Car Seats on Plane?
 

I am about to travel with my 13 month old child. I did not buy a seat for him on the airplane but if there is a chance there is an empty seat next to ours, I would like to have brought his car seat on board. I can also use this car seat in the car rental.

Do people normally bring their car seats on board? I can imagine it may be hard to stow it in an overhead compartment if there is no seat available (feels about 30-35 pounds). Its not a safety issue for me - rather, its about his and our comfort for the 3 hour flight. In addition, we won't have to use the rental companies' car seat which could be dirty.

Do people stow it first and then wait till the flight is boarded to determine where the empty seats are (this could be perceived as a nuisance to have people get up for us to get the car seat out and to goto the empty seat, secure it to a seat, and secure the baby to it - could hold up the flight)? Rather than doing this, should we ask the airline at the boarding gate if there are empty seats at sit there initially? What are the airlines' policies on this? Do they let people bring child seats on board in hopes of an empty seat?

Feedback from those who have gone through this very decision, would be much appreciated.

If you are not paying for a seat, I would not assume that there will be one available. Flights are alot fuller these days, since there are fewer flights available. If you want to use the car seat, then buy a seat for your child, if not more than likely you will be holding the child in your lap for the flight.

The overhead racks are not designed for car seats, so if you are bringing it along it will probably have to be checked. The other thing I would do is call your airline and find out what their policy is for car seats and open seats.

Excess luggage, which a car seat would be, can be "gate checked" at most airports. That would allow you to do a last minute check at the gate to see if a seat would be available - almost the same thing could be accomplished when checking in at the ticket counter.

Years ago when my kids were little people were advised to let airlines know that they were traveling with a non-paying infant. The airlines put something called an "infant hold" on an available seat and it was almost always available for kid and carseat. These days, I have rarely seen many empty seats on planes, even to obscure destinations at odd times.

I think you should really count on having your child on your lap for the trip - good luck doing that!

3 hours with a 13 month old on your lap - sounds like a nightmare for you and the people sitting next to you.

ltt is clearly childless and has chosen to be rude rather than offer advice. Perhaps someone should start a baby free airline for folks like this so they can pay a premium to avoid the annoyance of children.

I too will be traveling w/a 14mos old on Thanksgiving. I'm assuming she will be on my lap and hopefully behave. I'm going to check her car seat (along with the one for my 2year old for whom we have bought a ticket).

It is not automatically a 'nightmare' when the person next to or near you has a baby with them. That kind of insensitive comment causes a lot of resentment with us parents who travel, whether out of neccessity or for pure leisure, with our young children.

I am stationed overseas with my husband and young son. Our son was born here in the UK, and he has traveled twice to the States and back on MUCH longer flights than the 3 hours the OP talks about. With proper planning, most children will travel just fine. Yes, there are bound to be some tricky moments, no doubt. But ASSUMING that a baby is going to be a 'nightmare' when traveling is very UN-helpful, for everyone involved.

Now, soapbox out of the way.....

As far as car seats: Whether you pay for a separate seat on the plane for your child, or you just show up and hope for an empty seat beside yours, whatever car seat you take must be an AIRLINE CERTIFIED car seat. There is normally a sticker on the car seat, saying whether or not it is one of the airline-certified ones. The airlines can advise you on that, if you call them ahead of time.

I agree with the other posters that you should not assume that an empty seat will be available. Call the airline and double check that you will be able to gate-check your car seat, if you need to.

As far as the trip itself....just make sure you have all the supplies you normally need to keep your child occupied and comfortable - toys, books, snacks, juice, diapers, etc. Sounds like a no-brainer, perhaps, but what I'm saying is don't UNDER-estimate, just because it's a (relatively) short 3 hour trip. An occupied baby is a happier baby, when it comes to traveling.

Good luck and have a wonderful trip!

We purchased a second car seat for our 2 year old son for use on planes. It's a very lightweight model made by Britax. Think it called something like the StarVoyager (or some similar type name that evokes travel.) It's about 1/2 the weight of his regular seat and can be made more compact for travel.

However, your child is probably still a bit young as we use the regular shoulder restraint seatbelt when he is in the car.

I'm going to risk the wrath of other posters on this but here goes.

Please, please, please buy your infant a seat.

For no other reason than the safety of your infant.

