As newbies to SF, staying more in the Union Sq area may be easier for you. A car wouldn't be needed, instead relying on walking, public transit etc. While Noe Valley isn't <i>that</i> far from the action, it does add an additional level to your day.

Our first trips found us in the downtown area. Just now, on our 4th trip in as many years, did we decided to stay out of the heart of the city [we stayed in a condo near the Castro]. We knew our way around and felt quite comfortable.

We did have a motorcycle to get around with and did so, but one of the joys of SF is the great public transit system. Consider not renting a car until you are ready to leave town. Another bonus of that is avoiding airport fees. Dollar doesn't charge one way drop off charges and has some great deals at times.

IF you do stay in Noe Valley, be aware that there are some major hills in that area and some rentals may require lots of treks up and or down hill. The same street can be level on 1 block and then POW! a huge hill.

3 day visitor passport $21 would be perfect for you:

http://www.sfmta.com/cms/mfares/passports.htm

Thanks again!

Dancing

Where specifically is your B&B in the Noe Valley? I can probably tell you if it is in a flat area or not. I'll be there on Wed & I'll do a "drive by" if I'm not 100% familiar with the location.

e-mail me at [email protected] if you don't want to communicate via Fodoors.

Stu Dudley

Stu, I haven't made any arrangements, but this apartment (gleaned from an earlier Fodors thread) caught my eye:

30th Street between Church and Dolores streets
Phone: 415-309-4909
Email: [email protected]
Website: stayinsf.googlepages.com; vrbo.com/191754

DB, as Stu knows, I lived for years on Sanchez between Day and 30th (a long block from where your're looking). Although it's a little farther from 24th Street (shops and restaurants)than might be ideal, it's a great neighborhood, no big hills on that block, and very close to public transportation.

I would forget the day-trip to San Diego, spend one less night in Manhattan Beach. I'd add that night to SF or to spend another night on the coast on your drive south.

>>30th Street between Church and Dolores streets<<

We had dinner there (actually, around the corner on Church) this past Sat. Perfectly flat and you can pick up the J-Church muni metro at the corner of Church & 30th. The J-Church will take you downtown. You can pick up the 24 Divisadero to take you to Pacific Heights & the Castro. There is a good produce store and nice coffee shop (our favorite) on Church & 30th and a meat market a half block north of the produce place. About 5-6 restaurants/pizza places within 3 blocks. There is a Noe Valley playground a block away on 30th & Sanchez where there are slides & other things for your 6 YO. I don't know if it is for SF residents only or not - check with your B&B owner if you are serious about it. Street parking is reasonable there (not on that specific block of 30th, however) - but watch out for the "residents only" sticker parking on work days during work hours and the weekly (may be every other week) "no parking" for street cleaning. Easy driving in that area. The J-Church runs down 30th - so there may be some noise. Many "historic" street cars take that route to the "storage barn" and they are fun to watch. The church on Church st a couple of blocks north was used in one of the Whoppie Goldburg movies. Many restaurants/coffee shops in that area have "outside" tables on the sidewalk.

Stu Dudley

<<<The church on Church st a couple of blocks north was used in one of the Whoppie Goldburg movies.>>>

St. Paul's - was the church in "Sister Act".

Dont miss seeing the California Academy of Science in SF. Its a beautiful museum and your kids will love seeing the different areas inside. Also, if you want to see alcatraz, i suggest you buy tickets online in advance. Last summer, We didnt think about doing this and when we showed up, their tickets were sold out for the entire week i was there. Also, i really enjoyed seeing Muir Woods, i thought it was beautiful and worth a day trip with a stop in Sausalito (another charming town across the bay). Whatever you decide to do, your kids will love it. California is a beautiful state and one of my favorites to visit :)

We're back and had a wonderful time! Thanks to all for your contributions. A brief trip report:

Stayed 4 nights in San Francisco at the "stayinsf" apartment described above, but 6-hour delay on flight out took away any chance of sightseeing on our arrival day.

Marvelously chilly in SF after leaving 100+ temps in DC.

