Constructive Criticism?
 

HI--maybe I am just feeling cranky today but it seems that lately both here and on the Europe board, that there are *lots* of requests that sound like--"We have decided to go to----. Now would you please plan our entire trip." I am well aware that I can just ignore these posts, but I must comment. It is a really nice and considerate gesture to those who participate in this forum, when the people who are making a request, show that they have put at least a modicum of effort into their own trip before posting a query....

I'm sure most would put a modicum of effort in if they could find one.

I tend to just ignore those threads, as well as the ones on the other extreme:

"I've booked 6 countries, 12 cities, 47 castles, and 68 museums in 7 days, my travelling partner says we can only do 67 museums, please HELP"

One of my faves is:

""We are going to New York City the first weekend in December and can't find a cheap room! Last summer we got the Hilton Times Square for $35 and now we can't get that price!! Why is priceline now trying to rip people off?

What should we see and do in NYC?""

GoT, only surpassed by "is there anything to do in NYC?" To which I an always tempted to reply "no"!

How about, "Where can I find a good place to eat in _______?" Fill in the blank with any large city.

How do I get an upgraded room?

How many (fill in the currency) should I buy (at some really unfavorable rate) in the US before travel to (choice of country)?
M

I don't mind the restaurant recommendation requests, but I am so on board with you BeachBoi, I loathe the "how do I get an upgrade" nonsense. I just want to say, "Darling, if you want an upgrade then you should work hard, save your $ and pay for an upgrade like the rest of us..." I caa't stand it when people expect something for nothing, or those that lie and say "It's my anniversary, or we just got married, or it's my birthday just to get a frebbie".

(But my Momma didn't raise me to say that, lol, shhhhhhhhhhhhh, don't tell her I said it here.)

:S-

Funny but with a modicum of effort, I am often happily upgraded by the front desk when the establishment is not at full capacity.

Tiff, I SO agree with you! There's nothing wrong with enjoying an upgrade if it's offered to you, or mentioning your birthday if it is indeed your birthday, but when people post and ask for hints to "guarantee" they'll get an upgrade at the Four Seasons or the Grand Wailea .... If a particular level of room is that important to your vacation, PAY for it! (I do ... :-) )

Tiff/BB.....I think a lot of times it's not the kill, but the chase.

I like those questions because it gives me the chance to pass on reassurance and my favorite advice... you don't have to plan to excruciating detail to take a trip to Europe.

You need a passport, money, plane ticket. A packed suitcase and hotel reservation for the first city rounds out the plan. Not everyone enjoys planning or finds the need for intricate itineraries.

My personal favorite:

"What's the weather like (several months from now) in (world-famous city)?

How do otherwise intelligent people online expect that amateurs could predict the weather any more accurately than professionals - who miss frequently?

I too get a kick out of the weather questions and the ubiquitous answers which are equally usless because they mainly come from someone who has visited the area only on vacation as in "I was in ______ last April and it rained every day".

In all fairness Feh, If you've never been to say, Europe, you have no experience to draw on and if you're new to Fodors, you have no idea how to look up the weather or if the ballpark is 40degrees or 60 degrees. And that depends on what you'll pack.

My favorite are the 'what do I wear to fit in' questions and the 'is the subway safe' questions. Now I can understand if you are asking such questions about say, Kandahar, but about San Fransisco? (yes I know San Fransisco has no subway, but you get my point)

All new persons with questions unworthy of the famed Fodor's posters should be banned.

Or at least made fun of on a regulars' thread, right?

My hotel room had some little towels, smaller than a hand towel. What are they for? Cleaning shoes?

How long does it take to drive from San Francisco to Reno in a snow storm?

Most of the examples given would be just as bad if asked face-to-face and have nothing to do whether it was on a forum or if the person was a newbie to the forum.

Subject: Urgent help

"I called Southwest to find when June 2006 reservations can be made, but they don't know. Can anyone here help me???"

cd, I'm not going to belabor the point, but I will go ahead and disagree with this statement you made:

"...if you're new to Fodors, you have no idea how to look up the weather or if the ballpark is 40degrees or 60 degrees."

