One important factor in comparing Dallas to San Antonio would be the quality and quantity of restaurants in each city. I've checked a major rating organization for the number of restaurants that rated at least one star for both cities, and added a few other cities to put it in context.

Dallas is way ahead of SA for restaurants, and everybody wants to eat, right? My reference is the URL at the bottom.

Chicago - 220 restaurants

5 stars - 2
4 stars - 8
3 stars - 56
2 stars - 107
1 star - 47


Dallas - 184 restaurants

4 stars - 3
3 stars - 41
2 stars - 97
1 star - 43


Boston - 102 restaurants

4 stars - 6
3 stars - 34
2 stars - 50
1 star - 12


Washington DC - 97 restaurants

4 stars - 3
3 stars - 28
2 stars - 34
1 star - 32


Houston - 91 restaurants

4 stars - 1
3 stars - 21
2 stars - 45
1 star - 24


San Antonio - 41 restaurants

4 stars - 1
3 stars - 8
2 stars - 19
1 star - 13



http://www.mobiltravelguide.com/mtg/...mp;bodytid=102

This is a great post, but no one seems to get a hint of the real historic Texas - a shame, as Texas is, and Texans are, really wonderful.
That said, I'm relocating to my home in SMdA,MX, as the Feds are .......
M

Personally, we don't eat in 5-star restaurants even at home, and definitely not in San Antonio. When we are there, we favor the "mom and pop" Mexican restaurants that make traditional Norteno Mexican food that we can't get in Dallas: guiso, steak tampiquena, authentic chile rellenos, and cabrito. We've found a few places in Dallas that make these specialties, but not as well as in San Antone. :-)

The very best MX food is served in the houses of the educated mamas in the State de Guanajuato and perhaps in the city of San Miguel de Allende.
TEX/MEX is not a close second.
M

I agree with Mikemo. I'd also like to add that I like San Antonio and Dallas each for their own reasons and certainly not one over the other. Sometimes I feel like being in the big city, and sometimes I prefer the quaint atmosphere of San Antonio. Sometimes I even prefer to "degrade" myself so much as to visit Bandera. :)

The restaurants noted above are obviously only those who decided to list with the Mobil Travel Guide, which I wouldn't typically rely on for great cuisine recommendations myself. There are literally 1,000's of restaurants in the Houston area, and certainly more than one four star.

Just my two cents.

Statia, the Mobil Travel Guide and the AAA guides are the most prestigious rating systems in the USA. They have a large staff of professional inspectors who apply uniform standards of evaluation to the properties they review. If there are any restaurants in a town that deserve one or two or three stars, they will get it. It is to the financial advantage of the Mobil Travel Guide to be as inclusive and as complete as possible.

Restaurants do not "choose to be listed", Mobil chooses the restaurants to list, and to award stars to.

Do you know of a Houston restaurant comparable to a Mobil 4 star, but not on their list at all? They sure didn't miss any Dallas restaurants.

Christie, I don't eat in 4 star restaurants either, but I do eat in lots of 1 and 2 star ones. I thank God every day that I live in a city that has more of them than even Boston and Washington does, and far more than San Antonio does.

No, the little joints are not better in SA, they're just different, in a way that you like.

xbt, I quite frankly don't have the time that you must have to research statistics on the internet regarding which restaurants, hotels, attractions, etc. receive various ratings according to whomever evaluates them. As we all know, that varies by the rater. For the time you commit to this little project, however, I must commend you.

At your request I quickly found the following stats with regards to restaurants between "The Big H" and "The Big D," as I was raised to refer to them in the "Loud Mouth's CB Club" when I was just native traveling Texan "young-un."

There might be a couple of more "highest rated" restaurants in Dallas, but I think that most of us dine at the "mid to high end" establishments on a regular basis, for which there are a higher number in Houston, as you can see. As I stated before, however, there is definitely more than "one" high end restaurant in Houston, and I'm sure this doesn't even scratch the surface.