In cases of sudden deceleration and turbulence, your child could turn into a projectile. Ever try to hold on to a bowling ball during takeoff and landing?

The reason the FAA will not recommend buying an infant a seat is because it is still safer for your child to fly on your lap than it is for your child to ride in a car strapped in a carseat.

Please buy your child a seat.

GoTravel, I agree about buying an extra seat, if you can afford it. However, I'm a little confused about your statement:

The reason the FAA will not recommend buying an infant a seat is because it is still safer for your child to fly on your lap than it is for your child to ride in a car strapped in a carseat.

Could you clarify?

And just FYI:

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/1...eut/index.html

I would be glad to clarify.

If the FAA mandates buying a seat for an infant, it may push more people to drive than to fly. It is still safer to fly than it is to drive. Hence, the FAA is hesitant to veer people toward driving because it is more dangerous than flying.

I'm not aware of any situations when a child became a projectile during flight. It seems like this would be a newsworthy story. Odd that the media hasn't covered this.

Both the Association of Flight Attendants and the DOT strongly recommend that you purchase a seat and use an FAA approved car seat. There have been incidents of turbulence where children were actually ripped from their parent's arms and injured. Try sitting in a straigh back chair about 17 inches from a wall for 3 hours with your child in your lap. Kids are used to their seat and it saves you from renting a car seat that probably hasn't been sanitized from the rental car agency. For safety and your sanity, buy the extra seat and bring your car seat.

At one point the FAA was talking about making car seats mandatory for children under 2 and abandoned the idea.

I am with GoTravel. Buy a seat for your child. It is safer. Let us not kid our selves, 3 hours with a 13 month old on your lap is no fun for you or the child. Yes, it can be done but why put yourself and those around you through it when the safest and most comfortable way for your child to travel is in a car seat.

Ok for the FAA theory, although I disagree that the FAA is viewing their recommendation as a fly/drive safety issue. But are you claiming that FAA equivalent in every country has the same motivation?

I never had an opinion about this before (I am childless) until a flight from Orlando in August of 2002. I was sitting next to a couple with a lap child and we hit one of those horrible late afternoon thunderstorms.

The poor father had a very hard time hanging on to the child because we hit some very bad turbulence. Obviously the mother was hysterical.

From the link Brimham provided;

"The FAA has long resisted calls to require airlines to offer child restraints despite a recommendation from the National Transportation Safety Board to do so. The agency promised in 1999 to propose a restraint regulation for all passengers, but there is no timetable for introducing it.

"It's economics over safety," said Jim Hall a former safety board chairman who has spoken out on transportation safety issues affecting children. "It's never made any sense."

Turbulence is the most common cause of injuries to passengers and crew but the risk of death or injury on a plane is considered small, studies show. The debate on whether restraints are necessary has centered on children under 2 years old who are permitted to sit on the lap of an adult.

Aviation regulations permit the use of auto child safety seats secured to aircraft"

One other thing. Even if there is an empty seat next to yours (real long shot these days), you still may not be able to use the carseat if the place where you are sitting is one of the rows that will not accomodate it. Be sure to tell the airline that you wish to use a carseat, so that they don't assign your seats somewhere that a carseat cannot be used.

FAA safety regs require that a carseat not impede egress in the event of an emergency evacuation. What this means in practical terms is that the carseat must be placed at the window position (or in the center seat of the center section of a widebody). Carseats cannot be placed in exit rows, of course, but also cannot be placed in the rows that are directly in front of the exit rows (because those seats are supposed to collapse forward to widen the exit row; they cannot collapse with a seat strapped in.)

Bring a trash bag to wrap up the seat in case you have to gate-check it; it can be greasy in the hold. (It will not fit in the overhead bin, ever.) The normal procedure for letting a baby have a vacant seat is that you check in at the gate and tell the agent that you are hoping to use a carseat. Most of the time, you will be told that you will be called just prior to boarding if a seat is actually available. They will not normally tell you for sure until the checkin deadline has passed, usually 15 minutes before scheduled departure time. If there is a seat, they will then give you a boarding pass for it. If not, bag it and put the gate-check tag on it, then deposit it along with your folded, tagged stroller at the end of the jetway.

