Dallas or Houston. Can't decide!
 

I am thinking about relocating to either Dallas or Houston in the not too distant future. I like Texas because of the warmer weather (humid or dry doesn't matter) and the lower cost of real estate. I live in DC area where it is too cold in the winter, very expensive real estate and traffic is a disaster! I know that traffic in Dallas or Houston is just slightly better but I like the fact that TxDot is building freeways, tollways and nice interchanges all the time is wonderful. At least they are doing something about it in Texas all the time. I feel like the government in Texas value the time of their people.

From what I already researched, I think I may like Houston better because it's a more mature/divers city and has more to offer + the proximity to beaches. Dallas has a lot of lakes and seems to have a little more "newer" feel to it. I also prefer Houston more because the climate in Houston supports more verities of palm trees (which I really like).

Still I am having difficult time choosing. I work in the computer IT field and it seems like Dallas have a little more opportunities than Houston.

Any input will be appreciated.

If you're moving from "Foggy Bottom" to Texas, you'll feel right at home in Houston. We've lived north of Dallas for 25+ years. Very little snow and even though winters are short...roughly two months...they can get severe, dipping to 0 degrees and below.

As to city life, I believe Dallas has lost theirs. What was once a vibrant city has become a cemetery with lights. Reminds me of all the old jokes that W. C. Fields made about Phildelphia. Of course, if you come here to get into the IT field, you'd most likely live in the northern suburbs, which are far more vibrant...some of the fastest growing cities in the state. At this rate, it won't be that many years before Dallas County becomes a suburb to Collin County.

As an aside, if you're looking to come to Texas for an IT career, why not look at Austin? That's a fantastic city with an active IT community...more than Houston I would wager.

I haven't spent that much time in Houston in recent years but I wouldn't call it a "mature" city, certainly not when compared to Dallas. The Houston area is certainly more diverse.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Thanks JimM for your reply. I actually live in the DC metro area not in DC itself. I live in a good community about 30 miles west of downtown where there are good schools and newer homes. When I move to either Dallas or Houston, I would also like to live in the suburbs where usually the good schools are.
The property values here are going through the roof. An average single family home with 3400 sq. feet and a postage stamp lot will cost around $700K+ and the prices are going up in the double digits! It's nuts! Salaries here are not that much higher than in Dallas or Houston. I already checked.
I saw comparable homes in Dallas and Houston with similar convenience to job centers in the $200K range. Now that's more like it. This way one can afford to have a decent life and not put all pay check on mortgage payments :)

I have lived in Texas (near Dallas) all of my life, so I am accustomed to humidity. Even so, the humidity near Houston in the summer can be overwhelming. If anyone has any breathing problems, you might take that into consideration. Also, more and bigger bugs (roaches) and bad hair days.

I have lived in both cities and if humidity is not a problem for you, then I say choose Houston. I prefer Houston because the winters are warmer than in Dallas, also Houston is near the Gulf and I like the ocean. Houston has so much to do, including great museums and theatre. The bad news is that besides the humidity, Houston gets a lot more rain than Dallas.

If you haven't seen it yet, there is a person named qzseattle on this board who is moving to Houston and she/he has posted asking for advice on housing, areas to live in, schools, etc. So you will want to check out those posts- type qzseattle in the search box above, hit enter, and the posts will come up.

You might enjoy the more tropical feel of Houston if you are into palms, etc. It does freeze in Dallas regularly. Houston is close to Gaveston, too, which is a wonderful place, IMO.

Dallas is certainly has plenty of suburbs, chain restaurants and malls. Lots of tollways, too... some say too many.

In general, I'd say Houston is more laid back than Dallas.

You should visit and sample both for yourself.

Thanks emd, I read the posts that you mentioned already. My interest however is in comparing the two cities: Dallas vs. Houston. qzseattle's posts were primarily about Houston neighborhoods and schools, etc.