16/20 rating:
Big D: 7
Big H: 5

16/20 rating:
Big D: 13
Big H: 34

14/20 rating:
Big D: 34
Big H: 11

Dallas Results
http://www.gayot.com/restaurantpages/tally.php?code=DF

Houston Results
http://www.gayot.com/restaurantpages/tally.php?code=HO

Please note that neither city had a rating over 16/20. I think those are probably reserved for the likes of NYC and other larger metro areas, myself.

In closing (since I won't be reading this thread any longer) I would like to add that IMHO most cities in Texas, both great and small, have something to offer tourists and Texan's alike. I was raised in Houston, but have now lived overseas working as an international buyer for more than a decade. Houston will always have my heart, but I must admit I have also had some wonderful adventures in Dallas, including retail buying at the Dallas Mart. I still enjoy San Antonio, and yes, even Bandera and the beautiful Texas hill country just as much though.

I think it all boils down to what you are looking for in either a weekend jaunt (as the OP asked about) or a lengthy vacation. Texas is a "whole other country" and all of it has something for everyone.

I sure wish Fodors would enlist an edit function one of these days. Pardon my typo in the second listing above. It should read 15/20, rather than 16/20. Sorry!

Statia, I agree with you about an edit function.

Never heard of your "Guyot" rating organization, but the Mobil restaurant and hotel system is pretty much the gold standard in America. When they publish a list of their stars, national newspapers like USA Today print the results.

So I'll stick with them.

And interestingly enough, the number of restaurants they star is in rough proportion to the size of the metro area they are in. Dallas is the 5th or 4th largest metro in America, and its restaurant count is the 5th best in America, behind the likes of NY, LA, Chicago and San Francisco.

Houston is perhaps the 8th largest metro, and its restaurant count in Mobil is comparable.

I guess it's all relative to where you look and who you ask.

According to the following link, Houston is the 4th top city in the US by population and rank. San Antonio is 8th and Dallas is 9th. I guess these numbers speak for themselves if, as you say, the population of a city is the end all of what makes it superior.

However, I still stand by my statement that each of those three cities have their positives and negatives, all being relative to what specifics a person is looking for.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

No, Statia, these numbers do not speak for themselves.

By "city", the link really means "municipal government".

Since metro Dallas is fragmented into many municipal government, a meaningful figure would be the population of each metro area.

According to the US Census in April 2000, these are the numbers:

1 - New York - 18,323,002
2 - Los Angeles - 12,365,627
3 - Chicago - 9,098,316
4 - Philadelphia - 5,687,147
5 - Dallas - 5,161,544
6 - Miami - 5,007,564
7 - Washington 4,796,183
8 - Houston - 4,715,407
9 - Detroit - 4,452,557
10 - Boston - 4,391,344

... other cities ...

27 - Sacramento - 1,796,857

29 - San Antonio - 1,711,703

31 - Columbus, OH - 1,612,694

Since Dallas had a growth rate of 29% during 1990-2000, its current estimated population would be about 5, 800,000, putting it about equal to Philadelphia in population.

The URL: http://www.census.gov/population/www...0/phc-t29.html

Wow, I think the San Jose obsessive moved to Texas. You all need to learn the lesson it took us so long in CA to learn. Ignore. Otherwise they don't ever stop.

Disagree, Grasshopper... people deserve a clear and accurate picture of the difference between Dallas and San Antonio.

Some people tend to forget that gzseattle has a 9 months old baby..I presume that she is not interested in going shopping at Versace's , going to the museums or eat at fancy restaurants either..
I have been to Dallas only once and to be honest the city left me cold..The only thing that I enjoyed there was watching my first professional American football game, The Cowboys versus the Red Skin.
Other than that, Dallas is just another big city with a lots of traffic..

I take San Antonio anytime..
People are much more friendly, the Mariachis, the wonderful River walk has so much flair with his cafe and restaurants , very European.
It is so nice just to sit outdoors , sip a cappuccino or a Margaritas and watch the people go by..

We should not forget the Fiesta, the River Parades, the Battle of the Flowers and most of all the Alamo..
Dallas cannot compare to San Antonio at all..

TxTravel, I may be a breath of sanity and clarity in a world of illusion, but to you, I'm just a nightmare. If so, you've got problems. You need to learn to accept points of view that contradict your own.

