Critique My Early-Stage CA Itinerary
 

Just made plane reservations flying into San Francisco on July 11 (arr. 10:30 a.m.) and out of LAX on July 25 (dep. 4:15). Party of five--me, wife, kids 11 and 6, au pair. Thinking about the following rough itinerary:

Five nights in San Francisco, giving us 4 full days plus arrival day to explore SF. Thinking of renting apartment in Noe Valley area.

Then on July 16, rent car, drive to Muir Woods in a.m., then to Monterrey/Carmel area. Spend two nights in that area, giving us one full day to see the sights.

July 18, drive to Santa Barbara, seeing San Simeon on the way. Spend night in Santa Barbara.

July 19, drive to Manhattan Beach by way of Venice Beach and Santa Monica Pier. Spend remaining six nights in apartment in Manhattan Beach.

Sounds like a nice trip. Personally I would spend a little longer on the drive from Monterey to Santa Barbara and explore that fantastic coast and visit some of the state parks (assuming they are still open)

Just a few thoughts/questions:

When you're in SF, will you be seeing all the sights in the city: Alcatraz, Coit Tower, Fisherman's Wharf, trolley rides, Ghiradelli Chocolate factory, etc? If you're going to be spending lots of time downtown you will want to stay downtown. Driving into SF is a nightmare (that's the good part) and parking is almost impossible to find. Between the traffic & the parking you will probably be happier staying in the city.

What is in Manhatten Beach? Are you there to visit relatives? See LA? Go the the beach? Don't sell Santa Barbara short: it has very pretty beaches, a nice zoo, shopping & dining, etc. It will be less hectic and less hot than LA; but with plenty to see & do. (They used to have a nice Museum of Natural History with a whale skeleton & everything...you may want to check that out if your kids are interested).

I grew up near San Simeon & Santa Barbara (smack in between them) and went to college in Long Beach, so I am familiar with almost everything on your agenda. That's why I have the question about Manhatten Beach - just wondering what you're expecting from it.

I agree with <i>emalloy</i> - everything should be open in the middle of July. The weather is very nice on the Central Coast (if La Nina isn't in town). The mornings are cool and a little foggy, but it clears up in the afternoon and is nice & warm.

Noe Valley is a neighborhood in the city (I'm guessing halfapair doesn't know that). I think it's a great area for a family to stay (I used to live there). If you have a car, there are places that it is easier to get to by car than by public transportation, but public transportation is readily available.

As for driving, yes, parking is expensive, but it certainly isn't hard to find, and driving in San Francisco (which I do every day) is much much easier than in many other big cities.

You should take your "side trip" to Muir Woods while you're in San Francisco -- Muir Woods is north of SF, while Monterey is south, so doing Muir Woods the same day as you drive to Monterey doesn't really make sense. Actually, since you're driving south, you could skip Muir Woods altogether and see redwoods somewhere south of SF -- Big Basin, Henry Cowell, for examples.

I'd want a full day IN Monterey/Carmel/Pacific Grove, then another day driving down the coast, but maybe not as far as Santa Barbara -- there are many places to stop for views, hiking, poking around, eating. Maybe only go as far as Cambria/Morro Bay/Pismo Beach and stay the night.

Next day, make your way to San Simeon and Santa Barbara and then to LA.

Oh, and as far as the parks go, emalloy was referring to the fact that the state is "economically challenged" and there is a list of state parks slated for closure next year.

Thanks for the suggestions.

halfapair, I was thinking of Manhattan Beach for beach access and as a base for LA sightseeing. Stayed in Hermosa Beach several years ago (without the kids) and found it to be reasonably central.

sf7307, I like the idea of skipping Muir Woods and working a redwoods stop in on the drive south, thanks. That would also facilitate me shifting one night from Monterrey to further down the coast.

What would I like to have a car for while in SF? I'm certainly open to renting a car the entire time, or for a couple of days before I leave SF.

I agree with skipping Muir Woods in favor of Henry Cowell or Big Basin state parks. I prefer to them to Muir Woods and they are on your way to Monterey. These are all fairly major parks in our state park system, so I don't think they are in danger of closing. Smaller parks in the area like Butano and Portola, yes, but not Henry Cowell and Big Basin.

You also might want to stop in Santa Cruz on your way to Monterey. The beach and the Boardwalk there is a lot of fun - esspecially with the kids.

You could leave SF in the morning, drive to Henry Cowell, see the park, then spend the afternoon in Santa Cruz. The drive to Monterey is only about 45 minutes from Santa Cruz.