I also recommend buying a seat if at all possible; holding a 13 mo old on an aircraft is usually a nightmare. They WANT to walk, but if they have to be on your lap, they want to stand, right where they have easy access to all those fascinating buttons that work the lights and ring the bells. Also, be prepared for the joy of constant tray-table folding.

From the American Academy of Pediatrics

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/108/5/1218

They are permitted to be held on the lap of an adult. Preventable injuries and deaths have occurred in children younger than 2 years who were unrestrained in aircraft during survivable crashes and conditions of turbulence. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends a mandatory federal requirement for restraint use for children on aircraft. The Academy further recommends that parents ensure that a seat is available for all children during aircraft transport and follow current recommendations for restraint use for all children.

Weighing in here on the FAA thing. If you go out to FAA hearing documentation and read up on the discussions, you'll find that the FAA really does cling to the argument that people would drive instead of fly if carseats were required for babies. It *is* an economic argument in the end, a question of whether requiring the expense is reasonable in the face of the probable risk of injury. Apparently, the FAA has been convinced that it isn't. Recently, however, they have made it a rule that if a child under 2 does have a separate purchased seat, then the child must be in a carseat in that seat. It's some progress, anyway.

As far as I can determine (and I've researched it rather a lot, as I travel abroad often, and always prefer to use a carseat for my child) the US is the only country that requires airlines to allow personal carseats to be used aboard aircraft. In most other countries, the airlines are permitted to say whether or not they will allow them, and most of them have chosen not to allow carseats. British Airways, for instance, does not. They have their own child seats that can be used aboard the aircraft on trans-oceanic flights only, but there are a limited number of them, and if there are no more available, the child must do without. They do not offer the seats on short-haul flights, nor will they allow them for a child over 3 yrs. old, regardless of size.

There is absolutly no intl. consistency with regard to regulating the safety of children on aircraft. Contradictions abound. An example: the FAA has banned the use of belly-belts on US carriers, but they are normally required for lap babies by carriers based in other countries. The FAA says that the child would be crushed in the event of a crash, the other countries say that the belt prevents the child from going airborne in the event of turbulence.

Interestingly enough, unlike in most other countries, the US has no regulation that says that a child (aged 2-12) must be seated next to an accompanying adult on an aircraft. This oversight often results in a parent spending almost the entire flight standing in an aisle trying to supervise and guard a 5-yo who is seated between 2 total strangers.

It amazes me that people wouldn't give up a seat so a child could sit with the parent. Does this really happen?

Be sure to book a window seat if you want to use the car seat. I was always required to put the car seat in the window seat so that it did not block the aisle.

I always purchased a ticket for my children and took their car seat with us on the plane. This gave us more control during the flight and we had what we knew to be a reliable car seat for the rental car. How will you transport your child when you arrive at your destination? Car rental agencies will rent you a car seat but you wont know much about it. Anytime you are even in a fender bender you should discard the car seat and get a new one because the hairline fractures possibly suffered in a car accident can affect the safety of the car seat.

It is possible to check the car seat at the end of the jetway if you find you will not have a seat for your child. They will stow it for you and return it to you at the door when you leave the plane. They do this with strollers too. Whenever we did this the airline staff was incredibly helpful and friendly. One time the pilot saw us and retrieved the stroller for us.

The post asked for advice about bringing a car seat on a plane. Those of you who are being critical and implying harm may come from not purchasing a ticket for a 13mos old are very insensitive and out of line since this was not the question. One of the articles quoted mentions
"restraints" - a mother's arms are indeed restraints. Have I ever tried holding a child in a straight back chair for hours? Why yes, I not only hold my child for hours but carry her around all day. I also carried her inside for 9 months. Unless a tornado enters our plane, I really can't imagine her being "ripped from my arms." Oh, and I don't think I'd have any trouble holding on to a bowling ball either. Get off your high horse - especially those of you without kids!

A parents arms are not a restraint. That's why you are advised not to hold a child in a car. The natural reaction in an emergency is to attempt to brace yourself, which you cannot do with a child in your arms. Therefore, either the parent is hurt or a child can be hurt when the parent lets go. How much more information do you need to be convinced of this?

I have yet to see any convincing information. Oh, and by the way, Mike, we're talking about airplanes, not cars. I don't know what sort of emergency one might encounter on a plane in which a car seat is going to be of any further benefit than my arms. If anything, I can sheild and protect my child better in my arms than I can if she is sitting in the seat next to me. I can also get her out of harms way more quickly if she is in my arms.