I'm not going to research your posts to see if you have asked a question of a similar characteristic ('tho I have a sneaking feeling this is the reason). Let's just end it here.

<b>cd</b>,

so how is it that somehow the poster found Fodor's, was able to register and post the weather question, but yet had no idea how to find <b>www.weather.com</b>? Little difficult to believe, don't you think?

Hi 2tired--I am sorry if my post misled you in some way. My original point was not that some questions are &quot;worthy&quot; and some are not...it was that some people write in having made zero effort on behalf of their own trip and rather than seeking advice, they seem to want someone else to do all the work for them.

okay, I see how you'd feel annoyed, but there are many people on this board who seem to want to jump in and tell all, a to zed. You don't even need to post. I've seen many vague questions go unanswered, and for every haven't a clue questioner there is an opposite but equally eager tell-all. They'll find each other.

Your post did not make fun of them, but a few replies did. I say we only make fun of the long-standing posters and leave the poor chicks alone. (I count myself as neither, but doff my hat as a target)

socialworker, I understand what you are saying, but I do think we need to realize that a lot of people don't come here as often as some of us do (myself included). I agree it can be silly to ask strangers for recommendations when you give no background info. But I'll bet most people have more of a 'clue' than some of you are giving them credit for. I think it's pushing it to say that someone came here with no information and is just going to blindly follow whatever advice they receive here. And I agree with 2tired - don't just respond to the questions that drive you crazy - that'll teach 'em :)

And I don't think anyone is asking people to predict weather. But I can be pretty accurate in telling someone that July in Moab is probably gonna be really, really HOT. If you visit the Olympic Pennisula in the winter, expect rain. Etc.

There seems to be an undercurrent here that believes criticism of a place is bad, but it's OK to poke fun (both gently, and not so-kindly) at someone who asks a question deemed &quot;unproper&quot;. I've been here long enough to predict some of the replies people are most likely to receive based on how they word their question. Sometimes I try to give a lot of info when I post a question in anticipation of the &quot;post police&quot;, but then that sometimes creates another problem, and sometimes I feel like I just can't win! But, thankfully, it's the minority. I've received great advice here and enjoy reading other's thoughts on their travels.

Just tried the 330 day upgrade game on DAL. Say when?
M

The posts that I find most perplexing are those that raise questions of pure fact. If you need to know passport or visa requirements, or are unsure of regulations for traveling with minor children, or need to know the price of a hotel parking garage, why would you ask anonymous people on an internet forum? Wouldn't you want to go directly to the source? I really get concerned when people take the word of strangers who may be mistaken (or even deliberately misleading) on these matters.

And let's face it, anyone who can find his way to fodors.com can also google. I'm guessing that these days anyone capable of turning on a computer knows how to google.

Completely agreed, Judy24. Why ask strangers for something that can be found directly. It's baffling.

The other day, somebody asked something about a hotel, but... didn't want to call the 800# for the hotel...d-i-r-e-c-t-l-y???

These are the people who throw litter out their car windows. These are the people who wait until the grocery store checker announces their purchase total to find their checkbook, CC, ATM card, whatever. These are the people who sling across 4 lanes on a packed freeway to exit in 100 feet at 60 mph. These are the C students in school who copied my homework, or peeked at my exam forms.

While we're on that subject, what about the people who ask the really involved legal questions, like what happens if you leave the country with a wrong name in your passport? Or the medical questions like what activities to do when 8 months pregnant or allergic to certain medications? There are some questions that are really left to the experts -- like the passport office or a doctor for example.

I think it's desheartening to read these comments about some posters who are new to this forum. Fodorites complain about trolls, but they also complain about people who don't ask questions properly or do enough research first, apparently. There's a thread where a Fodor's ee is asking for input on how to change the talk forum. Perhaps the most experienced Fodorites could create an FAQ about how to post questions so nobody has to waste their valuable time with people who genuinely have vague questions.