I visited both cities back in 1999. I spent more time in Dallas though. I had good impression about both cities but I want to get a feel of what people who live or lived there think. Dallas seemed to be cleaner and with a ?newer? feel and local roads had nicer pavement. I remember lots of pot holes in Houston ;)

You are correct about pot holes. The soil is very soft in Houston, that's why they have potholes. But as you know, there are many factors to consider. Maybe you should visit again soon.

What about Austin? That's where I live and it's great. Come and visit Austin if you get a chance.

Falafel-
I grew up in Dallas and still have family/friends there. I have a lot of friends from Houston and have spent some time there as well.

I would say in many ways, the two cities are similar. Both are experiencing surburban sprawl where everything is very new but both also have pockets of older areas that to me, are very charming and interesting. Houston does seem more diverse both ethnically speaking and culturally with a good arts scene. Both have great restaurants but I'd have to give the edge to Houston. Another factor for me would be the ability to get out of the cities easily and both cities are hubs for major airlines which is nice.

If I had to pick, I'd pick Dallas. I don't mind heat but the humidity in Houston is absolutely something else. Dallas winters are short and now that I live in Minneapolis and have some perspective on what real winters are like, very painless.

That's about it for my two cents. If you're looking for somewhere that is more laid back than Dallas, Fort Worth is great. Although the two cities are close together, they do have different vibes...
JaneR

Ok Falafel. One more thing, have you seen the website I posted about on "Houston: It's Worth It". It's a website where Houstonians post on why it is worth living in Houston (and what they have to put up with to live there). It's funny, but very insightful too. www.houstonitsworthit.com
I don't know if Dallas has enough of a sense of humor to have a site like that.

If schools are a consideration, I think Dallas has the edge. There are wonderful, nationally renowned public school districts in the area, including Flower Mound, Carrolton, McKinney and Frisco. The community of Southlake (centrally located between Dallas and Fort Worth) has top-notch schools -- the distric is called Carroll ISD and your children would thrive there.

Well, this is an interesting thread!

I've lived in far north Dallas (Collin County) for 25 years and feel it is so much nicer than Houston. It's cleaner, has zoning which Houston does not, and doesn't have the oppressive humidity. We're also in the top rated Plano schools. Frisco is now the up and coming suburb just north of Plano but they're gowing so fast the school situation is affected. We also have good theater and all professional sports.

Although it may get cold in winter, (we even had snow that lasted three days last year!) it's not the bone chilling cold and it doesn't last. In Texas they say if you don't like the weather, wait five minutes and it will change. The coldest I remember it ever getting was 17 degrees and that was very unusual.

My youngest son, who graduated from U Texas in Austin, lived in Houston for a year and hated it. Austin is great, but the IT business really took a hit there a few years ago and I don't know if they've completely recovered as yet.
Dell is located there and is growing.

You'll find that you'll get much more house for the money here in Texas. If you have kids, I would definitely have a pool since it is so hot in the summer. It gets them out and exercising.

Hope this helps. Have fun!

I've been in Dallas for 9 years and I can tell you the most important thing about living here is knowing who you are and what type of neighborhood you'll be most comfortable in. There is everything from new-money mcmansions to older established arts and crafts homes. Your neighborhood/city/suburb choice will greatly determine your happiness in Big D.

Pepper is absolutely right. Don't move to an area just because the schools have a high rating without first feeling it out to see if you'll fit in.
"Know thyself" is the best advice no matter where you are thinking about living.

Everyone feels rich when they move to Texas because of their low property values. The property taxes are very high, though.
The IT field may be flooded in Dallas with all the EDS layoffs.

Personally, I can't take the humidity and the summer smog in Houston. And the beaches at Galveston are not very pretty! (I'd much rather get on a plane and got to Mexico or South Padre Island than drive to Galveston!)

One BIG thing to consider before moving to Dallas is that you will want to live fairly close to where you work. Admittedly, Dallas traffic is bad, and spending an hour each way fighting traffic makes one miserable quickly!

If you want a more laid-back lifestyle, do consider Fort Worth. The city has wonderful museums, better property values, and a wonderful "hometown" feel. I'm a proud resident of Tarrant County and I love it!