The airplane hits turbulence, which jolts your forward. You put your hands out to protect yourself and the child falls onto the floor. Or, you are lunged forward and you are able to hold the child. Of course, while hold the child, you force your weight against the child and crush them against the seat in front of you.

In contrast, a child who is restrained in a car seat properly is not going to be tossed around or crushed against the seat in front of them because the restraints are strong enough.

Snowrooster, I agree that it isn't nice to condemn others for choices that are not necessarily the ones you yourself might make, but you're wrong about the tornado thing.

Let me ask you to picture yourself holding a baby on a roller coaster, with no add'l belt or bar to help restrain the child. Could you hang on? Would you ever want to be put to that test? Sitting in a straight-backed chair on solid ground isn't analogous from a safety perspective. A plane can move in 3 directions, and one of them is vertical. At full cruising speed, if the engines suddenly cut out, the plane will drop like a cannonball, still moving forward at around 100 mph, but also falling at the speed of gravity. It is just like a roller coaster, but faster. Under those circumstances, g-forces will pull the baby upward, not forward. Unless you happen to be sitting with your arms straight down and locked down on either side of the child's neck, that child is going to slip your grip and go airborne.

A lightning strike can cause a momentary power loss, just long enough for the engines to hiccough a couple of times. In those few seconds, the plane can easily drop 200-300 feet. Turbulence usually doesn't cause drops as bad as with a power loss, but you're still riding a coaster to some extent. They require restraints on coasters for a reason.

Just a couple of weeks ago, an AA flight from Tulsa to St. Louis cleared a cloud bank and discovered 4 F-15's right in front of it. The pilot had no choice but to dive about 100 ft. immediately. One of the passengers described himself as suddenly being "on the roof of the airplane." http://www.kolr10.com/Global/story.a...p;nav=0RXJI32x

Fly your baby as a lap child if you want to, it is your right to make that choice under current law. However, you should not delude yourself that people who advise against doing so are lying about the dangers of turbulence; they are not.

Snowrooster, if that were true, (that your arms are a restraint), then why have a car seat at all. At 60 mph, a child cannot effectively be restrained by a parent. At 600 mph,does it get any better? Planes can loose altitude quickly in turbulance, be tossed around, etc. It isn't about convenience, its about restraint. Why do you think you wear a seatbelt on the plane?

Since I did provide an answer to the original psoter I"d just like to respond to snowrooster. There may be no warning for turbulance and the grip you have on the baby may not be firm enough at the time it hits. Most advice from experts is that children should have their own seats. http://www.babycenter.com/expert/bab...avel/7297.html
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/airplanetravel.aspx
http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,5998,00.html
http://saferidenews.com/html/Airplane_Eng.html
andon and on......

Why would I put my hands out to protect myself? Is there an object flying towards me (if there are flying objects I'd rather have my child in my arms!)? That makes no sense at all. Given that I will be wearing a seat belt, I'm not really sure how I'd find myself on the roof of the plane. If we hit turbulence, clearly my arms will be around my child - I could even buckle my seat belt over her lap as well.

Oh, dear Dawn - perhaps you should reread - again, we're talking about AIRPLANES. A car is totally different than an airplane - I'll hold off on pointing out the clear differences as I imagine they are obvious to most people. How about on a boat - do I need a car seat on a boat? What kind of boat? Is it okay not to have a car seat on a cruise ship but required on a speed boat. Who are you to judge? If you feel so strongly about this I suggest you invest your time in lobbying for change and required seats for all children on airplanes. Otherwise, give it a rest.

Geez snowrooster, lose the chip on your shoulder. I did not imply that parents' don't hold their kids on their laps for extended period of time. I used the example of a straight back chair 17" from the wall because that's about all the room you get and comfort from an airplane seat. This example by the way was given to me by a friend of mine who happens to be a flight attendant and a mother. It is very hard to sit in a chair for that long with a child on your lap being that cramped. Heck, I am miserable back in coach. Add a squirming 13 month old on my cramped lap for 3 hours and that is really uncomfortable. And kids are used to being in their car seats. Most kids will be quieter in their car seats than being held on a lap.

