The blue waters of Lake Michigan vs the muddy Mississippi??? I'm sorry, but my vote goes to Chicago. We were surprised on our first visit to find how clean a city it is. Navy Pier is a blast. The list of attractions for the older children is well documented above. I might also add the Imax Theater on Navy Pier, FAO Schwartz, FAO Schweetz, The Lego Store. Depending when you're heading out, there's the annual Halloween Festival beginning mid-October. There's also a Six Flags nearby.<BR><BR>Have fun wherever you decide

Chicago is one of our favorite places to take our 2 children. The Aquarium is an absolute favorite after multiple visits. Stay downtown - we like the Embassy Suites for the space, breakfasts and pool. You can walk all over and never feel unsafe.

We love St. Louis. The Arch and the City Museum are a must. The Imax theater and the Planetarium are really fun. The Zoo is a day event. My kids love it. I understand they just added a whole new section to it. Grants Farm is a wonderful attraction for young kids.

St. Louis!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>Chicago is dirty and full of homeless people. Where do they all go when it gets cold?

St. Louis?! Are you joking?! It's almost unfortunate the Arch is in St. Louis because I can't think of any other reason to visit.

It looks like Chicago has become the midwest version of San Francisco. Dirty, cold and full of homeless people. Are all the cities that were once great going down the tubes? (San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, Seattle). It really is a shame. I guess people have realized that many places are overrated and that in these times, it's important to think about our families. Lana, don't hurt your family by taking them to Chicago. Maybe if they clean it up, it will be better one day. <BR><BR>P.S. Are Willie Brown and Richard Daley in on this together? It's sad to see what's happened to some great cities.

'Don't hurt your children by taking them to Chicago'? I can't belive you said that. Chicago is an amazing city! I tood my son there when he was 5 and we had a blast. It is amazingly clean considering it's a huge city. Sure there's a lot of traffic but there is also a great public transportation system. The downtown area is wonderful and there's so much for families to do. I would suggest though, that you take a trip in summer so that you'll be able to take advantage of the INCREDIBLE beaches! I didn't know that Lake Michigan could be so clean and clear. I can't say enough about this city. I hope you have a good trip - wherever you end up.

I can't believe someone says Chicago has gone downhill. I'm no Mayor Daley fan, but that just is not factual. I was there. The 60's and 70's saw much of the real Chicago deteriorate. The last 10 years have seen more re-building, re-habbing, gentrifying and extreme improvement in nearly every neighborhood and precinct. The tourist part is so very small in comparison to all of Chicago proper. Regardless, the homeless, crime, and grime are all tremendously better than 20 years ago. <BR><BR>As a tourist, the only issue you may find fault with is the traffic all over, and the parking in particular for most of the areas you would attend. Access traffic and commutes are the worst I've ever see. And much of what Chicago has to offer is NOT public transportation friendly- and that includes tons of great stuff that is west or south.

Do you have to even ask? Chicago.

I try to respect other's opinions, but I have to say, this post has floored me more than any other post I've read on these boards. St. Louis over Chicago?? You have to be kidding me! Chicago is beautiful, clean, can't imagine anyone thinking it's dirty. Did you vacation in the projects?? So much to do and the people are very friendly.

Lana, I live in Chicago and am raising my kids there. There is a lot to do and you won't be disappointed, BUT, navigating traffic, etc., with four kids and two strollers is going to give you a headache. It is also quite expensive.<BR><BR>St. Louis has a lot for the little ones (my kids loved the City Museum and zoo) and it is much easier to get around in with a car. I would suggest taking this trip to St. Louis, and waiting a few years for Chicago.

Forgot to add that St. Louis figures to be about 10 degrees warmer than Chicago in mid-fall. It makes a big difference!

St.louis

No contest, Chicago. The majority of people who are picking St. Louis must have St. Louis ties. Its like comparing Elvis to an Elvis impersonator.

I travelled to St. Louis a couple of years ago to see a Bruce Springsteen concert. Even on a sunny, blue sky day, it was probably the least appealing large city I've ever been to. I found Indianpolis to be much more enjoyable. Go Chicago. This is so obvious I can't believe were even talking about it.<BR>

St. Louis.

topping

Chicago for sure! The city has so much to offer, culture (and the person who said no culture in that city has to be kidding), great food, shopping and friendly people esp. for a city of its size! For the comment about the number of homeless people, it is a sad fact that there are homeless people in almost ever major large US city. <BR>I think Chicago is a very clean, fun and one of the best cities in the US and if not the world for sure.<BR>St. Louis, nice I guess, but you can go there another time....

I live in St. Louis, but have been to CHI maybe 30 times in my life, once for several weeks. My friends live in CHI. If you want a &quot;downtown&quot; nightlife vacation, go to Chicago. If you don't mind driving a bit and want more of a family-uncrowded vacation, go to STL. <BR><BR>Both have a zoo, sports, restaurants, shopping, etc. Everytime I go to CHI, it's STL * 10 for me.. same crap, but bigger and more of it. <BR><BR>The reality: both cities are comparable. But St. Louis is less hurried and rushed, without the crazy taxi drivers, the noise and night, and high crime rates. Yes, with more people comes more crime.

