Doesn't get much more American than that. http://rodeosusa.com/rodeos/worlds-t...er-horse-fair/

You could continue on to Chicago for various music activities, or turn around on the Cardinal but get off this time at Charlottesville VA, a gorgeous college town (campus designed by Thomas Jefferson, whose home, Monticello, is outside the city.) Charlottesville is a perfect small city with all of the features you're looking for. Then back to NYC and off you go. http://gardyloo.us/20110423_38as.JPG and http://gardyloo.us/20110424_17as.JPG

NewBe - I'm a new Yorker and I suggested Mass.

Tell us where we can go for the "real Ireland" and then maybe that will help us understand what you're looking for.

Again many thanks for the suggestions and the other views. The state fair idea is growing on me and Gardyloo's suggested itinerary looks really good.

It is possible that I fell for the clichéd view of the mid-West (thanks Hollywood!) but as I grew up in a town of 7,000, I have no illusions that small-town Ireland (or America) has as many limitations as it has charms. That is why I put an estimated population size of 100,000 in my OP.

I sometimes use a different definition for scale : does the place in question have a suburban bus service and is it possible to go to the cinema in the afternoon on weekdays? If yes, its big enough.

I'd also be very happy to offer advice on the "real Ireland" or, as we are learning from this thread - the "real IrelandS". Again probably from my own background, I'd suggest locations outside of Dublin. (But as most visitors use it for access, you get exposed to Dublin by default.) By and large, I'd recommend a triangular itinerary (not using the Motorways) of Dublin - Ennis - Cork - Dublin. But that may be for another time.

Again many thanks for the suggestions. Hopefully by Thursday I will have a full palette to chose from (and a definitive view on Asheville!)

Tim

If you're flying out of New York and don't want to go too far, you may be able to find what you're looking for by spending some time in Mercer County, NJ and Bucks County, PA.

You've got the very quaint, relaxed, tourist friendly towns of Lambertville, NJ and New Hope, PA directly across the river from each other.

You've got the university town of Princeton, which has its own merits and draw even when school isn't in session.

And for a city that is certainly "Real America" but of a different kind than say these quaint little towns, Trenton NJ is the state capital of about 84K, but is complex, diverse, and in a state of transition.

Pairing these places together is pretty easy with NJ Transit trains and buses, and you might get a more holistic look at this "Real America" thing.

And certainly in Trenton and Princeton, you can take a suburban bus and go to a movie on a weekday afternoon.

The point remains that there is no such thing as real America. There are countless varieties of America. And to pick one makes no sense although it might satisfy some need that has been found.

Have you visited Boston? It seems to fit your criteria.

Thanks "Inspired Ex". Could be a good idea. Do you happen to know if there is any resonance of the writer SJ Perelman who decamped to Bucks County at one stage?. Thanks also to Basingstoke2. I have indeed visited Boston but not since 1999. When family return to NY, we may well revisit.

Thanks all.

"And for a city that is certainly "Real America" but of a different kind than say these quaint little towns, Trenton NJ"

Are you insane? No one has gone to Trenton on vacation since the Constitutional Convention.

"The point remains that there is no such thing as real America."

I think the OP knows that. He's looking for a contrast to NYC (which, in my opinion, is more international than American).

Trenton? Seriously? I live 11 miles away and everyone has told me NOT to park my car there and ride into NYC. So I drive 16 miles to a "safer" location.

I live in NC. There are plenty of places here that might fit the OP's criteria. But I agree with others-not having a car could be a problem. Public transportation in the northeast is so great. But it is not at ALL like that down here.

Asheville is a tourist town full of transplants. I like it but I don't think it's emblematic of real anything.

<Trenton NJ is the state capital of about 84K, but is complex, diverse, and in a state of transition.>
That is phrased so kindly as to be misleading, lol. Trenton is no place for a tourist when so many better options exist.

Suewoo

The irony is that transplanted Americans are as American as you can get. If you look at the growth of your state, FL, AZ, and CA, for instance, they are basically people from other states.

All good stuff. I'd be curious about Trenton and I think I can pick up the subtle hints. Its also handy to reach, so maybe a day-trip or a week-end might be best.

The tide is going out on Asheville, I'm afraid, but I'll have a look into Bucks County and Charlottesville Va. The list is getting longer all the time!

Thanks.

Tim

Your dates are too early. but I would have suggested going to the Little League World Series in Williamsport, Pa.

You could fly to Portland, Maine, enough to do there for a few days, as said above, then take the train to Boston for the rest of your time. Unfortunately the Red Sox are out of town your week but return on the 14th. From Boston, take the train back to NYC.

From Boston, you can go to Salem for a day, and take the fast ferry to Provincetown another day.

OK, stepping aside from the epistemological issue of what constitutes reality....

Burlington, Vermont: yes, it's got a lot of what OP is looking for. I live here half the year. Come visit.

Some of my faves in the category of big town/small city with good stuff going on, which I think is what the OP seeks (and they all have airports):

Bozeman, Montana
Boise, Idaho
Flagstaff, Arizona
Portland, Oregon

Good luck, enjoy your travels!

Rather than choosing one old town for a week how about touring around an area.
Central NC could work--and include Mt. Airy, the home of Mayberry. How "real" is that!! Winston Salem, Hillsborough, even Chapel Hill.
You could pick almost any state and find this--largish cities surrounded by small towns.
My home town in Ohio still has the town square and the two story business buildings surrounding it. Imagine, an escalator (!!) to get to that second floor! But now upscale bakery, restaurant, book store, etc. instead of the "office supply store" where you bought paper clips, rubber bands and carbon paper for your typewriter.
Think about it.