Loved being in Noe Valley. Kids went to the neighborhood park/rec center every day. For breakfast each day I got croissants and a latte from the coffee shop on the corner, fruit from the produce stand across the street, and bacon and sausages from the butcher in the same block.

Waited too long to get Alcatraz tickets, sold out everywhere. But we certainly didn't lack for things to do. Did the first 12 miles or so of the 49 Mile Drive on the first day, stopping often along the way. Love the way the Bay suddenly comes into view as you turn a corner or top a hill.

Continued our rambling the next two days. Drove across the Golden Gate to Sausalito. Made it into the Japanese Tea Garden shortly before closing. Toured the ships in the Maritime Museum, road the cable car from Fisherman's Wharf to Chinatown and walked from there to Union Square. Waited in a 4-block line of vehicles to ride down Lombard Street, rendered worthwhile to see the guy in the dress running up the stairs.

We loved this city. We'll be back.

Next we drove from San Francisco to the Monterey Peninsula by way of Big Basin Redwoods State Park and the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk. Quite a contrast of sites and activities. Arrived on the late side at our charming little motel in Pacific Grove (Butterfly Grove Inn). Took a late night stroll on the nearby bluffs.

Next morning was a whale watching cruise leaving out of Moss Landing, back up the bay. Saw a blue whale (and several other blue whale spouts), several humpbacks, dolphins, sea lions and otters. Great fun--managed to avoid seasickness.

Second morning from Pacific Grove we went to the Monterey Aquarium--excellent. We have a very nice aquarium nearby (National in Baltimore) but was very impressed with this facility. Kids loved all of the touch pools.

Had lunch around 2:30 in Carmel (actually most of us had breakfast, at The Cottage, was excellent), then started down the PCH, stopping frequently. Watched the sunset from an overlook. Beautiful. Arrived after 9 p.m. in San Simeon, had to scramble (and drive down to Cambria) to get some pizza. The Best Western in San Simeon is right on the beach and has 3 firepits along the top of the bluff. Took another late stroll along the waterfront.

Made it to our 11 a.m. scheduled Hearst Castle tour. Had an enchanting tour guide who was very evocative of the lively history of the house (and who also chatted with us for a while when we ran into her later, she has been at the house for over 20 years). The tour has been shortened (and broken into alternative tours) due to budget cuts but really those 45 minutes was all our kids could manage, given the admonition not to touch anything. And then you are free to stroll about the gardens and pools, which is nice.

After the Castle went to the Elephant Seal rookery. I just expected to see them sunning but in addition to that there were two pairs of large males having dramatic confrontations--not sure if that was play among young males or a challenge to an old guy's dominance, but it was quite something to see.

Drove down the coast from San Simeon to our hotel in Oxnard (Residence Inn), with a fairly brief stop in Santa Barbara.

Slept in the next morning. Ate the buffet breakfast, kids took a dip in the pool. Then headed out. Stopped at Malibu Country Mart for lunch (kids took advantage of the play area), then arrived at our Santa Monica/Venice rental house.

Loved the rental house. One block from the beach--turn left to the zaniness of Venice Beach, right to the well-groomed relative peace of Santa Monica Beach. One block behind us was Main Street with lots of shops and restaurants.

Had six nights there. Spent two days at Disneyland/California Adventure and took a great afternoon/evening drive through Westwood/UCLA, Rodeo Drive, Sunset Blvd into Hollywood. Got to Griffith Park too late (closed) but compensation was we snaked through Hollywoodland up to where we could get fairly close to the Hollywood sign (although unlit) look down on the city from up there.

Otherwise this last leg was mostly a beachy vacation for us. My son took surfing lessons, we played on the beach, went swimming at the Annenberg Beach House, road the rides on the Santa Monica Pier, strolled and ate along the Third Street Promenade, just took in the crazies in Venice, watched the skateboarders and hoopsters (and played some hoops ourselves), rented bikes to ride up and down the beach.

All in all an excellent trip.

Another awful flight back where a 5-hour delay turned a late-night flight into an impromptu red-eye that took me a week to recover from.

Again, thanks for all of the help.

Nice report . . .sounds like you had a wonderful time.