Chicago is highly reccomended! Natual History Museum Science &amp; industry Museum- Something for all ages. Two zoos, Brookfield &amp; lincoln park- Sears Tower-John Hancock- The art Insitute all located close together. Chicago is my pick!

Alex, I was buying most of what you were saying until you got to the end.<BR><BR>St. Louis has a MUCH higher violent crime rate than Chicago. STL has been in the top 7 in the US in this category for many years running.<BR>STL has a much higher poverty level than Chicago in the metro area...and THAT'S where your crime comes from.<BR><BR>As for the cities being comparable, yes they're both cities. But comparable? Not too.<BR>Chicago is a world class city with all the amenities and some very unique attributes, while STL is a region-class city which attracts relatively few international and coastal tourists.

St. Louis! Better bars, restaurants, museums, easier to get around, lower crime, better weather!

http://www.movingvan.com/tools/CrimeTool.cfm<BR><BR>This is a good site to compare the cities and Yes, St. Louis has better stats when it comes to crime.

U.S. Department of Justice <BR>Bureau of Justice Statistics <BR><BR>http://149.101.22.40/dataonline/Search/Crime/Local/RunCrimeTrendsInOneVar.cfm<BR><BR>CHICAGO crimes: <BR>1997: 256,413<BR>1998: 249,302 <BR>1999: 227,529 <BR><BR>http://149.101.22.40/dataonline/Search/Crime/Local/RunCrimeTrendsInOneVar.cfm<BR><BR>St. Louis crimes:<BR>1997: 51,214<BR>1998: 51,459 <BR>1999: 47,711<BR><BR>Now, I don't know if you voted for Al Gore, but even his lawyers' recounting the above stats would not refute the fact that Chicago, while more populous than STL, has nearly TWICE--T W I C E-- the amount of crime as STL. I ran the totals of Kansas City and STL together, and Chicago STILL came out ahead... <BR><BR>Sources: FBI, Uniform Crime Reports as prepared by the National Archive of Criminal Justice Data <BR><BR>Lastly, I have been in STL for over 30 years and never been robbed. I have been in Chicago maybe 40 times at the most and had 2 robbery attempts just walking to the Marriot Residence Inn once and on MI Ave. another time. <BR><BR>If I had a family I wanted to take on vacation, not only would I not VISIT Chicago.. I would even LIVE there or near there... just my opinion.

Well DUH, Alex.<BR>Those are crude stats, not ratios.<BR><BR>Would you like to assert that Gary IN and E St Louis are LESS dangerous than Chicago because they have fewer murders, etc?<BR><BR>You never took statistics 101.<BR><BR>The national crime rankings are PER CAPITA.<BR><BR>Divide those Chicago numbers by 8.1 (the difference between the populations of the two cities is a factor of 8.1)...and youll find Chicago has a MUCH LOWER crime rate.

We can both manipulate #s, but CHI does not have twice STL's population while having twice the crime. <BR><BR>I hope no one in CHI ever has crime, or STL, but it does not change the fact of the #s. E STL is a bad scene, yes, but I hope you realize it's in IL, not STL.. if so, great. <BR><BR>Every time I travel on business to CHI, my ultimate goal is to get out of there. It truly is nothing special in my opinion, despite being a great city. <BR><BR>I guess my truest answer to the original question would be: &quot;NEITHER.&quot; <BR><BR>

Hey guys!!! The link a few posts above show the % of crime. Chicago is higher!

&quot;.....but CHI does not have twice STL's population while having twice the crime&quot;.<BR><BR>Correct.<BR>CHI had a 2000 census of 2,896,000<BR>STL was 348,000.<BR><BR>Chicago is EIGHT times the size of STL.<BR>And the crime stats you cited show CHI has 4.7 times more crime.<BR><BR>Thus STL has relatively MORE crime than CHI.<BR>That was my point.<BR><BR>

&quot;Duh&quot; is right.

My choice would easily be St. Louis. There is so much to do and it is a very friendly city.

The truth is both cities are comparable. I think the restaurant edge goes to St. Louis. I once talked Bob Probert and he agreed STL has the best restaurants of any city to which he's travelled. Gretzky was quoted saying that as well, even when he played for LA.. I am not joking that STL has some of the best restaurants in the entire country. CHI does as well, but the athletes, at least the ones I talk to, look forward to STL just because of the food. <BR><BR>It has a FREE zoo, which is nice, Art Museum, etc... <BR><BR>Chicago= more noise, pollution, more crime.

Compare the number of highly rated restaurants in STL vs CHI in Zagat's.<BR>Compare the sheer number of ethnic restaurants in these two cities.<BR>Survey magazines like Gourmet.<BR>CHI is far superior.<BR>Not that STL lacks good restaurants...it has many, esp Italian, where STL clearly has an edge.<BR><BR>Also, hockey players are probably not the best gauge to use for judging restaurant quality. <BR>If Mike Tyson strongly recommended a certain restaurant, would you take his word for it at face value?