As for schools, Carroll ISD is good, but it is also suffering from affluenza. Kids there drive brand-new cars and keeping up appearances are very important. (When there are so many $1 million homes in the district, this is understandable!) Carroll has hit the maximum state allowable property tax rate, so the district has to find alternative methods to finance the schools. Elementary art and music programs have been cut way back, and secondary students have to pay extra to do any extracurricular activites, such as sports, drama, or band. Hopefully, when Robin Hood (Texas' unconstitutional school finance scheme) is finally revamped, things will improve in Carroll ISD.

Wow. A lot of responses. I saw this thread earlier, but didn't have time to respond then.

I live in Houston, and while I have not lived in Dallas, I have visited frequently (as my firm is based there). I MUCH prefer Houston to Dallas. First, Houston is a very laid back, open city. By that, I mean it completely welcomes newcomers. Most Houstonians grew up somewhere else. You can get as involved as you want -- whether it is in civic associations, the arts, or politics. By contrast, Dallas tends to be more conservative, closed and religious (primarily Southern Baptist).

Yes, Houston is more humid. I grew up in Baltimore (and it's like Baltimore humidity, but for a much longer time). However, the winters are mild and December and February are usually wonderful.

I think some of this depends on what you're like -- if you're younger, I'd definately say Houston. If you have a family and want to join a community with an established church, I'd probably say Dallas.

I think we have better options for quick getaways from Houston -- Galveston (1 hour drive), South Padre Island (a 6 - 7 hour drive), San Antonio (3-1/2 hr drive), Austin (3 hr. drive), Navasota (1 hr. to see the bluebonnets in the spring), Brenham (1-1/2 hr. to visit Blue Bell Creamery), New Orleans (6 - 7 hour drive), etc. Now of course, the distances you have to travel in Texas are much greater than in the mid-Atlantic states!

Is Houston perfect? Of course not. I'd like a few hills now and then and less humidity. But if it had these things, it would be too crowded.

Susan

Falafel, if you are out in the Farifax county area you will be amazed at the home you can buy in Texas!
I vote for Houston. Dallas is actually the older of the two cities. Houston really didn't even start to develop until the first part of the 20th century; there's a local joke that historic in Houston means the paint is dry. (And yes, Houston attitude is much more likely to allow for self deprecating humor than Dallas, which tends more toward the pursed lip reaction to such things.) Houston is larger, with a decidedly more diverse and forward-thinking population and has the edge on restaurants, museums and cultural life in general too. Dallas is not a wasteland, but it is firmly on the Bible belt, and Houston offers more. Both have traffic, but Dallas is a lot worse in my experience. In terms of weather, Houston summer humidity is no worse than what you get in the DC area, maybe even a little better. Dallas does have colder winters, and DFW has one of the highest number of weather (high wind) related delays in the country.
A few folks mentioned Austin. You may like it, too. It is smaller than either of the other two, has more of a hip edge to it, but does not offer the same type of city atmosphere. Real estate tends to be higher in Austin because is seen as a desirable place to live. Traffic has gotten nasty, too.
You mentioned that you would probably end up in the burbs - Dallas is crammed with plots of cookie cutter McMansions , and the much heralded Plano is the archetype of the uber-developed community. They boast about their schools, but they also have a high teen suicide rate and a big drug problem. Houston isn't nirvna, but it is a lot less pretentious.

Plug in Dallas and Houston at bestplaces.net and see which comparisons are most important to you:

http://www.bestplaces.net/city/ccompare.aspx

You've got a lot of good information to chew on. However, I've got to differ with your valuation of a good 3400 sq ft house in a good Dallas area neighborhood for $200K. Better figure on $320K to $350K...$95 - $100 per sq ft. Then you have to consider homeowners association fees and property taxes. And there's a whole bag of snakes being opened regarding how to pay for schools.

Make sure you take a hard look at the governments in Texas, especially how they value their people compared to their jobs.