I also think that taking a day from SF and adding it to your drive down the coast is a good idea. There is a lot to see between Monterey and Santa Barbara. Of course 4 days in SF is great, but I think you can do the city justice in 3. I would probably choose Pismo Beach for an overnight between Monterey and SB - there is a good beach there for the kids to play (and adults too :) )

<<<What would I like to have a car for while in SF? I'm certainly open to renting a car the entire time, or for a couple of days before I leave SF>>>

You can get everywhere in the city by public transportation, but some less "urban" areas are just easier to get to and around by car - for example, Golden Gate Park, Land's End, the Cliff House, Twin Peaks, doing the 49-mile drive, the Great Highway, Marina Green/Crissy Field, the Golden Gate Bridge. It depends on what you plan to do and see and do while you're here. For example, if you're going to spend a day in the Chinatown/NorthBeach/Fisherman's Wharf/Alcatraz area, you will not need or want a car.

I wouldn't take a night from Monterey if you can avoid it - keep 2 nights there so that you have a full day to sightsee in Monterey.

I agree!

Okay, now thinking:

Four nights in San Francisco, giving us 3 full days plus arrival day to explore SF. Thinking of renting apartment in Noe Valley area.

Then on July 15, rent car, drive to Big Basin in a.m., then to Santa Cruz Boardwalk in the evening, then on to hotel in Monterrey. Spend two nights in Monterrey, giving us one full day to see the sights.

July 17, drive to somewhere between Monterrey and Santa Barbara and spend the night.

First query, should I then still spend a night in Santa Barbara, or press on through to LA on July 18?

July 18 or 19, drive to Manhattan Beach. Spend remaining six nights in apartment in Manhattan Beach as a base for visiting LA sights.

Second query, should I try to get in a day trip to San Diego?

If you have 6 days in LA, yes, I would try to get in a day trip to San Diego -- but know that it's a 2-hr drive each way when there is NO TRAFFIC (I recently made the round-trip; it took 3-3/4 hours going south, less than 2 hours going north).

Since you will have an apartment in MB, you can leave the San Diego question completely open -- if you feel like going you can, because you'll have a car and you won't need accommodations.

I would still spend a night in SB rather than go all the way to LA on the 18th. SB is a nice place.

And I think that a day trip to SD would be great, and you definitely can play it by ear to see what you feel like doing once you are in LA. That's how I plan our vacations when we have a home base - have a bunch of options and then decide what we feel like doing day to day.

Thanks very much for all of your input!

Where do you live?? Are you a doctor, or do you live in Maryland? If you will be flying in from far away - you may encounter jet lag and the first day in SF - & perhaps even the second day might not be real productive. I think only 3 full days in San Francisco is cutting it short - especially with a 6 YO in tow who might not be able to "pound away" all day. When we travel elsewhere, I always add a day to the first destination so I can get settled, obtain information, figure out the transit system, discover what I forgot to pack, purchase sweatshirts because if is cold in SF, etc.

We just returned from an overnight on the Big Sur coast - this was about our 30th trip there. It never gets old. We had fantastic weather - which you might not have in July, but even with fog there is plenty to do. I would suggest that you not stay in Monterey - try Pacific Grove or Carmel which we think are much more enjoyable than Monterey (spelled with only 1 r). If you visit Santa Cruz on the way, I would definitely spend 2 nights in Pacific Grove/Monterey and then 1 night in San Simeon to facilitate a visit to Hearst castlle. You will be staying in "cities" - so I think San Simeon would be a nice break and perhaps a better choice that Santa Barbara - which is another (large) city. Enjoy the Big Sur coast at a leisurely pace & have lunch at Nepenthe - but get to Nepenthe early to avoid crowds - around 11:15 (lunch starts at 11:30).

I agree to not "cast in concrete" a day-trip to San Diego from Manhatten Beach until you get to Manhatten Beach. I bet once you "visit" the LA freeways and all the traffic & unsightly stuff along the freeway, that you won't welcome a 3-4 hr one-way trip (perhaps 6-7 hrs RT). Especially after spending time on the Big Sur coast. San Francisco and LA are completly different in "look & feel". IMO, San Diego is not as different from LA as SF is - so why spend all that time on the freeway with 5 people in a car (incl a 6YO) just to visit some place that is only slightly different than LA.

I grew up in LA, worked in Carlsbad (close to San Diego), and have lived in the SF Bay Area for the last 36 years (Noe Valley in SF for 7 years).