CheBird, all of us are not impatient and remember when we were first here and didn't know for an example, I asked what does LOL mean.
There are no dumb questions if asked in good faith, only nasty responses that drive newcomers away.
This is not a school, a club, or run by antone except fodors.
peace, kindness and hope for less trolls.
mimi

Feh and AAFrequent Flyer:
Yes, I was new to this forum about 5 yrs ago and asked a question about weather. It was someone on this board that directed me to http://www.worldweather.org/ Which is a wonderful site as it gives weather all over the world,in any city,for any month of the year. I have never minded sharing that with someone as it has been so helpful to me.
I agree, some questions are just lazy, and I hope I always have the discernment to tell.

These are the threads I love on this site because thay make me laugh and nod in agreement .You all get 10 out of 10 for this . In my view there ought to be a ground rule which stipulates that in asking for advice about cities / hotels you must set out in 25 words or less - AT THE START - what is important to you when travelling ,your likes ,dislikes and budget so like minded people can respond with pertinent advice .

also whats up with the plethora of questions about Hawai?

How about this post?

&lt;Where did they go?? Where did they go??

The bugs went away!

Hey! They went away!!

Now it is &quot;Come to a place with a Low-fare Promise&quot;

Looks like flatland with some mountains in the background.

Wyoming? Idaho? Definitely mountains out west.

Yes, definitely out west as I see no bugs.&gt;

Huh?

Ya' know...it's not like THIS is such an uncommon discussion on Fodor's either!

I think &quot;regulars&quot; need to be careful about scorn for those who post questions that you think the OP should go elsewhere for. There's a repeated type of response, reflecting the attitudes of a number of people above, that says &quot;what are you asking us that for, when you should a)do some homework first, b) ask an expert, or c) answer it yourself.&quot;

As a frequent lurker and poster, I've often thought that a given question is lazy or dumb. But let me remind you of the comment of a friend who waited tables for quite a long time: &quot;Remember that this isn't the same people who have eaten the same food over and over for weeks and months; this is a new customer who's never eaten here before.&quot;

I think a gentle explanation that, for example, we can't help you because your question is a little too broad or vague may be justified. But the rebuking responses telling off people, say, for not asking an airline or a doctor or the INS directly is unnecessarily hostile and off-putting -- why would the newbie ever come back?

So often, the collective mixed message is: &quot;we're the experts and this question is a waste of our time, but we're not the experts so you shouldn't be asking us that.&quot;

Give a few newbies credit for knowing other ways to get answers to their questions but wanting what is available here -- some relevant personal experiences, some suggestions, and sometimes homework here before they even start the more detailed work to deal with their question. It's happened to me that I post a question having taken my own research as far as I could only to have several condescending responses with the first-line links to the obvious places I've already checked.

For many, we/you are like their neighbors, and they're saying, &quot;what's your take on...&quot; or &quot;do you know whether...&quot; or &quot;do you happen to have any idea how I would...&quot;

If a neighbor said, &quot;find it yourself, that's a dumb question,&quot; we wouldn't probably have much to do with that neighbor again.

Incognito: That mysterious &quot;bugs&quot; post was a followup to one about a Fodors popup and that featured flying birds that looked like bugs to the original poster.

artman: Hawaii seems to be a popular destination for folks who otherwise don't travel a lot or are going on a Very Important Trip (honeymoon etc.) so they're more concerned than usual with working out every little detail perfectly.

Cassandra: I agree that we all should be polite and patient, but really there's no reason to post questions like &quot;Should I fly when I'm 8 months pregnant&quot; or &quot;What time does the Holocaust museum close?&quot; There are obviously better sources for this information.

One other highly-criticized habit that I haven't noticed on this thread is the &quot;Worth it&quot; question: Is a side trip to Niagara Falls worth it? Is the London Pass worth it?

Anonymous: you kind of make my point -- I can easily imagine someone asking a neighbor &quot;do they let people 8 months pregnant fly?&quot; or a friend just back from DC, &quot;do you know when the Holocaust Museum closes?&quot; The neighbor might say, &quot;I don't know but I don't think you can fly at 8 months -- what did the doctor say?&quot; or the
neighbor might say, &quot;I think they kicked us out at 5, but you'd better check, that was in the winter.&quot;

Still seems to me that posting disapproval of the question does no one much good.

Mimi: Amen.

Peter