I faced this same issue when I moved from Montgomery County MD to Houston 14 years ago. I have not looked back, but feel that you could do well in whatever city gave you the best career opportunity. I do not get homesick for the D.C. area, do not miss the winter weather, and find summer is not necessarily worse here, it is simply longer in duration. And yes, traffic is not as bad in Houston as in D.C. regardless of what Houstonians may believe. Finally, say goodbye to income taxes! Yes,

I faced this same issue when I moved from Montgomery County MD to Houston 14 years ago. I have not looked back, but feel that you could do well in whatever city gave you the best career opportunity. I do not get homesick for the D.C. area, do not miss the winter weather, and find summer is not necessarily worse here, it is simply longer in duration. And yes, traffic is not as bad in Houston as in D.C. regardless of what Houstonians may believe. Finally, say goodbye to income taxes! Yes, property tax rates are steep, but as you mention, valuations are lower than in the D.C. area.

Wow! It seems like you wrote your message on my behalf. I am in exactly the same situation. I am also in IT and am frustrated at the high cost of real estate in Seattle area. By the way, Forbes recently compiled a list of top ten cities with the greatest disparity between the housing cost and income. It turned out that Seattle is # 1! A 2000 sq feet house cost around $350,000!

In any case, I didn't want to see all my income going towards mortgage payments. One has to take into account other outlays such as education fund, family vacations, savings etc. I therefore decided to move to Texas. You are right that real estate is much lower there and IT salaries are comparable to what you get elsewhere (aside from Bay area). I was looking for opportunities in Houston, Dallas and Austin and have found a good opportunity in Houston so my search is over.

I was in Houston in August for a few days. I didn't find the humidity too bad, may be because I lived in Asia for long time. I hope it doesn?t get worst than that. Also, I am hoping that even if summer is bad, the rest of the year is fine. The main things that bothered me were the lack of zoning and the endless strip malls. However, the suburbs are nice (I went to Katy and Sugarland, and hear that the Woodlands is quite nice).

Like you, I also asked people to compare Dallas and Houston. People tend to tell me that Dallas is newer, cleaner and more cosmopolitan. Someone told me Houston is more congested although I don't know what that means since Houston is a wide, open city. Other people tell me that they are quite similar. I have never been to Dallas so can't compare them and can't verify this. Personally, having lived in Seattle for so long, I am used to greenery and occasional rain and I believe Houston is greener than Dallas, which is drier.

By the way, I do not know what is the property tax rate in DC but it is quite high in Texas. Depending on the community, you should expect to pay between 2% to 4%, or even higher. So, if the rate is 3%, you would pay $9000/year on a $300,000 house (or about $750 a month)! On the other hand, there is no state tax in Texas so if you pay state tax you would save there. Unfortunately, as far state tax is concerned, I have no advantage since Washington state also doesn't have state tax.

Seamus- In 1983 seven young people committed suicide in Plano. There were also severe drug problems within their group. The schools and the community worked together to solve the problems. Have you heard of more lately?

Plano is a very well managed city and there are all income groups. Yes, there are many mansions but there are also homes in all price ranges.

Falafel, visit again and decide for yourself. Look at realtor.com and see what's available. Good luck in your search.

I lived in the DC area and have lived in Dallas for years and San Antonio. Personally, I wouldn't move to TX if I were you. Few day trips compared to the East. Yes, housing is cheaper. If you do move to TX, I would skip Dallas and Houston. Dallas= traffic, chain everything. Houston= bad air quality, huge highways. How about Austin or San Antonio. They are smaller, more culture.

Don't know if this is relevant, but if you want good falafel you are more likely to find it in Houston than Dallas, and certainly much less likely to find it at all in San Antonio or Austin.