As for offering opinions, that is what this board is about.

BTW-I am also a Mother and I travel with my kid extensively since they were a couple of months old.

Snowrooster-You are not allowed to use your own lap belt to secure a child to you. Tje American Association of Pediatrics also recommends car seats.
http://www.aap.org/advocacy/archives/novair.htm, as does the National Safety Institute, and The White House Panel on Aviation Security. Guess they are all wrong huh? :-@

Hey snowrooster, ever been riding in someones car holding a drink and the driver slams on the breaks?

Bingo!

Sorry, I don't mean to pile on, snowrooster, but this is important. I haven't followed this discussion and don't know what's been said, but just read your post and mention of buckling your seatbelt over your child's lap while she sits in yours. Should this opportunity ever arise in a plane, car, or wherever, that's the <i>last</i> thing you want to do. If you are thrown forward in the belt, as momentum will do, all your weight will press against your child, pushing her delicate abdominal/hip area against the resttaint even harder! Auto fatalities have resulted from just such an error.

Quote: &quot;Given that I will be wearing a seat belt, I'm not really sure how I'd find myself on the roof of the plane.&quot;

That's the answer exactly: YOU wouldn't be, but your unrestrained child would be. And no, there is no way in H**L that you would be able to get a quick enough grip over the top of your child's shoulders to prevent it. You might be able to get your grip again as the child's hips slid through your hands, but in most planes, it would be too late at that point: jr's head would have already slammed into the bottom of the overhead bin. You couldn't lean over the child to stop it, either; the g-force would pull your head and shoulders back up.

Your response just proved my point.

Why do you think that the &quot;brace&quot; position for crash preparedness is to put lap babies on the floor at your feet? It is not to protect the child. Horrible as this is, the reason is so that no other adult passenger will be hit and hurt by 20 or so lbs. of flying baby.

These things have been tested using dolls; the effects of the g-forces are crushingly powerful and all too real. Real children have been hurt and killed under these circumstances. It does not happen often, true, but it DOES happen. We are not making this up.

Snowrooster, please just stop--what you don't about physics would fill a library, and now you're the one on a high horse. Ryan tried to explain it to you: g-forces inside a plummeting aircraft would make it impossible to hang on to a baby, in part because the baby would be propelled UP, and in part because that 30 lb baby would exert the pressure (on your arms) of a 150 lb baby--again, due to g forces. You can't argue with this, because although my explanation sort of sucks, the facts are the facts. My bottom line is, I'd never fly without a restraint for a baby, mine or anyone else's.
mxylplik2, I'd like to note that if you have to gate check your car seat, the airline will usually provide their own big plastic bag, I assume b/c they want it to be see-through.

Snowrooster, Of course you can hold your child tightly in your arms as the plane flies at 600 mph and perhaps hits turbulance and drops 200 ft within seconds. Silly me!

I totally agree you should pay for the seat and bring the carseat. If you can't do that, gate check the carseat, never check it with your baggage, because the abuse it may be subject to in the cargo hold could render it unsafe to use. Also, British Airways WILL let you bring an AA approved carseat onboard. I've done it, and their flight attendants also are ruthless about making sure you got it in tight enough.

I think you are all incredibly insensitive. My parents bought tickets for our family to travel via plane for Thanksgiving. My mom told me she bought a ticket for my son but my daughter didn't need one, she could sit on my lap (the flight is @ 2 hours). Why would I question this? Then I read this post from a woman who is to be in the same situation and see negative comments about her not paying for a seat for her child - even though the airlines say there is no need. I was offened. To criticize the decision of a mother when it comes to the safety of her child?

Remember, the original poster had already decided not to buy a seat and this was not her question.

I was thinking pehaps I'll put my daughter in her Baby Bjorn for a little added restraint on my lap, so perhaps something good did come of this all.

Snow, I don't know how pointing out a wealth of substantial evidence confirming safety concerns is insensitive. Lots of people read these posts and therefore it is important to provide information for travellers and therefore it is responsible to point out safety concerns.

As your comments illustrate, a lot of people are unaware of the safety concerns and risks and therefore it is important to point them out. Ultimately, the original poster and you are free to not use a child seat and probably nothing bad will happen. But it is important to point at the risks and let people who are uninformed that they may be taking unnecessary risks.