Kismet, many people with 9 month old children like to patronize specialty shops, eat in good restaurants, see some of the best art in the world, listen to music in one of the best halls... Bass Hall in FW, Meyerson in Dallas. Or sit in one of Dallas' urban pedestrian zones with a good latte and watch the world go by. We even have "cry-baby matinees" at the art film houses, where mothers can bring babies and still enjoy a good film.

If SA does rings your bell, but you don't appreciate the cultural and social opportunities of a city the size of Dallas, that's OK with us. We don't have to put up with your griping, and SA will appreciate your cries of joy and pleasure.

Now if your attitudes were the general opinion, SA would be the biggest resort in the world.

xbt,

Before you go away, could you look at my question about Italian restaurants in Dallas? LOL

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34544683

Jocelyn, I'll be glad to help any way that I can... before TxTravelPro consigns me to cyberspace Hades.

Around McKinney Avenue where the trolley is, there is, of course, Il Molino... a branch of a famous Italian eatery in Manhattan. But they might be expensive and, in a word, high-falutin. You might try Pomodoro-Arcodoro on Routh Street. It's about a 1-2 block walk from McKinney Avenue.

I don't know about smaller children, but my 7 year old granddaughter really enjoyed visiting Olk City Park, just south of downtown Dallas. It's a city park that has been converted into a village of 19th century buildings... farmhouses, town houses, a blacksmith shop, farm animals... she enjoyed petting the donkeys, feeding hay to the sheep and the blacksmith even made her a nail.

Jocelyn, how could I forget?

Gelato is also an Italian treat.

The local Paciugo's chain of gelato stores was started by an Italian couple, and it has taken the city by storm. There are several locations to get it, but the easiest is to take the McKinney Ave trolley to the West Village, and walk to the Paciugo's near the Magnolia Theatre.

Excellent stuff... got to taste it.

Thank you! The Old City Park sound perfect. That should round out our day nicely. We have a Paciugo here in Tulsa, conveniently located a block away from the kids' preschool. We were just there last week. Have you tried the pumpkin pie gelato???

By the way, San Antonio's next, as we're going there in March. I'm looking forward to both.

Grasshopper,
I had the same thought about the San Jose thing (about 60 posts ago, LOL) but at least xbt is truthful and definitely more respectful. In reality, this thread is a wealth of information about both cities.

The Dallas World Aquarium (in West End) is FAR more than just tanks of fish. They have an entire rain forest replicated indoors, complete with howler monkeys, manatees, a jaguar, and a huge crocodile. Wow! My 2 nephews (8 and 4) adore the place.

Which trolley are you referring to? McKinney Ave?

Yes, McKinney Ave Trolley. Where will we have the best luck with parking?

So I gather what you're saying from this is those census statistics is that Dallas is only bigger(and therefore better by your books) than Houston IF you include Fort Worth in the equation. Because Houston from those census statistics is bigger than Dallas if you don't include Fort Worth :-). Funny, I always grew up thinking of those two having their own unique identities (Dallas and Ft. Worth) kind of like DC and Baltimore (which oddly enough are listed separately from one another in that census).

Jocelyn, there are plenty of surface parking lots near the West End. There is also a West End parking garage. I've personally never been on the McKinney trolley, so I'm not sure how far of a walk it will be from the West End to the nearest stop.

My dear xbt2316
....Perhaps you are right that I dont appreciate the cultural aspect that a city like Dallas has to offer..

Of course, being raised in a city like Rome, Dallas cultural life does not impress me at ALL..

Daniel_Willams,

metro Dallas contains a hundred independent political subdivisions like Fort Worth, Arlington, Irving, Plano, etc. Since traffic and commerce is intermingled among them, they are part of one contiguous urban area, in the same way that London is composed of many politically independent municipalities. This is a fact of life in American urban areas, and is why the Federal OMB defines metropolitan areas apart from municipalities.

And no, there is no separate Fort Worth metro, since Tarrant County, which contains municipal Fort Worth, is a commuter suburb of Dallas County. About 30% of the Tarrant County workforce is employed in Dallas county. Metro Dallas has about 10,000 restaurants listed in the city guide, and the customers for them come from the many municipalities in metro Dallas, not just one.