Wow! What a wonderful people! I did not expect to get as much responses. You all have good advice and I sincerely appreciate it all. I will keep monitoring this thread but by now I think I am already more biased toward Houston. Like Binthair which used to live in my area a while back, I think the weather is not going to be an issue. We have hot & humid weather in the summer and extremely cold winters (Nov.-Mar.) in the Washington area. The spring and fall is usually ruined by the rain. In Houston, the summer and humidity are a little longer than here but you cancel out the brutality of the winter. Also, in Northern Virginia (DC metro) the traffic is so bad that the only few freeways we have gets clogged so fast. Commuters start spilling over to the small streets and the residential streets as well! Imagine having commuter traffic twice a day passing through your neighborhood! We have too many special interest groups and environmentalists that many freeways that were on the master plan for Washington and the burbs were canceled. Now it is too late! There is no more space left to do anything even if they wanted to. This reason is also why real estate is sky rocketing. People no longer can move faraway because they can't spend half of their day in traffic. This increases the demand for housing in the closest area around the city. Even the subway/metro is not a good option most of the time because it does not go too many places. It is very limited and expensive. Another fact is that the concept of peak rush hour is fading. Rush hour is always at peak during the morning and evening hours. Wheather you leave home at 5:00AM or 7:00AM or 9:00AM chances are the volume is the same! Anyway, I don't want to bore you guys with our problems here. You guys have a great city weather it's Houston or Dallas. I will be proud to call one of them home in the near future.

qzseattle & Binthair, I would like to contact you guys somehow. If you would please drop me an email message. I can be reached at [email protected]

I will continue to monitor this thread as more comments pur in :)

cm -- hasn't San Antonio surpassed Dallas in terms of size recently?

You are correct about that Bellairegirl. Of course, SA is not as big as the entire DFW metro area, but it is now bigger than Dallas itself.

San Antonio's metropolitan population is much smaller than Dallas. What it "surpass" is population within its city limit, which has little meaning. I just hate those newscasters in Houston keep saying we are the 3rd or 4th largest country in the US. Unless you are a city council member or the mayor who wants to boast, that means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Dallas is surrounded by many smaller cities - Irving, Arlington, Grapevine, Plano, etc where the population growth is. Houston and San Antonio just keeps annexing surrounding areas to become part of the city limit and the growth is within itself.

Binthair - Really good falafel at Izmir in Dallas and probably the best hummus in the world!!

To look at homes in DFW, go to Ebby.com. They are nicely categorized by neighborhoods and suburbs.

Falafel, you hopefully subscribe to the email offers that come out each Tuesday for Continental and American Airlines. This weekend for instance, you could get to Dallas (DFW)on American from Wash Natl. airport for $169, leaving after 7 pm on Fri or anytime Sat and returning Mon. or Tues. Then you can go yourself and check out the cities as well. I wouldn't move anywhere without checking it out firsthand. Continental goes to Houston nonstop (also Southwest goes from BWI to Houston nonstop).

Okay - another vote for Houston here. I consider myself a native Houstonian b/c I've lived here since I was 6 yrs. old (born in NYC). I now live in the Silverlake area of Pearland (just south of Houston) and have been there for the past 7 years and love it. Pearland has a "hometown" feel to it, too. My home was new when we moved into it and is 3400 sq. feet w/ an in-ground pool, and our mortgage is less than $200K. I will have to agree that the beaches at Galveston are not extremely pretty but kind of muddy b/c of the proximity to the Mississipi delta. However, one thing that's great about Houston is that there is more than one way to get around town. So if there is a major wreck or construction going on, usually you can find a way around it. The humid heat can be bad in the summer, but pretty much everything is air-conditioned here. The museum and theatre districts here are great, too. There is also a huge mix of cultures here. I suggest visiting again - there's new roadways and new additions all over the city since 1999. The new Metrorail is hopefully going to extend out to other parts of the city and suburbs, also. Plus the downtown and mid-town areas have been revitalized in preparation for the past Superbowl and MLB All-Star game.

Good luck in making your decision!

I read about the new freeways/tollways. They are actually very nice. The Hardy Toll way is amazing that it actually runs parallel to I-45! I bet the folks at the Woodlands can get to downtown in less than 35 minute drive at rush hour. The new WestPark Tollway and Fort Bend Parkway are awesome too! The Grand Parkway also caught my attention! I think having a third loop around the city is very nice. I was also dazzled by some pictures I saw of the stack at beltway 8 and 290! I like the fact that Houston?s policy is to build a stack to connect freeways instead of the cheaper, impeding cloverleaf?s!