Here are my ideas for San Francisco
http://www.fodors.com/community/unit...mendations.cfm

Stu Dudley

Thank you, much to think about. I'm a lawyer and work in the Maryland (MD)DC suburbs. Acknowledge the travel day limitations, but generally westbound is much better for jetlag than eastbound (our return arrives at midnight--ouch!). I'm pretty familiar with LA, and have made the drive to and from San Diego, but have not been further north of that since I was a kid.

One problem -- which you really can't do much about -- is the fog/weather along the coast. Santa Cruz, Carmel, Big Sur, etc could all be fogged in, or just morning haze, or crystal clear. But some fog is most likely. Summer is the foggy/cool time on the coast.

oops - didn't mean to click submit. Because of the weather issues, I might try to spend an additional day on the coast so you'll have more 'afternoon time' when the sun is more likely to break through.

As newbies to SF, staying more in the Union Sq area may be easier for you. A car wouldn't be needed, instead relying on walking, public transit etc. While Noe Valley isn't <i>that</i> far from the action, it does add an additional level to your day.

Our first trips found us in the downtown area. Just now, on our 4th trip in as many years, did we decided to stay out of the heart of the city [we stayed in a condo near the Castro]. We knew our way around and felt quite comfortable.

We did have a motorcycle to get around with and did so, but one of the joys of SF is the great public transit system. Consider not renting a car until you are ready to leave town. Another bonus of that is avoiding airport fees. Dollar doesn't charge one way drop off charges and has some great deals at times.

IF you do stay in Noe Valley, be aware that there are some major hills in that area and some rentals may require lots of treks up and or down hill. The same street can be level on 1 block and then POW! a huge hill.

3 day visitor passport $21 would be perfect for you:

http://www.sfmta.com/cms/mfares/passports.htm

Thanks again!

Dancing

Where specifically is your B&B in the Noe Valley? I can probably tell you if it is in a flat area or not. I'll be there on Wed & I'll do a "drive by" if I'm not 100% familiar with the location.

e-mail me at [email protected] if you don't want to communicate via Fodoors.

Stu Dudley

Stu, I haven't made any arrangements, but this apartment (gleaned from an earlier Fodors thread) caught my eye:

30th Street between Church and Dolores streets
Phone: 415-309-4909
Email: [email protected]
Website: stayinsf.googlepages.com; vrbo.com/191754

DB, as Stu knows, I lived for years on Sanchez between Day and 30th (a long block from where your're looking). Although it's a little farther from 24th Street (shops and restaurants)than might be ideal, it's a great neighborhood, no big hills on that block, and very close to public transportation.

I would forget the day-trip to San Diego, spend one less night in Manhattan Beach. I'd add that night to SF or to spend another night on the coast on your drive south.

>>30th Street between Church and Dolores streets<<

We had dinner there (actually, around the corner on Church) this past Sat. Perfectly flat and you can pick up the J-Church muni metro at the corner of Church & 30th. The J-Church will take you downtown. You can pick up the 24 Divisadero to take you to Pacific Heights & the Castro. There is a good produce store and nice coffee shop (our favorite) on Church & 30th and a meat market a half block north of the produce place. About 5-6 restaurants/pizza places within 3 blocks. There is a Noe Valley playground a block away on 30th & Sanchez where there are slides & other things for your 6 YO. I don't know if it is for SF residents only or not - check with your B&B owner if you are serious about it. Street parking is reasonable there (not on that specific block of 30th, however) - but watch out for the "residents only" sticker parking on work days during work hours and the weekly (may be every other week) "no parking" for street cleaning. Easy driving in that area. The J-Church runs down 30th - so there may be some noise. Many "historic" street cars take that route to the "storage barn" and they are fun to watch. The church on Church st a couple of blocks north was used in one of the Whoppie Goldburg movies. Many restaurants/coffee shops in that area have "outside" tables on the sidewalk.

Stu Dudley

<<<The church on Church st a couple of blocks north was used in one of the Whoppie Goldburg movies.>>>

St. Paul's - was the church in "Sister Act".

Dont miss seeing the California Academy of Science in SF. Its a beautiful museum and your kids will love seeing the different areas inside. Also, if you want to see alcatraz, i suggest you buy tickets online in advance. Last summer, We didnt think about doing this and when we showed up, their tickets were sold out for the entire week i was there. Also, i really enjoyed seeing Muir Woods, i thought it was beautiful and worth a day trip with a stop in Sausalito (another charming town across the bay). Whatever you decide to do, your kids will love it. California is a beautiful state and one of my favorites to visit :)

We're back and had a wonderful time! Thanks to all for your contributions. A brief trip report:

Stayed 4 nights in San Francisco at the "stayinsf" apartment described above, but 6-hour delay on flight out took away any chance of sightseeing on our arrival day.