KismetChimera,

Rome's cultural life does not impress me. La Scala Milan impresses me, as does the Concertgebouw Amsterdam, or the Louvre, or the Royal Albert Hall, or the Neue Pinatothek in Munich. The things happening in Barcelona are exciting, but Roma? Not even on the radar.

If you think that Rome has a cultural institution comparable to the Nasher collection, or an Asian art museum as good as the Crow, or a hall as good as the Meyerson, or a modern art museum as beautiful as the Fort Worth Modern... name them or shut up.

The only impression I have of Rome's "culture" is the mindless boredom and depravity depicted in the film "La Dolce Vita", the movie that gave birth to the term "papparazzi"..

Of course, the TV program "Dallas" may have been depraved, but it was never boring. Obviously.

Oh, I know... by "culture", you mean the endless sequence of "spaghetti westerns"... yee...haw!

Well, you did have some good filmmaking from De Sica, Fellini and Antonioni, but those glory days are over. We see a good number of European films here in Dallas, but few of them are Italian.

Maybe San Antonio is a hotbed of Italian cinema?

I don't know about the rest of your factoids, but you are wrong to write that there is no separate Fort Worth metro. Fort Worth Transportation Authority historically has provided buses across established neighborhoods in town and a few years ago hooked into the DART train line so you can ride the Dallas trains to downtown Fort Worth.

wsoxrebl,

You're right. Fort Worth has a mbs service called "The T".

Actually, when I say "Metro", I mean "Metropolitan Area". Fort Worth is officially part of the Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington metro area, to give it its full name.

xbt2316,
The glory that is Rome...Trying to compare this magnificient glorious city to Dallas, is like comparing day and night..
I had the biggest laugh this morning my dear!!!Grazie!!
Undoubtly,Millions of people that come to visit Rome every year, enjoy very much to eat SPAGHETTI..
Ciao,:)

The areas you guys point out as these world class shopping areas are simply good, upscale shopping areas that you could find in any major city! In DC, is it called Tyson's Center. In Denver, it is called Cherry Creek. In Chicago, it is called Old Orchard. In Minneapolis, ironically, it is called the Galleria. In San Diego, it is called La Jolla. In Des Moines, it is called the Merle Hay Mall.

OK, so I'm kidding with the last one. I'm just saying that Dallas' good shopping is not unique to Dallas, it is what all of America has access to in major cities.

And yes, Dallas' museums are average. I'm sorry, but every major city has some self-proclaimed "best in the world" collection of something or another. Dallas is no different.

And to list Ft. Worth as one of the hundred developments that support Dallas, that is insane. Ft. Worth has more charm and authenticity than Dallas, and is its own city. Yes, they are part of the same region, and share a name called the metroplex, but I'd say Ft. Worth and Dallas are partners in the region, much like DC / Baltimore or LA/ Orange County (Anaheim).

Hey gzseattle, let us know where you ended up - Dallas or San Antonio. Whichever one you visited you need to go again to see the other plus a few other places in Texas, it's a big state & Dallas is not the only place to visit. By the way Texas is second in size from Alaska. That's where I reside. Come up here next because Alaskans know how to show their guests a good time & shopping won't be & doesn't need to be on the agenda. I must say one thing about his thread - it reflects the fact that no one really reads what the other person posts. They have their own opinion, which is fine, but they are ready to counter another's opinion as if the other person's opinion is bogus. For example ChristieP indicates something about Mexican food & prefers mom & pops in SA over 5 star in Dallas. Then what happens you have someone posting that indicates the best Mexican food is in State de Guanajuatro which may in fact be the case, but that had nothing to do with the comments of the prior poster. By the way my wife & I are visiting Dallas/Ft Worth, Austin, San Antonio, Houston, Galveston, Fredericksburg, Bandera, Goliad, etc, etc, in March/April for the historical attractions & the bluebonnets. Texas offers Dallas but also a lot more.

Well said, Shea. That is the point that I was trying to get across.

BTW - the OP decided on San Antonio and really enjoyed it. You can find the report by clicking the OP's screen name at the top of this post.