I see a lot of redundancy in highways in Houston which is a huge plus! Not many cities in the US or in the whole world can claim that I bet!

Houston has no zoning, intense humidity and the streets flood during even moderate rain.

Dallas has DFW Airport, which means you can get a direct flight to just about anywhere. Dalllas also has the Wright Amendment, which means that we can fly Southwest only to states that touch Texas, which means that we pay more for airfare to lots of locations.

Both cities have lots of shopping and restaurants; little natural beauty.

If I were starting over again in Texas, I'd choose Austin or San Antonio.

I have heard of the Wright Amendment but didn't know exactly what it was. I looked at SW's web page and all of their flights from Dallas do go to border states, except they also fly from Dallas to Brimingham, AL, so maybe there's an exception for that city. What is the purpose of the Wright Amendment?

Falafel...you really should look at Austin, as someone else suggested. It combines some of the good of both Dallas and Houston and brings its own good into the mix as well. Its winters aren't as cold as Dallas nor are its summers as hot and humid as Houston. It borders the Hill Country, where Texans from all areas of the state head for R&R. It has a vibrant night life and the tech community is well established. Downsides are housing prices and traffic.

We've just returned from visiting Dallas...where we used to live. I'm continually surprised at the growth there, and the highway system is amazing. There is a sea of rooftops, expanding out as the highway system does. Our son is building a house in Frisco--just beyond the reaches of the Dallas North Tollway, but that will expand into his area by 2006. Housing prices are incredible...a 3,400 sq foot house with wood floors, island kitchen with granite counters, stone backsplashes and tile floors, media room, fireplace, crown moldings etc, fenced, sprinklered and sodded yard is running about $230,000! He's about 30 minutes from his office in North Dallas. The same house in Tampa where we live would easily be $800,000. It makes it tempting.

I'm not familiar with Houston, although I'd always heard, living in Dallas, how ugly Houston was. :) Sibling rivalry. We had the opportunity to visit during Super Bowl this year, and did not find it so at all. My brother-in-law lives in the suburb of Kingwood, which is simply beautiful...trees, winding roads, nice sized lots--really lovely.

IT jobs though can be a problem everywhere, with outsourcing what it is. Our son has an MIS degree and worked in the IT department at Sprint. The entire IT department is being outsourced to South America. He was fortunate to find another IT job at the same salary through contacts from Sprint who had moved on. Whatever you do and wherever you go, in today's climate, I'd have that job in hand before leaving!

The Wright Amendment limits airlines to fly (and to sell tickets) from Dallas Love Field to only TX and the bordering states of NM, OK, AR and LA. There was a latter Shelby Amendment that adds KS, MS and AL (though Southwest doens't fly DAL-Kansas).

It only covers planes with over 56 seats, so you can buy a ticket on CO to go anywhere in the world via Houston, as you're flying a regional jet with <56 seats to IAH from DAL. It also doesn't cover FF award tickets, so you can fly DAL to anywhere SW flies by claiming miles.

There's a detailed article in the current issue (Oct '04) of Airways magazine.

I live in Houston, and my husband works in the IT field as well. Although he doesn't think Houston has a strong IT job market, Austin's isn't too much better either, even though Dell and others have offices there. We considered moving to Austin last year but changed our minds. We are transplants from the east coast as well, and my husband lived in Dallas before we got married. He too thinks Houston has a lot more culture. True, it's more humid, but heck, we go from AC-cooled home to AC-cooled car to AC-cooled office, for cryin' out loud! True also that Galveston isn't one of the prettier beaches, but it's a good enough for a beach that's less than 1 hr from us if we just want to walk along the shore or wade a little. Moody Gardens (in Galveston) is also a great place to take visitors.

Anyway, Falafel, my 2-cents' worth to you would be to go where you can get a good job, or are you able to transfer (within your current company) to either city?