Marvelously chilly in SF after leaving 100+ temps in DC.

Loved being in Noe Valley. Kids went to the neighborhood park/rec center every day. For breakfast each day I got croissants and a latte from the coffee shop on the corner, fruit from the produce stand across the street, and bacon and sausages from the butcher in the same block.

Waited too long to get Alcatraz tickets, sold out everywhere. But we certainly didn't lack for things to do. Did the first 12 miles or so of the 49 Mile Drive on the first day, stopping often along the way. Love the way the Bay suddenly comes into view as you turn a corner or top a hill.

Continued our rambling the next two days. Drove across the Golden Gate to Sausalito. Made it into the Japanese Tea Garden shortly before closing. Toured the ships in the Maritime Museum, road the cable car from Fisherman's Wharf to Chinatown and walked from there to Union Square. Waited in a 4-block line of vehicles to ride down Lombard Street, rendered worthwhile to see the guy in the dress running up the stairs.

We loved this city. We'll be back.

Next we drove from San Francisco to the Monterey Peninsula by way of Big Basin Redwoods State Park and the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk. Quite a contrast of sites and activities. Arrived on the late side at our charming little motel in Pacific Grove (Butterfly Grove Inn). Took a late night stroll on the nearby bluffs.

Next morning was a whale watching cruise leaving out of Moss Landing, back up the bay. Saw a blue whale (and several other blue whale spouts), several humpbacks, dolphins, sea lions and otters. Great fun--managed to avoid seasickness.

Second morning from Pacific Grove we went to the Monterey Aquarium--excellent. We have a very nice aquarium nearby (National in Baltimore) but was very impressed with this facility. Kids loved all of the touch pools.

Had lunch around 2:30 in Carmel (actually most of us had breakfast, at The Cottage, was excellent), then started down the PCH, stopping frequently. Watched the sunset from an overlook. Beautiful. Arrived after 9 p.m. in San Simeon, had to scramble (and drive down to Cambria) to get some pizza. The Best Western in San Simeon is right on the beach and has 3 firepits along the top of the bluff. Took another late stroll along the waterfront.

Made it to our 11 a.m. scheduled Hearst Castle tour. Had an enchanting tour guide who was very evocative of the lively history of the house (and who also chatted with us for a while when we ran into her later, she has been at the house for over 20 years). The tour has been shortened (and broken into alternative tours) due to budget cuts but really those 45 minutes was all our kids could manage, given the admonition not to touch anything. And then you are free to stroll about the gardens and pools, which is nice.

After the Castle went to the Elephant Seal rookery. I just expected to see them sunning but in addition to that there were two pairs of large males having dramatic confrontations--not sure if that was play among young males or a challenge to an old guy's dominance, but it was quite something to see.

Drove down the coast from San Simeon to our hotel in Oxnard (Residence Inn), with a fairly brief stop in Santa Barbara.

Slept in the next morning. Ate the buffet breakfast, kids took a dip in the pool. Then headed out. Stopped at Malibu Country Mart for lunch (kids took advantage of the play area), then arrived at our Santa Monica/Venice rental house.

Loved the rental house. One block from the beach--turn left to the zaniness of Venice Beach, right to the well-groomed relative peace of Santa Monica Beach. One block behind us was Main Street with lots of shops and restaurants.

Had six nights there. Spent two days at Disneyland/California Adventure and took a great afternoon/evening drive through Westwood/UCLA, Rodeo Drive, Sunset Blvd into Hollywood. Got to Griffith Park too late (closed) but compensation was we snaked through Hollywoodland up to where we could get fairly close to the Hollywood sign (although unlit) look down on the city from up there.

Otherwise this last leg was mostly a beachy vacation for us. My son took surfing lessons, we played on the beach, went swimming at the Annenberg Beach House, road the rides on the Santa Monica Pier, strolled and ate along the Third Street Promenade, just took in the crazies in Venice, watched the skateboarders and hoopsters (and played some hoops ourselves), rented bikes to ride up and down the beach.

All in all an excellent trip.

Another awful flight back where a 5-hour delay turned a late-night flight into an impromptu red-eye that took me a week to recover from.

Again, thanks for all of the help.

Nice report . . .sounds like you had a wonderful time.