Kismet,

This is not a thread to compare Dallas and Rome. Although that might be an interesting subject somewhere else.

Hazelmn,

I'd agree that metro areas the size of Dallas can support shopping opportunities similar to Dallas. One more reason to visit a "major" city like Dallas or Boston or Washington or Philadelphia.

Denver is not, however, in the same class as Boston, Dallas, Washington and Philadelphia, at least in terms of population.

Yes, Fort Worth has some quaint, charming spots, worth a visit. 95% of its neighborhood area, though, is no different than suburbia anywhere else in America. Dallas County is much the same, except for Uptown Dallas, the emerging urban district on the East Side, and the New Urbanism villages sprouting up here and there in Dallas, Collin and East Tarrant Counties.

When you describe our museums as "Average", do you mean that half the museums in America are better than the Nasher Sculpture Center? The New York Times said it was the best private collection in the world.

Or the Meadows Museum of Spanish Art? When they sent their collection to Madrid, the lines to enter the exhibition went around the block. The King of Spain made a point of visiting the Meadows when he returned.

Or the Dallas Museum of Art? The vast majority of art museums in American cities are much smaller, have less valuable collections, lower budgets, etc.

Very few cities have a museum of Asian art, much less one as good as the Crow.

It's so much fun needling your generalizations... and the public deserves accurate information..

I'll stand by all of my comments, and all of your anecdotes are amusing. Glad to see that you have plenty of hometown pride.

Likewise, xbt. The "truth", I guess, is everyone's to decide once they have seen a city for themselves. I'm interested to hear what others think, not people like me, xbt, or others who are so blatantly biased.

xbt2316. Your comment to Hazelmn, " I won't begrudge someone their own beliefs no matter how irrational, absurd for unrealistic they may be." This comment reflects a person who views "anyone" who has another opinion as someone who does not know what they are talking about - that you & you alone are the only authority that knows all about everything, in this case Dallas plus any other city someone happens to mention. I don't think you sit next to God nor do I believe you contribute any facts on Dallas or any other place in any travel publication, so I don't know what makes you think that you are an expert on not only Dallas but everywhere else too. If you are married I truly feel sorry for your wife. Your must be a ball to have around.

Wow. I had no idea that Dallas was such a divisive issue. I've been there a couple times, and I guess it was a nice enough place. Overall, a decent place to spend a couple days.

But y'all are forgetting the best city in Texas, Austin! We are the ones with the most life and the most innovation. I guess Dallas, Ft. Worth, San Antonia, and Houston are all ok, too!

I've been to both cities. Frankly, Dallas left NO impression on me whatsoever (nothing of interest to me was something I couldn't find elsewhere, either in greater abundance, greater quality or more cheaply). And I found its downtown area far too dull as well. San Antonio, on the other hand, was a fun place to spend a weekend. Austin is definitely more my idea of a "fun town".

But everyone has his or her own opinions, so what the heck-- I'm sure I could go back to Dallas and find SOMETHING that registers as interesting. However, I am someone who finds staggering back from Miami hotspots at 5 AM a restful Saturday night, so I'm a bit of a &quot;hard partier&quot;. That's why I love NY so much. I also like ocean air. Which is why I love living in southern California so much. Many, many people love Dallas-- so what if it's not <b>my</b> cup of (sweet) tea? Go, enjoy youself!!

Hazelmn, I'm offering explanation and evidence to support my conclusions, you're not.

I'm providing numbers from reputable sources. I'm minutely describing specifics that support my case. I'm explaining how the situations I cite came to be.And I provide information, lots of it.

The conclusions I come to are entirely supported by objectively verifiable information in the public domain.

Well, you did manage to cite the high-end shopping centers in a number of large and medium-sized cities. But you failed to explain how the smaller cities were supposed to be equal to the larger ones in buying power or goods offered for sale.

You were assuming what you were trying to prove.

On the museum issue, you were even lamer. You had no explanation at all.

Shea, I pretty much ignore or dismiss the opinions of people who can't explain them. Who wouldn't? If they can provide a plausible, convincing rationale for their views, I listen.